Free State Wyoming Forum
Free State Wyoming (FSW) Promotional => Making the Case for Moving Toward Freedom (and Wyoming!) => Topic started by: bluewaterMI on May 06, 2011, 08:04:28 PM
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What is the benefits of it that are not in other parts of the country?
What are taxes on land?
Also why would you want to move so close to that volcano called yellowstone national Park? I hear it's going to blow one day soon
Do any of you guys have off the grid houses?
Do any of you guys have self sustainable house called earthships? I know there is one built in Wyoming I saw the build on youtube.
Wyoming is big I am sure you guys are spread out what is your plan if something happens and you have no forum to connect on?
just a few starting questions
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All the answers to your questions lie in numerous threads that don't need rehashing - so poke around a little...hope you find what you're looking for...
Welcome to the forum! ;D
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So I searched a bit saw nothing on earthships, off the grid, or even the world's largest volcano sitting at Yellowstone national park.
Thanks for the welcome
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What is the benefits of it that are not in other parts of the country?
Beautiful territory, good people, 0 income taxes, low population, adjacent to Montana, Idaho and the Dakotas.
What are taxes on land?
low in my favorite counties.
Also why would you want to move so close to that volcano called yellowstone national Park? I hear it's going to blow one day soon
Such would take out much of North America. Shall we all sit on our thumbs in nervous anticipation?
Do any of you guys have off the grid houses?
I've seen many in the Bighorns. Not sure about those on the forum.
Do any of you guys have self sustainable house called earthships? I know there is one built in Wyoming I saw the build on youtube.
I'd have to look that up and check out the youtube you're referring to.
Wyoming is big I am sure you guys are spread out what is your plan if something happens and you have no forum to connect on?
The forum is to assist in contemplating or making the move. Good neighbors usually find ways to communicate, I suppose.
just a few starting questions
Cool.
Terence
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So I searched a bit saw nothing on earthships, off the grid, or even the world's largest volcano sitting at Yellowstone national park.
I got five links from a search of "earthship". Nobody seems to be building one, but there was some light discussion.
A search on "grid" gave me six pages of results. I don't recall anyone here being completely off the grid, but there has been some discussion. Here are a couple threads from the first two pages (of six) that touch on the subject:
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=8104.msg67586#msg67586 (http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=8104.msg67586#msg67586)
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=6682.msg51951#msg51951 (http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=6682.msg51951#msg51951)
We did discuss the "supervolcano" ad nauseum. If you choose to believe the media crap about an imminent eruption, then you better move out of North America, because the whole continent will be toast. Here are a couple threads on this:
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=9792.msg88344#msg88344 (http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=9792.msg88344#msg88344)
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=6451.msg49716#msg49716 (http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=6451.msg49716#msg49716)
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Reasons to consider living in Wyoming.
http://www.freestateproject.com/StateComparisons_25mar03.htm [ Link is no longer active ]
The article is quite long and contains a lot of analysis. I have copied the summary for Wyoming below. Although the analysis was done in 2003 for the Free State Project, it is still applicable and I thought you might find it addresses your original question. *I* certainly enjoyed re-reading it.
I added a few additional comment since 2003. They are within [ square brackets ].
Dennis
Wyoming
Has the lowest total and voting-age populations in the country (again, giving us maximum saturation of activists among the inhabitants)
Has the initiative and referendum
Has term limits (which go into effect in 2004)
Has no individual income tax or business tax at all
Has some of the lowest property taxes in the country [+ most counties have NO zoning &/or building codes ]
2nd lowest gas tax of our candidate states (0.13 - only Alaska is lower with 0.8 )
Has the lowest federal dependence of all the western states (4th out of all 10 states)
Has the 3rd lowest number of government employees (behind North Dakota and Vermont)
Has the 3rd smallest House districts of all ten states (no more than 8,230 people), and the 2nd lowest Senate districts (no more than 16,500 people)
Has the 3rd lowest campaign expenditures of all ten states (after North Dakota and Vermont) - Idaho is 5th, New Hampshire is 10th
Ranks 1st in high votes for conservative and libertarian presidential candidates (Idaho is 2nd, New Hampshire is 7th)
Leads all western states (except for Alaska) in highest per capita income (ranks 5th of all 10 states) New Hampshire is 2nd, Idaho is 6th of all ten
Ranks 1st for lack of state-wide land-use planning (Idaho is 6th, New Hampshire is 7th)
Ties for 3rd with Idaho for favorable gun laws (New Hampshire is 2nd)
Ranks 1st for gun ownership rates and gun shows (88% est. gun-ownership rate - Idaho had an est. 76% and New Hampshire had an estimated 36%) (Wyoming had 50 gun shows in 2000 - Idaho had 49, New Hampshire had 17)
2nd lowest number of unionized laborers - 20,000 (North Dakota is 1st with 19,000 - Idaho has 42,000 to New Hampshire's 60,000)
Ranks 1st for low numbers of unionized teachers (5,713 to Idaho's 11,132 and New Hampshire's 11,834)
Ranks 3rd for "low level of city urbanization" on the state data page (1st of all western states) - New Hampshire is 8th, Idaho is 9th
Ranks 2nd under "livability" on the state data page (New Hampshire is 1st, Idaho is 8th)
Ranks 2nd for lowest number of native-born inhabitants (42.5%) - New Hampshire is 3rd, Idaho is 4th
Ranks 2nd under "economic freedom" (Idaho is 1st, New Hampshire is 4th)
Ranks 4th in "more private and locally owned land" (Idaho is 5th, New Hampshire is 9th)
Has no state budget deficit - has a $1.8 billion surplus (very unlikely there will be any call for new taxes here, in fact, Wyoming is considering lowering its 4% sales tax)
Has a large royalty income from mining activities (the source of its $1.8 billion surplus), which helps fund education and various aspects of government, giving the FSP an opportunity to lower or eliminate other types of taxes (it also shows fiscal prudence on the part of Wyoming - this fund has existed and grown steadily since 1974)
Borders several other FSP candidate states where this movement could spread (Idaho, Montana, and South Dakota)
[New Hampshire is completely surrounded by "liberal" states and all of the New England states together have less land mass and much, much more population than Wyoming.]
