Free State Wyoming Forum
Wyoming Research and Information => General Wyoming Living Information => Topic started by: FDNYLiberty on September 28, 2011, 09:37:41 PM
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I was wondering what the (WEPA) process / cost is for having a septic system put in.
I'm considering buying some land and building a home (just "considering" at this point - I just may get lucky and find that "perfect" home out there for sale) so I want to try to figure this cost in if I construct versus buying a pre-existing home.
I suspect that the most common (standard) size for residential uses a 500 gallon septic tank.
Can anyone assist me with some first-hand knowledge about this process and the costs?
Thanks.
FDNYLiberty
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I Googled "WEPA" and still don't know what "WEPA" means ?
Clem
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Been there, done that, myself, without any help.
Simple. Easy.
In Crook County you can pick up a packet of info at the county building. I think you can get it on like at the
WY DEQ (dept of enviro quality).
Here:
http://deq.state.wy.us/wqd/www/Permitting/Pages/SMWW/smallwastewater.asp
If you get a tank listed on their website (WY approved) then it's a piece of cake. I bought mine and had it delivered from Belle Fourche. Mine was 1,000 g and two compartments. More than I needed.
The design of the leachfield can be done by anyone with a 4 function calculator and 5 neurons. Figure how many bathrooms gives how many gal/day of effluent (?). Then you dig a few sample test holes and determine the absorption. This gives you the total absorption requirement and hence the length of the pipe. I used "hi tech" stuff which requires NO backfill of rock since rock up here is expensive to transport.
Then you draw a little picture showing your proposed plan with your calculations and send it off. Can take about 4 weeks for approval.
Then you just dig the hole for the tank, the trenches for the leachfield and insert everything BUT DON'T COVER IT UP. Crook sends a guy out just to insure that you did what you said you would do. Then you fill it in. The WY fee is only about $25 if anything. The county charges $300 for their labor to come out and inspect.
Mac
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Think he is suggesting Wyoming EPA, which is the Wyoming DEQ
edit:
Ok, Mac beat me to it. :)
I actually saw Mac's system during construction and it is a really slick design. A neat alternative to the standard cast cement septic tank, distribution box and 4 inch diameter and very long fingers typically used...
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Think he is suggesting Wyoming EPA, which is the Wyoming DEQ
That is what I meant by "WEPA", correct-a-mundo....
Thanks manfromnevada for that great and specific information. I may take you up on a "lesson" on How to Do-it-yourself if/when I decide to build.
Has anybody out there had a septic system installed by a company that does such work? Costs?
Thanks again folks.
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This is the type of material I used:
http://www.ads-pipe.com/en/product_static/onsitebionarrowchambwork.html
There's even a conversion factor allowed on the WY DEQ website for this kind of material. You can use less total footage than with the standard 4" perf pipe.
BTW, I'd be leery of contractors. Spoken to several in the area that will purposefully cheat to allow you to use less pipe. All you're doing is cutting your own throat. Had one that suggested that instead of presoaking the ground before doing the absorption test (as required) that you "get much better results if you leave it dry."
Mac
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This is the type of material I used:
http://www.ads-pipe.com/en/product_static/onsitebionarrowchambwork.html
There's even a conversion factor allowed on the WY DEQ website for this kind of material. You can use less total footage than with the standard 4" perf pipe.
BTW, I'd be leery of contractors. Spoken to several in the area that will purposefully cheat to allow you to use less pipe. All you're doing is cutting your own throat. Had one that suggested that instead of presoaking the ground before doing the absorption test (as required) that you "get much better results if you leave it dry."
