Free State Wyoming Forum
Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Topic started by: Novak on August 07, 2010, 10:43:32 PM
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Today I visited Kevin Baker's website http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/ (http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/) and linked to another blogger's piece that he had quoted. The piece, titled "New Jersey Voters, Redux" was written by TheGeekWithA.45 back in 2003, but it really struck a chord with me. It can be found at http://geekwitha45.blogspot.com/2003_11_09_geekwitha45_archive.html#106853042517862539 (http://geekwitha45.blogspot.com/2003_11_09_geekwitha45_archive.html#106853042517862539).
The entire piece is great, and it deals with some of the primary factors driving people to places like Wyoming. To me, the gist of the piece can be gleaned from the following excerpt:
"NJ voters are perfectly willing to take it up the a**, set their feet firmly upon the dark road, and trudge forward resolutely into darkness. I’m not willing to have anything to do with this, and the only remaining question is, what exactly I intend to do about it. ...I’m going home. I was born in Red America, and I’m going back. I’ve spent too long steeped in this muck, and it’s already going to take a good long while to scrape it all off my soul, lose my prisoner’s reflexes, and regain my perspective." (emphasis added)
As a transplant to New York (from a red state), I've been trying to answer the question "What do I intend to do about it?" since I got here. Six years (almost to the day) and I keep coming back to the same conclusion TheGeekWithA.45 did. However, I'm only one half of the decision-making unit, and you can't force someone to leave the only place they've ever called "home." Still, every day the "muck" seeps in a little more, and you wonder if you'll ever be able to scrape it all off.
While I'm not in a position to make a FSW Statement of Intent, I am doing what I can to turn that possibility into a reality. The day after the sixth anniversary of my move to New York, I'll be on the road headed toward Wyoming. While I'll only be there for a short visit, I'm hoping to learn that it will scrape off after all.
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One of my best friends just retired from the AF (not far behind him!) and he moved back to upstate NY. He really didn't want to move back really bad, but you know how family is most important. I don't hear much from him since he moved about 3 weeks ago, they don't get cell signal for shit! Plus, he is busy getting settled in etc. Cant wait for a SITREP of upstate NY.
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A very apt description of what it feels like.
I plan to do some muck-scraping very soon! >:D
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Novak, hope to meet you when you come. If you can get your wife to talk to some of the ladies here, we might be able to help. :) Fear of the unknown is probably the hardest thing to overcome. If she will come to Wyoming and visit with us, you never know what might happen.
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However, I'm only one half of the decision-making unit, and you can't force someone to leave the only place they've ever called "home.
Thanks for your candor. I'll bet that's a more common circumstance than many would like to admit. Am in similar situation being somewhat world-travelled compared to, as you call it, the other half of the decision-making unit. Short-term outlook is to work for as Wyoming-like a substance as can be had locally & politically. Nonetheless, some things are going to be pared back for a road-trip to see someone I've corresponded with in WY who I believe I could call a friend. I don't need much and have not abandoned exploring a duality of households...
Scraping the muck off your soul indeed. Apt title.
;)
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I am infinitely blessed to have a spouse who is 110% on board with moving to Wyoming. Whenever we encounter some of the Minnesota brand of the Muck (of which there is plenty) we say to each other, “We can’t get out of here fast enough!”
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Well, I'm back from my trip and wishing I had never returned.
The best way I can describe how I feel is by repeating what I told my father after I started back through Iowa: "I'm familysick. I'm not homesick."
I fell in love with the Newcastle and Sundance areas and I really enjoyed the Bighorns. I carried the entire time I was in Wyoming, something I'm licensed to do only to and from the range here in New York. I talked on the phone while I was driving. I didn't see a lot of patrol cars. The air was dry. The nights were cool. I forgot how much I loved wide open spaces... It just felt "right" in northeast Wyoming. After my visit, I'm more determined than ever to move my family there.
Now the hard part begins: convincing my wife to go.
MamaLiberty: If I can get my wife out there next summer (or to start using this forum), I may take you up on your offer!
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Now the hard part begins: convincing my wife to go.
MamaLiberty: If I can get my wife out there next summer (or to start using this forum), I may take you up on your offer!
Don't wait for next summer! See if you can get her to read some of the things at the "Women's Circle" here at the forum. Encourage her to talk to us now, in this non-threatening environment. We'll do everything we can. :)
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I just read this short thread and then thought about it and it came to me that I couldn't understand what Novak was saying or where he was coming from.. until I realized the reason was that I've never allowed that muck to cover my soul.. I lived in The Peoples Republik of Kalipornia for 12 years , but I always lived "out" .. out in the less populated areas..from way up in the north part of the state to the Mojave Desert, which was beautiful and free in the 60's.. I've always lived in areas where you don't make much money but you were free and could move around, shoot a lot.. hunt and fish..
Moved to AK in 73 and was greatly disappointed , mostly because I discovered that to really use the back country required the ability to get there , with no roads that meant flying.. this I couldn't afford and I knew I didn't have the ability to earn the money to do so.. then on to MT ! Ahhhh.. Wonderful.. freedom to move around , hunt, fish, and for almost 40 years it was so or seemed so.. but it was changing, just like my hair line, waist line... free now?...not so...
Point of this is that I feel sorry for those who have these mucked up souls , I avoided all that by not living where the money was , by not wanting crowds around me.. by living where I wanted, not where my family wanted me too.
All my family , meaning my peers, cousins whom I could be compared to stayed home, went into the Air Force Reserves to avoid Nam and learned a trade, made money , built big houses, did it all right..
One Thanksgiving when I had come back to OK for the holiday my way of life came up and not in such good light.. finely I pointed out that at 17 I was a US Marine... by my 18th birthday I had been to a good portion of Asia , by the time I was 21 I'd been in places way south of the border.. way way south..been to Cuba, Haiti , and saw thing none of them would ever see... I'd been from coast to coast , Border to Border , walked on a Blue glacier , as the old Mtn Men said, I'd been over the Mountain and down the creek and seen the elephant..
I summed it all up by looking my torturer in the eye and said, "And when I die, nobody can put on "MY" tombstone that I was BORING!"
The only person who laughed out loud was MY MOM god bless her..!!
