Free State Wyoming Forum
Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Topic started by: freewyo on July 29, 2007, 06:08:47 PM
-
I am deeply disturbed by the changes in our state. People who truly love open space, freedom and an uncluttered unpreturbed way of life do not build in the open places they so cherish. Once everyone has built their little ranchette on 40 acres in the name of freedom, all that will be left will be, well, oil and gas wells and little teeny ranchettes.
As a hunter and fisherman, I am bothered by the changes I see. People from out of state disrespect our way of life. They build a house and put up fences, then yak away in the grocery line on their cell phones! People who love the mountains don't live there.... They enjoy them and then leave them as they found them. They we respect wildlife (i.e. no building fences, duh, antelope!), they don't build roads (it only spreads invasive weeds which are BAD for ranchers and wildlife), and they live off the grid..... Or better yet, live in town. It costs taxpayers a lot of money to maintain those remote county roads. I have a bad feeling that all the people moving into this state, in what were once 'remote' areas are going to force a state income tax on us.
I'm a registered Republican, a conservative and that's what I like to see, us CONSERVE our heritage and protect it from other invasives - people.
Stay home people and please work to fix your own state please before ruining ours.
-
Ah, so you're the one who had the bumper sticker, "My Wyoming has an East Infection"....
You are correct in that a growing population is hard on the environment. It is sad. I appreciate- and understand- your concern, but don't you dare lump all non- native Wyomingites into the same category!!!
Though I come from a state ruled by Democrats, the Wisconsin Republicans are very exclusive: i.e., "You people don't belong in this group/ club/ area, etc.", much like the attidue you have displayed here, sir. Wyoming is the "Equality State", not a "members only" state. It was the first state to grant equal rights to women (including women who move here From Away). This state has balanced industry and growth with nature (though perhaps it could be better!) since John Colter crossed into this area in 1807.
Are you saying that native residents don't use cell phones, don't throw trash in the rivers, and don't build fences?
While I shall always be an Irish gal from Wisconsin (a place, I might add, where Izaak Walton chapters do lots of work to educate about, maintain and conserve the environment; we have disrespect for nature there, too), I consider Wyoming my home: never have I encountered people so friendly and welcoming.
As angry as your all- inclusive post has made me, I support your right to say what you want, as loudly as you want. But keep in mind this is a forum for freedom- lovers, not freedom- haters.
For the record, I am conservative libertarian; I am a single mother who has never been on welfare; I worked fulltime while going to college and raising my children on my own; I am a United States veteran; my children are active in church and conservation programs; we all appreciate hunting and love fishing; we carry trash bags with us while on nature walks.
And for the record, sir, I also intend to build a house and put up a very large fence to keep people with your attitude away from my children.
-
Wow, well I am planning on living off the grid as soon as I can, and I hate taxes. So what does that make me?
-
And I'm going to build an underground home in a wide open space. You'll never even know I'm there...except for the regular sound of gunfire! ;D
-
Freewyo has some valid concerns. People often do turn a beautiful landscape into an eyesore with their McMansions and what not. And I think it is valid to try to persuade people to be a little more conscientious and considerate of their neighbors.
I agree that people should consider living in town. Wyoming towns are not like Los Angeles or Detroit. :)
Part of his concerns would be addressed if people who do not want to live in towns just keep this "code of the west" (http://www.co.larimer.co.us/planning/planning/code_of_the_west/index.htm) in mind.
But saying this is just silly:
Stay home people and please work to fix your own state please before ruining ours.
People can move where the hell they want to move. Usually they move to a place that already mirrors their values.
And saying this, in our forum of all places, is even sillier:
I have a bad feeling that all the people moving into this state, in what were once 'remote' areas are going to force a state income tax on us.
Freewyo, you are going to have to look awful hard in this forum to find anyone who wants an income tax in Wyoming. We are the ones who are going to help stop such nonsense.
-
I know he or she can't be talking about me - we certainly didn't get 40 acres and I don't have a cell phone :D
Some of the main reasons we moved here are the beauty of the state and the fact that there's no state income tax, and the freedom! We don't want to change it. We moved to get away from Tax Hike Mike in NC, the smog, etc.
We've been disgusted by the swooping in of some liberals from CA (and other states) who can make a big profit on their over valued homes and they come out here to buy ranches and then sell off all the equipment and then just live on a huge piece of land without working the land, no grazing, no farming. Of course, I believe that a lot of the property in WY is over valued by the local real estate agents. Sorry to get off topic there but a pet peeve.
Please get to know us, read what is written here, etc. before you make those assumptions! 8)
-
Dear Friends,
This thread, and another much like it, started by newbie "freewyo" is interesting. Frankly, I wish this Republican person would review some of the threads on this forum, to see how much agreement is here for the same basic values.