Wyoming's population is concentrated in several pockets throughout the state (such as Cheyenne and Casper), but the population in these areas is not as high as that in other larger areas like Boise City or Anchorage, or the Wilmington and Boston MSA's. This means that more of our activists will be voting and otherwise supporting one another in the same elections, enhancing their group strength without spreading it too thin or presenting it with too large and powerful of a target. Our combined numbers would thus be more manifest on the town, county, and state levels here.
Wyoming is also closer to large population centers than any other western candidate state. Denver is within 90 minutes of Cheyenne, the state capitol, and Boulder is even closer. Fort Collins, Colorado is only 45 minutes from Cheyenne. Salt Lake City is one and a half hours from Wyoming (Park City, Utah, part of the Salt Lake MSA, is only one hour and 10 minutes from Wyoming). So Wyoming, while it does not have many inhabitants or "big city" amenities itself, is closer to both than any other western candidate. The Denver area is also growing and expanding toward Wyoming, and we will be close enough to reap the benefits of that economic progress; however, we will also have the state line between ourselves and Colorado - keeping that state's more statist politics at bay. And despite this growth trend, the immigration rate into Wyoming is yet low enough that it is not affecting Wyoming politics and infrastructure to any great degree.
Additionally, we have a chance to help Wyoming diversify its economy, something that it needs and wants to do. By moving in people and jobs from all over the country, we can help diversify the state economy and raise the standard of living to a degree that would be impossible for us to duplicate in Idaho or New Hampshire where the economies are more robust and the people more affluent. Not only would this be a very positive thing for the people of Wyoming, but it would also be an opportunity for us to diminish our "outsider" image and prove that we are coming to contribute to Wyoming, not just "using" it.
In terms of more "livability" elements, Wyoming's climate and terrain are greatly varied (it has the third warmest winters of our ten candidate states), a fact that would make it easier for FSPer's to find someplace to live that is more in line with their expectations and desires. States like New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, Alaska, and North Dakota are well-known for their harsh winter conditions. New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine are definitely located well within the snow-belt as well (for those of you who don't enjoy shoveling the stuff). Parts of Wyoming can have harsh wintertime conditions as well, but there are also other areas with milder conditions, a choice that we won't have to the same degree with small states like VT and NH. And again, there are also urban areas and open countryside, making it possible for a larger number of FSPer's to find more acceptable and desirable places to live than states where most of the population is concentrated in one certain part of the state.
Wyoming - the Best State for Liberty?
All of these elements working together, and combined with the fact that Wyoming allows the FSP a chance at the maximum possible saturation of activists to residents, places Wyoming head-and-shoulders above the other nine candidate states. Nowhere else do we have this number of benefits and liberty-friendly elements along with so low of a burden for each FSP activist. Nowhere else could we have so great an impact so very quickly - simply by being there and voting. And nowhere else will our natural opposition be as weak (the NEA, and other unions and special interests - both in sheer numbers and political machinery). Wyoming is also located farther away from the statist media and political elements (including special interest groups) that could damage us so badly if we were located closer to statist enclaves like Boston and New York.
Again, consider the notion that the FSP could fall short of 20,000 participants; or even if it gets all 20,000 that they might not be as activist as necessary for one of the larger states. Even 20,000 libertarians who confined their activism to voting could make an impact of some sort in any of these states, or gather together and hold influence over a few towns or counties, but could they achieve a free state? And when you consider that 8,000 to 10,000 in Wyoming could accomplish as much if not more than 20,000 in Idaho or New Hampshire, consider what 20,000 in Wyoming could do!
As has been pointed out in our discussions already, a few libertarians forming a township or gaining a majority influence in a county might be able to enact a number of reforms; however, the extent of what they could accomplish could be severely curtailed by the state government. States simply have much more political power than town and county governments. They also have representation in the United States Congress. Thus, if it is at all possible, we should try our best to go somewhere that would allow us a greater voice in the state government.
Wyoming presents us with a very real chance at achieving a majority representation in a state legislature and thus a very real chance at "liberty in our lifetime." Overall, it makes us less reliant upon the various unknown elements that we face in other states such as: "will we have enough?" or "will they really move?" or "will they do the work that's necessary to succeed?" Any of these elements could be fatal to our efforts in the higher population states. In Wyoming, they hurt us the least because our numbers count for so much more even before anything else is considered.
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Thank you for considering this perspective on what may be the most important decision that we ever make.
In particular, my thanks go out to Joe Swyers, Keith Carlsen, and Paul Bonneau for the time and effort they have expended in gathering and posting much of this data.
See the thread on the FSP forum for a compilation of various threads relating to the state decision.
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Open door policy with our elected officials. You can call, email, facebook chat, lobby, or face to face visit everyone from the city all the way to the Governor.
When I worked for the EMA in Georgia writing policy, I had a hard time even talking to County level officials much less the governor's staff. Bi-annual legislation so we can keep up with what bills are being proposed without having to worry about someone sneaking something in while we are on vacation.
Appeals in court go straight to the Supreme Court not some mid level court of appeals. (not sure if that's a good thing or not).
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Open door policy with our elected officials. You can call, email, facebook chat, lobby, or face to face visit everyone from the city all the way to the Governor.
When I worked for the EMA in Georgia writing policy, I had a hard time even talking to County level officials much less the governor's staff. Bi-annual legislation so we can keep up with what bills are being proposed without having to worry about someone sneaking something in while we are on vacation.
Appeals in court go straight to the Supreme Court not some mid level court of appeals. (not sure if that's a good thing or not).
I used to run into Gov Dave at Wallmart from time to time in Cheyenne. Even thou I mostly gave him a hard time he never seemed to go out of hiw way to ignore me when he saw me. I gotta give him a lot of credit for that. .
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As for gun laws: Starting July 1st: concealed carry without a permit is legal for non-prohibited folks.
As for ease of access to gub'mint officials: When I want to talk to my district's state rep, we just go shooting together and have lunch and chat.