So I feel for those of you who have muck on your souls... but it will wash off, trust me , I know... and you will start living and never look back.. because to do so will just be another minute lost..
I hope you make it Novak! I really do.. it's not easy , I got divorced because I refused to move "back East" to keep her happy.. after her last spaz of throwing a fit she said ..WELL don't you have anything to say? I said ....BYE???
Well , that was more then any of you wanted or probably needed to know.. but I feel like maybe there is a nugget in there someplace..
No Muck here !!!
TW
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Thanks for sharing that. I expect we've got some stories to swap. I spent a good part of my life living in the middle of the Mojave desert. :)
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Thanks for sharing that. I expect we've got some stories to swap. I spent a good part of my life living in the middle of the Mojave desert. :)
Hi ML
I lived near a place called Newberry Springs out a ways from Barstow, loved the desert country and the wild freedom of it.. that would be the only thing I'd say I ever missed about KA.
I plan to head out to the Nevada desert around Lake mead in April just to hang out, then over to the Lake Powell country in May..I do love those red rock canyons! it's real high desert some of it..
Just gonna camp out, been thinking if I really like it I might look into getting a Pontoon boat and spend a couple of months exploring the 1800 miles of shore line on Powell, all those beautiful flooded canyons.. that to me seems like a fitting addition to the final chapters of my life...
I have a story in my head I'd like to write..about the area after a SHTF event.. for being an uneducated person I discovered I love writing , so far only PAW stories after the SHTF.. I surprised myself with this thing, but I've always loved books and so admired those who could write one!.. I combined my first two and have been told it was worth trying to get published but I doubt it or that I'd try.. lack of confidence ..
A good friend got me hooked on the books by Craig Johnson , about a Sheriff in Wyo.. real good reading.. you might enjoy them!
TW
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I lived in Barstow and Yermo for a number of years in my childhood, also Morongo Valley out by Palm Desert. I spent more than 30 years living in Lucerne Valley, about 40 miles south of Barstow, and 32 miles east of Victorville - tucked under the lee of Big Bear Mountain. I had friends and saw patients in Newberry springs and all that area for many years.
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How ironic that this thread has popped up again. I'm typing this from my hotel room in Rapid City after a day and a half of exploring Newcastle, Sundance, and Hulett with my wife and kids...
After a couple of days in the Black Hills, I was hoping for something along the lines of: "It's not the Northeast but I like it enough to live here." Instead I got: "I love vacationing here." To be honest, I had expected this reaction. Still, I was holding to the hope that she'd fall in love with it here, just like I have. Now I have two options: lose my family or lose my dream of moving to Wyoming. I don't even have to think a second on that one. My family comes first, period.
I have tried to explain to my wife that moving to Wyoming is in the best interest of our family. I've tried to explain to her that, if we truly love our kids, we should raise them in the place most conducive to transmitting the values of freedom and self-reliance. Unfortunately, such arguments have not resonated with her. She is more concerned with raising our children in a lush area near their extended family than raising them in the place most likely to safeguard their freedoms and impart desireable values. There's really nothing I can do to change this. It's simply a matter of priorities, and she places lush countryside and extended family ahead of freedom and culture.
Some may think that I should divorce my wife and move out by myself in order to aid the cause of liberty and impart upon my children the vital importance I place on freedom. I understand that argument and I don't discredit it, but it's not the right choice for me. I love my wife and kids and would not leave them for any reason. For me, freedom is one of the most important things in life. Family is the most important thing in life.
I guess the point of this is that I will not be making a statement of intent, which I really hoped to be able to do after a visit with my wife. Instead I'll make a statement of support for the project and hope against hope that somehow, something will change for my wife and that we'll join you in Wyoming some day. For now, it looks like I'll be looking for a place to live in Pennsylvania, which is better than New York but worse than Wyoming.
Thanks so much to all of you who have responded to my questions, provided support, and proffered intelligent thoughts on interesting topics. I will continue to visit the forum, perhaps contributing and perhaps lurking. I do wish all of you and the project the best of luck, and I will gladly provide whatever support I can from the other end of the country. Thanks again.
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I'm just so sad that you didn't let us know you were here so we could meet up and talk with you both. Sometimes meeting the people here can make a big difference. Freedom in Wyoming is mostly about the people, not the scenery.
Anyway, bless you and keep in touch.
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Prior to coming, I spoke with my wife about meeting up with some of you. I think she was intimidated by the idea, and didn't want to feel "pressured" about coming to Wyoming. I tried to explain to her that's not what would happen, but she was adamant that she wanted to see if she liked it here before talking with folks about living here. After exploring the area, she decided she was not willing to live here, so she wasn't interested in meeting anyone. I was doing well to get her out here in the first place, and I didn't want to ruin my chances by forcing the issue. As it turns out, it wouldn't have mattered one way or the other.
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As a man in a similar situation to Novak I admire his efforts but
completely disagree with his approach and conclusions.
Men, if your approach with your wife is to set Wyoming up as a false choice between
freedom and family then you will fail. Allowing her to frame the issue that way is equally
false.
When my wife asks about Wyoming I tell her the truth: "I love you, will never
do anything to jeopardize our family and am working hard and smart to increase
the quality of our lives on every front. Everything I have planned will
only provide more abundance and choice for our lives and never less."
I'd be happy to provide more detail but need to unpack from a long trip, right now.
Terence
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Your spouse has made HER decision. She cares not what your desires are, only hers. That to me is extremely SELFISH, especially for your family and the liberty you wish for your children and their future in a liberty free environment. I have extreme sadness for you and your children and your desires for their future as to their free and unencomboured minds which you wish to show them the liberty which is available on this planet. It is now your decision to choose. I, or I believe no one on this forum will tell you what to do. But, I believe in your own mind you know exactly what must be done. It is what you find in your backbone the truth of your decision what is best for your children, regardless of the consequences.
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Sry to hear that she didn't like Wy. Maybe she just needs more time to open up to the ideas of liberty and to realize that where you're at isn't going to cut it. I agree with you though, family comes first, some hopefully you don't give up and can keep weedling away at her.
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hopefully you don't give up and can keep weedling away at her.
Make no mistake, I will keep weedling away at her. When I said that my options were to "lose my family or lose my dream of moving to Wyoming" I did not mean to imply that I was giving up my dream of moving to Wyoming. I'm just giving up my dream of moving there now.