One of the reasons people in Wyoming have lots of open space, and a few thousand newcomers aren't going to change that fact, is the very large percentage of Wyoming land that is national park, national forest, bureau of land management land, state park, or other "public" land. It is not sensible to suppose that everyone is going to want 40 acres (and a mule?) let alone build on that acreage and fence it off. But, even if so, there would continue to be a vast majority of all acreage in Wyoming that was "public" land, and cannot be built upon. (I am commenting here on what is observably true of Wyoming, not suggesting it is "best.")
Mind you, when someone buys land, that person has a property right in that land. It is ignorant and foolish, not to mention hateful and vicious, to tell other people how to use their land. If someone were to steal 40 acres and build a ranchette house and fence it, that would be wrong, of course. But what is wrong with someone who buys 40 acres doing as he pleases with his land? Why shouldn't he be entitled to whatever home and whatever fencing he pleases? Just what sort of property values are being conserved by mandating what other people may and may not do with their property? If this person really is a Republican, he seems to be more in the vein of a big government Republican - a neo-conservative wanting to run other people's lives.
The admonition to "stay home" is interesting. As Paul notes, I'll go where I please. It is supposed to be a free country. I'll buy property where I please (and through such structures as trusts, corporations, and the like as seem to me most likely to affect my prosperity and happiness). I'll build what I like. Talk on my cell phone if I like.
And if you don't like it, "freewyo" then you can mind your own business. What I do with my life and my property is not your concern.
Regards,
Jim
-
After thinking about this for more than a few seconds I have decided to respond and give some insight since I am one of "those" that have moved to this wonderful state recently.
1.? I did not buy 40 acres--we bought a house with a couple of acres in a very small incorporated town that was established long before we even decided to move.?
2. Some of the most hateful and intolerant people we have met are from Wyoming--they are also the ones that want to fence everything and everyone out.? I am, however, extremely delighted in the fact that these meetings have been few and far between for this type of person.
3. The fencing I have seen on the big ranches has that cattle panel pattern(I think it is field fencing) I've seen a baby antelope caught in it and I have watched fawn run back and forth frantically while mom has jumped the fence.
4.? People are going to move--that is just a given at least until the JBT decide to institute the National ID and regulate interstate traffic.? I think I would rather have someone move here that would like to live away from it all than have someone who moves here expecting to live as if it were a 'gated community'.
5.? I am offended that there is such an attitude of "stay away because you couldn't possibly contribute any good to this state".? Maybe you, Freewyo, should concentrate your effort on admonishing the welfare recipients or the meth users or the drug runners or the...........but wait they are not coherent enought to have a website and a coordinated effort. Oh and you probably could not hold an intelligent conversation with many of them.? They have a greater potential for causing the initiation of a state tax than myself and fellow FSW'ers.
6. Are US citizens from other states of such a great threat? Do you harbor these same feelings towards illegal aliens who are invading "your" state?
Brandy ~W~
-
Being from Wyo I can confess to many of the same thoughts over the years. I also claim to be a conservative Replubican and will probably lean that way til death. However, politics have never been a prerequisitse to making a life a Wyo. I don't know how many here have been following the blog comments in response to the story about FSW in the Star, but I can assure you from those at work that read the article that the attitudes are formed by ignorance. I've said it before and gotten into some bitter discussion, but there is a definate PR issue to overcome. Until this is corrected, I fear that many attitudes will never change. Unfortunate as this is, it is true. Saying that it is none of your business is not a valid argument. That is just not how Wyoming works. If that is how someone truely feels, then I must agree that they would be better off staying home. Reach out, don't offend. Paul
-
This is a great thread for a variety of reasons - FreeWYO addresses a valid concern for ANYONE who is concerned that their communities lifestyle and way of life are going to be turned upside down by outsiders with no regard for 'how things are'. Hold on - don't ya'll click that mouse button yet...
A little story about some things that have happened around here (in VA).
There is a large, man made lake that was surrounded by farms, mobile home communities and rv / camper communities. Very laid back. Farms that were in the same family for generations - way before the lake. 2 lane roads. NO stop lights in most counties surrounding the area. Country schools. Country values. People just 'got along' and minded their own business. The lake itself was a government imposed blight... but after a few decades, the fishin' got good so most 'good ol' boys' were willing to forgive the 'gubbmint' for stealing 'Uncle Henry's farm'.
Fast forward a few more decades: 'Yankees' discover the area.
They discovered cheap land, waterfront property, and an escape from the high crime, crappy urban environment they were in 'up north'. The only thing they didn't like about country life was, in fact; our country life.
Gravel roads got their Mercedes dirty... so WE "needed" to pave them. There were no shopping malls. so WE "needed" a strip mall. No airport? WE "need" a small airport built. Well, by golly - they also began to demand convenience stores, more shopping areas, SEVERAL golf courses and that poor lake... where you once could catch your limit (and then some!) of bass, crappie & big ol' catfish... Well now, IF you can dodge the jet-skis and ski-boats then I wish you luck finding an inch of shoreline not rip-rapped or monitored by the new sheriff's department boats. Heck - we even have the Coast Guard Aux here now! ( :o Yes, on a lake 5 hours from the ocean!) And there are even 'trash barges' running full time now to clean up the crap that fishermen & tourists throw out into the lake. Guess who pays for that?... or has to move out for the newcomers.
