Free State Wyoming Forum
Free State Wyoming (FSW) Promotional => Making the Case for Moving Toward Freedom (and Wyoming!) => Topic started by: Twilight's Last Gleaming on May 13, 2008, 01:19:07 PM
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I need to bounce this off of a few people.
First and formost, I believe that I may have a Freedom/Wyoming mindset. That isn't the issue.
I've got some medical problems that may, in my mind, cause some problems.
I've got a blood clotting disorder (the stuff wants to clot too easily) that has cause several secondary medical problems.
For the most part, this is not an apparent problem, but I am somewhat bound to cities and medical facilities for the rest of my life.
This, in my opinion, would make me a crappy Wyoming-type.
The mind, heart, and soul believe in freedom... the meat (body) probably can't take it.
Opinions?
Suggestions?
Advice?
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You are the only one who knows what you want to do, and what you are prepared to go through to get there, but I'd like to share my story with you. http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/mystory.htm (http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/mystory.htm)
I was 85% disabled and too sick to get around much of the time before I came here. I am now in perfect health, gaining strength every day. There is health and healing here for you, I believe, if you want it bad enough. I'd be glad to help in any way I can. Just let me know by PM if you'd like to talk about it.
There are doctors and medical centers here too if you need them. :) Where there is a will, there is a way.
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Why would that make you a crappy Wyoming-type person? Even if you are restricted to living in or very near a town/hospital, would you rather do that in Wyoming or where you currently are?
Joseph
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Well, all these goblins live in my own mind, and my thoughts are this:
I get around pretty well, but I was in my best physical condition 10 years ago, and the secondary problems caused by the blood clotting disorder make it necessary to carry around a small pouch of medical supplies all the time, or at least be able to access it in a relatively short period of time. I hate this, I see it as weakness, and after three years of this, I probably need some sort of psych counseling because of my attitudes toward my health.
I have an image of Wyoming in my mind (I've visited Wyoming a few times about 10 years ago) and since my body isn't doing 100% of what I tell it to do anymore... well, I know my shortcomings better than anyone else and I'll be the first to point out my own flaws.
So, someone that is not at 100% capacity, who can still fire a rifle and a pistol, but might get their butt kicked by a pair of girlscouts, would not be a burden in a free society?
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TLG, interesting post. I think, and I'm sure people in this forum would agree with me, that physical disabilities don't really define who you are. Since you found these forums, I'm assuming you are as liberty-minded as we are, and are willing to take steps to securing liberty for yourself, and by extension, others. If you are, then you are a Wyoming-Type person. I don't have anything as serious as your health problems, but I try not to let mine get in the way. I have asthma and arch problems in my feet, but I still do as much exercise as is safe for me (and my foot problems are improving from the exercise), and I'm still very young, so my health concerns aren't big problems, yet. I see no reason, aside from quick access to medical facilities, why you couldn't live in Wyoming. They do have hospitals there.
This isn't Sparta. ;) People with disabilities are as welcome as everyone else, and even more so if they're liberty-minded.
Besides, when TSHTF, all useful skills will be appreciated.
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How about this angle: Would it be possible for a fellow to be liberty-minded and "free" on the moon, even though he has to carry oxygen and environmental protection every time he leaves his shelter?
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So, someone that is not at 100% capacity ... would not be a burden in a free society?
Are you a burden where you are now? I suspect you're not, even if you might think you are. It's not a question of being in a free society, it's a question of mindset and determination to carry your own burdens, whatever they might be. I think you're mistaking where the root of value is in a free society. You seem to have this notion that it is a primitive, live off the land existence, where if you can't take down game with your bare hands and build your own cabin with a pocket knife, a hammer, and a mouthful of nails, that you'll go without food and shelter.
A free society is one of division of labor and free exchange of value, of self-sufficiency not as an isolated island, but as a way of living that means you provide more value than you receive. Knowledge, wisdom, and experience are more valued in a free society than they are elsewhere. A free society is one in which the mind is the ultimate source of value, not the back. Find a way to use your mind to provide enough value to pay for your needs, and you're not a burden to anyone, you're a boon. That's easier to do in a free society than in a nascent People's State. Wyoming might just be the place for you to start feeling like you're really pulling your weight - the best "psych counseling" money can buy.
