Free State Wyoming Forum
Wyoming Research and Information => General Wyoming Living Information => Topic started by: wybhroots on February 03, 2013, 06:59:32 PM
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Hello Everyone~
I was wondering what reactions you may have received from family and friends about moving to Wyoming and specially about the FSW (if told that was the reason for move).
I want to be clear that we will move to a place where we feel our principles will be accepted and our family/friends will not hinder us from pursuing such a move.
Also, we have not shared many details to our family or friends, except for a select few that are aware of what's happening in the world.....basically those that haven't drank the "kool-aid".
However, a couple close friends who are "like-minded" in many ways seem to think gathering in one state (or county) is a poor choice. We would be a sitting target or at the least, joining a cult of some sort. I'm guessing they are referring to the group of people who are settling in Idaho (?) in a closed society. They also argue that it would be best to stay put where we currently are and fight at the local political levels. Mind you, we have tried this and have been active, but nothing is changing for the better in this "land of 10,000 taxes". In fact, this last election our state, county, and precinct was turned over completely to the democrats. Not surprising, but still cannot stomach the fraud (& PAC money) around here either.
I'm just at the point where.....why should we stay in this State at all? My husband and I both have said we feel like we are drowning here......the life is being sucked out of us the longer we stay. It's really sad, since we do like the country in Minnesota as well. We've considered the rural areas here too, but it's just as bad there(local politics).
Thanks for any replies : )
~Amy
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Just wondering if you've read the official "frequently asked questions" post by Boston: http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=24.0
Should settle all of the "cult" questions.
As for my family and friends in California... most of them thought I was out of my mind to come here. Those who really care about me have now accepted the fact that I am healthier, happier and much better off here than I was there. Some of them plan to join me, as soon as they can.
In the end, as much as I cared about them, I had to do what was best for me. I suspect that's about the bottom line for everyone.
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wybhroots.
It's easy to be associated with other groups. It's always negative. That's one reason I never refer to anyone with the FSW as "freestaters". That term is not a positive one due to connotations with other groups, like those in ID that you mentioned. Actually, the original "freestaters" were those who moved to Kansas in opposition to slavery. The term is overused.
Even today I don't say "I'm a member of the FSW", but rather, "I know several people who value their freedom and have also moved to WY."
But don't let others deter you. Besides, it's not like we're a close band of fringe people flashing the "secret sign" at secret meetings deep in the woods. We are quite open. Nothing to hide, but it's best to avoid scuttlebutt amongst the rest of the locals out here. That's why I posted what I did on the "Amish" thread.
Mac
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I never mentioned FSW as a reason for my move; as it was not THE reason. Though it certainly was an impetus.
Family and friends were quite surprised, however, as it was 'odd' for a woman to move 2000 miles by herself where she really knew no one (yet). Especially odd to them since I had only visited twice before moving. My mother thought I was joking.
I just told them I was tired of being nannied and taxed to death by my home state and desired to live somewhere with less nanny-ism and with like-minded folks who value freedom.
Interestingly, my male friends were jealous; my female friends were horrified. "Why don't you move someplace I actually want to visit" was one reaction. :D
Anyway, your reasons are your own. If they can't accept that, then it just reinforces the reasons you're leaving in the first place.
Best of luck,
Kelly
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You ar absolutely correct on that Mac. Right after I moved back to WY, there was an article puclished in the local weekly paper about FSW. Some locals were upset, thought a cult was moving in to take over. That is how I came to join the forum. I wanted to learn and did, and put some minds to ease. You are absolutely correct, in that naming a group, could make them unwelcome, and a target.
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Uh, there is no cult. This (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneesh_movement) is a cult.
Maybe we should start calling the FSW founder "Bhagwan T. Party." :)
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None of you know the secret hand signal and shake? :o :o :o
>:D >:D >:D
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I know the secret hand signal, but I usually reserve it for politicians and the guys who drive the cars with the lights on top.
Tex
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I know the secret hand signal, but I usually reserve it for politicians and the guys who drive the cars with the lights on top.
Tex
Exactly!
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None of you know the secret hand signal and shake?
I am still trying to figure out how to use the three shells.
("Demolition Man" reference...)
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My folks cautioned me about moving away from systems of support, namely family and church, and also warned me about associating with "anti-government types". I hate to say it, but many in my family are quite statist. My pastor has stated his belief that he is planted in his current location, inferring that I am also. While I respect the opinions of those who disagree with the idea of moving to Wyoming, I'm still evaluating whether God is indeed inspiring a redoubt to the mountain region and is calling me to be part of it. I'm planning to visit the northeast part of the state again this spring or summer to check out the job and real estate markets and find a Reformed church or fellowship where I may worship.
