Free State Wyoming Forum
Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Topic started by: Terence on May 04, 2010, 08:34:01 PM
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Greetings FSWers!,
I see this is the place to introduce ourselves and it's a pleasure to do so to the folks
of FSW, in particular.
First things first: Even with a magnetic history towards WY, solidified with a half-dozen
camping trips with my dog after my father died in 2000, it was the persuasive logical vision
laid out in Molon Labe that's resulted in feeling a bit like Richard Dreyfuss in Close Encounters,
lately. Thankfully, the modern version of mudcakes of Devils Canyon in the living room is Google
Earth Fly-by's, distant stares at the dinner table and stealing away to the rifle range on Sunday
afternoons. All good fun.
Frankly, I thought the locational aspects of Freedom were nailed in 2000 when moving to
Nevada: Bought a house, started a business, setup shop. It's been OK in terms of taxes
and privacy. But, I can't bring myself to take the next step and buy land, here. There's
no community, business taxes are creeping and now quarterly entity reports (Super annoying).
Gee, not so funny, now, that Corporate laws helped narrow the choice in 2000 between
Nevada and Wyoming and, uhm. . .well . . .my bad, as the kids say.
Other countries? Well, after FINALLY finding Isabel, the love of my life, in 2006 a 3-week vetting
of all countries on earth was instructive. Here's my summary: . . . .Nope! (As an interesting sidenote,
you can be relatively free in a country where everything is prohibited and nothing enforced, but, good
luck finding a community of people you can trust).
So, it boils down to ID, MT and WY (So long, NV).
Now, to my way of thinking, delete ID and MT because they are not FSW. Being one
prone to endless Optimization (Of everything) it's best to recognize that it's the people
that really make the place. Anyone who would read ML and vote for Freedom with their
feet has got my full attention and respect. I thought I did the same in 2000, but, alas,
further work is required.
Blah, blah, blah, so here's my pledge(s):
-- That I will cease vetting all but WY for our future home and state of residency.
-- That I will prioritize consideration of FSW's preferred counties as laid out
in ML (Crook, Weston, Niobrara, Hot Springs, Sublette) or, speak up, I'm all ears.
-- That each day I will take one step towards the pledges, above, with this (2nd) forum
post being perhaps the 47th step taken towards the same.
-- That I will take the true FSW pledge as soon as I can keep it as my word.
Preaching to choir, here, but, by way of introduction I'm a shoot off the porch, landing strip
on the property, what time is church, how can we help sort of guy (Uh,hem. . . Family).
Practically speaking, I've got a complex family situation here, folks: Bed-ridden Mother, Mother
and Father-in-law living with us, two-year old and wife with a great non WY-job. That's a reach
out to others who may have similar issues, not a complaint. It's my role as a father to the 2nd
love of my life (Timothy) to forge the optimal environment. It wouldn't be the first time that a worthy
goal required hard work.
To the ladies of FSW I proudly introduce my wife, Isabel. She's more than able/willing to speak
for herself, so, I'll just say, here, that her husband absolutely adores her! Her Mother's day request
was for her own LTR, so, we may end up with another Riflewomen in-house, after all.
My strategy is to use scouting trips to WY to further introduce my wife to WY and the logic of securing a
retreat, which will become our home. A pending house sale will assist in funding.
Conservative financial predictions have come true and built trust with my wife. I'll be building
on that trust, here, with Isabel. I'll build the retreat as our home and make ready. Gentle prodding
and correctly predicted circumstances will intervene and persuade where my words fail.
You want honest? That's honest. A fully functional, physical retreat built to become
the next home for my family. No timing predictions to make me a liar since any number
of family members could make me a liar which is really only a delay.
Physical trumps intentions, desires and goals and I wouldn't insult anyone on this
forum by claiming otherwise,
Terence
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(As an interesting sidenote,
you can be relatively free in a country where everything is prohibited and nothing enforced, but, good
luck finding a community of people you can trust).
