Free State Wyoming Forum
Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Topic started by: RaisedByWolves on March 12, 2012, 09:48:32 AM
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I realize that this post may be somewhat miscategorized, but as you can see, I am a "newbie" and this is also my very first post. Now to the point: My wife and I are giving very serious consideration to making the move to Wyoming this September. We were initially looking to relocate to a less populated region than the one in which we currently reside, thus I struck upon the idea of WY. In doing my due diligence I subsequently discovered FSW and was lead here to the forum. So finding out about the existence of an organization of like-minded individuals was a welcome bonus to the appeal of the state itself. As it is my understanding that Crook County is the epicenter of FSW's efforts (correct?) we are looking to make the move to Sundance or the surrounding area. While I've done some research on the weather in the area, bar graphs and precipitation statistics aren't really answering my questions. So, what I want to know about is SNOW. I'm a Florida native therefore I have ZERO experience. In Crook County would I need a 4x4 vehicle? I have a pick up truck, but it's 2wd. Would I need chains, snow tires? Obviously we are planning to invest in some warm clothing in preparation for the drastically different climate, but I'd like to get some word-of-mouth information from some folks on the ground in the area so I can know what to expect weather-wise. Thanks in advance!
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Let me put it this way...
Feb 19 I got stuck in Sundance because of a snowstorm. The next day it took me almost an hour to go the 40ish miles to Newcastle... but 10 mi south of Newcastle the ground was totally bare.
Get the picture? :D
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Well.... as with almost anything, "that depends." >:D
I live in Newcastle (Weston county), quite near Sundance (by Wyoming measure - 45 miles) and we have less than half the snow of a lot of places in Crook county. Newcastle is in a little "banana belt" and has far less snow and cold than most of the rest of the state.
But we still do get snow, ice and cold. It's all relative. Compared to Florida, it would seem extreme - at least at first. I came from S. Calif. and was sure I'd suffer terribly from the cold. But I didn't. I got used to it very quickly. That said, it does matter what kind of work you do. I'm retired, so if it is nasty outside - I just stay home. If you have to actually work outside all the time, it will be a lot more difficult.
The 4WD and chains question will be more related to where you live. If you are near mostly maintained roads, a 2WD may do, but if you are out of town far, a 4WD might be essential. You figure that out after you get here. :) Never saw anyone here with chains on their car.
I've talked to a great many people about a possible move to Wyoming. Most of the folks from the south are more worried about snow and cold than anything else. You just have to figure what is most important to you. And make a visit in the winter so you really know what you are up against. All too often, our imagination of a danger or challenge is far worse than the reality.
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Let me put it this way...
Feb 19 I got stuck in Sundance because of a snowstorm. The next day it took me almost an hour to go the 40ish miles to Newcastle... but 10 mi south of Newcastle the ground was totally bare.
Get the picture? :D
I don't get that picture??? Are you saying sometimes it snows a lot in one place & not a lot in others? In Iowa the same is true. We might get 8 or 10 inches of snow here and 1 inch 40 miles. away. ;D
From the massive experience of my one trip to Wyoming >:D I would say you only need a 4WD if you live in one town (or a ranch) and need to drive in every day for work somewhere else. I don't think someone who lives & works in Newcastle (or lives & works in Sundance, etc) needs a 4WD vehicle.
Anyone agree?
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Alright. I think I'm starting to get the picture. The reason I'm asking about this area in particular is that it seems most of the FSWers are located there. Judging simply by geography, I figured that Crook and Weston would have more treacherous weather than Laramie, for instance, but as I said I'm interested in low population. I would probably live and work in town, at least initially, although I would prefer ultimately to reside in a more rural area. I just want to get an understanding of what to expect when (or if) I arrive. I don't want to be trapped due to snow and unable to go to work or in search thereof. Based on the responses I've gotten so far, it seems that you just can't tell what the weather will be like when or where on any given day. So, should I roll into Crook County in early September, what would be the worst case scenario for weather? And would you say, given the concerns I've expressed, that I'd just simply be better off in the Weston "banana belt"?