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Amen, kylben!!!
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Mine towns, small cities, and all the rest of them have fairly good medical services. Wyoming isn't 1940s
Mexico, but you can't be willfully careless to the point where you need EMT services 24/7 avail within 6
minutes or you'll die.
Diabetics, asthmatics, people with heart arrythmias, and numerous other conditions that are fatal
if you are careless manage to live out there somehow. Needing kidney dialysis is probably the deal
killer if you want to live in a super remote area, unless you had the big bucks for a portable machine.
A change is mindset is critical for living in rural areas as the safety net can be pretty thin, but its not
entirely non-existent. Stock up on your meds, get regular shipments setup, and pre-locate any doctors
or medical centers you might need before visiting or moving to the area.
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Mine towns, small cities, and all the rest of them have fairly good medical services. Wyoming isn't 1940s
Mexico, but you can't be willfully careless to the point where you need EMT services 24/7 avail within 6
minutes or you'll die.
Diabetics, asthmatics, people with heart arrythmias, and numerous other conditions that are fatal
if you are careless manage to live out there somehow. Needing kidney dialysis is probably the deal
killer if you want to live in a super remote area, unless you had the big bucks for a portable machine.
A change is mindset is critical for living in rural areas as the safety net can be pretty thin, but its not
entirely non-existent. Stock up on your meds, get regular shipments setup, and pre-locate any doctors
or medical centers you might need before visiting or moving to the area.
Being an asthmatic since 2, I know that controlling what one breathes and eats helps control a lot.
Having half grown up in Denver, it's been proven to me. I'm much better off in Gillette, Wyoming.
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Mine towns, small cities, and all the rest of them have fairly good medical services. Wyoming isn't 1940s
Mexico, but you can't be willfully careless to the point where you need EMT services 24/7 avail within 6
minutes or you'll die.
Diabetics, asthmatics, people with heart arrythmias, and numerous other conditions that are fatal
if you are careless manage to live out there somehow. Needing kidney dialysis is probably the deal
killer if you want to live in a super remote area, unless you had the big bucks for a portable machine.
A change is mindset is critical for living in rural areas as the safety net can be pretty thin, but its not
entirely non-existent. Stock up on your meds, get regular shipments setup, and pre-locate any doctors
or medical centers you might need before visiting or moving to the area.
Being an asthmatic since 2, I know that controlling what one breathes and eats helps control a lot.
Having half grown up in Denver, it's been proven to me. I'm much better off in Gillette, Wyoming, a mining and energy town.
It's pretty easy to be more than 6 minutes away from help in any city with traffic jams. Is there one without them?
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So, someone that is not at 100% capacity, who can still fire a rifle and a pistol, but might get their butt kicked by a pair of girlscouts, would not be a burden in a free society?
That is one of the best things about firearms, it evens the odds between you and the Girl Scouts...in fact I think it may give you an advantage because I don't believe the Girl Scouts teach riflery skills. ;)
On a more serious note - I am sure there are many good medical facilities in many areas of Wyoming. This should make it no more a limiting factor for you than it would for a retiree or anyone needing/wanting convenient access to hospitals and doctors. I am in generally good health but plan on staying in Wyoming permanently when I move there so these would be a similar concern for me albeit more of an anticipatory one for me. I think MamaLiberty makes a good point on her page that finding balance and lowering stress are important ways towards improving health. I have a feeling living in a city in Wyoming would be far less stressful than in most other states.
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I have a feeling living in a city in Wyoming would be far less stressful than in most other states.
Living away from ANY city is bound to be even less stressful.
And here is the page I think you were talking about. http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/04/08/27/health.htm (http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/04/08/27/health.htm)
Badly needs an update! :)
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Living away from ANY city is bound to be even less stressful.
