Free State Wyoming Forum
Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Topic started by: MichaelNotMike on November 20, 2008, 05:26:23 AM
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Howdy y'all.
Found this place from a web address in Boston's excellent "You and the Police", and am pretty damn fascinated. Since I've only been looking at the site for about an hour, I'm not ready yet to place hand on heart and commit by oath, I but wanted to introduce myself so I'm not just a lurker.
I've always been into liberty, dig Jefferson and Goldwater, but didn't know what liberty (or lack thereof) meant until I became a lawful gun owner in California. Yikes. Reading mountains on that subject, in books and online, opened my eyes. To a lot of truth. (And also to a lot of really nutty stuff....I find that with most sane talks of Second Amendment issues, they're always about two clicks away from "ACTUAL SPACE ALIENS HAVE INVADED CONGRESS AND ARE MORPHING OUR DNA THROUGH THE WATER SUPPLY!!!"-type stuff. But I take it all with a pound of salt, and learn a lot.
My wife, Debra Jean, is my best friend. She's pretty damn smart, and a paralegal, and we both love and study and discuss the Constitution. In fact, we produced a really good audio recording of her reading the Constitution and gave it away for free for people as a study aid:
http://www.debrajeandean.com
Debra Jean and I talk often of more or less "dropping out of society." We're increasingly dismayed at unseen (and seen) hands making US citizens more and more powerless. We are really saddened from the current election. We ended up voting for Bob Barr, and even that felt like "the least of three evils" (he DID push for the so-called "Patriot Act", but not voting felt worse. Maybe next time, we won't. Hell, I dunno....
Feeling dismayed Obama becoming president. Had nothing to do with him being black. As Jim Goad says, racism is something that rich people made up so poor whites and poor black won't band together and kill all the rich people. If Ron Paul were black and had been in the final election, I'd have been going door to door to help get him votes.
I think the capper was Bush's cronies mugging me and you for a trillion dollars using a three-page memo as a weapon. That just made me ill.
Debra Jean and I started talking a few years ago, jokingly, about "retiring early and getting 40 acres somewhere." The more we said it, the less it became a joke and the more it became a PLAN. Now it's solid.
Don't know if we can do it in seven years. Also don't know how well we'd get along in a community of people doing that...we're very much a "nation of two." But I'm so damn intrigued by your ideas that I'd love to lurk a little, maybe post a little. If it irks more than one or two, I'll go away. I'm a busy guy, and have my own micronation to run. But I do really like the IDEA of your thing, even if I might not be a good candidate for the reality of it.
I think your plan can work. I just don't know if I'll be able to be there. Aside from the "any club that would have me as a member would eventually become very irritated by me", it's the weather. We're wimps about that, having been in Southern California so long.
We made a short list of places to live, starting with the 50 states, and using process of elimination to strike states with undesirable gun laws, no Castle Doctrine, hurricanes, expensive land, high crime, earthquakes, tornadoes....we whittled it down to a very short list of
--West Virginia
--Wyoming
--Idaho
--Western Texas.
I think we've got it finally down to West Virginia or Texas, but if I stick around this forum, I think I might want to add Wyoming back on that short list.
Anyway, just wanted to check in and say 'Hi!"
-- Michael W. Dean
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Welcome aboard, Michael. Your comments are rather familiar and you'll find your thoughts are shared, at least in part, if not in whole by many on this board.
Hang around, kick the tires and converse a bit. A diverse, liberty minded group to be sure.
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Welcome aboard, Michael. Your comments are rather familiar and you'll find your thoughts are shared, at least in part, if not in whole by many on this board.
Hang around, kick the tires and converse a bit. A diverse, liberty minded group to be sure.
Cool. Thank you.
I dig that people on here, while they realize the importance of the 2ed Amendment, realize there are other important Amendments too. A welcome change from the "single issue" boards I've been hanging around. Those folks sometimes tend to get irked when anyone does anything but parrot the obvious. This is a breath of fresh air.
OK, now I'm just waiting to see how long I take to get banned. Just kidding. Or half kidding. Maybe not....Web forums tend to be a microcosm of the world, and what I really want out of life is to just be left alone, and not much of the world seems into that. You would not BELIEVE how many people in California over the past few months, complete strangers even, have asked me who I'm voting for and how I'm voting on different propositions, then they try to CHANGE MY MIND if I disagree. Yuck. And don't get me started on how they react if I say "What difference does it even make? The whole system is a shell game"....and tell them what Goad said: "every election is just two millionaires arguing about who loves the common man more."
This seems like a place of people who want to be left alone, but also want to talk to other people. That's rare and refreshing.
-- Michael "home is where the rights are" Dean.
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Welcome indeed!
Speaking as one who lived a lifetime - 59 years - in Southern California... the weather quickly becomes irrelevant once you get here. You adapt and learn to live with it, and most of us come to appreciate it if not love it.
Come visit and see for yourself. :)
And you might get a kick out of seeing some of my blog. http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswblogs/mamaliberty/?cat=15 (http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswblogs/mamaliberty/?cat=15)
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Hey Dean,
Welcome to the forum. I think that your going to find it a very comfortable place to read and relax. There is alot of good information here, so take the time to delve into all the old threads that you find interesting.