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So, should I roll into Crook County in early September, what would be the worst case scenario for weather? And would you say, given the concerns I've expressed, that I'd just simply be better off in the Weston "banana belt"?
Come and see. You are the only one who can truly answer your questions. It's still nice in September. Come in mid January if you want to see the worst. :) But nobody can predict exactly what that might be. You have to be willing to adapt and make do. You have to accept the fact that nothing in Wyoming will resemble Florida - at all. >:D
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Fair enough. I'm certainly willing and able to adapt and make do. It's at least some sort of comfort that my biggest concern is the weather. But I still may look into this "banana belt," even if it does sound eerily similar to a banana hammock. I hope it's nothing like that! :o
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Alright. I think I'm starting to get the picture. The reason I'm asking about this area in particular is that it seems most of the FSWers are located there. Judging simply by geography, I figured that Crook and Weston would have more treacherous weather than Laramie, for instance, but as I said I'm interested in low population. I would probably live and work in town, at least initially, although I would prefer ultimately to reside in a more rural area. I just want to get an understanding of what to expect when (or if) I arrive. I don't want to be trapped due to snow and unable to go to work or in search thereof. Based on the responses I've gotten so far, it seems that you just can't tell what the weather will be like when or where on any given day. So, should I roll into Crook County in early September, what would be the worst case scenario for weather? And would you say, given the concerns I've expressed, that I'd just simply be better off in the Weston "banana belt"?
I am relocating soon from Colorado. I am from Michigan originally. I have visited once last fall and once a few weeks ago. It seems roughly the same as Colorado and not quite as bad as northern Michigan.
I am a big believer in self sufficiency and a 4WD in these climates simply gives you more options.
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I dont have a 4x4. I live in Sundance. Ive been stuck a few times but usually for not watching where I was going. Usually a shovel will get you out of those situations. Generally if it snows a lot you just take a day off and the plows will clear the road fairly well. The most commonly seen vehicle in the ditch or stuck is a 4x4. Generally it is not about the vehicle. It is the driver.
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I agree, Crappie. It also REALLY helps if you have studded tires. I have a Jeep...older model, light body, studded tires and that bad girl will get you through lots. I call her 'Maggie'...short for Magic Jeep".
;-)
Kelly
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Welcome aboard RaisedByWolves,
If your mind is on weather and your heart is on FSW, then Laramie has the worst weather in the state! It is one of the few locations festering liberals in the state. All my vehicles are 4x4. Last week i had one truck stuck in snow on saturday and mud on the following monday. Same road about 50 meters apart. I live much further south than crook county but i drive through there twice a month. Since december, max speed has been from 80 to 20 mph on the interstate.
Ditto to Mama's claim..."nothing here resembles Florida"! Not weather, nor animals, nor soil, nor terrain, nor people.
pW
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OOPs
That should be fostering liberals...
my bad.
pW
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OOPs
That should be fostering liberals...
my bad.
pW
You were right the first time.... >:D
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My opinion.
It depends upon WHERE you live, work, and your lifestyle.
IF you live IN TOWN where they plow the roads often, and you live there, and your kids go to school there, then you'll have NO problem with 2WD. The government is taking care of you.
But, if you live outside the city, down 500' of driveway, and work 50 miles away, then you'll need a 4WD to get out daily.
They plow our county road about 1, 2, or 3 days AFTER a snowstorm. That's fine. We just know not to attempt to go anywhere for that period of time. We're retired. Have no need to get out (usually).
It's all about YOU.
Mac
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Actually you need two cars. The regular 2wd commuter that gets good mileage. And the 4wd truck that you need one day per year. :D
There were one or two times I wished I had a 4wd. Our house W of Cody is up a hill, and the gravel road to it was compressed snow with slick ice on top. I parked the car on the highway and walked up. :)
Of course if you are in the boonies, on a dirt road, you need a 4wd to drive in the mud in the spring and turn your road into a huge mess for the rest of the year.