Depends. Some people really want/need the convenience that comes with being near population centers. Personally I live about 3 miles outside of a small (2500 people) town. It's about a 45 min drive to Peoria where you can have all the shopping/entertainment options you want. To me, this is the best of both worlds, I can stay out here at the house where the nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away, go to town and buy basic necessities or go to Peoria and buy anything I want. If it wasn't IL with the Chicago-driven gun laws it'd be even better.
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I have asthma and arch problems in my feet, but I still do as much exercise as is safe for me (and my foot problems are improving from the exercise), and I'm still very young, so my health concerns aren't big problems, yet.
Not to hijack this guy's thread, but I have similar problems. I can work hard and do anything, but I can't stand for long stretches of time. I am strong and competent. Not being able to stand for long periods because of my feet are my only drawback. That seems to limit me to very few occupations. So, what kind of work do you do? You don't have to be specific. Just wanting some ideas. In my current job, I stand about 25% of the time. That seems to work out about right.
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Howdy Twilights last gleaming ! I have known all sorts of Wyoming folks, with all sorts of "problems" . They do OK and survive. Pick a place where you have the assistance you need and you will be welcome. Others have said it better than I , above, no burden at all.
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Why not google up the large medical centers in Wyoming and give them a call? Find out what support they have for your condition. Then, increase the distance a bit and find out of those additional hospitals and clinics can handle your problem. At that point, you'll have an idea of the distances and competencies involved.
You may even find they'll stock stuff especially for you if it's a small town with just a clinic.
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After having read the responses to my original posting on this thread, and having thought about it a bit, I may have been failing a few "reality checks" about my perceived implications of the burdens of my medical condition.
I am "chained" to large cities, and I'd rather not be.
I know that Wyoming has sufficiently large cities and hospitals.
But I associate cities and freedom as being mutually exclusive.
Perhaps Wyoming's cities are a bit less repressive than cities of a similar size in other states.
Nevertheless, I am in the slow process of trying to sell my wife on the idea of Wyoming.
(I'll toss that in another post)
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After having read the responses to my original posting on this thread, and having thought about it a bit, I may have been failing a few "reality checks" about my perceived implications of the burdens of my medical condition.
I am "chained" to large cities, and I'd rather not be.
I know that Wyoming has sufficiently large cities and hospitals.
But I associate cities and freedom as being mutually exclusive.
Perhaps Wyoming's cities are a bit less repressive than cities of a similar size in other states.
Nevertheless, I am in the slow process of trying to sell my wife on the idea of Wyoming.
(I'll toss that in another post)
Casper is Wyoming's second largest city at 52,000 people.
That's not very many.
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Gillette is Wyoming's 4th largest city, with somewhere between 20,000 and 40,000, depending on who you ask.
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There's always NH, if you want a Free State with more facilities. NH also has the advantages of far lower tax rates, fewer gun laws, and a lot of settled-in Free Staters (including a couple of state reps, check out nhliberty.org).
In Grafton NH (where I live), even the local newspaper is run by Free Staters (and we're hoping the September issue will actually be debugged ::))
www.graftongazette.com
But you do have to put up with lots of forests and kayaking rivers in NH... if you want total desolation, you've got to stick with Wyoming ;D
PS this isn't to say you should move to NH if you really have a good plan to find a job in Wyoming... there's plenty of room for 50 Free State projects ;) But if your career or lifestyle requires more "division of labor, comparative advantage. etc.", NH is always here.
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far lower tax rates, fewer gun laws,
Not from what I've read.
We do have one thing here in Wyoming that you can't claim: Nobody from Massachusetts wants to move here... >:D ::)
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After having read the responses to my original posting on this thread, and having thought about it a bit, I may have been failing a few "reality checks" about my perceived implications of the burdens of my medical condition.
I am "chained" to large cities, and I'd rather not be.
I know that Wyoming has sufficiently large cities and hospitals.
But I associate cities and freedom as being mutually exclusive.
Perhaps Wyoming's cities are a bit less repressive than cities of a similar size in other states.