I am emigrating from New York in the very near future - that much my wife has grudgingly agreed to. Prior to this trip, I had hoped that my destination would be Wyoming. Since my wife has eliminated that possibility, it appears that I'm going to end up in Pennsylvania, the only other state she has been willing to consider. (Most of her family is in Pennsylvania, and it's less than an hour from where we currently live.)
Even though Pennsylvania is better than New York, it still lacks the culture of freedom and self-reliance that seems to be most common in Wyoming. If I do my job as a father and imbue my children with a desire for freedom and self-reliance, I believe that they will come to the same conclusion that I have: that Wyoming is the place for people like us.
Even if I can't live in Wyoming, I can take my children there as often as possible. I have little doubt that, over time, they'll come to love it as I do. One day, after a week of hunting, fishing, or hiking there, my wife will tell us that it's time to go home. When the other four of us inform her that we don't want to leave, she may find it harder to justify her position.
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I do believe you will accomplish your goal for your family. Your commitment sounds that it has grit in it. I believe you have the substance and texture to succeed in this endeavor.
All the Best
Jubal
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I really hate to say this.. but you might fall back on the Liberal battle cry.."BUT it for the Children!!" lets see... in one had you have your kids exposed to a culture of baggy pants, hats on backward, gangs, piss poor schools with liberal teachers.... or you can have them in a smaller school, being taught hopefully by a less liberal teacher.. or home schooled. fresh air ,few to zero gang influences , and face it, your kids are your future, your legacy , are they better off back there or out West?...
The argument of living near her family is a weak one, how many of them would uproot their lives to move close to her?.. I'm the only one in my family to break away for the old roots, I went out and saw the world.. none of them have made it more then 300 miles from where they were born.. couldn't leave the tit I guess..
To me, moving from NY to PA would be like leaving Haiti for Cuba... better maybe but at what cost?.... I'd rather live in a place where every vehicle that passes you has folks who wave at you... even when they don't know you!..
I can't say I feel your pain... because I haven't ever experienced it.. but I hope it all works out for you and your family... good luck..
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Well said Tripwire.
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I think she was intimidated
"intimidated" I'm sorry she feels that way. I'm in your shoes. The person I most care about in this world is "against the WY. cold", "will have to leave her 86 yr old mother", "will have to leave her 25 yr old job" & I myself am afraid I'll have to leave her! I am also in NY, where we will now have status Cuomo. Good Luck in your decision! I know it will be a hard one.
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The world is full of people who want authority without responsibility.
And when their decisions turn out to be wrong they'll blame everyone but themselves
for the consequences.
"You should have insisted" or "It's not my fault" or "Why did you let me do that?"
they'll say.
Just take a few steps per week towards a realistic goal. And, to your wife, try proposing
it in terms other than all or nothing and work from there.
Terence
P.S., Hear, Hear Jubal and Tripwire.
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Maybe a visit during the summer Jam would be good. We moved here with our 3 kids this summer from PA. We moved away from family and arrived here knowing nobody. All of the FSWers have been wonderful and friendly. Suddenly, leaving family isn't that bad. Having a community and support group that has similar opinions and feels as we do about things is amazing! We have never had that before and it is very refreshing. Having actually met some of the women from the forum this past week I can confirm that they do not bite and are all very friendly.
2 years ago I didn't know anything about this forum or the FSW project. I thought that my husband was a bit crazy. The idea of grabbing or family and hauling out to WY would have been ridiculous! But then, I didn't know anything about Wyoming yet. We were living in Albert and drove through WY on our way to visit family back east. It was gorgeous here!!!!! Then we were forced to move back to PA. HORROR!!! I hated it. There were no jobs. Everything was up in the air. It was unbelievable that Jef finally got a job and we were pretty happy about it... but the pay stunk! Hardly enough for the gas money it took to drive there and back everyday. In one week there were 7 murders within 6 miles of our house (and those are only the ones that made the news.). That same week I drove past a drug bust/murder scene with my children. That never made it into the news. A couple of weeks later a guy walked into my home and started hugging me and the children. That was the day that I changed my mind about gun ownership. So, when things finally were finally settled for me to stay in the US we were more than eager to move.
For 2 years Jef had been planting little tidbits about the FSW project into conversation. "But WY is the sticks!" "They have Casper, and Gillette, Laramie...." When we drove through I got to see first hand that people actually live here. lol It sounds so funny to me now. I had spent so much time sitting at home with the kids in a place where I didn't dare to take them to the park down the road alone, so Jef encouraged me to check out the forum just to read the women's circle. It took a few days, but I finally did and really liked it. Wyoming was quickly becoming an escape from things that I did NOT want our children exposed to. I chose to join the forum.
2 years in the making and I have gone from totally opposed to Wyoming to living here. We now have opportunities for ourselves and our children. If our family want to see us as much as we want to see them, then they will come to visit. My mother has already visited and my brother-in-law helped with the move. My mother-in-law and father-in-law are both planning trips once the snow is gone. :)
All of this to say that there is hope and some wives do come around and really enjoy living in Wyoming in the end. I would never want to move back now. Family comes first. I would have gone with Jef to anywhere in the world. I'm really glad that Wyoming was the place with the jobs and the freedom. We are very fortunate. I hope that with time you will have the opportunity to join us here.
L
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I think it's interesting that this thread is "scraping the muck off your soul." As I told someone at the Thanksgiving event, going back to PA (I'm from Wilkes-Barre/Scranton) completely killed my soul! Moving back West this year was incredibly therapeutic for me... and I believe the healing process necessary after those 10 long months in hell has yet come to an end. If you put aside all the crime, the unemployment/bad-paying jobs and the outrageous cost of living (maybe not from a NY perspective, but still more than double what utilities and other essentials cost out here), it's still the culture--or lack thereof--that really killed me. It was just horrible... I am not trying to exaggerate.