Once they discovered us "unsophisticated, country hicks" (that's folk like me...), the Yankees promptly scooped up as much land as they could get and by concentrating their numbers in a particular area they essentially (along with their influx of $$$) 'took over' the area and it's government. (Expanded to a state level... does that idea sound familiar to FSW'rs?) That's something to think about, folks. If it ain't broke - don't fix it.
Keep in mind that the majority of the 'Yankees' here are fairly nice and DO want a better life for their families than what they left behind. BUT...
Today, the RV / cabin communities are gone. State campgrounds and a few KOA overnighter parks are it unless you OWN some land there.
The mobile home communities are gone, replaced with 1/4 acre lots with McMansions.
The elderly folk that were still living in the last mobile home community there a few years back? Gone now. Who knows where they ended up. Many held on as long as they could to their lake trailers which were (in some cases) there since the 50's.
Big farms? Gone. Replaced by $million dollar ++++ mansions & condos that surround all the readily accessible shore line not taken by McDevelopments.
No property taxes were replaced with both high property & real estate taxes going through the roof.
Old family farms are broken up and sold off by families who can't afford to farm the family land... and frankly, who'd want a snotty punk from 'up north' moving in next door and then whining about the smell from the hog pen anyway? (Miraculously - they couldn't smell them hogs for the entire 6 months it took to build their McMansion...)
Add in the meth labs moving in, add additional 'law enforcement', add public utilities jacking property taxes... well - I think this is exactly what FreeWYO is concerned about.
I believe I understand exactly where FreeWYO (the original poster) is coming from and what his concerns are. If I understood his / her post correctly: it's all about people FLEEING a place / lifestyle that no longer suits them, that was bad for them and was too expensive (monetarily / freedom-wise) for them... BUT once they found a 'haven' (in our case: Wyoming) to go to... the "invaders" promptly begin to construct a CLONE OF THE VERY PLACE THEY FLED.
That's where the resentment comes from folks... I'd wager you that FreeWYO is just concerned that 'people like us' will destroy what he treasures... and what he treasures is what makes Wyoming... Wyoming. Frankly - it concerns me too. I've seen it happen here.
Hope no one takes this personally but it needed to be said - I'm not trying to come across one way or the other - I'm just recounting a personal view of local experiences and hearing a lot of that echoed in FreeWYO's words. If ya got pissed off reading this - it wasn't intentional... but I'm also not sorry. ;D It's just a real world concern that you ARE going to bump into when relocating to ANY area. Change is inevitable... but being perceived as the chief motivator of change AND being from 'outside' IS going to cause friction.
The best way to become a resident of an area is to quietly be there 5 years before anyone even realizes ya are there... and by that time, you'll almost be "one of them". ;) LEARN THE LOCAL WAY OF LIFE BEFORE YA TRY TO "EDUCATE" THE LOCALS. (They might actually have a clue about how they wanna live their lifes without ya! ;) )
Remember that outsiders ARE outsiders to 'the locals' of ANY community. To become a part of that community... well, you need to leave your baggage on the bus. Throw away the nikes and put on some good work boots, don't gripe about the gravel roads, don't whine about having to drive 30 minutes to the store, and for goodness sakes don't even think about building a 7-11 / theatre / WalBoxStorestripmall. Enjoy the lake, or Wyoming, AS IT IS... and the friendly folk will, once they get to know ya, welcome you. Or, screw with tradition and end up in a long term pissing match where no one wins, or worse: and the very thing FSW'rs are seeking will be lost forever.
Just a thought or twelve - take it fer whut it's werth. (Sorry - that's the only way I know to type in a southern accent. :D )
-
Staying home ??? ?I am home. ?I live here. ?I was free to come here. ?For whatever reason I deemed......pick your adjective. ?In fact, though it's a stretch, I can imagine not being free to come here, in which case I would have come anyway. ?I'm not here by accident of birth, I'm here because I chose it.
Stay home people and please work to fix your own state please before ruining ours.
This is truly disgusting. ?It's repulsive. ?It's offensive. ?Do not tell me what to do. ?Fortunately, you are a tiny minority. ?I have not had the misfortune to encounter and converse in person with anyone at all as unpleasant and unwelcoming as yourself.
While I typed the above, lunghd made his post.? And I think I understand.? But I really can't stand anyone telling me to do anything.? It raises a fury in me.? It also bothers me considerably to be painted as "people... (that) are going to force a state income tax on us"? ?What??? I wouldn't pay any tax if it weren't for the government's employ of force!!!? Sheesh.