As for writing letters to them, in California I always got a form letter back. Here the state reps and even federal senators e-mail me back within days (or even hours) with a polite, personal note telling me why my libertarian ideas cannot be implemented, and give their reasons, usually some variation of "think of the children" and "we know better than you."
MWD
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I'm guessing this is the typical thread where some newbie posts 100 questions on his first post after stumbling across our forum and then never returns or adds anything meaningful after others have taken the time to answer the questions in a thoughtful way.
Prove me wrong.
Mac
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I'm guessing this is the typical thread where some newbie posts 100 questions on his first post after stumbling across our forum and then never returns or adds anything meaningful after others have taken the time to answer the questions in a thoughtful way.
Mac
And then gets mad if we point that out.
Prove me wrong.
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I'm guessing this is the typical thread where some newbie posts 100 questions on his first post after stumbling across our forum and then never returns or adds anything meaningful after others have taken the time to answer the questions in a thoughtful way.
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?action=profile;u=4351 (http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?action=profile;u=4351)
Summary - bluewaterMI
Name: bluewaterMI
Posts: 2 (0.667 per day)
Position: Newbie
Date Registered: May 05, 2011, 09:13:34 PM
Last Active: May 06, 2011, 09:16:09 PM
Maybe he's just pining for the fjords.
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read it
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I have been looking at this free land offer for moving to the west.
States like Nebraska, Wyoming, and many others offer free land for me to move in since I have two kids under 5
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I heard that Chugwater has free land..
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read it
That is not much of a reply. Do you mean it in the past tense or the present imperative? You see, two words do not provide a lot of communication here.
There are the two obvious choices I just mentioned, and some implied messages. One is that you returned and read the replies to your thread. Another is that you decided to post a cryptic reply -- for reasons maybe only you understand. Maybe your message is a challenge, a puzzle that we might contemplate and perhaps a few may discern the correct solution. (But why should we bother? Think about that.)
I have been looking at this free land offer for moving to the west. States like Nebraska, Wyoming, and many others offer free land for me to move in since I have two kids under 5
If you are JUST looking for free land, please leave now. NOW! That is not what we are about.
If you are really freedom oriented, then please state your case. If you are genuine, this will be easy.
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mmm in the last election I voted for a Libertarian for Governor here in Michigan
I have run as a state Representative and for a trustee position opposing the two major parties
I want to be off the grid to be free from all the laws so an earthship seems dead on.
I like the idea of an area controlled by an independent Party and having enough folks to win that election.
I seem to be excited that Ron Paul is running for President in 2012. However in 2008 I did not know enough and am a new convert I suppose
What other questions do you guys have if I am allowed here?
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I also like silver now (and am a new convert to that since the dollar is falling)
What kind of healthcare does the state of wyoming offer it's citizens if they where just moving in? (you know until you can get your own and find a job)
Does anybody know how much free land it is? or would it be better to buy a few acres?
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I have run as a state Representative and for a trustee position opposing the two major parties
I want to be off the grid to be free from all the laws so an earthship seems dead on.
I like the idea of an area controlled by an independent Party and having enough folks to win that election.
That is a good start, I suppose. :)
What kind of healthcare does the state of wyoming offer it's citizens if they where just moving in? (you know until you can get your own and find a job) Does anybody know how much free land it is? or would it be better to buy a few acres?
And you have to spoil your good start with this crap. Sigh.
Please search and read the forum archives, and if you feel that you belong here, keep posting so that we can get to know you. I highly suggest that you tell what quotes from Ayn Rand or Harry Browne you find insightful. Or Ron Paul. Or whoever floats your boat.
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What kind of healthcare does the state of wyoming offer it's citizens if they where just moving in? (you know until you can get your own and find a job)
I think anyone asking for free health care does not "get" what we're about.
And the answer is "less than almost any other state."
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The "Free" in "Free State Wyoming" refers to being politically free, as in
1. The condition of being free from control or restrictions.
2. The condition of being free from imprisonment, slavery or forced labour.
3. The condition of being free to act, believe or express oneself as one chooses.
4. Freedom from excess government control.
It does NOT refer to being financially free or free of personal responsibility, as in
1. Free food.
2. Free beer.
3. Free housing (and health care).
4. Free TV, movies and entertainment--all provided by "someone" else, of course, invariably a productive taxpayer.
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What kind of healthcare does the state of wyoming offer it's citizens if they where just moving in? (you know until you can get your own and find a job)
Does anybody know how much free land it is? or would it be better to buy a few acres?
Wow, I just cant help but say, "You sir need to wash your mouth out....with a shotgun." Maybe your screwin with us, I certainly hope so. If not then I can offer you this advice. Do not move here, do not look in my direction, do not associate with my state in any way, your ilk ruined other states of former glory. I sincerely hope this all just a very funny joke that is meant to ensure like minded individuals are present. ???
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What kind of healthcare does the state of wyoming offer it's citizens if they where just moving in? (you know until you can get your own and find a job)
Does anybody know how much free land it is? or would it be better to buy a few acres?
Wow, I just cant help but say, "You sir need to wash your mouth out....with a shotgun." Maybe your screwin with us, I certainly hope so. If not then I can offer you this advice. Do not move here, do not look in my direction, do not associate with my state in any way, your ilk ruined other states of former glory. I sincerely hope this all just a very funny joke that is meant to ensure like minded individuals are present. ???
:D
Well, there IS a lot of "free" land. Mainly in places you dont want to live like Chugwater. It takes a very special type of person to live in some of these places. There are of course conditions like you have to stay for a certain amount of time and in some cases bring a business.
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Free Land and Free healthcare? Wow you don't want much do you? If you are for real you should know there isn't anything like that here. So did you have insurance when you had kids or did the the state pay for them?
I moved here labor day weekend 1993, with a new baby, wife and 1966 motorhome, and $300. I worked two full time jobs to make enough for a security deposit on an apartment before we froze. It's been a long road since then but I never forgot how hard I had to work to get where I sit today.