The thing is, most people don't see it like that. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that those who look at Wyoming as an empty, barren waste-land have never lived out West and have never had the chance to adjust to the culture here (i.e. heal their souls). This process for my wife and I started when we lived in Alberta--it was supposed to be a fun adventure for us; one that was supposed to end with us moving back to Ontario after college. Within a week of moving to Alberta, I had an inkling that the West was a special place. After 2 years in Alberta, we went back East to visit our family in Ontario and Pennsylvania and we couldn't wait to get back home--the East was not and never could be home any longer. I, too, was one of those persons who thought I could never live in a place without trees. Now, I hate trees. I love the prairie and I love the wind. Driving from Rock Springs to Sundance and back this week gave me a chance to rediscover the incredible, breath-taking beauty of the prairies and mountains. Aside from that, it's the people and the culture that really makes this part of the continent home for me. I don't even like calling businesses that have call centers out East (like my bank) because their reps are so damn Eastern! I don't know if I could adequately express what makes someone Eastern (this type of personality is certainly not restricted to any geographic location, but the coasts generally have a nauseating concentration of them), but I'm sure you know what I mean, Novak.
Our situation was very different from yours. Moving out West made both my wife and I see the light (the next logical step was moving from "Montana-light" to the real deal down here in Wyoming). I know if you guys managed to spend enough time out this way your wife would go through some severe culture shock upon returning to PA. Once you've seen the light, you can never return to your previous ignorance.
Depending on your wife's feelings about various issues, one thing I would point out are the gun laws in PA. They are fairly symptomatic of the general mindset toward a large number of other things in that state: For instance, you cannot use force against someone who breaks into your home unless they have committed a felony against you or a member of your family (i.e. assault, rape, kidnapping, etc.). Basically, you can't fire at a person who has broken into your home unless you were fired upon. Sure, people will tell you the whole thing about if you shoot them and drag them back inside it's all OK... but if you look at the laws on the books (and the AGs in many counties in PA who enforce those laws) shooting a poor, innocent criminal who has broken into your home will get you up on murder charges. Criminals have rights, too. This is one of the many things we love about Wyoming: the recent Castle Doctrine bill doesn't require us to become victims before we are allowed to protect ourselves and our children. This isn't something merely theoretical--we had many, many scary situations in our own home living in a small town outside Wilkes-Barre. I was prepared to face prison time if it meant protecting my family, but no one in a "free" country should be forced to make such a choice! Pennsylvania was hardly any better than Canada in regard to self-defense. In addition to being threatened by theft and possibly violence in our own home, I was genuinely frightened to go many places in downtown Wilkes-Barre or Scranton at any time of the day. Another time, many of the buildings near where I worked in Hazleton were being evacuated and others were forced to take refuge in the basement to avoid being hit by stray automatic gunfire while two gangs had a small turf war. All the police could do was tell people to hide--the criminals out-number and out-gun the police in northeast PA and the individual citizen is legally prohibited from defending themselves from agression. Some place!
Now, that being said, your wife and her relatives and most of my relatives would probably say I sound like a paranoid kook. Well, they've never lived in a place where they don't have to be afraid to walk down an alley after dark, they've never lived in a place where your neighbors and the random passer-by are friendly acquaintances rather than potential threats. Humans can learn to live in all kinds of adverse situations and maybe even come to think that those things are normal facts of life that must simply be dealt with. It doesn't need to be that way, but it might take a prolonged "vacation" out here and some time spent with FSWers to help her (and you) begin the healing process.
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Interesting thread!
Novak, from what I've seen, many FSWers move out here as much for the FSWers
as they do for Wyoming itself. It's a nice package deal. The June 2011 FSW Jam
will be a great opp to meet dozens of us in a fun and relaxed setting. No pressure
to move, though, will be felt -- I assure you. We're not high-pressure sales men about it.
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When my wife asks about Wyoming I tell her the truth: "I love you, will never
do anything to jeopardize our family and am working hard and smart to increase
the quality of our lives on every front. Everything I have planned will
only provide more abundance and choice for our lives and never less."
Well put, Terence.
Boston
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I don't know if I could adequately express what makes someone Eastern (this type of personality is certainly not restricted to any geographic location, but the coasts generally have a nauseating concentration of them), but I'm sure you know what I mean, Novak.
A former roommate who went to University of Wisconsin-Madison told me about a name they had for the influx of people who came there from both coasts: "coasties."
Coasties can be identified by a generally stuck-up attitude and un-deserved sense of accomplishment. They will often consider themselves automatically smarter than people who come from "less advanced ::)" parts of the country.
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Novak,
I feel like a kindred spirit. I have family, kids grand kids and friends in MN. I too will make the trip out to WY and investigate and I may also make the case to my sweetie. She will not increase the distance from the kids and grandkids easily. I suspect the most likely scenario is to buy some place and vacation out there, then maybe retire there after a few years of acclimating. Moving to WY in stages, not the least of which will be mental.
enJoy,
Cody
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Fellow Patriots,
Thank you for such a welcoming forum. What a wealth of information as well!
This is my 1st post as I just joined the Free State Forum today. This seemed a fitting thread for me to start in as I currently live behind enemy lines in San Francisco, PRC. Yep, carrying privately in the inner city teaming with gun phobic socialists, Drug dealers and thugs has been interesting to say the least. Just an invisible Sheepdog...a silent guardian watching over the nice people I come across, not to mention my own 6.
Well, about me... I'm 30, single, former Marine, healthy, fit, reader of Boston's for 10 years. I just read Molon Labe! and One Nation Under Surveillance this year. Um, Just finished Matthew Bracken's “Enemies” Trilogy as well, which I loved and highly recommend. But Boston's books have really made such a huge difference. That Big Green book gets read and re-read after close to 10 years!
I'm really a humble, trainable student and seeker of knowledge-always have been. A practical blend of maverick and team player. I'm currently working and going to college, using my G.I. Bill to invest in useful skills for the future. In August I begin EMT training full time and then on to Paramedic training. Would love to get some Tactical Combat Casualty Care training as well.
I've developed some other very specialized skills too and I hope to bring a lot to the table. I had training planned for the next 2 years as I figured I would have about that long depending on legality of arms ownership going downhill. Toward the end of Barry's 2nd term.
However, with the dollar rapidly heading for a crash and burn (a year at the most. I'll post a link to an illuminating analysis of the economy I recently saw. It dovetails nicely with Alex Jones' Fall of the Republic.) I'm scrambling to get together all of the things that very soon will be hard to come by at any price. Tools, ammo, gear and self sufficiency stuff. Really what I've been dying to do with my $ all along so it's pretty fun. A different type of investment if you will.