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It seems to me that if you're drawn to a certain place and you end up there, then that's where you're "supposed" to be. Conversely, It's entirely possible to find that the place you've always been isn't where you really belong. Only you know the right answer for you. The opinions of family and friends are good to consider, but those people don't have to live in your shoes, and they can't take into consideration everything that's important to you. Ultimately, only YOU can decide what's right for you.
I do find the "don't associate with anti-government types" advice humorous, as if people who want less government intrusion in their lives are inherently subversive or wrong. I'd argue that the opposite is true, that anyone who's ok with ceding individual liberty to the government is subversive to individual liberty. It doesn't mean I'm "anti-government", it means that I am pro-individual-liberty. That's what our country was founded on! And as for the "cult" reference, look how backwards things have become, to suggest that people seeking FREEDOM are strange and "cult-like". I find it reassuring that there are like-minded people who are heading towards parts of the country that are amenable to individual liberty, I look forward to making friends with like-minded people, but I certainly don't see any group-mentality going on. People who value individual liberty also tend to value independence, not collectivism.
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Adding to what Brownhouse said,
Just look how the MSM has treated the Tea Party. Sure, some wore funny clothing to mimic the period, but their main impetus was LESS government, LESS taxes, LESS regulation, LESS spending, LESS debt, more FREEDOM.
Since it was a movement and not a "party" there were of course wide variations, but the general concept, I believe, was as I stated above.
But how did the media and general public react? Much as Brownhouse stated. Are you crazy? Less government? Are you crazy? Less taxes? It seems that more regulation is welcomed by the great majority of the people, but the opposite is suspect.
The government and MSM is doing a great job at perpetuating this divide, and continue to consider such people as "the fringe".
The Occupy Movement, on the other hand, seemed much more accepted by the MSM even with their violence and demands for more spending.
Mac
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Uh, there is no cult. This (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneesh_movement) is a cult.
Maybe we should start calling the FSW founder "Bhagwan T. Party." :)
Do we get spiffy hats with that?
;)
Kelly
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Absolutely right, Manfromnevada, typical liberal causes always get traction, because the MSM agrees with them and pushes them. They're also always packaged very nicely, and compared to an intentionally-negative representation of the conservative viewpoint. Plus conservatives by their very nature tend to be less outspoken and more interested in their LIBERTY than organizing for their CAUSE. When you have outspoken propagandists fighting an anti-liberty cause, and you have liberty-minded people minding their own business, just wanting to live and let live, who wins?
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My folks cautioned me about moving away from systems of support, namely family and church, and also warned me about associating with "anti-government types". I hate to say it, but many in my family are quite statist. My pastor has stated his belief that he is planted in his current location, inferring that I am also. While I respect the opinions of those who disagree with the idea of moving to Wyoming, I'm still evaluating whether God is indeed inspiring a redoubt to the mountain region and is calling me to be part of it. I'm planning to visit the northeast part of the state again this spring or summer to check out the job and real estate markets and find a Reformed church or fellowship where I may worship.
You've probably already seen these but this is a good place to post them, anyway:
Reformed Churches in The American Redoubt States:
http://www.survivalblog.com/redoubt.html
If they're part of your systems of support then that implies that you're
part of there's, too. Perhaps reporting back your findings after taking that
summer trip would be of interest to them.
Zero mobility is not Christian doctrine though it's understandable that most of a local
church would not be inclined to move. Still, is there a downside to knowing where
one might go if ever led to leave? That seems like a good way to put it to a local church.
Terence
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Also, we have not shared many details to our family or friends, except for a select few that are aware of what's happening in the world.....basically those that haven't drank the "kool-aid".
What plans do your select few have? They're the only ones whose opinion
matters, right?
When it comes to life I prefer being more like a thermostat than a thermometer.
Why take the temperature when you can make it?
Terence
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None of you know the secret hand signal and shake?
I am still trying to figure out how to use the three shells.
("Demolition Man" reference...)
I never did get that. :(
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Do we get spiffy hats with that?
Need to work on that. I can't get the tin foil to stick to my knit caps very well. :)
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Thanks for all the replies : )
Yes! Yes! and Yes! I agree with all of the statements about why move near like-minded individuals.
I hesitated on using the word "cult" because I know the FSW is not about that at all. Heck, the church affiliation I grew up could be called a cult as well----so I'm aware of how ridiculous that sounds. Not to mention our political beliefs....in wanting freedom and the constitutions to be upheld----how dare I think such things! I must not know what tolerance means or I'm a big meany. I chose to use the terms I hear and read, to make a point of how stupid words like "cult" come across.