Mac
That sounds a bit scary. Nothing worse than having a septic system fail in the dead of winter and being forced to dig it up until the problem is found. Been there, done that. It ain't fun. The only good thing about winter is that the smell isn't as bad as in sun drenched warm weather. ::)
Rule ONE on septic systems is to build it bigger than necessary, never, ever smaller. I've lived on septic systems nearly my entire life and seen my share of them fail. Soil composition is a *very* big element in determining the correct design. Skimp on this as Mac alludes to and you will be digging it up, sooner than later, guaranteed. Keep in mind that the moment these systems start being used, degredation starts. Perforated pipe gets clogged here and there. The gravel around the perf pipe gets a little clogged. No matter if the septic tank is working right or not. Pretty soon, total efficiency takes a hit and you work with less and less finger system flow until -Uh-oh. Honey, did you notice that the toilet isn't flushing? Keep all trees and bushes away.
It's a prime example of do it right the first time. -And be sure you know what you are putting down the drain and possible implications. The forgiving city sewer it ain't.
The clown that suggests he can save you money on the initial install *knows* it is going to crap out, or is that crap in? He's just hoping you'll call him to come and fix it!!
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Yes, use the biggest tank that you can afford. 3 chamber if possible but never a single chamber. 2000 gallons if you can get it, The poly tanks are great. Get one you can drive over. Some arent rated for that and well, accidents do happen. Im not for modern inventions when it comes to something like leach lines. What happens later when you have a clog or accidently damage it and need to replace it. Is the company still in business?
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There's something to be said for the old standard tried and true method.
But then again that eliminates any improvements . . .
I bought a standard concrete tank. I know it's not going to collapse. One time purchase. I had heard some bad things about the poly tanks.
Similar to what bobcat had written, my neighbor's leachfield "failed" two springs ago during the rainy season. The contractor installed it in a low area where there were springs (unknown to anyone). The "honey, the toilet isn't flushing" moment came and for over a month they were using the woods for their toilet and taking sponge baths. He had the tank pumped and within 24 hours it was full again from water backflowing from the leachfield. Then entire system had to be abandoned and a new one put in elsewhere. It cost him BIG money since everything had to be dug deeply (due to a basement drain) and shoring had to be installed while the crew worked.
Re: putting stuff down the drain, I had always heard that using a garbage disposal improperly (excessively) can really add a lot of load to a system. So we opted not to have on in our house. We use little screen basket inserts in the kitchen sink and after doing dishes each night (we don't use the dishwasher) we dump the baskets out in the trash can. I'll be long dead (or moved) before we ever need this tank pumped out!
Mac
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Clarification:
It appears that there is NO fee for the septic application.
Also, it appears that Crook County no longer participates in the "delegated county" program. At least not according to DEQ website.
I heard that the guy who used to do the inspections (Fred Duncan) was let go for "lack of funds" in the county. He told me this himself at a chance meeting at Wal Mart this summer. He said, "Yeah, 'you' guys finally got your way." I suppose he was referring to keeping taxes and spending down.
The forms may seem involved, but anyone can do it (even me). Pretty straight forward. Just some calculations and common sense (don't put your leachfield next to your well, next to a creek, next to a ravine, or next to your property line).
A former FSW member had attended a DEQ one day workshop and passed along some tips to me as well as the confidence that I could do it myself. The website is much improved in the last four years since I installed my system. A few requirements have been added (cleanouts at certain points), but it's essentially the same. I'd be willing to pass along any useful experience if anyone here actually goes forward and installs their own. At a minimum, you need to watch your contractor closely and make sure they are doing it right.
Mac
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<snip>
Also, it appears that Crook County no longer participates in the "delegated county" program. At least not according to DEQ website.
I heard that the guy who used to do the inspections (Fred Duncan) was let go for "lack of funds" in the county. He told me this himself at a chance meeting at Wal Mart this summer. He said, "Yeah, 'you' guys finally got your way." I suppose he was referring to keeping taxes and spending down. The forms may seem involved, but anyone can do it (even me). Pretty straight forward. Just some calculations and common sense (don't put your leachfield next to your well, next to a creek, next to a ravine, or next to your property line).
Mac
FDNY:excuse the hijack for a moment, as Mac has hit on an important point. This is a lesson that local political participation and voting *does* work. For those that think all is lost and won't vote, please think again and focus on local and state.