Nevertheless, I am in the slow process of trying to sell my wife on the idea of Wyoming.
(I'll toss that in another post)
If you are in central illinois you are surrounded by civilization at all times. LaSalle/Peru at one time was my
ideal for being in a cityish area without being in an actual city. Unfortunately, Illinois is also kind of dingy by my mindset. Iowa is home, but unfortunately its a home that has become too small since I've been all over
it for too many years and seem to know people who know everyone else.
Wyoming, which I've been to all of once is the middle of nowhere beyond south dakota. It's not totally beyond all civilization, but if diesel gets up to $18 a gallon you had better have a good stash of MREs, smoked and cured wildlife, and know which farmer markets to shop. ;)
You could be hurting for a little while if civilization destabilized, or if yellowstone exploded. ;) While I mentioned that they have pretty good medical care to patch up the miners and working slobs, I forgot to mention that EMS service in the ass end of nowhere really really sucks. If you screw up and can't cover your own butt for a few hours, you might die. But then, this is the case in Iowa as well if you pick the wrong time of day/week to get hurt. :)
The police dispatcher might laugh her butt off at you if you complain about the cows mooing at odd hours of the night, or the smells from a farmer spraying pig waste all over his fields, or a neighbor dozing his property, dynamiting something, chainsawing trees, or making his own figure 8 track on ten acres and raising hell with his redneck friends on weekends.
Forget complaining to anyone about anything less than actual emergencies involving fire, death, flash floods, and tornadoes.
Freedom means you can do a lot without someone trying to say you can't do it because it annoys them, it also means you are free to be so stupid that you can get killed without someone noticing. In a town of some size, say 12,000-60,000, forget about it, avoid chainsawing into a major arterial area on sundays and you should be fine. ;D
But when it comes to finding that "dream house" 30 miles and two 8,000 foot passes through the mountains away from civilization, you might want to ponder over the implications just a tad. >:D
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While I mentioned that they have pretty good medical care to patch up the miners and working slobs, I forgot to mention that EMS service in the ass end of nowhere really really sucks. If you screw up and can't cover your own butt for a few hours, you might die.
I am wondering just what you mean by that. In our town of Hulett of maybe five hundred people, we have two ambulances and enough volunteers for both of them. The time from a dispatch call to an ambulance rolling is typically two or three minutes. We have two EMT-I's and a couple more of us are planning to take the "I" course this fall. In addition, some of our volunteer firemen also have BEC or EMT training.
For serious cases, we often call for a ALS or ACLS intercept from Sundance, or LifeFlight helicopter from Rapid City if prudent. Flight time to Rapid City is about a half hour, and their crew has two full paramedics. We can also call for a fixed wing (King Air) from Casper with a comparable flight time.
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People don't always manage to be within line of sight of a town though, so its good to understand the transition from EMS being around the corner, to EMS being there "soon" as in half an hour or worse.
Illinois is just packed with people, Wyoming is packed with... coyotes. Hungry coyotes waiting to eat your children, old people that can't get up, and unsecured garbage. Don't feed the coyotes, if you are gimpy, avoid trips to "get away from it all" ;D
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Wyoming, which I've been to all of once
Michigan Escapee, you might visit a time or two more before you pontificate on what Wyoming is, or isn't.
I'm considered pretty "gimpy" by Wyoming standards, but I'm not worried about a trip outside here or up in the hills. Did I mention that I carry a .45 and know how to use it? ;) Have also not seen any coyotes, wolves, bears or anything more dangerous than a lone mule deer. We do have a resident mountain lion, but he's pretty shy, and has plenty of deer and rabbits to eat. He'd probably spit me out fast.
But I must agree. If anyone wants hot and cold running government "services" on tap 24/7, they might want to reconsider moving here.
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Nah, second and later impressions are usually wrong. They have actual research to prove that.
