Free State Wyoming Forum
Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Topic started by: sunny225 on November 10, 2009, 10:32:24 PM
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Hello everyone.
We went to Montana & Wyoming on a flying vacation earlier this year. Totally fell in love with Wyoming! Especially up in the northeastern corner. Gillette, Moorcroft, Upton. Gorgeous places there. But we're not really committed to any one area right now. Anyone got some advice & info on 'their' areas?
We are looking for land - at least 10 acres on up to 40, if the price is right. We need access to water of some kind. I've heard that you have to get permission to drill a well. Who do you get permission from? And is it a hard process to do?
The Wyoming land just seems to be calling to something deep inside of me. Do you know what I mean?
We have watched our country go too far from the Constitution & it's not letting up. We want the govt as far out of our lives as possible. And we're hoping for lower taxes, good neighbors & some beautiful country to live out our lives in the freedoms that our military fight for every day.
Any information, advice & suggestions would be greatly appreciated. We are tentatively planning another trip up there in April, May or June. We would love to meet up with some of you who have already made Wyoming your home.
sunny
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Welcome!
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Thanks.
And I just realized that my original post sounds like we flew to Montana & WY. No, we actually drove all that way but in about 9 days. With 3 dogs in the truck with us. Whew! It surely felt like we were flying though. LOL
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Welcome! Come visit us here in Newcastle, about 75 miles east of Gillette. We're nestled against the beautiful Black Hills. There are still some nice pieces of land available, but you have to be here to find them since most real estate folks don't advertise their best stuff... it sells too fast. :)
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Yes, we've figured that out about the land.
We really feel that the time is getting short to prepare. Ya know that feeling in your gut? I've got it bad.
So, we're thinking that the stimulus funds will finally be put out next spring & summer to make TPTB look good in time for the election. Hopefully, that means the sheep will think the economy is turning around & the housing market will pick up. That's when we'll put this place up for sale & MOVE.
If/when we sell this place, we'll pack what stuff we want & head north. It would be good to already have bought a place but we'll deal with that when the time comes. ;D
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Sunny,
Welcome to the forum. Look around at the various threads and use the "searc" feature. All your questions have been answered before. ;D
I think we have some threads titled "land" or "lay of the land" or such that might answer your questions.
Mac
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Sunny,
What is your job/financial situation? That makes a big impact on what areas of the state to consider. Also, what do you do for a living?
My wife and I moved to Lander early this summer. The past two years I had flown out and visited Cheyenne, Casper, Sheridan, Buffalo, cody, gillette, sundance, newcastle, upton, wright, Hulett, Powell, Greybull, Meteetsee, Thermopolis, Ten sleep, Story, Rawlins, Lander, Lusk, torrington, Laramie, and probably a few more I am forgetting. My favorite part of the state is Big Horn National Forest, but you can't really live there. Outside of that, Crook county and the area north of Hulett were awesome. More affordable than many parts of the state, more water, more tree cover, a great place to raise a family and prepare for the coming years. Unfortunately, jobs up there are a lot harder to find. If you have independent financial means, it is the probably the best location in Wyoming.
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Sunny: The water well thing is not big regulatory issue. The State of Wyoming owns subsurface water. To drill a well, you call up Cheyenne and they send you a simple form. You reply with what they want, mostly what they are picky about is where you want the well to actually be located, then you send it back. Approval is quick, cost is not much. Currently they are not requiring that the SSNs of your children be on the permit (nor yours.) They give you a permit, which is good for about a year to complete the well, then you make arrangements for a well to be drilled. Cheyenne beaurocrats are about the easiest to get along with on the phone, as any that you will run into at any local level. Others' mileage may vary. Probably by not much.
But since the topic of government regulation of subsurface things was brought up by you, you should make yourself aware of the concept of "split estate" in force here. A surface owner owns his ground, but another party may or may not own what is underneath it. If the latter is the case, the surface owner gets paid for things that will happen across the surface of his land, in order to extract what is owned beneath it by others. Get up to speed on this concept if buying anywhere in the state, but especially in coalbed methane country, which is quite a bit of Campbell, Johnson, and Sheridan counties.