Funny thing, I've also given thought to that scenario. From what I've seen of Eastern Europe (Bosnia) that's the case; they have enough trouble tracking down big-time criminals that all the "little stuff" a "normal person" would encounter was more or less un-enforceable. There was a feeling of a lot of practical freedom there, even if it wasn't "real." They also had a pretty healthy "alternative market," which was interesting. Unfortunately that perception was in context of being a deployed U.S. soldier, I figured there probably were some other caveats. Didn't think about the community aspect, I can imagine that one quickly biting you in the butt.
Sounds like you have a solid plan, good luck!
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Thanks, Adam,
To your Bosnia perhaps Spain, Argentina, Peru, Uraguay may fit the bill, as well.
We'd be as free in these places as the first person who would complain and the 3 days
it would take 'authorities' to respond. That's something, at least.
Terence
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Howdy Terence , nice intro. Look around the forum for my "wyotour" if you need more
Wyoming travel info. We have a get together planned for June if you can make it then, come on out !
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Looking forward to meeting you both! :)
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Hi Terence, and thanks for the great intro.
We all understand the difficulties in uprooting for Wyoming, so no sweat there.
Come meet us in June for our big summer gig, and bring whatever fam you can.
~W~
Boston
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Thanks for the welcome, guys. I'll look for the tour, wyomlles, thanks.
The forum has a LOT to chew on, so, will explore thoroughly before asking
questions that would just lead to duplicate content.
My In-laws are gone for two months to Colombia coming back in July which has
me on senior care duties during that time. Have to see if coverage is possible for
the gig.
Terence
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Welcome, great Intro!
Since this Forum is rather Unique in the fact that we actually are REAL people doing Real things.
An outstanding way to get past just the Keyboard Commando aspect of forums on the net, is to
Join us at our event in June:
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=8152.0 (http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=8152.0)
We would Love to meet you in Person!
I do understand the difficulties in getting away, I took care of my Father for a year prior to his passing.
In hindsight a break would have been WONDERFUL given the the toll it took on me, I did not realize how
draining that experiance was till years later...
Richard
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Thanks for the warm welcome, Rich.
Just read the your June link. The rules, alone, had me smiling
and wanting to be in a place where they would be applicable, not
to mention your efforts.
Ah, your "Keyboard Commando" phrase gets right to the heart of it, well put.
Also taking your hindsight experience of needing a break, to heart, though
am usually blessed with family support you might not have had access to for your father.
Terence
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FSWers,
Thanks for the invite, I'll be there!
Rich, I'll re-read your instruction link and PM a request for packet, now
that it's real.
Terence
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(As an interesting sidenote,
you can be relatively free in a country where everything is prohibited and nothing enforced, but, good
luck finding a community of people you can trust).
THIS.
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Honestly to your question about your situation and the move: I'm in the same boat, kinda.
I've got a good job (surprisingly with the federal government, doing about the only thing the federal government should be doing), make decent money, and have 4 (soon to be 5) kids. I also own a business that requires me to be here. I'm kinda stuck in what I do at the moment.
BUT, the only reason I'm not living in Wyoming right now is this: I don't have a net worth (outside of investments, which I also don't have much of anyhow...) of roughly $150k to $200k. That's it. If I had all my college loans paid off by now, zero debt, and owned our house outright, I'd be able to sell what I own here, and move to Wyoming, buy a decent size house to fit the family, and leave myself 6-12 months of expenses (very very low when you have no debt and no mortgage) still sitting in the bank while I start up my own business, possibly working for someone else while I do so.
Honestly, think about it. If you had absolutely zero debt, and owned your house outright, how much would it really cost you to live? If we were debt free, without changing our lifestyle we live here in Michigan, where we drop a lot of money on things, including about $800 a month on groceries (we eat a lot of meat and veggies, some nuts and fruit, and not too much grains, so not too cheap), we could get away with living on about $25k per year, with 4 kids. If everything after $25k was just gravy for you to invest back into your business, how long would it take you to build up some wealth?
Most people overestimate what they can do in a year, and underestimate what they can do in 10 years. That's the plan here, get people out of debt completely, financially free, and then they can choose where they want to live, instead of letting a job tell them where they have to live, or where they can move. Personal financial freedom is FSW's best friend.
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I made the mistake of waiting until I had "enough money" to move here. As it turned out, I waited too long and I had to move here with almost nothing. The only complaint I have is that I didn't get here soon enough.