Of course the decision where to move and live is ultimately ours. I'm still baffled as to why like-minded friends would put us down for wanting the same freedoms they are striving for. We are NOT joining a cult and we'd probably move to a rural area in MN anyhow.....this just means our move would be to a different state. A state with more freedom. I'm thinking it may have more to do with us moving further away from our two friends. But we rarely see them in person as it is (hour drive away).
As for the plans for family/friends who "get it": a brother wants to live in Texas (warmer climate) but will most likely stay in the city (cost to move, kids here, etc.), another brother is already in Texas, two friends mentioned above are going to stay in Mpls suburbs until SHTF then they will retreat to Northern MN. And want us to follow suit with them. We have no desire to live up on the iron range with more liberals.
As for the rest of our family, all they know is we are looking for land in Wyoming. Most of the reaction (even moving within MN to rural area) is to make sure you find a good church (whatever that means) and get plugged into that church. That's the core and only big issue my family has.
We also agree in not mentioning FSW unless the opportunity arises. Wyoming was on our radar long before the FSW was around, we're just happy to see how many others are like us : )
~Amy
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"Why don't you move someplace I actually want to visit" was one reaction. :D
HA! Kelly, Love it :D
That statement is exactly why we WOULD move to a place like Wyoming----so no one would visit us!
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"Why don't you move someplace I actually want to visit" was one reaction. :D
HA! Kelly, Love it :D
That statement is exactly why we WOULD move to a place like Wyoming----so no one would visit us!
No one except people who want to see YOU rather than wanting a local tour guide. ;D
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Thanks Terence for the Rawles website. Very informative. But, it didn't show any Reformed /Calvinist churches in NE Wyoming. Does anybody know of any in either Crook, Weston, or even Niobrara counties? I did find a PCA church in Gillette and one across the border in Spearfish. Also, found a RPUS church in Casper, but again, my primary focus is the east/NE region of the state.
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NiteRider, I'm not sure what a "Reformed" church is anymore, as I've seen people describe Calvary Chapels as "Reformed" churches!
If there is a particular denomination (or denominations) you would categorize that way, try doing a web search for that denomination. Many of them have lists of locations of their congregations, often searchable.
Also, you might find more "community" type churches in rural and semi-rural areas like those you are looking at. Often, a generic independent community church will serve those with a wide range of backgrounds, rather than a bunch of tiny churches with very specific denominations. The community church will probably be fairly small as it is, and draw from a wide area around its location. The pastor there will likely be a bi-vocational pastor, perhaps working as a rancher and a pastor, or a teacher and a pastor, or an oilman and a pastor (etc.)
Small towns and rural areas just don't generally have the variety of specific denominations that a more populated area would have.
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In my experience here, a good many community type churches here are affiliated with the Southern Baptists. Just so you are aware. :)
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I guess because I was raised in mostly baptist churches, I don't find that a problem. ;)
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Thanks 300D and ML.
Yep, I searched the denomination websites, but again, found a Presbyterian Church in America in only Gillette and Spearfish. There may be a start-up Reformed fellowship of a dozen members meeting in a rented basement that has no website, yet. I'm open to that if anyone knows of such a group.
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I suppose the congregations in Gillette and/or Spearfish might know of something also? You could try calling or emailing them, if you have contact information for them.
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I guess because I was raised in mostly baptist churches, I don't find that a problem. ;)
Didn't at all mean to indicate that as a problem. It's just a fact. I can't imagine that community churches wouldn't be affiliated with some denomination or another, rather than being completely independent.That truly independent sort was what I was looking for, and so far have not found.
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I don't know - they might be "baptist" but independent. There are a lot of those around, too.
Years ago, my then-husband (now long-time ex) worked for one of those small, independent churches, in a rural area in Montana. It didn't belong to any denomination at all but was sortof-mostly-kinda baptist. Kind of a lot of things, really. Just a generic Christian church. That part was, frankly, rather refreshing! The denominations agree on a lot more than they disagree about, and just preaching on those areas keeps a pastor plenty busy. :)
Also, you might check to see if there are any online sermons or bible studies from the type of church you are looking for. You could get involved with a local church for the fellowship and friendships, and listen to a bible study or sermon online on the side. (I know that Calvary Chapels and Mars Hills churches stream their sermons - and many other churches with websites do also, or at least they post the audio online.)
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I don't know - they might be "baptist" but independent. There are a lot of those around, too.
Thanks. :) I have a great respect for creator based spirituality, but have no more use for organized religion (after most of a lifetime as a Catholic). Not too many compatible folks around, but I keep looking. :)
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The topic of this thread makes me think someone creative could do a good "Hitler Reacts To..." vid on this.