It is stressful living where I do. To tell you the truth I hate the idea of G.O.O.D. when the riots start here almost as much as I hate living here. There are packs wolves roaming this city who need a hammer dropped on them. Hard. And a lot of nice, fashionable, clueless people who will have horrible misfortune befall them. I feel guilty about being so prepared and leaving, at the the same time I dispise the G.D. liberals here. But this will be no place to be trapped and that I feel is the reality.
I am hopeful and grateful every day though. I'm hoping to find a family and a real purpose in Wyoming. And I thank God for Boston and all of you. Semper Fidelis. Who Dares Wins. Molon Labe.
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Well, about me... I'm 30, single, former Marine, ...
But always a rifleman, no? :)
In August I begin EMT training full time and then on to Paramedic training. Would love to get some Tactical Combat Casualty Care training as well.
More is better. Wyoming does not have EMT-P certs, just B and I. But that extra training and skillset will be surely valuable.
It is stressful living where I do. To tell you the truth I hate the idea of G.O.O.D. when the riots start here almost as much as I hate living here. There are packs wolves roaming this city who need a hammer dropped on them. Hard. And a lot of nice, fashionable, clueless people who will have horrible misfortune befall them. I feel guilty about being so prepared and leaving, at the the same time I dispise the G.D. liberals here. But this will be no place to be trapped and that I feel is the reality.
Maybe this is part of your life's path, seeing and understanding these obstacles. And now that you see and understand them, you can walk on past them. Let them continue to figure out the lessons they need to complete before they can move on. Their spiritual progress is not your responsibility.
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Welcome, Dodd! If at all possible, plan to come to the Jamboree in June. I think you'll find that new family immediately. :) And if you really want to save time and effort, bring your stuff. You probably won't want to go back. :) Lots of "former Marines" here too.
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But always a rifleman, no? :)
Yes Sir. I'm actually about to run out the door to UPS and pick up my Smooth Kote and BP2000. For my new DSA and JARD parts. YEAH!
Maybe this is part of your life's path, seeing and understanding these obstacles. And now that you see and understand them, you can walk on past them. Let them continue to figure out the lessons they need to complete before they can move on. Their spiritual progress is not your responsibility.
Let me consider this point. I respect your input and thank you for offering it. I feel very strong emotions about this issue. It's chivalry. Honor. Freedom. Survival. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'm right. However relative right and wrong seem when you're in a war. And that's how this feels.
But I am firmly committed to my mission the way I understand it. What's right in front of me and where the path is leading. I'm not the director calling the shots. I'm praying for knowledge of my creator's will for me. The power to carry it out. And the eyes to see the path as it unfolds. Strength is faith. But rarely will the Great Spirit speak directly to you. One must be open to signs and the people who cross your path.
[/quote]Welcome, Dodd! If at all possible, plan to come to the Jamboree in June. I think you'll find that new family immediately. :) And if you really want to save time and effort, bring your stuff. You probably won't want to go back. :) Lots of "former Marines" here too.
And MaMaLiberty, thank you so much. It's great to meet you guys. I'll have to read some more of your posts and post some more myself so that you can get to know me too.
I've indulged in philosophical waxing and now I must go. Sentry Solutions is beckoning me to UPS!
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There are packs wolves roaming this city who need a hammer dropped on them. Hard. And a lot of nice, fashionable, clueless people who will have horrible misfortune befall them. I feel guilty about being so prepared and leaving, at the the same time I dispise the G.D. liberals here.
Can't save the world, brother. Only the Good Lord can do that. Now, that's not to say that if SHTF, you can't drop the hammer on any street scum between you and the exit... >:D
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Thank's man. I agree. I'm not too Alpha either to say I appreciate getting a response to my new-guy posts. It's encouraging. Nothing from Boston yet though. OMG Boston you're my hero! :D
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Thank's man. I agree. I'm not too Alpha either to say I appreciate getting a response to my new-guy posts. It's encouraging. Nothing from Boston yet though. OMG Boston you're my hero! :D
He'll be posting eventually. I don't think he even looks at the forum every day, but he usually sees the "new folks" posts. Busy guy. :)
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Hey thanks MamaLiberty. That last post of mine sounded a little self-centered. I didn't mean it that way I'm just a little busy too and well, honestly my standard excuse of not sleeping is wearing thin.
Um, I've been thinking about how I would like to come up for the Jamboree in June. But I do need to stay the course here and put every penny toward logistics at least for this year. I do believe that the dollar does not have long to live. And then all hell will break loose. I'm only in the city for financial reasons. My hearts with you all in Wyoming. And the idea of having a community with lots of Marines in it is full of meaning as well.
:D I like this smilly face. It looks happy.
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Dodd, Please check your PMs.
Terence
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I owe this forum an apology. I felt that I owed the forum an apology as well when I chewed out BluewaterMI instead of suggesting some further reading. But after speaking with someone about it I let it go. The thread that I started "I'M JUST SAYIN" was ignorant and self indulgent, and I know better.
Just one month after I started posting here I've logged 65 posts, a bit obsessive. Now I'll admit that I have an axe to grind with the beast system. And I walk around feeling resentful of myself and others because I feel responsible for doing nothing while the evils I see around me flourish. I'm forever reminded of Nietzsche's quote:"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster..." But I don't want to sound like an agent provocateur. I'm not one.
Joining the discussions on this forum has sort of opened up something within me that I keep private. Terence suggested that I have some soul searching to do and I see that he was right. I've posted things here that no one knows about me. I learned my lesson well from reading "Bulletproof Privacy." I used to carry it in my rucksack as a young Lance Corporal when I would go to the field. That and "Unintended Consequences" which I found and paid for with cash instead of my credit card and I though I was so smart because I learned it in Boston's book! I remember when I finally got to lounge on my pack and break out the books I was so exhausted that I couldn't focus for more than half a page. Those books are still on my shelf today. I learned some other great things from them as well.