The phrase regarding the above paragraph, is "mineral rights." Land sold with all minerals, will cost more than land sold with another party owning mineral rights. Even if you own all minerals on and beneath your property, you still must give (and be compensated for) access right-of-way for gas pipelines that may be caused to be routed across your land.
That's the way the law is here. It's been around for a very long while, and I would argue that the split estate concept has allowed Wyoming to be what it has become, warts and all. (Last I heard on this board, Wyoming was still the place that people want to come to.) The split estate concept runs the state government. Extraction companies pay for what the state government does, by and large. Failing states in this country, are those who continue to expand social services with no money to back them, without resorting to increases in personal income, sales, and property taxes.
Any sane person can argue that Wyoming should not be expanding its state government "services" in response to the money coming in from mineral severance taxes. The Democrap governer here, an early Obama supporter, did a wise thing and ordered all agencies to cut back 10% on budgetary requests due to declining revenue from mineral severance taxes. Other states have done a much worse job than Freudenthal has done, that way.
Used to be, that Wyoming exported its unemployment problem. People that came here during the booms that have always run this state's economy, a boom and bust place, generally exported themselves when things went bust as they always do. This was due to WY's lack of social services, during those bust times. Where is the state now in that regard? Couldn't say, but I imagine that the state government has been trying to mimic all the current money pits of other states in the expansion of social services.
So it could be that the old mime about Wyoming exporting its unemployment problems, may not apply anymore. Today's number was the same as last month's, 6.8%. There was some cautionary talk by the State guy that it would go higher. Hhmm, Barry's talk is always that things will get better...
That was before all the severance tax money from coal, oil, and natural gas started coming into the state. This state here now tries to emulate many of the spending concepts that other states have done.
Might be that WY can weather much of the bad things coming down the pike. Or not.
I'm a long ways from the Cheyenne flagpole, and live in a tight-knit neighborhood that covers quite a lot of ground. What the state does may or may not be helpful for the state, but on a more local level, we will try to help and protect ourselves.
In the spirit of full disclosure: I make my living from the gas patch. I live a long ways from the work, a company truck gets me there. For me, having the chance to see and work at ground level, the breaks country along the Powder River that I used to see just as an interstate highway traveler along I-90, is a cool thing. Sometimes the hardhat (slave collar) and press of work interferes with the view.
The gas patch will never hit me where I live. But if you, Sunny, are looking for places to buy, I'd advise against anything in the patch. Be upfront with any realtor that you deal with, ask about current mineral development and read the find print about who owns what.
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Welcome, Sunny! :)
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"The South will turn into a race war two weeks after the welfare checks stop."
-BTP, Surviving Y2K and other lovely disasters
California will too. Not just race wars, all kinds of wars. One of the many reasons me and mine left.
There's nowhere I'd rather be than Wyoming, for hundreds of reasons. Not the least of them being the gorgeous thin layer of snow Casper got last night that's making the trees, and the world, sparkle.
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Howdy, sunny. Welcome to the forum.
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To add a small clarification to Prairie Fire's comment:
The state of WY owns ALL water, both subsurface and surface. Part of the WY Constitution.
But as PF says, the process for dealing with permitting of a well is simple, cheap, and quick, assuming it's for "domestic use" and not cropland.
Again, look at some of the earlier posts for wells, permits, water, etc. The State Engineer's Office (on the web) has quite detailed info on how this is all taken care of.
Mac
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Thanks to all of you for the warm welcomes & the info.
Yes, I'm thinking there will be race wars - how could there not be when BHO keeps bringing race into EVERYTHING? Not only here but the entire country.
As for the water issue, sounds like I'll be able to deal with the state in a reasonable fashion.
No, we're not independently wealthy. Dang it! But hubby is real close to retirement & we want to go where we don't get hit twice with taxes.
Thanks again.
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I love that we have no stinkin' state income tax here!
~W~
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I love that we have no stinkin' state income tax here!
~W~
Do you love the state sales tax and the sky-high auto registration fees as well?
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Nope.
But it's all lower than California.
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Do you love the state sales tax and the sky-high auto registration fees as well?
Where I moved from in Tennessee had 9.75% sales tax. Seems pretty good here by comparison.