My point is that all of us had to work for it. NEVER would I have thought to ask for a hand out. If hand outs are what you think the dream is about then you need to stay where you are. If you are looking for a place to live try asking the question a different way. Try something like "Is there anyone know of a job that offers housing as part of the package". Maybe something like a cook at a lodge or a hand at one of the ranches. Just don't start off with "somebody needs to do something for me" since nothing pisses us off worse than a free loader.
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read it
Well, at least he's reading.
Mac
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While I am now retired, I am making my way out to WY --- and NOT for any "free" handouts like free land or healthcare. While I may not actively be "employed", I WILL offer my labor to my neighbors and community FREE. Maybe I wil get involvoled with the local first aid/fire department or the local animal shelter. I will also be there for any FSW person or my neighbors who need an extra set of hands. In turn, all I expect in return is to help me learn new skills (like hunting, fishing, marksmanship, homesteading crafts) that will help me to be be more self-sufficient, and not to be a burden to anyone. No free rides.
I agree with some of those who commented here that if you are looking for a "free ride", then just do us all a favor and stay where you are.
I am coming (first-time) to the JAM in June with my wife to check things out, and I suspect that the FSW folks will also be checking ME out more so than I am of them. Maybe you should consider doing the same. In the meantime, do your own homework about the benefits of living in WY.
Wyoming has a harsh climate. I could move to TN, NE, GA or anywhere else where I could grow food easier. But I choose LIBERTY & FREEDOM above all. Without being able to exercise that, it is not worth living -- anywhere!
It is my wife and my decision to live - or die - with like minded FSW folks in WY.
FDNYLiberty
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mmm I am not on state healthcare and me and my wife nor kids have never been on it.
I have insurance with my current job.
But when you move somewhere I assume you may have to be on for the children 90-120 days until your new employers insurance kicks in
that is what your taxes help pay for
(not for a free ride mentality)
Free Land is not free it appears that there is a cost to it. Follow the rules to be able to get it
I am not to familir with rand but Ron Paul is making alot of sense to me
I don't like too quote other people. I like to think for myself
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mmm I am not on state healthcare and me and my wife nor kids have never been on it.
I have insurance with my current job.
Fine.
But when you move somewhere I assume you may have to be on for the children 90-120 days until your new employers insurance kicks in
That's the problem you ASSUME things that don't and should not exist... That is not a freedom mindset.
that is what your taxes help pay for
(not for a free ride mentality)
EXCUSE ME? What! 1st, Exactly What Taxes are you referring to?? The state Sales tax? The Vehicular lic tax? The Property Tax?
Exactly What 'Tax' is supposed to pay for your children's health care just cause you decided to move here?
Free Land is not free it appears that there is a cost to it. Follow the rules to be able to get it
If you buy land you're not beholden to those 'rules'
Semper Fi.
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Well then, we seem to be on a rant for no reason then. Medicaid in Wyoming doesn't cover much except for pregnancy related care and that's to assure healthy babies. If you have a job then you would be expected to pay for Cobra on your prior insurance. Your children might qualify for Kidcare it's subsided from the state. http://www.health.wyo.gov/healthcarefin/chip/index.html
And the quote about that's what our taxes pay for. It makes us a little buggy that you assume we have a tax that will pay for X. The reason we live here is because we refuse to support a tax that will pay for X much less Y and Z taxes. Most elected officials are elected on the platform of no new taxes.
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In the state of Michigan we pay alot of taxes.
to name a few sales tax property Tax, state income Tax etc etc etc, and employers pay alot of taxes too. This is to help us out.
If we get laid off we get state unemployment checks. Also if you don't make enough money the state gives aid for the children or those adults who have hit hard times (There is alot of folks who have hit hard times here)
There is folks who also abuse the system and that's just downright wrong however it also helps support those who cannot support themselves with extra services needed. (such as the blind, deaf and other citizens such as this)
Many folks don't know what freedom is. They still are slaves still to the system. We must use and leverage the system within the laws and use options and benefits that can set us not only more free from government control but also economic freedom and leverage states and cities to do that. Because in the long run it will benefit the states and cities.
Today my employer was so happy with me I got a FREE gift card for my lunch and at the end of the week i will get a FREE dress shirt ;D
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In the state of Michigan we pay alot of taxes. to name a few sales tax property Tax, state income Tax etc etc etc, and employers pay alot of taxes too.
Yes. That sucks.
This is to help us out.
Wrong answer. No. The taxes are to steal your life. The "help" is just a crappy excuse.
If we get laid off we get state unemployment checks. Also if you don't make enough money the state gives aid for the children or those adults who have hit hard times (There is alot of folks who have hit hard times here)
People should save for a rainy day. People who choose not to save and live within their means deserve a harsh spanking. People who are too stupid to refute socialism deserve the consequences.
Today my employer was so happy with me I got a FREE gift card for my lunch and at the end of the week i will get a FREE dress shirt ;D
Yay! More free stuff! Good for you! Free stuff is great!
Until you can get over your "free stuff" mental disease, I ask that you stop posting here. That is not a demand, just a request.
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Today my employer was so happy with me I got a FREE gift card for my lunch and at the end of the week i will get a FREE dress shirt ;D
Yay! More free stuff! Good for you! Free stuff is great!
Until you can get over your "free stuff" mental disease, I ask that you stop posting here. That is not a demand, just a request.
[/quote]
my mental disease ha. When is the last time an employer gave away something for free? I must of done something to earn it huh? just some nice stuff I don't have to pay taxes on or perhaps a FREE bonus for doing a better job than everybody else that they can see results on.
The reason why your movement will never be a success is because you CHASE off anybody who might think a little different than you say something different, or even a different viewpoints. Instead of asking what and why there viewpoint is what it is and ask them to please back it up. Perhaps there education level, mindset or thinking is beyond your comprehension. You guys inspired me to right a book today.
reposted "Many folks don't know what freedom is. They still are slaves still to the system. We must use and leverage the system within the laws and use options and benefits that can set us not only more free from government control but also economic freedom and leverage states and cities to do that. Because in the long run it will benefit the states and cities."
mmm I thought for sure someone would ask me what I meant by that instead.
Off to work on my book thanks folks for the idea
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Instead of asking what and why there their viewpoint is what it is and ask them to please back it up. Perhaps there their education level, mindset or thinking is beyond your comprehension. You guys inspired me to right write a book today.