However I do have a lot to learn about Libertarianism. I haven't had the discipline. I also got away from preparedness and following current events for years because I never learned to balance them and reconcile some of the aspects of that within myself and it just became toxic. But I never stopped studying martial science. I never quit thinking like a sheepdog. I also never learned to make good use of it. I have a lot to learn and I welcome all of you to pull me up, point the way and tell me if I'm wrong. So, God willing, you'll be hearing less of me but I'll be here! Studying and reading instead of posting. I'm blessed to be able to learn here and get a chance to be a part of this. Thank you!
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It's quite a balancing out to keep a little fire in the belly without burning out.
If you're going to be all gracious about it, Dodd, I'd take a little passion over lukewarm, any day.
On the winding road towards optimizing freedom the areas of study are breathtaking: Economics, Money, Food,
Politics, Philosophy, Science, History, Law, Defense, Current Events, etc.
Not to mention keeping everyday life on track during the pursuit!
Terence
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Dodd, I hope you will come to the campout next month regardless. Consider it an investment, not an expense. I don't think you would ever regret it. An articulate young man who is willing to admit his error and still seek to learn is a rare thing these days. And finding a community of like minded people will help balance that fire in the belly with solid friendship, honest dialog and information.
Looking forward to meeting you, indeed.
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Thank you. It means a lot. I've already bought my plane ticket and sent my money to Boston for the Jam. :)
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Thank you. It means a lot. I've already bought my plane ticket and sent my money to Boston for the Jam. :)
Outstanding! See you there. :)
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...If you put aside all the crime, the unemployment/bad-paying jobs and the outrageous cost of living (maybe not from a NY perspective, but still more than double what utilities and other essentials cost out here), it's still the culture--or lack thereof--that really killed me. It was just horrible... I am not trying to exaggerate.
...
Aside from that, it's the people and the culture that really makes this part of the continent home for me. I don't even like calling businesses that have call centers out East (like my bank) because their reps are so damn Eastern! I don't know if I could adequately express what makes someone Eastern (this type of personality is certainly not restricted to any geographic location, but the coasts generally have a nauseating concentration of them), but I'm sure you know what I mean, Novak.
J. Scott Davis,
You were 100% right, and over the past eight months I have come to understand it.
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I feel the very same thing. I have been a city boy my whole life and I would drop it in a heartbeat if not for some factors:
1. Money- or the significant lack thereof.
2. Family (especially a sister-in-law who is at present dependent on us) including 6 out of 7 children who still live at home.
3. Job
4. debt and other obligations I feel require attention now
If money were not so tight I would have made the trip last month... as I also wish I could do for Libertopia in October. For now, I have to bide my time and work toward a level of freedom where I am currently. Arizona does have some freedom friendliness not found in many states. I would prefer a little less heat though! My wife puts up with my meager attempts at preparedness, but beyond a garden and a gun I don't know that she is willing for much else to change in our lives. She has struggled with other recent changes, mostly in religion/philosophy, but has come to grips and supported this for the most part. Right now I feel like she is the one who needs as much stability as I can offer. Moving away from both of her sisters would be a major proposal right now!
All in all, I do my best to unmuck through reading, blogging, and writing. I finished one book and put it on the web, and am working on a short novel now. Work and kids take up the rest of my time... So, I am right there as far as not being able to make such a big move for now. I want to get away almost as much as I want to be the best husband and father I can be. I know that providing a pro-freedom environment is important and I do encourage it in my family. As I can, I hope to make those little steps toward ultimate freedom sooner rather than later.
Peace
TP
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Welcome to the forums Tozier. I'm in pretty much the same boat as you. I'm out in the East Valley dealing with the 115 temps today.
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Hey Patriot. It's nice to meet you.
All in all, I do my best to unmuck through reading, blogging, and writing. I finished one book and put it on the web, and am working on a short novel now.
There's a lot to be said for that. I've calmed down quite a bit since I started to communicate with others on this forum. I've always been lonewolf I guess up until getting on the forum here. I've always read a lot (never really an activist though). It's painful to look back on my initial posts but doing some reality testing here has done wonders. And going to the Jamboree this year was just the happiest I've been in a long while. I came back to the city knowing I wouldn't be here long. And even though I often hate the city I'm making an effort to enjoy the short amount of time I have left.
And with the wife, just be always striving to be you, have integrity, direction and a plan and she'll trust you. Even if she constantly tests you to feel your strength and know she can let you lead, it's what she wants. Then she can relax, be woman, and you can laugh at the drama of it all. Until she wants to feel your strength and tests you again because she loves you (maybe by resisting Wyoming or you or whatever). You have to love the challenge to evolve that women are. Like feedback from the universe showing you where you can grow. No escaping it! Rise to the challenge and be the hero that you are! It's God's wish for you. His creative expression of life to be the most it can be.*
There are other men here who have lovingly guided their families toward the safety and wisdom of Wyoming with very happy results. And maybe others not so much... :-[ Uh, but maybe talk to them about it. I'm a bachelor! Woo Hoo! Ahhhhh freedom. But I also don't get to benefit of a great love in my life. Just haven't lassoed the right Philly yet.
* "The Way of the Superior Man" is a great book about this.
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thanks Dodd and Stratispho- Don't ya just love this heat! yeah- I'd rather put on a heavier coat! Encouraging words... but I usually get the deer in the headlights look whenever I talk about prepping and bugging out when tshtf. Then there is "the family'- really, it's why we came back to AZ in the first place. With one sister-in-law living with us and the other needing "cheap" child-care...
Yeah... I'm beyond ready to "leave it all behind"... not to mention all the official reasons to get the heck out... I've even spent a year conditioning my soil to see if I can produce anything decent in this desert. And I am tired of 400 dollar electric bills in the summer!
"listening" to everyone here has definitely given me hope that I can accentuate the positives of moving out and the improvement it will bring to our lives. I've spent my entire life in and around big cities and I want out in a bad way. Hopefully I can arrange a vacation to come see free west. That'll give me a taste of it and a goal to work toward.
Thanks guys
tp
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With one sister-in-law living with us and the other needing "cheap" child-care...
Hopefully I can arrange a vacation to come see free west. That'll give me a taste of it and a goal to work toward.
Just a thought----when tshtf are the extra dependents going to want to go with you, will they be able to survive on their own, will you be stuck their taking care of them................??????? ??? Extended family becomes sometimes a burden when your views and their view don't mesh.(jmho) I am not in anyway trying to pick at you, it was just more of "outloud" musing on this type of situation.