-
lunghd,
Smith Mountain Lake by chance? :o
On the point, I do understand some of what is being aired in this thread. I too live in an area that is greatly changed since I was a young 'un. :) (More than tripled in size in 30 years - Research Triangle Park / Raleigh NC area.)
I too have seen folks come in and change things, all the while telling me not to complain since "you don't have a traffic problem, you should have seen it where I came from" all the while being oblivious to the fact that THEY are my traffic problem.....
Hence I'm sensitive to current WY residents' concerns. I don't want to be an outsider coming in, I want to be a good neighbor finding the right place to be. Even so, I'll have to be careful not to bring external things best left where they came from.
On the other hand, I recall warmly Biathlon's statement at the last Jam, where he stated something like "heck, I want you folks to move here to WY because of the way you think, I want you to come here and make it an even better place." (Norm, my apologies if I didn't remember the gist or if you feel misquoted.)
Anyway, I agree that the tone of freewyo is lacking, but his smoke does emanate from true fires. I'll do my utmost to be cognizant of that and not miss the message for the messenger.
-
Atlas Shrug: Yup. SML. Home of more New Jersey plates than New Jersey itself! ;D
-
Let's all chill. ?The original poster was provactive, but wrong in many ways. We've risen to the bait.
?
Think about this, and soothe yourselves: ?at the VA hospital in Sheridan, they have a lot of pictures and such on the walls. ?One of them, is a writing from quite a while ago, maybe from 1914 IIRC: which ends with ?"God bless Wyoming, and keep it wild."
?
I don't think that many of us are far from that writer's hope.
?
Let's keep our eye on the ball.? There's ignorant people everywhere.
-
freewyo, I wish that you had first learned what we are all about before you posted.
I would advise this for anybody wishing to comment about the FSW.
Regards,
Boston
-
I hope FreeWYO will post back again.
We have to differentiate ourselves from those moving from other areas who WANT to change Wyoming. I also know what it's like first hand to be in a local store (here) and hear more voices speaking Spanish than English... Our way of life is changing nationwide and let's face it - FreeWYO lives in one of the last refuges & is sweatin' bullets that we'll drag our trash there with us. Frankly, I'd be pissed too - until shown otherwise.
Regardless of how we 'take' the attitude used to express his words - the post was a good one because it raises concerns expressed by current residents. (Concerns I heard voiced outside the FSW Jam this year.) People living the lifestyle we admire don't SEE themselves from the outside as we see them - and we don't see ourselves as they see us.
Our challenge is to do just what Boston suggests plus remember that what we say, and do, IS being watched and interpreted through the eyes of those defending their current lifestyle.
My WY challenge is to live in such a way that 5 years later they can't recall when I didn't live there... :)
-
Amen lunghd.
I suspect that part of the issue that irritated folks with the manner freewyo expressed himself, was due to not understanding basic forum etiquette (for example he made multiple versions of the same post, or not looking through the forum before posting). I'm guessing he read that CST article and decided to come here and make his very first post ever, on any forum. Yeah, maybe he should have known better, but I'll bet most of us have screwed up as internet newbies at one time or another. :)
-
I hope FreeWYO will post back again.
Unfortunately, it was probably a hit-and-run.
We have to differentiate ourselves from those moving from other areas who WANT to change Wyoming.
We DO want to change Wyoming! This "we just want to keep Wyoming the way it is" or "we want to make Wyoming even more like Wyoming" makes great rhetoric, but it is not the truth! We want to change Wyoming, dramatically. I want to change Wyoming, dramatically. Actually, I would be happy just changing one county. But I definitely want change. Change is the main point of what we're doing.
We just want change in the opposite direction than what you are worried about, freewyo. We want to scrap the sales tax, not add an income tax! We certainly don't want taxpayers forced to pay to build and maintain a bunch of new roads -- rather, we'd like to stop forcing them to pay for even the roads that are already there. We want the government to divest itself from its road monopoly and for roads to be paid for instead by voluntary means. We want to eliminate 90-100% of government functions and 99-100% of the government budget.
We don't like taxes. We don't like oppressive government. We like freedom. We want more of it.
-
I agree, John.
I AM "home." I live in Wyoming. I want only more freedom, less (no) government, and no involuntary anything.
My neighbors here have welcomed me with open arms. The only negative reactions have been from people who never met me and made assumptions based on their own bias. (Sundance paper for one.)
One mistake a lot of these people seem to make is the assumption that everyone from out of state comes from a big city and has lots of money.
The nervous nellies here need to make the effort to get to know us before they make up their minds.
-
Sorry John, I still see it from FreeWyo's perspective. And when I say I want Wyoming to stay just like it is... I mean it. (I'm not talking about the usual political 'rah rah' chants here - I'm talking LIFESTYLE and VALUES.) Now if you were going there to reinforce their mindset and stand side by side with their values... then I'm with ya! (It's tough to get across what I'm trying to say - I think we're arguing two sides of the same coin & not that far apart...)