You are the uneducated one.
Goodbye.
If you become smarter in the future, please feel free to try again.
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Yuck yuck yuck typing to fast and not proof reading what I wrote.
looking for an ignore button for you
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my mental disease ha. When is the last time an employer gave away something for free? I must of done something to earn it huh? just some nice stuff I don't have to pay taxes on or perhaps a FREE bonus for doing a better job than everybody else that they can see results on.
The reason why your movement will never be a success is because you CHASE off anybody who might think a little different than you say something different, or even a different viewpoints. Instead of asking what and why there viewpoint is what it is and ask them to please back it up. Perhaps there education level, mindset or thinking is beyond your comprehension. You guys inspired me to right a book today.
reposted "Many folks don't know what freedom is. They still are slaves still to the system. We must use and leverage the system within the laws and use options and benefits that can set us not only more free from government control but also economic freedom and leverage states and cities to do that. Because in the long run it will benefit the states and cities."
mmm I thought for sure someone would ask me what I meant by that instead.
Off to work on my book thanks folks for the idea
I do not agree with you that people here are "Chasing" you off, however I will to say that you came off on the wrong foot with the (questions) you were asking, and the negative impression that these questions gave.
Your statement about yourself (compared to the folks on this forum) and I qoute, "Perhaps there education level, mindset or thinking is beyond your comprehension" , speaks volumes about you.
I would argue that there are many folks here on this forum with graduate levels of higher education in a variety of areas. Be that as it may, as far as "thinking" is concerned, I've been impressed by what I have read from many of those on this forum whom you may consider less intelligent or of a different mindset than you. I do not believe that anyone here has any problem comprehending what you say.
Everyone on this forum can "agree to disagree." That is what progresses the (as you say) "movement" of freedom of ideas and opinions on this forum. Nobody is going to agree with everyone all of the time. So you should not expect it either.
No one on this forum, including myself, expects (or wants) any free handouts, however I believe it safe to say that there will be many "free helping hands" available from these good folks if I ever needed some help. Maybe if you did some more thorough perusing around and reading of the variety of forum topics, and gave some time to get to know folks and them you, you may have not drawn such a fast (and wrong) conclusion.
A proper "introduction" of yourself would have been a good start. There is a specific forum topic just for this purpose. First impressions are lasting.
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The reason why your movement will never be a success...
Free State Wyoming has only one goal: to move liberty-minded people to Wyoming. It has done that, so it is already a success. We're more about quality than quantity.
If you measure "success" as "sheer numbers" or even as "political action", you'd probably be happier with Free State Project, which is in New Hampshire.
You guys inspired me to right a book today......Off to work on my book thanks folks for the idea
Sounds like you're "writing at us." ......"I'll show you! I'll write a book!"
Also, one does not "right" a book. One "writes" a book. I can't wait to see a book written by someone who cannot construct a proper sentence.
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bluewaterMI, I'll offer to edit your book. Would likely be quite an educational experience for both of us. :) PM if you want my fee schedule.
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The reason why your movement will never be a success is because you CHASE off anybody who might think a little different than you say something different, or even a different viewpoints.
Nobody can chase you off except yourself. I've been known to disagree around here, and be the recipient of abundant feedback about it, but I'm still hanging around. If it's worth it to you, you'll stay, and learn from the discussion.
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I have been looking at this free land offer for moving to the west.
States like Nebraska, Wyoming, and many others offer free land for me to move in since I have two kids under 5
That nefarious little word "free".........................I challenge you to come up with one aspect of your life and well-being that has not been tainted, infected, or overtaken by the hands of those "in-charge". Free is only as free as they want you to believe you are.
Brandy ~W~
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'Ask not what you can do for Wyoming, but what Wyoming can do for you' seems to be the pretense here, MI...
Better to stay east of the Miss...the southeast is fast becoming a retirement community...or find a good middle ground...the commonwealth of Virginia, would be a perfect fit for you.
By the way, big welcome hug :D
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I have never tried to chase off anyone from moving to Wyoming. The climate and the lack of handouts take care of the free-loaders. I lived in the far western part of the state and hired too many people moving in from somewhere else and after a couple of seasons they left "because life is too hard here". Fine by me then get the heck out. Almost all of my friends are from somewhere else. NJ, WV, TN, GA, TX, MA, MI, MN, IL and all of us have the same reasons for being here and it's because we are tired of fighting the entitlement.
Wyoming's divorce rates are some of the highest and from everyone that I know that divorced that moved here from somewhere else is because one of the partners could not handle one of the following. Snow, lack of shopping, driving hours to visit the specialist, more snow, or some other lame reason. My second wife was a social worker and she moved to Maryland because "Here in the West we don't do enough to help the victims". Or course she may have moved because I was just an a-hole ex military / cop with a bad attitude.
Anyway I would suggest visiting here, build a relationship with someone in the same field of work. I wasn't intent on moving to Wyoming but Oregon when my motorhome broke down in Lander. As I stated before that was 1993 and I will never leave even if I wake up to 2 inches of new snow this morning.
PS
Graduated UNC, FEMA Institute, POST NC, Graduated GA Public Training Center, GA Fire Level 2, Past Instructor certified: High Angle, Trench, Crash Extrication, Cave, EMT-A, EMD, Dispatch Supervisor, USCG Veteran. So please don't accuse all of us of being uneducated.
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Folks,
I suspect this guy has signed off of this forum completely, so we are wasting our breathe. I think BOSTON would be able to confirm this?
FDNYLiberty
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Folks,
I suspect this guy has signed off of this forum completely, so we are wasting our breathe. I think BOSTON would be able to confirm this?
FDNYLiberty
Spoilsport... >:D Besides, we might not need to have the same conversation with others if they get pointed to this one at the first sign of "gimmee."
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Folks,
I suspect this guy has signed off of this forum completely, so we are wasting our breathe. I think BOSTON would be able to confirm this?
FDNYLiberty
I read the replies
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I have never tried to chase off anyone from moving to Wyoming.
I have.
