Free State Wyoming Forum
Free State Wyoming (FSW) Promotional => Making the Case for Moving Toward Freedom (and Wyoming!) => Topic started by: Paul Bonneau on September 14, 2011, 09:39:35 AM
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Interesting effort going on here:
http://alt-market.com/safehaven (http://alt-market.com/safehaven)
I have made a couple of posts there telling them about us.
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Paul,
Do you have a direct link to Wyo data? I surfed around the Alt site but did not find anything related to Wyo.
Thank YOu,
pW
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google to the rescue :)
http://www.alt-market.com/groups/viewgroup/58-Northeast+Wyoming (http://www.alt-market.com/groups/viewgroup/58-Northeast+Wyoming)
http://www.alt-market.com/social/search/field?FIELD_STATE=Wyoming (http://www.alt-market.com/social/search/field?FIELD_STATE=Wyoming) looks like only 3 listed as WY
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aalt-market.com+wyoming (https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aalt-market.com+wyoming) the google query if you want more although nothing looked real promising
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I tried emailing this to Brandon of alt-market but they appear to have a misconfigured DNS system so mail is having issues.
They have no mention of taxes due on bartering. While many people do not think that bartering requires taxes the IRS disagrees. I personally think this is silly because there is no profit generated, no capital gains, nothing. If I go to the store and pick up something for a friend who repays me the exact cost of the item there is no tax assessed but when you barter it seems there is. I probably should not say that too loudly or they will start taxing doing favors for friends.
I personally think this is an important issue because they are pushing the barter aspect quite a bit and with tight budgets the tax collectors tend to come out like cockroaches in a cheap motel. They are in essence running a higher risk of audits which will ultimately be based on estimated value of goods.
http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html (http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html)
Bartering occurs when you exchange goods or services without exchanging money. An example of bartering is a plumber doing repair work for a dentist in exchange for dental services. The fair market value of goods and services received in exchange for goods or services you provide must be included in income in the year received.
Further http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=187904,00.html (http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=187904,00.html) words it slightly differently
Another example of a one-on-one, non-barter exchange transaction is a plumber doing repair work for a dentist in exchange for dental services. The fair market value of the goods and services exchanged must be reported as income by both parties.
Given this it looks like the IRS thinks the entire value of what you receive must be declared as income. A person who does 1 daily barter for $300 would generate $109,500 in taxable income at the end of the year, as they only have the $300 item to show for their troubles they can not pay that tax bill. There is something fundamentally wrong with this approach.
I bet they would frown upon Alice selling a $300 item for $0.01 (a loss so usually not taxable) to Bob and Bob selling a $300 item to Alice for $0.01. It involved an exchange of money thus not the IRS definition of bartering but they would probably claim that it is in essence bartering and still go after people if they thought they could justify their existence by doing so.
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They have no mention of taxes due on bartering.
Are they emphasizing barter in relation to 'SafeHaven' or
just in general?
The key is to inform a fruitful barter
stopping short of running the exchange. Something as
simple as a forum and a series of articles.
Any formal exchange would increase prices in overhead
and become liable for collecting taxes. Unless one has
the resources to run a 'B-Bay' it's not worth it.
Terence
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Are they emphasizing barter in relation to 'SafeHaven' or
just in general?
The key is to inform a fruitful barter
stopping short of running the exchange. Something as
simple as a forum and a series of articles.
I dont think that they are acting like an exchange, the IRS requires "barter exchanges" (which they get to define who and what they are) to file special tax papers on transactions as well. Further if you buy stuff for the purpose of bartering you may be engaging in a "barter business" which requires other tax forms to be filed. They do advocate bartering all over their site which is what prompted me to try to email Brandon about this particular issue. Because of the prolific advertising of bartering between people I can see the IRS taking a closer look at that (they did just hire a ton more auditors).
And people claim we do not have a national sales tax - we do its just called an income tax !
So when is the IRS going to go after school children swapping lunches for failing to report this as income?
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They do advocate bartering all over their site which is what prompted me to try to email Brandon about this particular issue. Because of the prolific advertising of bartering between people I can see the IRS taking a closer look at that (they did just hire a ton more auditors).
Yes, and why invite unwarranted attention if there's truly no exchange? I haven't met
Brandon but would think it no great new insight for Stuart to strike the balance
between informing the barter and running the exchange. Something
like this: Your Optimal Barter Equation (http://www.youroptimal.com/blog/2010/02/13/your-optimal-barter-equation/).
Terence
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So when is the IRS going to go after school children swapping lunches for failing to report this as income?
Probably never.
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Paul: I have made a couple of posts there telling them about us.
Oh, so that's how I found out about FSW! I've been trying to trace back when I first found out about it. Now I know: first stop was a Preppers group site, then went to Alt-Mkt, then to FSW!
KK
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Interesting effort going on here:
http://alt-market.com/safehaven (http://alt-market.com/safehaven)
I have made a couple of posts there telling them about us.
Do the FSW'ers actually want to grow the project? I get a vibe from many FSW that they really don't want to grow it.
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What project might that be?
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What project might that be?
The Free State Project in Wyoming. It seems many folks don't want to promote it, or make it hard for people to get involved.
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What project might that be?