ML - I have a feeling you did what I'd do... Quietly move in, just be nice, get to know some people & not try to 'fix' the community. (Especially before the moving van is outta the driveway.) Activism and involvement is good and USUALLY welcome around here... so long as it's oriented toward the community's goals and not some imported goal. I also think wrasslin' that deer scored you instant celebrity status that would make you a local legend in ANY area! ;D (That was you, wasn't it? )
--------------------
I agree with a previous post in that FreeWyo's perspective of us is likely as skewed as some of us may have of his/her mindset. That's why this is such an important post - at least in my mind. Get it out! Talk about it! And LISTEN to local input.
Heck gang - I didn't mail my SofI until AFTER I'd personally met ya'll at the Jam this year. A lot of people talk the talk... but I had to be sure ya'll 'walked the walk' too. That's what FreeWyo needs to SEE from us - actions that support free and independent life in WY... not a bunch of 'out of staters' moving in & grabbing up cheap land and then demanding Wyoming change to accommodate them. Heck with that! If I want more of that crap I'll take FreeWyo's advice & just stay here.
Please don't make the mistake of thinking the locals are stupid & need our guidance. If we're seen as wanting to roll into town to "fix" what 'the locals are doing / not doing' then FSW'rs will have a lot of opposition and some of the locals will inadvertently side with those who will 'Raise taxes, etc just to keep the out of staters from comin' in here & ruin'in' things'.
I've seen it first hand here. And guess what - no one ends up happy and "what was" is then lost to all, forever.
It's not that we don't have a lot to contribute (I also agree in thinking that we do!) - it's just that they don't see themselves as needing our help. And likely, they don't - else FSW would be FSH or FSI or some other state as the goal of independent and self-sufficient folk.
All I'm saying is to stand in FreeWyo's shoes for a moment. Look around where you live now (if still in the other 49...) and remember what it was like before "x", "y" or "z" moved into the area. Can ya remember where that corner store was that old man Johnson ran? Remember when you could go down to the river & fish off the bank... before all the no trespassing signs went up after the land was sold to people who don't even live there? Don't those Section 8 houses look lovely where the old hay field used to be? And look! The neighbors got busted by the narcotics squad... again! Who want's all of that? We don't. That's why Wyoming is so appealing. Guess what? THEY don't want it either! (And if we're not careful... we'll get the blame for a good portion of it which will in turn foster resentment and resistance. If the thought of 'I don't care if the neighbors are pissed off at me.' is part of your mindset - I'd just stay put with like minded people and leave WY alone.
Me? I'd never go into a man's/woman's house and tell them their furniture isn't arranged right regardless of having to climb in a window to get into the kitchen... it's not my house and there might just be a reason it's that way that's not obvious... from outside. I also might not go back... which might have been the point of their "furniture" arrangement to begin with.
-
I also think wrasslin' that deer scored you instant celebrity status that would make you a local legend in ANY area! Grin (That was you, wasn't it? )
Well, I've got deer problems here, but I've not wrestled any yet. Can't think who you might be thinking of. No, I'm the one who carries a .357 mag. everywhere as an open carry ambassador/ Second Amendment Sister, and was in the newspapers. Other than that, I'm just an older lady, trying hard to be a good neighbor. :) I'm not interested in politics or minding other folks business in any way.
I'm afraid I'm too old to wrestle deer or much of anything else. :)
-
Sorry John, I still see it from FreeWyo's perspective. And when I say I want Wyoming to stay just like it is... I mean it. (I'm not talking about the usual political 'rah rah' chants here - I'm talking LIFESTYLE and VALUES.)
Oh, well then yeah, I'm fine with the values and lifestyle staying the same en perpetua. It's only the political 'rah rah' chants that I want to change.
If in the distant mists of centuries to come Wyoming still wears boots and lives by the Cowboy Code and never ever would dream of yakking on the cell phone in the grocery line then that is fine with me.
In the year 2525,
If cattle still are here to drive,
If coal mines still do thrive,
That's just fi-i-i-i-ine
In the year 3535,
The perfect day did finally arrive,
No more ranchettes, we all live in town,
We burned all those ugly little ranchettes down!
In the year 4545,
Ain't gonna build no fences ever, here's why:
Everywhere you hunt, fish, or just see,
Is preserved exactly for eternity,
In the year 5555,
To ensure our way of life survives,
Talking on the phone in the grocery line,
Is now a capital form of crime,
Wo, wo.
:D
-
While visiting Reno with manfromnevada and his wife I saw a T-shirt that pretty much summed up my thinking on this.
It has the outline of the state of Nevada with the words "Don't much care how ya did it in California".
I personaly know how they "do it" in Kalifornia and this is the very reason I want out.