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I have never tried to chase off anyone from moving to Wyoming.
I have.
Well Than :o let people know that you may not always give them the best advice ???
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bluewaterMI, I'll offer to edit your book. Would likely be quite an educational experience for both of us. :) PM if you want my fee schedule.
Thanks but I'll decline the offer. I have done two pages so far. I'll do more tonight
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I have never tried to chase off anyone from moving to Wyoming.
I have.
Well Than :o let people know that you may not always give them the best advice ???
The only people I have tried to scare off are flaming NannyStatists who want to leave where they are, but want to change WY into (politically) what they just left.
I'd just as soon feed that type to the bears...
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I have been looking at this free land offer for moving to the west.
States like Nebraska, Wyoming, and many others offer free land for me to move in since I have two kids under 5
That nefarious little word "free".........................I challenge you to come up with one aspect of your life and well-being that has not been tainted, infected, or overtaken by the hands of those "in-charge". Free is only as free as they want you to believe you are.
Brandy ~W~
Not sure I get you but in a round about way I got a bunch of FREE 90% silver coins. I bought them online and had to pay for them. I used paypal and they kept saying you get 10.00 FREE if you use Bill me Later. I did not use ebay I used another site to buy them on. So I did say ok to Bill Me later and used them to pay for all the silver coins I just bought and I got them all for under $10.00 plus FREE shipping. So in some way I did something to earn those coins. I used the other service but with the credit my balance was 0.00 So in my mind I get FREE stuff. Just like opening a bank account here and they give you free money such as 50.00 or 100.00 bucks just to open the account. (I also do that almost every chance I get)
So what is your mindset on that?
(I also used the word FREE to bug those who it bugs and I could say FREE
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This explains it pretty well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_Libre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_Libre)
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Bluewater.
I give you credit for coming back again and again when it seems like the deck is stacked against you. :D
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Bluewater.
I give you credit for coming back again and again when it seems like the deck is stacked against you. :D
Thanks my wife says I am a whew bit stubborn. Also if I feel I am right about something I don't mind being the only one who stands up in support of it. I am known to be one who goes against the crowd if you will.
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Not sure I get you but in a round about way I got a bunch of FREE 90% silver coins. I bought them online and had to pay for them. I used paypal and they kept saying you get 10.00 FREE if you use Bill me Later. I did not use ebay I used another site to buy them on. So I did say ok to Bill Me later and used them to pay for all the silver coins I just bought and I got them all for under $10.00 plus FREE shipping.
So what is your mindset on that?
Actually, I can't imagine anyone selling "a bunch" of 90% silver coins for $10. Are those Pre-65 "junk silver" coins? Weren't those going for something like 40 times face value? I'd be suspicious about an offer like that.
~TG
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Bluewater.
I give you credit for coming back again and again when it seems like the deck is stacked against you. :D
Thanks my wife says I am a whew bit stubborn. Also if I feel I am right about something I don't mind being the only one who stands up in support of it. I am known to be one who goes against the crowd if you will.
Really? Thats funny, I didnt get that jive off of you at all. All I read from your posts is statism, and your ever growing need for entitlement. Trust me on this little one here blue....you suck at life right now. I hope you can get some sit down time to think about life and why you feel the way you do.
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yes I never would sell them for that kind of price. I surely would buy them though. Yes Pre 1964 dimes and i already have them in my possession.
Not sure I get you but in a round about way I got a bunch of FREE 90% silver coins. I bought them online and had to pay for them. I used paypal and they kept saying you get 10.00 FREE if you use Bill me Later. I did not use ebay I used another site to buy them on. So I did say ok to Bill Me later and used them to pay for all the silver coins I just bought and I got them all for under $10.00 plus FREE shipping.
So what is your mindset on that?
Actually, I can't imagine anyone selling "a bunch" of 90% silver coins for $10. Are those Pre-65 "junk silver" coins? Weren't those going for something like 40 times face value? I'd be suspicious about an offer like that.
~TG
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I guess we agree to disagree.
(as a person who gets no entitlements and refuses them here in my state) I work for what I earn nobody ever gave it to me. Anyways I have found the ignore button
ps Life is good. Perhaps you need some time to think why you live your life on a computer behind a name that you surely are not.
Bluewater.
I give you credit for coming back again and again when it seems like the deck is stacked against you. :D
Thanks my wife says I am a whew bit stubborn. Also if I feel I am right about something I don't mind being the only one who stands up in support of it. I am known to be one who goes against the crowd if you will.
Really? Thats funny, I didnt get that jive off of you at all. All I read from your posts is statism, and your ever growing need for entitlement. Trust me on this little one here blue....you suck at life right now. I hope you can get some sit down time to think about life and why you feel the way you do.
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Jackpot: character-building criticism is so un-PC man, get with the times ;D
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(as a person who gets no entitlements and refuses them here in my state) I work for what I earn nobody ever gave it to me. Anyways I have found the ignore button
It would be interesting to see you integrate the above claim with the questions you first posted. First you ask about tax supported subsidies, and then you deny you ever use them. Which is it? Perhaps they were just trick questions?
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So what is your mindset on that?
(I also used the word FREE to bug those who it bugs and I could say FREE
My mindset----you state that there is 'free' land here and from your post you suggest that you are 'qualified' for the 'free' land because you have 2 children under 5. So you want free land that the government says that you can have--if you follow their rules and restrictions? Does that not make you beholden to those giving you the free stuff? If you want to get out here why not do what most of us have done---pay our way to get here and pay our way while we are here. Those who spout about wanting to be out from under the yoke of the tyrants to our faces, but have their hands out behind their backs for anything the tyrants will give them 'free' will not have the mettle to weather the storm.
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Sure I suppose us folks have different views on what this and that means.
I have not been on it (and i could if I wanted too). I like people working for what they have. I don't like things handed to people. I also do not see a problem with people if they have to go on it for a "short" while if they have hard times. (It is after all why we pay our taxes for (federal and state of Michigan)
Yes I view using and levering options that are legal and allowed to us to help us secure more Liberties meaning political and economic.