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OK, Hardware Hank, you bring up some things that I need to know about. How high are the auto taxes? Registration & license plates? How about liability insurance there? Isn't the sales taxes fairly low there, in comparison to other states? Here in MS it's 7% on everything.
We are in the planning stages of our trip up there in mid May next year. Saving as much money to go with what we already have saved to hopefully put a down payment on some land. Do any of you have any advice on where to look first? As I said before, we like the land up near Gillette, Upton, Moorcroft & Newcastle. But we haven't fixated on any one area. Give me your take on it.
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Do you love the state sales tax and the sky-high auto registration fees as well?
You Know Hardware, You have ONE Damn Bad attitude here on the forum.
I for one, am as tired of it as I was Of Elks attitude, However he did provide more
substance whether or not I agreed with him.
Lighten up guy... There is no need for that level of negativity here.
Sunny:
The sales tax Is 4% state and most counties add one (1) % for a total of 5 %
Counties determine the vehicle registration costs so they vary... True they are high here
but drop as the vehicle ages to a low of 79.00 on tabs here in Weston co.
New cars can run 500.00 for a Brand new with an average of 270-370 for a 2-3 year old truck
least that is what I paid....
I pay less in sales tax and more in vehicle tax, and With NO Income tax I am WAY Ahead...
YMMV
Rich
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That sounds like similar to what we pay here. My 2005 Dodge pickup tag was $168 this year. 2005 mini van is $188. We plan to get an OLD pickup just for running the hills with soon. That one should be the lowest on the totem pole cuz I'm talking 1970 or earlier than that.
I don't 'know' anyone on here so am new to the nuances in the background. But I DO need to know about the tags along with any other taxes I may not be thinking of right now.
Thanks to all of you.
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One more thing... Insurance is the cheapest I've ever paid @ about 60 a month full coverage
On 03 pk...
and you DO know me now...
Come to the Freedom Expo In June and meet a bunch of us in person!
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=8152.0 (http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=8152.0)
Rich
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OK, Hardware Hank, you bring up some things that I need to know about.
Something else of which you should be aware. It's certainly not a deal-killer, but may well be worth some thought.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:BcI-KXUiJ-AJ:www.health.wyo.gov/Media.aspx%3FmediaId%3D1053+suicide+rate+wyoming&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AHIEtbSHoivTRxwhng5IO5FNtaGAAC9nQw (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:BcI-KXUiJ-AJ:www.health.wyo.gov/Media.aspx%3FmediaId%3D1053+suicide+rate+wyoming&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AHIEtbSHoivTRxwhng5IO5FNtaGAAC9nQw)
BTW: I'm en route to Wyoming from my old home in Indiana, following a near-decade stay in the Memphis environs, including Olive Branch, MS. I'm a-gonna miss that state flag....
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what the heck? ??? suicide? Nah, if I was gonna commit suicide it would be down here in good ole Mississippi.
One thing though. Are there as many goofball, believe anything sheep in WY? They run amuck here & other places I've been recently. How dang many can there be in one place? :o
As I read through all the posts here, I feel like I know some of you real well. And I wish I was already up there so bad!
sunny
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Howdy,
I figured since there was so many threads on this topic I would join in on this one as its the most recent instead of starting a new one. I guess I have a lot of the same basic questions about moving to WY as everyone else. I am currently serving in the military and I hope to complete my last 10 years to retire but I have had a back problem come up that may bring that dream to an early end. My biggest concern is find employment in my line of work. I was an MP while in the Army but I transferred services and am now an Electrician (EM) which is much more suiting for me. My wife is currently using her GI Bill to complete her nursing degree. I was wondering what the job market for these fields is like. I'm really looking forward to escaping the lost sheep here in the east and becoming involved with more intelligent, freedom-minded people of an equal caliber. Thanks.
Mike
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Welcome! Please feel free to ask questions, of course, but I suspect that most of them have been answered one time or another. Do read some of the current and older threads. The search feature isn't the best, but if you put the key words of some questions in the slot, you will probably come up with quite a few threads about them.
Yes, there are still jobs in Wyoming, but you may have to be adaptable. I'll let others tell you about that. :)