The Free State Project in Wyoming. It seems many folks don't want to promote it, or make it hard for people to get involved.
minute 30:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLrSmdzsIEM
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What project might that be?
The Free State Project in Wyoming. It seems many folks don't want to promote it, or make it hard for people to get involved.
minute 30:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLrSmdzsIEM
Was this done as an act of a FSW member to promote it? I have seen people here on the board time and time again NOT want to promote it.
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There are a lot of different ways to promote something. Not all are equal. I have no idea if this one is good or not.
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There are a lot of different ways to promote something. Not all are equal. I have no idea if this one is good or not.
You are correct. However, I DO know the ones that are more effective. ;)
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What project might that be?
The Free State Project in Wyoming.
There is no Free State Project in Wyoming. The Free State Wyoming group was formed by Ken Royce in response to the choice of NH by the FSP. It does not have any connection to the FSP. It is simply a bunch of folks who have individual objectives and strategies for self-preservation that are quite different than the objectives and strategies of the FSP.
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What project might that be?
The Free State Project in Wyoming.
There is no Free State Project in Wyoming. The Free State Wyoming group was formed by Ken Royce in response to the choice of NH by the FSP. It does not have any connection to the FSP. It is simply a bunch of folks who have individual objectives and strategies for self-preservation that are quite different than the objectives and strategies of the FSP.
Let's fix that.
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Let's fix that.
The usual response to that is: if you want to do something different, then do it. Those who believe as you do will probably follow you. Many of us don't consider that the FSW needs any "fixing." We don't think it's broken. :)
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Let's fix that.
The usual response to that is: if you want to do something different, then do it. Those who believe as you do will probably follow you. Many of us don't consider that the FSW needs any "fixing." We don't think it's broken. :)
So you are saying that increasing the number of FSW folks moving to Wyoming does not sit well with you?
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So you are saying that increasing the number of FSW folks moving to Wyoming does not sit well with you?
Not the same thing at all. FSW is not a political entity, and making it so will not "fix" it. How others promote FSW to encourage people to join us in Wyoming is pretty wide open, and none of my business what others do anyway. But to misrepresent FSW as some political outfit and as an answer to the political problems here or anywhere is not correct or honest. That I have real problems with. Not saying you are advocating that, but some do.
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That video was great; it made me feel much better about FSW. I like how they were saying something like “every time a group of people move in together and try to change it all it fails”. That is so true, and as I understand from all my scrounging around on this site, any of the members who had made the move already, want to do no such changing; they just want to join the community that is already in place. Where ever you all have landed fits your individual plans, you just happen to also have this connection to likeminded people on the internet also. From all of my reading I have not felt persuaded one way or another by force. People just put things out there for me to take in or reject as I feel fit.
As for the original topic; I always get irked when we do not use FRN’s as a medium or exchange and the gv feel’s that they should get their piece of the pie too. I like to think of it this way…
If I was physically able, I could have pulled out my shovel and moved a pile of dirt from one side of my yard to the other. I’m not, so I had my buddy come down and do it for me. He likes to drink so I give him a case of beer for the labor. Being a good buddy, he splits the case with me that night. Here’s the rub, my liberal, hand out taking neighbor called the tax collector. The next morning the assessor shows up and explains that the payment I gave should be reported and the payment my buddy received should also be reported, and taxes would be due. We ask how much would be due, he said it could be anywhere between 10-29%. I looked at my pal and saw that he was as disgusted with the situation as I was. My buddy surprises me by telling the assessor he would like to pay his percentage right now, and proceeds to vomit about a third of what he drank the night before all over the man’s face!
Ok, I just made that up, but it makes me feel better… ;D
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That is pretty much the way we feel. We are just a group of like minded people. Not a political entity. However it dosent mean that we wont whole-heartly support a like minded politician.
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So you are saying that increasing the number of FSW folks moving to Wyoming does not sit well with you?
Not the same thing at all. FSW is not a political entity, and making it so will not "fix" it. How others promote FSW to encourage people to join us in Wyoming is pretty wide open, and none of my business what others do anyway. But to misrepresent FSW as some political outfit and as an answer to the political problems here or anywhere is not correct or honest. That I have real problems with. Not saying you are advocating that, but some do.
I never said to make it political. I suggested making it an effective organization to recruit liberty minded immigrants to Wyoming, which benefits us all. Currently, there seems no real effort to market FSW as such. It would be more effective if it were. If Boston isn't interested, that is fine. However, it seems like a waste.
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That video was great; it made me feel much better about FSW. I like how they were saying something like “every time a group of people move in together and try to change it all it fails”. That is so true, and as I understand from all my scrounging around on this site, any of the members who had made the move already, want to do no such changing; they just want to join the community that is already in place. Where ever you all have landed fits your individual plans, you just happen to also have this connection to likeminded people on the internet also. From all of my reading I have not felt persuaded one way or another by force. People just put things out there for me to take in or reject as I feel fit.
Bingo. . . .good people are the soil for the right seeds to sprout.
As Boston has pointed out: The liberal invasion of Colorado was slow, unstoppable and with no
banner or formal organization to even make reference to.
Terence
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Very interesting video. I was wondering why the ultra-rich were pushing for higher taxation...the vid sure gives a lot to think about!
KK