I like the way they seem to "do it" in other places (Wyoming e.g.) much better and hope to learn more about how they do it there when I finally make my escape from the Peoples Republik.
I personally can't understand why people bitch about where they are, then move and try to make the new place like the old one they didn't like.
-
?I also think wrasslin' that deer scored you instant celebrity status that would make you
a local legend in ANY area! (That was you, wasn't it? )?
?Well, I've got deer problems here, but I've not wrestled any yet. Can't think who you
might be thinking of. I'm just an older lady, trying hard to be a good neighbor. I'm afraid
I'm too old to wrestle deer or much of anything else.?
Waaaayyyy too modest she is, lunghd. ML?s telling the truth when she says she didn?t
wrestle any deer, yet. It was a bison!!! It was threatening her neighbor?s child, and
she darned-well wouldn?t let it run amuck. She charged it and head-butted it!* The bison
was more dizzy than she, so she gathered her wit (it was seen running down her chin)
and grabbed the right front hoof of the furry giant from behind its left front leg, heaved
her shoulder into its ribs, and toppled the beast right over (it was still dazed and stunned
by ML?s audacity). She whipped a couple of turns of tieline around its legs and threw her
hands into the air! Wow! What a show, girl!
The whole town was standing there wide-eyed and drop-jawed. You?re spot-on that
she scored instant celebrity status! ?Trying hard to be a good neighbor? is just how
some legends get a start. This may well be one that we?ll have to tell her grandchildren -
she?s too modest to tell them herself. This just happened, and you can bet it won?t be
long before she?s known as, ?Woman Who Butts With Bison? ! 8)
*Caveat Buttor: For experienced heroines and heroes only. DO NOT try this at home nor
on the range.
-
John,
Actually, I would love to keep things in WY exactly as they are now.
Or turn the clock back to April when I arrived . . .
Then freeze everything.
Not another tax (as is being proposed now).
Not another law (like the open container law).
Not another committee.
Not another smoking ban (as Sundance has just enacted).
No, stop it now.
The heck with trying to roll things back. I truly would be happy to see the constant enlargement of gov't and the constant erosion of our rights stopped dead in its tracks. No, it's not perfect by any means. Far from it, but I'd love to hedge my bet by taking what we have today and going with that than to try to roll things back and end up in a far worse condition.
That's my take. Your mileage may vary.
Mac
-
John,
Actually, I would love to keep things in WY exactly as they are now.
Or turn the clock back to April when I arrived . . .
Then freeze everything.
Are you saying you would be actually unhappy if government were to shrink? You wouldn't be, would you? When we get a bunch of people there and start proposing to repeal (or stop enforcing if the law is state or federal) all the victimless crimes (sodomy, other sexual laws, drug laws, gambling laws, other "vice" laws, labor laws, child support laws, etc.) you will support that effort and not oppose it, right?
Not another tax (as is being proposed now).
Not another law (like the open container law).
Not another committee.
Not another smoking ban (as Sundance has just enacted).
No, stop it now.
Yes, break-even is better than losing ground, but gaining ground is best of all, wouldn't you agree?
The heck with trying to roll things back. ... That's my take.
Don't surrender before we've even begun the battle! We can roll things back, with enough people helping. That's my take.
-
The best defense is often a GREAT offense.
-
Mama and friends and neighbors wherever you are,
Wondering whether my post, "... Butts With Bison" missed the mark. It was
intended to follow along the lines of what Prairie Fire said: "Let's all chill.
The original poster was provocative, but wrong in many ways. We've risen
to the bait." 8)
Similar to legendary cowboy hero Pecos Bill (and girl friend Slue-Foot Sue!!),
"Woman Who Butts With Bison" personifies the frontier virtues of courage,
strength, humor, ingenuity, audacity, modesty, and even superhuman
abilities; the embodiment of superlatives: strongest, toughest, greatest; is
also attributed with being the tidiest, cleanest, plain best dressed; is
immortalized in numerous, tall, [all-too-true] tales of the Old West during the
American westward expansion; you get the picture ? or so I hope ?.
Let?s all get a cool one (or whatever does it for you) and be the sort of
neighbor you?d want to have move in next door to you wherever you are
right now.
Lex ~W~
-
...numerous tall tales of the Old West...
Wait, wait, Lex, now I'm confused. Are you saying that this Bison incident did NOT happen?!? :o And I was so impressed with the detail of your account, I was about to drive down to Wright and try it out. ;)
"Let's see, reaching behind left leg, grab right leg, check. Now, what's next... ah, pull towards self, check."
Bring friend with gurney should definitely be in there somewhere, perhaps as step... 1?
-
""...numerous tall tales of the Old West...""
"Are you saying that this Bison incident did NOT happen?!?"
Nope. Note corrected text. Better to not let the tale wag the butt ....
Lex ~W~
P.S.: Just bring cowboy tea to wash down the Rocky Mountain oysters.