I'm glad you made it here.
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Welcome indeed!
Speaking as one who lived a lifetime - 59 years - in Southern California... the weather quickly becomes irrelevant once you get here. You adapt and learn to live with it, and most of us come to appreciate it if not love it.
Come visit and see for yourself. :)
And you might get a kick out of seeing some of my blog. http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswblogs/mamaliberty/?cat=15 (http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswblogs/mamaliberty/?cat=15)
Thank you!. And I bookmarked your blog. Looks nifty, and I'll go back to it.
I'm not ready to post my blog URL yet. Still wanna enjoy the warm welcomes before getting banned.
Michael
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The only way you could get "banned" is to attack people and tell serious lies. I don't see that happening with you, so relax. :)
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Michael,
Welcome! Glad to have you here. Don't worry so much about being banned - I'm sure you'll do just fine. Post as much or as little as you wish. There are plenty of people on here who post some real gems so it's worth sticking around and learning. A number of folks have taught me a lot.
You're in good company that doesn't mind that you have your own opinions. Just relax and enjoy yourself!
~Blaine
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The only way you could get "banned" is to attack people and tell serious lies. I don't see that happening with you, so relax. :)
Good.
Me and the wife write erotica. I'll keep the details to myself, but it has gotten me kicked off of other places, so I'll put it out there, and then drop it.
I don't tell lies, it hurts my soul.
I don't attack people, unless in self-defense. And I feel pretty safe behind my phosphorus screen tickled by a spinning loadstone shocked with gold wires somehow connected, by a magic invented by the US Army, to friendly strangers in Wyoming, so I won't need to do that.
MEW!
Michael W. Dean
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Michael,
Welcome.
And I agree about there being "other important amendments".
Indeed the Bill of Rights, and the Constitution as a whole, is not a smorgasbord where you get to pick and choose what you like and ignore the rest! It's the whole thing, in its entirety, a package, indivisible.
It amazes me how many people stand behind the First Amendment. Free Speech! Power of the Press! Except possibly when someone says something that THEY don't agree with! They think strongly of the Fifth too, or at least what they think of as the Fifth. But now the Fourth is a little iffy with people. Darn criminals! Hiding behind some darn idea that the cops just can't come busting into their place without a property exectuted search warrant (specifying the places and items to be looked for). This all changes of course if the jack booted thugs come to THEIR home. And then there's that pesky Second Amendment. Jeez. Surely there must be a way around that problem. Guns? In the hands of Joe the Plumber? Any kind? Unlimited? Even those scary "black guns"? Surely enacting "reasonable gun control" doesn't "infringe" on anything, does it? And I'm sure 90% of the American public couldn't even identify what the 9th and 10th amendments say or what they mean. Sad.
The Constitution is the only thing that stands between me and the tyranny of the masses (mostly). I have a framed reproduction of the Bill of Rights hanging on my living room wall. I'm proud to point it out when new visitors come to my house (which isn't too often out here in the boonies).
I'm glad that living in Kalifornia hasn't destroyed your ability to think as a rational being. Unfortunately, my brother who lives there has gone over to "the dark side" and is lost forever. :(
Mac
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The Constitution is the only thing that stands between me and the tyranny of the masses (mostly).
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." - Lysander Spooner
Don't look now, but I suspect it's not going to stand between you and what's coming, if it ever did. sigh
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Michael,
Welcome.....It amazes me how many people stand behind the First Amendment. Free Speech! Power of the Press! Except possibly when someone says something that THEY don't agree with! They think strongly of the Fifth too, or at least what they think of as the Fifth. .....
Thank you for the welcome!
Yup....most people don't know when they say in court "I plead the fifth" that the reason they are GET a fair(ish) trial at all is also because of the fifth.
And 10-4 on the thought on how to some people "I love the first amendment" means "I love the first amendment if you don't print anything I don't like." The reason I mentioned my "alternative" writing with the wife is this: If I'm going to seriously consider working years to move somewhere and join a community, I wanna make sure that after I've worked hard to buy my land, then invite them over for coffee, they don't notice the books on my shelf (some written by me) and pull out those open-carry weapons and say "Move back to Kalifornia, cretin." I'm guessing that's not the case. I hope.
Here's a (G-rated) computer wallpaper photo I took called "Still Life with Second Amendment Protecting the First Amendment"
http://www.stinkfight.com/2008/11/16/still-life-with-second-amendment-protecting-the-first-amendment-wallpaper-2/
Michael
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damn typos.
Most forums I've been on allow editing your own post. Is there a way to do that here? I can't find it.
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Would like to Private Message you regarding the "legal" system since your wife is a paralegal. Found out about our Kangaroo Circus Court here last Sept. When I said I don't intent to testify against myself and wouldn't take the oath, the judge gave me a look over her glasses that could kill!
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Would like to Private Message you regarding the "legal" system since your wife is a paralegal. Found out about our Kangaroo Circus Court here last Sept. When I said I don't intent to testify against myself and wouldn't take the oath, the judge gave me a look over her glasses that could kill!