As for the vacation there are so many FSW'ers around the state that you really could see the state on gas money alone.
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Have you tried to get these extra dependants to prepare and become more self sufficient? If you have and they ignored your advice, then there fate is there own IMHO.
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Hi tozierpatriot,
I've been listening to Jack Spirko on The Survival Podcast in my spare time lately and I think about you for some reason (I often think about all of you as I'm going about my life). Tonight this podcast in particular made me think about you as Jack related a listener's call. She's the wife of a guy who is into preparedness. It's about an hour into the show, I'm not sure exactly. It's decent a podcast anyway. I especially like the gardening segments. Oh yes, not only do I dream (literally :P) about battling multiracial hordes of cannibals after teotwawki....I also dream of moving out of my highrise studio apartment and growing vegetables and killing hooved animals to eat...And battling bastard multiracial cannibal gangs who try to steal from my garden instead of asking nicely. I think that's very reasonable.
http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/#podPressPlayerSpace_3 (http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/#podPressPlayerSpace_3)
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Hi tozierpatriot,
I've been listening to Jack Spirko on The Survival Podcast in my spare time lately and I think about you for some reason (I often think about all of you as I'm going about my life). Tonight this podcast in particular made me think about you as Jack related a listener's call. She's the wife of a guy who is into preparedness. It's about an hour into the show, I'm not sure exactly. It's decent a podcast anyway. I especially like the gardening segments. Oh yes, not only do I dream (literally :P) about battling multiracial hordes of cannibals after teotwawki....I also dream of moving out of my highrise studio apartment and growing vegetables and killing hooved animals to eat...And battling bastard multiracial cannibal gangs who try to steal from my garden instead of asking nicely. I think that's very reasonable.
http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/#podPressPlayerSpace_3 (http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/#podPressPlayerSpace_3)
I only talked to you for a few minutes at the Jam but I knew you were a good guy from the beginning. Keep those dreams at the forefront.
Brandy ~W~
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I've even spent a year conditioning my soil to see if I can produce anything decent in this desert. And I am tired of 400 dollar electric bills in the summer!
If you live in an neighborhood you can do this, contact a tree trimming business and have them dump a shredded tree at your place. Then go spread the mulch around the property where you want better soil. You really can make the soil here into something good but it takes a lot of time and work. We also go down to the local dairies and load up a drump trailer once or twice a year to put in the garden and with the mulch.
My electric bill last month was just over $300 and we were trying to be frugal. Had the air up at 85 during the day and turned it down to 78 to sleep. I'm almost thinking it worth paying the extra $100 a month just to keep the air lower so I can be more comfortable. I can deal with being cold a heck of a lot better than being hot.
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We don't have mechanical a/c, just a roof mounted swamp cooler. We have been very comfortable
this summer here in NE Wyoming. My electric bill last month was $95.42.
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We don't have mechanical a/c, just a roof mounted swamp cooler. We have been very comfortable
this summer here in NE Wyoming. My electric bill last month was $95.42.
I'm jealous of that, we're fighting 110+ for the next few weeks.
What's your heating bill in the winter? I don't turn on my house heaters ever, just small room heaters for the kids or a I tell em to put on more clothes. The wife seems to be cold blooded and spends the winter (65 degree's in the day most days and we get down to freezing probably 20 night a year) wrapped in a blanket. *sigh*
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For the first 8 months of this year:
Average gas bill $ 57.74 (this is annualized and is the same year round. Last year it was $54/month)
Average elec bill $110.36 ($.055 per KWH)
We have forced air natural gas heat, and a gas cook stove/oven.
All the usual elec appliances, 2 freezers, 1/2 hp swamp cooler, 50 gal elec water heater plus elec shop tools, saws, etc.
With the swamp cooler the house cools to the wet bulb temperature in summer.
In winter we set the t-stat between 60 - 65 degrees during the day and all the way down at night which maintains about 50 degrees or a little less.
We have electric baseboard heaters in three rooms. Two of these are almost never used. Linda keeps her office toasty warm with the electric baseboard heater.
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I only talked to you for a few minutes at the Jam but I knew you were a good guy from the beginning. Keep those dreams at the forefront.
Brandy ~W~
Brandy, I'm honored. Thank you. I was bit overwhelmed at the Jam from just everything and so I didn't say much. I just thought I could maybe at least prove myself on the rifle range or make a valiant effort (ended up seeing how much of the fundamentals I need to work on, which was perfect) ...Between that and the higher altitude I was so tired! But happy! I could go on and on, but you know! You were there! :)
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For the first 8 months of this year:
Average gas bill $ 57.74 (this is annualized and is the same year round. Last year it was $54/month)
Average elec bill $110.36 ($.055 per KWH)
Chalk that up as another benefit to living in WY. Thanks for sharing Senior.
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Just for comparison. I have a 1700 (more or less) square foot log home. Top floor is log, basement floor is stick built, well insulated. I do not have any central air or heat. All electric. Wood stove used at times only this last winter. Electric rates went up some, but my bill didn't because of the wood stove, I think.
Maximum electric bill this year (January) $119. Minimum bill so far, $42.
Sorry that's not more scientific. :)
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Hey again tozierpatriot, I just found a good podcast.
http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/getting-your-spouse-on-board-with-survival-planning (http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/getting-your-spouse-on-board-with-survival-planning)
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Hi, I am new to the forum. My family currently lives in Denver. We and several other families are 99% on board with moving up to WY here in the VERY near future. We are planning to do a weekend road trip up north soon to decide what areas we might relocate to. Sundance/Newcastle are at the top of the list. What are the towns/counties with the most FSW'ers living in them? How can we meet up with some people face to face?
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Hi, I am new to the forum. My family currently lives in Denver. We and several other families are 99% on board with moving up to WY here in the VERY near future. We are planning to do a weekend road trip up north soon to decide what areas we might relocate to. Sundance/Newcastle are at the top of the list. What are the towns/counties with the most FSW'ers living in them? How can we meet up with some people face to face?
Welcome! Newcastle and Sundance... and surrounding areas - are pretty well populated with FSW folks. Let us know when you are coming and we'll gather the clan. We're always eager to meet new folks.