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Matt,
In the 15 days since my first post I have done at least ONE thing per
day to get to WY. Since you and I have a similar family situation here's
what I've come up with:
1) Don't think about the complexities of your family situation (For now).
2) Envision your eventual solution and what it will look like.
3) As parts of your vision become clear research that aspect and
how it would play out in WY.
In my case, I'm looking for a retreat property, close to an airstrip, that I can place
a moblie home on to stay in while trying to bootstrap the rest. I'm also working on
all aspects of my work that enable generating income not dependent on location.
As far as getting out of debt I've got a plan that can help, but, it's going to
take some reading and cajones. I truly believe this plan can greatly
accelerate your efforts to pay off your house (http://www.youroptimal.com/blog/2009/11/05/how-to-pay-off-your-house-using-silver-inflation-part-1-of-2/)and any other fixed debts you
may have.
Ok, I hope reading a little about my plan (Above) is helpful in formulating
your own. From one slightly overwhelmed guy to another.
Terence
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It does seem a little overwhelming at times, on trying to figure out how to make the move.
You're right about get one thing done a day.
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1) Don't think about the complexities of your family situation (For now).
Terence, I'm not trying argue so I wanted to clarify. Are you saying I shouldn't take into account trying to provide for a wife and 3 kids when I'm looking at moving to WY? Here I was stressing about finding a job of some sort so I could afford to feed them...
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Stratispho, I think you, Matt and myself take our families into account in everything
we do. I certainly read that into your posts although didn't know you had 3 kids until now.
Any solution that wasn't sustainable wouldn't be fair to them, of course. And, my idea is
not to just live, but, to thrive and for my family to thrive, not that I know exactly how to pull that off, right now.
When I was trying to figure how the heck I could get to the June Expo, 16 days ago, I had
to reverse my thinking to "What if it wasn't impossible?" Asking myself that
question temporarily removed the complexity of my family situation as a block to
coming up little steps that were possible. We have a lady that takes care of
my mother on Sundays that we've known for three years. When my wife realized
how important it was to me she agreed to come home early from work for a few days
to cover. We also negotiated a rate with my mom's caregiver to fill in a few cracks
during my 4-day absence.
As I said, I don't know how all of this is going to work, yet, but maybe its just
a series of these small little miracles, above, strung together.
I also have BraveHeart playing in my head asking, "What will you do without
freedom?", except its my responsibility to answer that question for my family. And,
in a way, I feel I forfeit the right to bitch, later, if I'm not at least trying to do everything
I can, now. For me, there's also an element of making up for lost time. As in my first post, below,
I thought the locational aspects of freedom were solved, a while ago, and was wrong about that.
That's my story, anyway. . .
Terence
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You're right. Sometimes (a lot of the time) adults don't find answers because they think things are impossible.
I've heard of individuals and companies going to a classroom full of little kids to ask them how to fix an "impossible" problem. They come up with some crazy stuff, most of which is very funny, but some of which is actually good things that an adult probably wouldn't have thought of trying.
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And some of that may well be the fear of the unknown, including the comfort level. If you compare comfort to freedom - or even death - a lot of the little "impossibles" fade fast. I know... I've gone through it.
If you are willing to take a real chance on not being completely "comfortable" - at least at first - you may find a faster way to the possible. 5 people CAN live in a two room shack, on venison, beans and water if necessary, for as long as it takes to come up with something better.
No, not comfortable, but preferable to a lot of other potentials. I suspect few here would ever be in such dire shape, but it is possible.
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If you are willing to take a real chance on not being completely "comfortable" - at least at first - you may find a faster way to the possible. 5 people CAN live in a two room shack, on venison, beans and water if necessary, for as long as it takes to come up with something better.
All eight in our family spent eight months in a two room "not quite a" shack last year to allow us to immediately getting our persons into Wyoming, while further digging out of debt without any pressure for immediate income.
The something better has included donated winter accommodations of a three-room hunting cabin, great opportunities, scenery...AND awesome room to flex our freedom around others of like-mind (even though most residents haven't even heard of FSW).
We wouldn't trade the "hardships" of freedom in Wyoming for any common comfort/stability elsewhere.
BTW if you don't think you can do something, you are right!!
MANUMIT