Yeeeeeehaaaaw! Now that report makes my day/week/month... Mr. D. was, well, an arrogant bunglecrat. I've heard him for myself telling a small group of 'concerned citizens' that it was up to the county/him what you did with your property, not you the property owner. My wife grabbed my shirt to hold me in my seat... She knew I was boiling at such a remark. Besides that comment, there were others that reinforced... It was almost enough to keep me from even considering General Crook county. I've been through the advent of his type where I live now and it hasn't been pretty. Once these things start, they only get worse-unless significant and consistent pressure is put on county commissioners. I could talk volumes about it.
Knowing that at least one of the commissioners that wanted a 'planner' got voted out (maybe more? not sure) and the remaining fellows said enough was enough and cut funding, is exactly how it's done. Some of you may recall that I had commented in a thread on this when the general out of control planner issue was heating up. And that the way to get rid of said planner was to pressure the commissioners as they provide the funding and the planner reports to them? Exactimundo. Congrats folks of Crook, you've done well. Now, just make sure the possition of planner and his 'assistant are *eliminated*. A county of 8000 really doesn't need such a position(s). Keep the pressure on the commissioners to keep expenses down! And more importantly know something about where a commissioner candidate stands on important issues like this.
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Crook county only gets around 6 million in revenue. :D Great isnt it. >:D
I had a 2 bedroom house in California That was built around 1902. The guy who built it built the septic system and made a 3000 gallon tank from cinderblock and plaster and a leachfield from clay pipe. A hundred years later there had never been an issue with the system. I wanted to put a addition on the house so Had to get a permit. They sent out someone from the health department to take a look at the existing system and said that it had never been inspected before and didnt have an operating permit issued by his office so he would have to red tag the house untill I replaced the existing system with a new system. Red tag means condemed....
I fought with them for 2 years and had everyone you could imagine come out and look at it. The engineers all said it was fine but the health department was stuck on the fact that a permit wasent issued from them for the initial construction. The fact that they didnt exist untill 70 years after the system was built was irrevelant to them...
I finally won after much expence and wasted time and the guy who started all the hassle was promoted to the operations officer of the LA county health department.
What a Joke....
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Even $6MM seems too much, but then there are publik skrewls and such...
So this begs the question, who and how does one go about getting an inspection of a new septic system in Crook Cty now?
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Here is the crook county budget.
Im not sure who you call but Ill find out. I know that where I live the DEQ people dont come around anymore to inspect our system.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac146/crappiewy/002.jpg)
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac146/crappiewy/001.jpg)
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According to the DEQ website, if you don't live in a "delegated" county, then there is NO inspection whatsoever.
See item # 6 of this page:
http://deq.state.wy.us/wqd/www/Permitting/Pages/SMWW/smallwastewater.asp
Also from that page:
Is an inspection required?
DEQ does not require inspections of septic systems. However, the County may require an inspection prior to backfill. Please contact your County to determine if an inspection is required.
I suppose one would have to call the county to see what the current situation is.
Mac
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I visited the county folks today at the "growth and development" department.
Right from the horse's mouth (?)
Nothing has changed from before.
We are not a "delegated" county, but this just means that the state DEQ handles the entire application rather than being reviewed by the county.
Once the DEQ approves your plan, you are free to build it.
HOWEVER, Crook County still requires an inspection of the installation after it is constructed, but before it is covered up, simply to confirm that it was built to the approved plan. There is a $200 inspection fee. Same as 4 years ago when I did mine. As long as you do what you said you were going to do there's no recourse for them to make "suggestions."
Mac
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Thanks for that updated info manfromnevada.
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$200 inspection fee. that would be funny if it wasn't sheer theft.
$200 just to have a bloke come out and say, yup, per plan and put the magic okee dokee on the file...
Oh well, it could be worse. One more thing to get corrected...
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In my house in california, county health used to charge me $350 per year.....