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Thanks Mama Liberty. We are politically active where we live. Have an FSW'ers gotten into local politics yet? What are the political demographics of the Black Hills area? We are thinking of buying some land out side of town to develop. Does anyone know of any small acerage parcels in the area for less then $20,000?
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Seriously suggest you read the "frequently asked questions" here: http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?board=32.0
FSW is not a political organization at all. Some of our members are politically active, but as individuals only.
Lots of information about real estate and prices here: http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?board=12.0
There are very few really small parcels of land available except city lots or in a few developments near towns. Most areas have a 35 acre minimum, and land is usually not less than about $2,000 an acre unless you are buying very large tracts of it. There are bargains around, but you have to be in the right place at the right time usually to find them.
Take a look at the vast amount of information available here at the FSW forum. Use the search engine. Many of us are happy to help, but we can't do your leg work for you, of course. Your boots on the ground here will be necessary to find what you want and need.
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...battling multiracial hordes of cannibals after teotwawki...
Hmmm...
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...battling multiracial hordes of cannibals after teotwawki...
Hmmm...
Sounds like modern day California Dreamin'. More time in Wyoming would make such
dreams subside, no doubt.
Terence
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...battling multiracial hordes of cannibals after teotwawki...
Hmmm...
Oops. I think I wrote that. I'm guilty of being a fan of the zombie/cannibal/plague/teotwawki stuff. But here there are really folks everywhere that look and act like the walking dead. Homeless, drug addicts, gangs of thugs on the corners. Shootings(2 days ago at least on my street) and all kinds of crap littering the street. A month ago I walked to my apartment following a blood trail for about a block that looked like someone bled out for a while then got up and dragged a bloody foot for a block. One time some church folks were handing out sandwiches and a guy in a sleeping bag, to their horror, was eating a pigeon! Feathers and all. And you go a few blocks away in one direction and you're around million dollar homes. A few blocks the other way and it's tourists. It's not hard to see what the future will be like here.
And I know this is the Free State Wyoming Forum. But to me I see all of the decay here and I think, this absolutely can not be allowed to happen to Wyoming. It's all we've got left.
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Good heavens, Dodd - you need to get out of there, seriously! A "crime wave" where I live is a gas drive off and a stack of late library books. If all of the mala prohibita type stuff was repealed, there really wouldn't be much of any "crime" here at all.
That nonsense where you are can't help but bring out a zombie phobia! Yikes!
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We had a "horrible" crime here in Thermopolis right after I moved back here. A drunk was observed riding a bicycle. Also have strange people reported standing on street corners, but, when cops get there they are gone. Then we had a drunk walk several blocks from a bar at 3:00 AM and tried to get in our house. He missed his house by a block. He was a very nice drunk and apologized profusely while laying on his back in the snow by our front door. That's about it for crime where we live.
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We had a "horrible" crime here in Thermopolis right after I moved back here. A drunk was observed riding a bicycle.
Can't remember where it was, but I read a while back about a man arrested for DUI - while riding his horse. Crazy. The horse knew how to get home safely. :)
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That is adorable. It sounds like the stuff dreams are made of. :)
No, but seriously I am planning to get out of here. I just have some loose ends, money to save, and some folks I don't know how to leave behind. They'll not move, and won't consider the fact that an economic crunch is happening to all of us. I need to at least help them get squared away, even if I have to do it for them, in order to be able to live with myself.
However, I've only one life to live and I won't live it in misery here like a loyal dog.
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...battling multiracial hordes of cannibals after teotwawki...
Hmmm...
I get it now. Last night I had a conversation with a gentleman from Texas about how friendly folks are there and I felt terrible for being so wound up and unhappy with people in the city. I've been thinking about how all of my worldly experience has made me appreciate how precious Wyoming is and how I want to conserve it and I hope folks there understand how precious it is and fight for it. True, but all muck. Sigh.
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However, I've only one life to live and I won't live it in misery here like a loyal dog.
Dodd,
You can only do so much and then you have to make your own stance(as I am sure you know). I firmly believe that you are an asset to Wyoming and we will welcome you whole heartily when you finally make the life changing journey.
Brandy ~W~
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Indeed, Brandy. Hang in there Dodd. Lots of us pulling for you. :)
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Thank you both. I'm humbled and grateful.
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I echo those sentiments, Dodd.
Moving can seem daunting, but in retrospect it's not that big a deal.
Many of us can attest to that.
Make a plan for Wyoming, and just do it.
~W~
Boston
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I acknowledge that. I'm just speechless. Thank you.
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I am continually amazed at how intimidated people are about moving. It's not such a big thing - at least when the spouse is "on board" (that's really the hardest part). I've always looked at it as an adventure, and a way to get out of the rut that I (and everybody) always seem to get into.
I just have some loose ends, money to save, and some folks I don't know how to leave behind. They'll not move, and won't consider the fact that an economic crunch is happening to all of us. I need to at least help them get squared away, even if I have to do it for them, in order to be able to live with myself.
In the end, you need to take care of your immediate family, and trust others to take care of their own family in their own way. If they or you make wrong choices, especially when you all have traded information so the choices are informed, that is all that can reasonably be done, and there is nothing you need to do in the way of "living with yourself". Anyway the best teaching is by example. They certainly won't leave if you are not going to.
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Seriously suggest you read the "frequently asked questions" here: http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?board=32.0
There are very few really small parcels of land available except city lots or in a few developments near towns. Most areas have a 35 acre minimum, and land is usually not less than about $2,000 an acre unless you are buying very large tracts of it.
Has anyone considered a co-op on a land purchase?
Over the last few months, i have been reading post after post about real estate inquiries. Seems that there are several folks that are motivated to move here, but living arrangements and land purchases are the biggest obstacle.
I have 40K that i can put towards this if there is enough interest.
pW
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Ditto...I have some cash, and the typical mortgage lenders don't seem to agree that cash is "legal tender for all debts public and private". I am desperately seeking acceptable land to purchase and build upon. I have talked with a couple folks on this board, but am still trying to make headway. I will know more in January, but otherwise would definitely entertain a co-op land purchase.
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at least when the spouse is "on board" (that's really the hardest part).
I've been fighting that part for 6 years now. Our two recurring arguments are moving to WY, and homeschooling the kids. We don't ever fight about money because it's pointless to fight about something we don't have. :)