There is a site where you can make your own, here:
http://downfall.jfedor.org/create/
http://downfall.jfedor.org/create/ (http://downfall.jfedor.org/create/)
I could only think of a few funny lines...my creative gene only stretches so far...
Have fun!
Kelly
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When I gave notice at work before the move out here, most people were jealous that they were encumbered so much that it was an impossibility. They were sincerely happy for me. Other's (just a few) asked me if I was moving onto a compound, half joking. It was tough to leave family behind and hear the horror stories that took place during Hurricane Sandy. Tougher still to see the draconian laws passed in the state where I used to reside in the wake what happened in Connecticut. Those that love us most want us to be happy more than anything else, or at least they should.
My closest family members' well being is my primary concern. We have a much better life here. We can afford a nice home on one salary. I have more in common with any of my neighbors here than I did with very close friends where I used to live.
A prominent prepper that I met on a different forum nearly 5 years ago gave me some great advice when I posted how I was "regularly shocking" my neighbors because of my life style (year round camping, prepping, making my own things) and hobbies (shooting.) He advised me that during a time of crisis they (those shocked neighbors) would be no help whatsoever and they would, in fact, be a liability. His having said that ratcheted up my anxiety several notches, but he put a fire in my soul. It was that perfect moment of clarity. Coming out here for a visit and meeting a few of you awesome folks convinced us that WY was where we needed to be. I can't imagine living anywhere else.
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I'm hoping to get rid of most of my liability (mortgage) this summer. The rest (my daughter's school loans (Parent Loans)) I'll still have to pay off but they are small in comparison.
Still, yeah, I can't just give notice and move. There are things I have to take care of first (including trying to sell a bunch of possessions for cash).
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My closest family members' well being is my primary concern. We have a much better life here. We can afford a nice home on one salary. I have more in common with any of my neighbors here than I did with very close friends where I used to live.
A prominent prepper that I met on a different forum nearly 5 years ago gave me some great advice when I posted how I was "regularly shocking" my neighbors because of my life style (year round camping, prepping, making my own things) and hobbies (shooting.) He advised me that during a time of crisis they (those shocked neighbors) would be no help whatsoever and they would, in fact, be a liability. His having said that ratcheted up my anxiety several notches, but he put a fire in my soul. It was that perfect moment of clarity. Coming out here for a visit and meeting a few of you awesome folks convinced us that WY was where we needed to be. I can't imagine living anywhere else.
bhowell,
Thank-you for the comments. I feel the same way. Especially with being a prepper and feeling like the odd ball around here. You are so right....when a disaster strikes or SHTF.....I'd rather be around others that are prepared (or no one at all).
I'm still concerned about living in the rural though. I've always wanted to and felt more drawn to such places, but haven't lived in the country yet. The solitude, owning many acres, and above all else freedom are what we are looking for. However, how do you deal with the loneliness and distance?
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Still, yeah, I can't just give notice and move. There are things I have to take care of first
We are in the same boat here too. We'll get to Wyoming as fast as we can :)
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My closest family members' well being is my primary concern. We have a much better life here. We can afford a nice home on one salary. I have more in common with any of my neighbors here than I did with very close friends where I used to live.
A prominent prepper that I met on a different forum nearly 5 years ago gave me some great advice when I posted how I was "regularly shocking" my neighbors because of my life style (year round camping, prepping, making my own things) and hobbies (shooting.) He advised me that during a time of crisis they (those shocked neighbors) would be no help whatsoever and they would, in fact, be a liability. His having said that ratcheted up my anxiety several notches, but he put a fire in my soul. It was that perfect moment of clarity. Coming out here for a visit and meeting a few of you awesome folks convinced us that WY was where we needed to be. I can't imagine living anywhere else.
bhowell,
Thank-you for the comments. I feel the same way. Especially with being a prepper and feeling like the odd ball around here. You are so right....when a disaster strikes or SHTF.....I'd rather be around others that are prepared (or no one at all).
I'm still concerned about living in the rural though. I've always wanted to and felt more drawn to such places, but haven't lived in the country yet. The solitude, owning many acres, and above all else freedom are what we are looking for. However, how do you deal with the loneliness and distance?
I've lived in a rural area before. In this case, that winter, there was only one neighbor within about five miles. We visited once or twice, maybe, but that was it. However, I worked in town (a town of 2,000), so saw a handful of people most days. Usually had lunch at a nearby cafe or the local high school's cafeteria, so I'd see more people there. Church (of around 75 people) every Sunday. Radio in the evenings (we didn't have a t.v., and my then-husband was usually working in the evenings), or I'd play the piano or read, between times of loading the wood stove or splitting wood. It wasn't really that lonely. There was solitude at times...but not loneliness, per se.