For inspections in which they never came. They of course "audited" it from the office. :(
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I just did a septic system in carbon county. My GF, who has no experience plumbing, filled out the form and sent it to the state. The "inspector" highlighted the mistakes with a yellow marker and sent it back with instructions how to correct. GF made the corrections as instructed and returned to DEQ. No inspector, no address, no problem. I did it myself with a backhoe and parts. the whole thing, out the door, was $1300. THis included tank, all pipe, two loads of gravel and back hoe rental. Just for comparison, i called a couple of contractors and was quoted 3 to 6 thousand. This includes the "remote tax" because i live so far out of town.
pW
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Indeed. I did all my labor myself. Including the plans and application. Easy.
I did have to pay the Crook County inspection extortion fee though.
MAC
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I *am* an excavator and have installed septic systems in Platte and Albany counties. Some pointers:
You have to get a permit from the Wyoming DEQ in Cheyenne to get started. Costs $200 and takes 4-8 weeks to approve. If it is just for your home, you can fill out the application and submit it yourself. If it is for any kind of business use, it has to be signed off by a certified engineer (good choice is the county engineer, who is known to the DEQ).
Albany requires an inspection from the county. Used to be Barney, who lived down in Centennial in that big log cabin. Not sure who is doing it now. ALL the trenches need to be open from the house through the leach field, and the leach field must be filled to the top of the pipe/infiltrators (top still exposed). They will come out, take a couple of pictures and check the slopes on the pipes. If you're in a remote area, takes about 2 hours--5 minutes to do the inspection, and 1:55 to catch up on the latest gossip.
Platte does not require an inspection, but I always ask the county engineer come out and take a look to make sure I didn't miss anything. Remember this is Wyoming--people, even county government--tend to be just other ranchers, farmers and laborers and are usually nice folks. I helped with some rezoning of property last year, and the county assessor, Dennis, was wonderful--nice guy and really helped us out. He's retired now, but his sister is now the Mayor of Wheatland (first woman mayor in the town's history).
On the checklist:
#1 CHECK YOUR SOIL TYPE!!! Wyoming has all sorts of different soils. If you've got that hard-packed bentonite clay, by springtime your tank may be sitting on top of the ground, rather than in it! It is hard as concrete when dry, but is actually dense and fluid enough when wet, that it can float a concrete tank right out of the ground. Quite amazing to see. In that case, excavate several feet around it and fill with dense sand, so there is some drainage. (Don't put gravel next to, or under, a concrete tank--always have a few inches of sand for even pressure).
#2 Check your high water table. You don't want your leach field filling up with water and running backwards into the septic tank then into the house. Particularly when it rains hard--Wyoming is known for flash floods, and they can occur under the ground in sandy and rocky soils, where you don't actually SEE them--until your toilet starts dumping on the floor. A deep backhoe cut can reveal what is going on underground.
#3 Keep the septic field at least 100 feet from any well or spring, or you'll contaminate it.
#4 Tank size is determined by the gpd (gallons per day) you are generating, and the tank must retain its contents for 3 days. The rule-of-thumb that the DEQ uses is gpd x 1.5 = tank size. So if you've got 800 gpd, you need a tank size of 1200 gallons.
#5 Use a concrete tank, either 1200 or 1500 gallons. I recommend avoiding the 2000 gallon tanks, as they are just a 1500 gal tank with a spacer. Makes them really tall, so you need a deep hole to set them and they are a pain to set and service. Better off with 2 smaller tanks. Don't use a poly tank--critters (badgers, prairie dogs) will cut through the sides and you'll end up pulling it out and putting in a concrete tank.
#6 Infiltrators / biodiffusers are a better choice than pipe and gravel, in most cases. Just make sure they are set on a firm base--if you have soil that doesn't have any rock, dump some pebbles in first to set the edges on, or in a couple of years you will find that they have sunk a bit and soil has filled them up. And you cannot dig up and fix--it will be dig up and REPLACE, unless you want to do a heck of a lot of manual labor.
Good luck with your installation!