-
"I was about to try it out.
"Let's see, reaching behind left leg, grab right leg, ...""
Whoa, whoa, WHOA!!!
She butted it, first! Better butt it first! Or no tellin what'll happen second.
Or thirdly better yet, reread the appended warning - "*Caveat Buttor:
For experienced heroines and heroes only. DO NOT try this at home nor
on the range."
Best Wishes for Buttor Neighbors,
Lex ~W~
-
*Caveat Buttor: For experienced heroines and heroes only. DO NOT try this at home nor
on the range.
WHAT!?!?!?! Why didn't you have this warning before? I could have killed myself! I'll sue!
Wait, and are you implying that I am not an experienced hero? How insulting! This violates Sensitivity Statute 3.132.23(7)b. I'll sue!
Furthermore, lookin' out my back door I see no free-ranging bison, which is the result of the White Man and his campaign of genocide against all our brothers of bisonly orientation, and on behalf of the Bison Are People Too Foundation I demand reparations. I'll sue!
-
So, shall we call you Sue Happy? ::)
------------------------------------------------------------
There was a poster on the wall at Dartmouth's School of Computer Engineering's
Laboratory of Artificial Intelligence which bragged, "When better women are made,
Dartmouth men will make them." 8)
Here in the West a question may be asked, "When better bison buttors are made,
will Wyoming men make them?" :-\
The Women Who Butt With Bison Association may likely answer that question with
another question, "What part of "I have a headache" do you not understand?" :'(
(unsigned) >:D
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S.: Have we thoroughly wrung the daylights out of this thread yet? ;D
-
Dear Mr. Allen,
I am going to stand by my words. What I do with my life and my property is my business.
It is, in my view, valid to say, "none of your business." And it is high time that people stop snooping into what their neighbors are doing. It is high time that the government stop spying on Americans. It is high time that people took "none of your business" seriously.
If I want to buy some land, build a swimming pool, put up a fence, tear down a fence, move a trailer, drive a Jeep, go off roading, ride a horse, plant a garden, watch a horned toad, climb a mountain, swim a river, or sit naked in my office examining the lint in my navel, it is nobody's business but my own. And if you cannot think of seventeen things that you don't want everyone else to tell you how to do, I'd be surprised.
The reason I'm attracted to Wyoming is that it has fewer neighbors, they are more spread apart, and it has less government. Fewer total people are in government, and there are broad areas of the economy that are unregulated in Wyoming which are thoroughly (and foolishly) regulated elsewhere. There are fewer people inclined to mind their neighbor's business, even fewer who are so inclined who are taken seriously.
As John says, I want change. I want a better place to live. I'm willing to work at it. I'm happy to help my neighbors.
No, I don't mean that I am free to trash the countryside, harm others, steal, or vandalize. I've no interest in doing any of those things; I abhor such behavior; and I have the decency to take action against what I see of such things.
One of the changes I'd like to see is more people saying, "That isn't any of my business." I shouldn't have to tell anyone else that my private affairs are mine, and mine alone. People who were decent would perceive it already, and neither inquire nor snoop.
It is entirely possible that Wyoming is not the perfect place for me. The universe is large. I'm quite happy getting away from it all. If I cannot do that in Wyoming because some Republican majority in the legislature demands that I worship God their way, urinate in a specimen bottle every week to make sure I'm not taking the wrong sort of herbal supplements, pass a field sobriety test every 20 miles, pay higher taxes so the children of Republicans can have a free "education" (indoctrination) learning to hate muslims and despise science, then I'm willing to examine whether it is possible to get rid of such bizarre tyrants through organization, resistance, or other means.
"Why should I trade one tyrant three thousand miles away for three thousand tyrants one mile away? An elected legislature can trample a man's rights as easily as a king does." - Mel Gibson "The Patriot"
Wyoming may be a staging ground for better things in better places. I certainly like the idea of lower gravity on the Moon or Mars. And your mileage may vary.
When the USA was founded, the Continental currency had the slogan, "Mind your business," on every note. I think that's a fine motto. (About the only thing worthwhile about that Continental money was the slogan.)
Americans seem to have lost touch with a lot of the ideas of the founding fathers who fought the Revolutionary War and signed the Declaration of Independence. May God help them, Americans have lost touch with the limits to power set in place by the framers of the constitution. Clearly, given the tyranny under which we suffer, there were some major design flaws.
Wyoming is going to change. It has been a truism for thousands of years that no one can step into the same stream twice - for both the stream and the man change with every heartbeat.
Whether Wyoming changes for the better is up to the people who make it their home.
Regards,
Jim
http://hisovs.org/
-
I'm all for telling bureaucrats to mind their own business. In fact it is one of the most effective arguments for "non-compliant" homeschooling - it's none of the government's business (see Wyoming constitution for confirmation of this). And I think "mind your own business" also fits in well with the general Wyoming culture.