Sorry, cannot help.
Paralegals cannot legally give legal advice.
Also, she's an insurance paralegal, doesn't know case law on anything outside that, or much outside california insurance law.
Not sure if Boston is a lawyer, but he knows more about criminal law than we do, for sure.
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Would like to Private Message you regarding the "legal" system since your wife is a paralegal. Found out about our Kangaroo Circus Court here last Sept. When I said I don't intent to testify against myself and wouldn't take the oath, the judge gave me a look over her glasses that could kill!
I can't give legal advice. But I can give you*my* *opinion*: It would certainly depend on the severity of the charge how much I'd be willing to challenge the non-constitutional protocol of a state court if my neck were the one being chopped. Parking ticket, noise complaint or zoning issue? Maybe. Probably. Depends how much coffee I'd had and how cocky I was feeling.
Felony I didn't commit, or lethal self-defense case? Not a chance in hell. "Yes your honor, I do solemnly swear...."
(your mileage may vary. and INAL - I am not an attorney.)
MWD
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Maybe not....Web forums tend to be a microcosm of the world, and what I really want out of life is to just be left alone, and not much of the world seems into that. You would not BELIEVE how many people in California over the past few months, complete strangers even, have asked me who I'm voting for and how I'm voting on different propositions, then they try to CHANGE MY MIND if I disagree. [/quote]
Welcome Michael. I think you'll find there are a lot of people who've come here because they want to be left alone to live as they see fit. Many of us live in states other than Wyoming where that is increasingly difficult and are looking to relocate. As to the weather, I grew up in south Florida and now live in Washington state. You adjust fairly quickly to areas that have four real seasons. After a couple of years you don't really notice the difference. Though many think western Washington really has 2 seasons, cold and wet and warm and wet. Besides, as others have said a deep breath of freedom makes a large difference.
It's the same here with people trying to change my mind over who I vote for. I pretty much keep it to myself since being a libertarian is roughly akin to being from Mars in most places. Since I don't support whoever they support they assume I must be for their opponent.
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Don't need legal advice at all. I fought the law and the law won. Bogus traffic ticket from a IC borderline RC Highway Patrolman.
I saw it was a Kangaroo Court the minute I refused to take the oath and said I wouldn't be testifying on my behalf. The judge was insisting that I had to take it, and I wouldn't budge.
Anyway, what I wanted to kind of know is if most all courts are like that. When I signed in at the initial appearance and at my "trial" I saw the troopers hem hawing with the prosecuting attorney in the back and they all looked like cats eating $hit. I wouldn't figure the trooper to flat out lie on the stand, but I got a reality check. I kind of figure most folks in LE wouldn't lie like that, but he did at the end of his testimony. If I would have been really thinking on my feet instead of being nervous to beat all, I would have asked him to present his video evidence to prove my "sarcastic remark"
One other thing I noticed that was odd, was when the prosecuting attorney finished with the trooper, he never said the prosecution rests. I watched two court sessions prior to my date, and also the cases before me that day. He always said that he rested before the defense went. When the judge said it was my turn to question the "witness" I asked if the prosecution was finished. She then got irate at me and said it was my turn. I then asked again, if the prosecution rested. She said I wasn't "listening" and to ask the witness questions.
I had him dead to rights with his testimony about his testing of the radar, but the judge wouldn't hear it. I then asked to enter some case law, to which she first denied it, then I insisted. She asked in a smug way if I had it, to which I presented it to the overweight out of shape bailiff. She looked at it briefly and wouldn't have anything to do with it either. She also didn't take into account the radar unit manual copy that I had that showed the HP didn't test his radar according to the manufacturer.
Long story short, my peace officer friend in town was right. I could fight it, but I would lose.
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I saw it was a Kangaroo Court the minute I refused to take the oath and said I wouldn't be testifying on my behalf.
I'm curious what "oath" was required here.
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The Constitution is the only thing that stands between me and the tyranny of the masses (mostly).
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." - Lysander Spooner
Don't look now, but I suspect it's not going to stand between you and what's coming, if it ever did. sigh
Bullseye, ML!
An exellent read is Bostons/Keneth Royces' Hologram of Liberty.http://www.javelinpress.com/hologram_of_liberty.html
Also it is discussed in the 'Books we like section'.
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=3424.0
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I remember asking Boston if he was an attorney, I recall he said no, but that has legal training (though it may be self taught).
Also, as for editing, it's an option only available for actual members if I recall. Don't know why they did it, but there you go.
Gabby: You were mistaken about the process, I believe (which is usual). What the judge was asking/telling you do do was cross examine the witness.
The prosecution has to rest his case before you get to call any witnesses in your own defense, not in the middle of every witness. In particular, after you ask questions, he can ask questions again as well.
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... I fought the law and the law won. ....
yuck. That sucks.
This is part of why I try not to leave my property if I can help it. Home is where the rights are....Which is why I'm interested in having more land too. 1100 square feet can feel a little cramped.
MWD