(as a person who gets no entitlements and refuses them here in my state) I work for what I earn nobody ever gave it to me. Anyways I have found the ignore button
It would be interesting to see you integrate the above claim with the questions you first posted. First you ask about tax supported subsidies, and then you deny you ever use them. Which is it? Perhaps they were just trick questions?
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(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r282/klc7402/Troll.jpg)
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The place where they want you to move secures more money for the schools which is why they want you to move there. Also the states gets more federal dollars per head in the future. Before you take anything for free I would suggest you do your homework and make sure you know what the rules are. It using Leverage in your favor
I have never said I want to move to Wyoming however I asked why would folks want to move there.
No personal or corporate taxes are good for economic freedom but only if jobs are to be had.
Low taxes could mean more money in peoples pockets so businesses might move in. And since no state corporate taxes are there It makes me speculate taxes and licenses fees must be high
So what is your mindset on that?
(I also used the word FREE to bug those who it bugs and I could say FREE
My mindset----you state that there is 'free' land here and from your post you suggest that you are 'qualified' for the 'free' land because you have 2 children under 5. So you want free land that the government says that you can have--if you follow their rules and restrictions? Does that not make you beholden to those giving you the free stuff? If you want to get out here why not do what most of us have done---pay our way to get here and pay our way while we are here. Those who spout about wanting to be out from under the yoke of the tyrants to our faces, but have their hands out behind their backs for anything the tyrants will give them 'free' will not have the mettle to weather the storm.
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I wouldn't feed him either. He's an ugly mug. If I had those around here I'd be off the store to buy some guns to scare them off
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r282/klc7402/Troll.jpg)
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"Case for moving toward freedom"
I am trying to understand what is your viewpoints of freedom?
Also what more freedom or political liberty do you have than the other 49 states have?
Taxes I can understand so I agree that is awesome
No building regulations on land though is based on cities county perhaps state not a federal government?
I understand there is the most independent vote there than most or all places. Do you have third parties elected to office now?
(off to lunch now)
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The place where they want you to move secures more money for the schools which is why they want you to move there. Also the states gets more federal dollars per head in the future. Before you take anything for free I would suggest you do your homework and make sure you know what the rules are. It using Leverage in your favor
I have never said I want to move to Wyoming however I asked why would folks want to move there.
No personal or corporate taxes are good for economic freedom but only if jobs are to be had.
Low taxes could mean more money in peoples pockets so businesses might move in. And since no state corporate taxes are there It makes me speculate taxes and licenses fees must be high
Your posts continually return to taxes funding this or that program---you just don't get it. We don't believe that any of those programs should exist. End of story. But if you believe that the future funding of the school system by federal money is a worthy cause I believe you are probably where you should be and ought stay put.
Brandy ~W~
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I have never said I want to move to Wyoming however I asked why would folks want to move there.
I believe the list of reasons (pointers) was posted was back on page one of this topic. They are quite specific. Any other reasons why you should move to Wyoming (which obviously you are not) are left to those who make a personal decision to do so.
Does that answer your question?
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The place where they want you to move secures more money for the schools which is why they want you to move there. Also the states gets more federal dollars per head in the future. Before you take anything for free I would suggest you do your homework and make sure you know what the rules are. It using Leverage in your favor
I have never said I want to move to Wyoming however I asked why would folks want to move there.
No personal or corporate taxes are good for economic freedom but only if jobs are to be had.
Low taxes could mean more money in peoples pockets so businesses might move in. And since no state corporate taxes are there It makes me speculate taxes and licenses fees must be high
You post continually return to taxes funding this or that program---you just don't get it. We don't believe that any of those programs should exist. End of story. But if you believe that the future funding of the school system by federal money is a worthy cause I believe you are probably where you should be and ought stay put.
Brandy ~W~
Well put. Basically dont feed the pig and the pig will eventually stop sniffing at your doorstep...hopefully. Blue to answer your remark about my "online" name, simply put its because of where I live; i.e. Wyoming, i.e. my ranch, i.e. away from the likes of little piggies that that enjoy shitting where they sleep.
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I never said I wouldn't move to Wyoming. but at this time I have not said I would.
"Case for moving toward freedom"
I am trying to understand what is your viewpoints of freedom?
Also what more freedom or political liberty do you have than the other 49 states have?
Taxes I can understand so I agree that is awesome
No building regulations on land though is based on cities county perhaps state not a federal government?
I understand there is the most independent vote there than most or all places. Do you have third parties elected to office now?
(off to lunch now)
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I want to move to WY because I wish to live among those that truly desire to be left alone, do all that they have committed to do and truly believe in the Zero Agression Principle.
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Doug,
And dont forget getting away from all of the "bottom feeders" and the "freebie takers" (generational welfare recipients, illegal aliens, and any and all assorted dreggs.)
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Doug,
And dont forget getting away from all of the "bottom feeders" and the "freebie takers" (generational welfare recipients, illegal aliens, and any and all assorted dreggs.)
For me, that is an entirely different issue, but suffice it to say that those that wish to control others would not feel...welcome in a free community anyway.
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Ok so here is a question why would folks want to move to Wyoming?
For the people. Which is why we like to communicate with each other here - "off doing more productive things."
"Case for moving toward freedom"
I am trying to understand what is your viewpoints of freedom?
No you're not. That's been covered all over this forum. You're a masochist who likes bating people you don't know.
The reason why your movement will never be a success is because you CHASE off anybody who might think a little different than you say something different, or even a different viewpoints. Instead of asking what and why there viewpoint is what it is and ask them to please back it up. Perhaps there education level, mindset or thinking is beyond your comprehension. You guys inspired me to right a book today.
mmm I thought for sure someone would ask me what I meant by that instead.
Off to work on my book thanks folks for the idea
WON'T BE A SUCCESS. FINDING THIS GROUP OF FRIENDS IS A SUCCESS. DO YOU RESENT THAT?
OH! YOU'RE GOING TO GO WRITE A BOOK? I would enjoy "chasing" you masochist. I would. And by the way, you don't go and buy guns to scare anything. You buy them to take life. Troll.
I'm done. Anything I say will just keep this troll going.