So my first impression is that Wyoming is huge, doesn't have a lot of people, and the coyotes will probably eat your children. Or rush them into their gang and have them eating mice before you know it. ;D
Most of my extrapolations are based on that fact that most everything west of the missouri river is a crapshoot if you aren't used to living outside rubber room society. Its all one huge empty space where civilization is the exception rather than the rule. Omaha isn't too bad though, at least it wasn't before Iowa chased all of its sex offenders over there. Now the sheep really will have no peace. >:D
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In addition, some of our volunteer firemen also have BEC or EMT training.
They aren't "volunteers". They are part-time government employees, complete with retirement plans, unless I'm mistaken.
I looked into it at one point but decided I didn't want to be a government employee. I told my neighbor, who was a "volunteer" fireman, that if he needed help dragging hoses or something, to give me a call, but that was as "volunteer" as I wanted to get.
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In addition, some of our volunteer firemen also have BEC or EMT training.
They aren't "volunteers". They are part-time government employees, complete with retirement plans, unless I'm mistaken.
I think you are mistaken. To be sure, I will ask next time it is convenient.
I will say with complete certainty that our (Hulett's) EMT's ARE volunteer, as I am one of them.
EDIT: I just asked one of the Hulett volunteer firefighters, and he confirmed that they are NOT paid.
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Depends on the town and the budget. In Washington out on the smaller islands they have a lot of volunteer EMTs, mostly just to pick up, stabilize, and transport people across the ferry system. Given that there is a funding problem since the ferry system is no longer giving the ambulances a free ride, I'm guessing the community was only paying for gas and maintenance on the vehicles.
The system all falls down if the patient is charged for the ride, then the EMTs are providing a commercial service and will soon want to get paid, have work related health insurance, and then of course someone has to find out where the money is going to come from.
But that's Washington for you, 3-4 clumps of heavy population, and the rest of it is the boonies. I think your Loompanics guy moved his business out there, Port Townsend or some place. Bad place if civilization falls though, unless you like salmon and clothing yourself in coyote skins. ;D
That reminds me, what exactly were people planning to do for fabric after civilization tanks ? Kinda hard to get cheap bolts of cloth from bangladesh, mexico, or china then.
Nylon and polyester last pretty long until UV and mold enzymes burn through. Hemp without serious processing is worse than nylon, wool is also pretty intensive to processes. Will the doomsday generation be clothed in blue tarps and tyvek suits ? :o
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I believe that I may have a Freedom/Wyoming mindset.
I've got some medical problems that may, in my mind, cause some problems.
I've got a blood clotting disorder (the stuff wants to clot too easily) that has cause several secondary medical problems.
For the most part, this is not an apparent problem, but I am somewhat bound to cities and medical facilities for the rest of my life.
This, in my opinion, would make me a crappy Wyoming-type.
The mind, heart, and soul believe in freedom... the meat (body) probably can't take it.
Opinions?
Suggestions?
Advice?
After reading this and your other comments, it seems that your attitude might be a bigger obstacle than your health.
Wyoming is not for everyone. It can be hard. There are things you learn to do without. The people won't fuss over you like they might in other places. It is really for more for folks who REALLY WANT TO BE HERE. Many come, but only a few stay. So if you REALLY WANT to be here, chances are excellent that you will find a way to be here and you will be happy to be here.
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Depends on the town and the budget.
Yes, it is probably community-specific. Very likely, they all started out years ago as (true) volunteer organizations. Then, at least the ones in the bigger towns, or towns that had a lot of tax money, decided to tap into that. They "forgot" to remove the moniker "volunteer" for some reason, probably because it made them more admirable in community eyes.
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I just thought I'd add this: until quite recently I thought that due to a pretty severe heart condition that I was in bad physical condition. I picked up a book to read on a long car trip that changed my perspective somewhat:
http://www.amazon.com/No-Excuses-Congenital-Champion-Wrestling/dp/0895260115
here's a little more that I wrote about it:
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=6625.0
Since finishing that book I have decided to train for and run a 5km (about 3.1 mile) race within the year. Previously I had never run farther than 1.5 miles.
Like the title of the book says: "No Excuses"! Not for me anymore. Henceforth, I'm only as disabled as I decide to be.
-Herk