As to distance? It's like anywhere in the west. Get on the road and go! You'll be there within an hour, probably. Not much different than my commute now, just at a faster speed.
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FSW is simply one of the tools to be utilized to help make a move. What you choose to do with that tool is entirely up to you and impacts what you'll get out of it. Can't get much more libertarian than that! FSW was not a 'reason' for us to move. We had already made up our mind, it was just a matter of where.
It can be quite difficult to cut ties with longtime friends and some relatives. Sometimes jobs with decent pensions can be roadblocks (depending on the state/company of course). As the divide between critical thinkers and sheep widens, deciding to pull up stakes gets easier and easier.
Time is growing short. With the path we are on nationally, I can foresee the day when travel will be much more complicated, if not restricted by region or even entirely. Trial runs have been made in SoCal, TN and border states. DHS/TSA/ICE has now proclaimed the BoR is no longer effectively in force not just 30m from the border, but 100m since they claim the right to ignore RAS and seach/question at will. How long will it be before it's the entire country?
wybhroots, if you don't decide to replant in WY, be sure to get West of the Missouri R and north of Colorado. If you're Mormon, Utah may be a good choice. But don't stray to far West. I have friends and relatives East of the Cascades/Sierra Nevada's and it's truly the land of fruits and nuts. Sure, there are some good people there, but they have diminishing say-so in how the places are run. It's lost to the statists.
To Add: Does it really matter what others think about you moving? You are the sole determiner of what is best for you (aside from any spiritual considerations) and the one that has to take the ultimate responsibility, so do what you have to do as soon as you can put it together.
Also, I don't buy the argument that independent types would all be lumped together and easier to 'deal with'. If the balloon goes up, especially in a big way, the PTB will have their hands full with the many metropolis's coming unglued and won't have the manpower to spare. I think you'll find we'll actually be ignored on about all fronts. There are many reasons why and is a topic for another day. If I'm wrong, I'd rather be wrong in WY than somewhere else. ;)
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If I'm wrong, I'd rather be wrong in WY than somewhere else. ;)
AMEN!
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If all goes well...we might be there in a year or a little less. (Or at least one of those "west of the Mississippi/north of Colorado" places well east of the Cascades.)
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Thanks for your input bobcat.
You are certainly correct....it is up to us and it really doesn't matter what other people say about our decisions. Where ever do we end up moving to, it WILL be further west than MN (where we are now).
This journey continues to be a lonely road, but it's worth it to be free.
300dragonflies:
That's great news :)
And regarding your earlier post.....we like to drive, so no big issues there. Many times we will drive 2 hours one way to visit some someone and then drive back the same day. It's also a way we get to learn other roads/routes and enjoy the scenery.
I'm still optimistic the solitude will be a good thing. We even search it out where we live now (large city), it's just nice once in a while to connect with other people.
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My closest family members' well being is my primary concern. We have a much better life here. We can afford a nice home on one salary. I have more in common with any of my neighbors here than I did with very close friends where I used to live.
A prominent prepper that I met on a different forum nearly 5 years ago gave me some great advice when I posted how I was "regularly shocking" my neighbors because of my life style (year round camping, prepping, making my own things) and hobbies (shooting.) He advised me that during a time of crisis they (those shocked neighbors) would be no help whatsoever and they would, in fact, be a liability. His having said that ratcheted up my anxiety several notches, but he put a fire in my soul. It was that perfect moment of clarity. Coming out here for a visit and meeting a few of you awesome folks convinced us that WY was where we needed to be. I can't imagine living anywhere else.
bhowell,
Thank-you for the comments. I feel the same way. Especially with being a prepper and feeling like the odd ball around here. You are so right....when a disaster strikes or SHTF.....I'd rather be around others that are prepared (or no one at all).
I'm still concerned about living in the rural though. I've always wanted to and felt more drawn to such places, but haven't lived in the country yet. The solitude, owning many acres, and above all else freedom are what we are looking for. However, how do you deal with the loneliness and distance?
You are welcome wybhroots.
Fortunately I don't get lonely here because I am with my closest family members. If I was ever close to feeling lonely it would be more like bored, which only happened once when I was here. I have a shelf of books I'd love to tear through if I had the time. There's a lot of work that needs to be on the house as well. Of course if I were a single man, I'd have to admit Wyoming may be a bit tough though. Distance isn't that bad when you drive really fast. Safe but fast.
Good Luck!
B