But I think it is a mistake to go on about changing things for the better, when you haven't even demonstrated that you can stop things changing for the worse. For one thing it excites the opposition of people like freewyo - when you could have them on your side merely by emphasizing you want to stop things from changing. Does it matter that freewyo et. al. oppose us? Maybe not; we are going to move here anyway. But if enough of that opposition gets posted here, eventually it may discourage freedom-seekers from moving here - which won't help John's or Jim's aims at all, will it?
I'm not saying give up on the idea of increasing freedom. It's just a matter of emphasis, and of timing. I want freedom as much as you guys, but we have to find the most effective path to get it. First things first...
The other issue is credibility. If you can't even stop a tax hike in Crook County for some completely BS project, what does that say about your ability to improve things?
The best defense is often a GREAT offense.
Yes, that is an argument for John/Jim's side. But let's face is, you have no offense with 9 people. There is a time and place for everything. Now is the time for integrating into the community, and if possible putting roadblocks in the way of advancing tyranny.
-
Paul - Thanks for summing it up so eloquently. :)
I was beginning to think I was the only one who caught the spirit of what FreeWyo was trying to say. It's obvious that my poor efforts at explaining where I thought he was coming from wasn't getting across the way I hoped.
FreeWyo - I hope you're still there buddy. I see Wyoming as the model for changing AMERICA... not the model for turning Wyoming into (insert home state name here). A few years down the road when I end up there - pull up a chair & you can make fun of my accent. I twon't mind tatta'bit. ;)
-
FreeWyo's comments were made from an ill informed perspective. As such, it is hard to take them seriously. Maybe just venting? or just taking potshots? (no offense Potshot ;) McMansionitis?
If FreeWyo will take the time to get to know a few of us via the forum and some of the WY residents, I think he/she will begin to understand that FSW'rs are the folks that FreeWyo would WANT to have in WY to help battle govco and preserve WY traditions and it's way(s) of life.
To FreeWyo: I think you will find that we are the folks you WANT to have populate the state and battle intrusive local, state and federal gubmint. We are the LAST folks that want to see Income Tax (gag) or any other 'add on tax' of any form.
Having personally met several of the folks on the forum, I can tell you we are predominately independent, hard working, family oriented, boot strap types. We are the LAST people to show up and want welfare, as most of us loathe it. We would much rather help folks on an as needed and PRIVATE basis.
You are telling the wrong folks to stay 'home'. If you choose not to return to the forum or meet any of us, we'll realize you were just venting and sadly, there is little veracity behind your words. If you have returned and are reading this, please take the time to get to know us...
-
The joke's on us. It looks as if FreeWyo has spent about sixteen minutes on this board. This from the registration time, to time of last activity. All on July 29. He had to type pretty fast to do all that original crossposting....or maybe he knows how to cut and paste. My hat is off to him, I can't. Learned once, though, the lesson lasted about a week.
If trolls ever become worthy of recoginition here, I'd nominate FreeWyo for the gold-plated award. He's had some great effect, from a tiny effort on his part.
-
Agreed PF.
Realizing the troll may not be back, others may read this which is why I even bothered.
We've got some sincere, heartfelt reasons for believing in EACH OTHER. So, there was benefit in this little exercise, even if it was started by a 'troll'...
-
"Let?s all get a cool one (or whatever does it for you) and be the sort of
neighbor you?d want to have move in next door to you"
"nominate FreeWyo for the gold-plated award. He's had some great effect"
"We've got some sincere, heartfelt reasons for believing in EACH OTHER. So, there
was benefit in this little exercise"
+1
Lex ~W~
-
The joke's on us.
Actually I think the joke's on freewyo, even if he is a troll, because he created a pretty useful thread. :)
-
??? My only question is why does Jim always think I'm picking on him? :o
-
??? My only question is why does Jim always think I'm picking on him? :o
Wow, I had to go way back to find the context on this... (Jim, if you reply to a specific post four days and twenty-five posts ago, please consider that some of us might benefit if you quoted the relevant parts of the original post. Just a polite request...)
My reading is that you (Paul) wrote a statement of how things are:
Saying that it is none of your business is not a valid argument. That is just not how Wyoming works.
And then Jim wrote how things "should be":
It is, in my view, valid to say, "none of your business."
Okay, that's fine. Speaking for myself, I agree with both of you. There is NO contradiction whatsoever here. One states how things are, the other states how things should be. There is no argument here, because you are speaking of two completely different things.
-
from Paul:
Yes, that is an argument for John/Jim's side. But let's face is, you have no offense with 9 people. There is a time and place for everything. Now is the time for integrating into the community, and if possible putting roadblocks in the way of advancing tyranny.
Hear, hear!
________
Before a suspected troll's (only) thread goes into 4 pages, I'm locking it.
We've covered enough ground on the matter here.
Thank you all for your input.
Boston
[/color]