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Why would folks want to move to Wyoming? Let me relate to you a true story.
On our most recent trip to visit Wyoming to look over the many diverse areas of the State, my wife and were driving up from Riverton to Cody via Worland. We had just past through Greybull and stopped at a Highway Rest Area located just outside the entrance to the South Big Horn County Airport. As we drove into the parking area, we noticed an older gentleman pushing his wife, who was in a wheelchair, into the restroom area. After a few moments I got out of my car and when I entered the restroom lobby area, the gentleman was standing there looking at the historical area photos posted in the lobby. Our eyes met, and I smiled at him, and he at me. After I came out of the restroom, he smiled at me again, and asked, “Where are you from?” I said, “New York.” He replied, “New York? You out here on vacation?” I said, “No sir, actually my wife and I are out here traveling and across the state and looking at the different areas of Wyoming to see where that we might decide to retire to.” He then told me that he had relatives in Greybull and was visiting them, and how nice this area was near the Bighorn Mountains and we had a very friendly conversation about the area and Wyoming in general.
His wife appeared, wheeling herself out to where we were talking. He looked at her and said, “Guess what darlin', these folks are all the way from New York and they are out here lookin’ for a place to settle down.” She turned to me, and looking up from her wheelchair, she said with a stern look on her face, “Don’t you come on out here and think about trying to change our laws!” A bit surprised at here response, I responded honestly, “No ma’am, I‘m not moving out to Wyoming to change a thing. In fact, I’m coming out to Wyoming because of your laws.” My wife came over and joined the conversation when she noticed the woman waving here finger at me sternly. We stayed and talked with both of them for about 15 minutes. Nice folks indeed. I remember making a statement that the one thing that would take me a bit of time to get used to was the constant breeze. The old man replied, “Yup, but it keeps the riff-raff away and keeps the bums off the streets.” We all laughed.
In every small town we stopped by to visit or just passed through, folks would strike up a friendly conversation. From the guy eating a cheeseburger in a small convenience store in Afton who noticed my car’s license plates, to the town “Librarian” in Hyattville where I walked in to ask directions. The “Library” was nothing more than a small room separated in her house with a couple of couches and a shelf full of paperback books. By far, everyone that my wife and I had the pleasure to meet during our travels across the state, were the friendliest folks we ever met. Same goes for the folks I have “met” on this forum. I don’t believe that was mentioned on the list at the beginning of this forum topic.
Another reason? Wyoming has the CLEANEST Highway Rest Areas that my wife and I have ever seen --- anywhere. ;D
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Here is a Question that has not been answered:
Also what more freedom or political liberty do you have than the other 49 states have?
Who said the book is about this group Free State Wyoming? I said inspiration for a book.
I view part of your statement as a personal threat perhaps wanting to do me harm. That is illegal no matter what part of the USA you live in.
Name calling also just shows how childish some folks here can be. While others are much nicer.
Ok so here is a question why would folks want to move to Wyoming?
For the people. Which is why we like to communicate with each other here - "off doing more productive things."
"Case for moving toward freedom"
I am trying to understand what is your viewpoints of freedom?
No you're not. That's been covered all over this forum. You're a masochist who likes bating people you don't know.
The reason why your movement will never be a success is because you CHASE off anybody who might think a little different than you say something different, or even a different viewpoints. Instead of asking what and why there viewpoint is what it is and ask them to please back it up. Perhaps there education level, mindset or thinking is beyond your comprehension. You guys inspired me to right a book today.
mmm I thought for sure someone would ask me what I meant by that instead.
Off to work on my book thanks folks for the idea
WON'T BE A SUCCESS. FINDING THIS GROUP OF FRIENDS IS A SUCCESS. DO YOU RESENT THAT?
OH! YOU'RE GOING TO GO WRITE A BOOK? I would enjoy "chasing" you masochist. I would. And by the way, you don't go and buy guns to scare anything. You buy them to take life. Troll.
I'm done. Anything I say will just keep this troll going.
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I view part of your statement as a personal threat perhaps wanting to do me harm. That is illegal no matter what part of the USA you live in.
You were not threatened, bluewaterMI. The word "Chase" was put in quotes referring to your use of the same word in a previous post.
The reason why your movement will never be a success is because you CHASE off anybody who might think a little different than you say something different, or even a different viewpoints.
Also, in a previous post you said, flippantly:
. . . If I had those around here I'd be off the store to buy some guns to scare them off
and were corrected for that silly notion and given a different opinion not directed at you.
And by the way, you don't go and buy guns to scare anything. You buy them to take life. Troll.
. . .
I'm done. Anything I say will just keep this troll going.
Either way, Dodd has no further use for you which appears to be a growing opinion
having read through this thread.
Back to the subject question. . . there are at least six excellent and direct answers to your
original question and a wealth of related information on the forum. Please catch up
on your reading so we can all get back to learning from each other.
Terence
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Please catch up
on your reading so we can all get back to learning from each other.
Or go away if you really are not interested in rational discussion.
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If I own a gun I do not hold it to take life.
I use it to protect and defend life.
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NO NO Blueey!!
READING, not posting. Go along now...
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I'm confused...is this an alien transmission?
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Ok so here is a question why would folks want to move to Wyoming?
What is the benefits of it that are not in other parts of the country?
Purty Wyoming gals.
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Common sense may not be the rule, but it is a little more common than most other places I go...
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I'm confused...is this an alien transmission?
Beep Beep... beepbeepbeepbeeeeeeep... Beep Beep... Mars needs Women... Beep Beep Beep Plan 9... Beep Beep... Destroy all Slim Whitman albums... Beep Beep Beep...
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I'm confused...is this an alien transmission?
Beep Beep... beepbeepbeepbeeeeeeep... Beep Beep... Mars needs Women... Beep Beep Beep Plan 9... Beep Beep... Destroy all Slim Whitman albums... Beep Beep Beep...
You have NO idea how scary it is hearing you're going to be sent to Whiteman Air Force Base until you look real close at the paperwork and discover it's WHITEMAN and not WHITMAN!
http://www.whiteman.af.mil/ (http://www.whiteman.af.mil/)