Oh, about Laramie, that is one of the colder places in the state. Check the elevation.
Don't worry about weather, that's the least of your worries. People in Wyoming are pretty laid back anyway; you won't be fired for being an hour late on a snowy day. Worry about other things, like whether your spouse is on board for the move. Much more important...
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Mama and Pedro, indeed many places are festering with liberals these days. :D
"The government is taking care of you."
Was that a surreptitious jibe at town dwellers, Mac?
Paul, that all makes good sense. I hadn't thought about elevation. (duh! shortsighted Floridian)The weather is one of the few concerns I have in making the move, so the idea that it should be least of my worries is definitely encouraging. And indeed my wife is certainly on board. In judging the plausibility and necessity of making the move, I used her personal viewpoint on the upcoming developments in world events as the deciding factor. So not to worry, I won't be driving into WY with a woman chained to the roof.
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Mama and Pedro, indeed many places are festering with liberals these days. :D
"The government is taking care of you."
Was that a surreptitious jibe at town dwellers, Mac?
Paul, that all makes good sense. I hadn't thought about elevation. (duh! shortsighted Floridian)The weather is one of the few concerns I have in making the move, so the idea that it should be least of my worries is definitely encouraging. And indeed my wife is certainly on board. In judging the plausibility and necessity of making the move, I used her personal viewpoint on the upcoming developments in world events as the deciding factor. So not to worry, I won't be driving into WY with a woman chained to the roof.
It's not hard for a sea-level dweller to acclimate to high altitude/low oxygen... just put your head in a plastic bag before you go jogging... >:D ;) :-*
(Actually, wearing any sort of air-flow restrictive mask while jogging DOES help. Pick up a NIOSH paper filter mask at the hardware store to wear while working out...) :)
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I won't be driving into WY with a woman chained to the roof.
I'm right glad to hear that. :)
But the mental image made me laugh. :) Just wait until she meets Wyoming women. If she's on board now, watch out!! LOL
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I won't be driving into WY with a woman chained to the roof.
I'm right glad to hear that. :)
But the mental image made me laugh. :) Just wait until she meets Wyoming women. If she's on board now, watch out!! LOL
Aunt Edna?
Better than chained to the bumper... >:D
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The resta the group is obviously off their meds or suffering from some sort of dimentia!
Embrace the snow and cold. It's beautiful and FUN!! No bugs. No sweat. Mrs RaisedbyWolves gets to buy a whole new wardrobe. ;D
The skiing here is world class! Snowmobiling, snowshoeing, ice fishing, I could go on and on. Good excuse not to go to work. ;D
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The resta the group is obviously off their meds or suffering from some sort of dimentia!
Embrace the snow and cold. It's beautiful and FUN!! No bugs. No sweat. Mrs RaisedbyWolves gets to buy a whole new wardrobe. ;D
The skiing here is world class! Snowmobiling, snowshoeing, ice fishing, I could go on and on. Good excuse not to go to work. ;D
Saids the snow bunny
Woof
Dawg
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I lived in WI most of my life an hour from Lake Michigan and I never owned a 4x4 there. We got a shit load of snow. I lived on a farm 10 miles outside of town and we drove all the time in the winter on country roads (10 cars per day), lots of times when there was only an inch or two the road wouldn't even have been plowed and we'd drive on it. We had pickups that weren't 4x4 on the farm. In my opinion its over rated. I have 4x4 on my Bronco here in NH (I'm moving today!!) and I only had to use it twice last winter. But last winter was weak as hell across the nation. I don't live in WY yet but I can't imagine its that different in terms of snow. My employer was telling me that the snow here is more powdery and it blows away right away, but that it can be really slippery. So not as much slush I guess. But he was talking about Casper. Does the snow really vary that much region to region in WY? Think about it, there probably is no place in the entire country where there is more than a handful of big snowstorms during the winter in which you would want to have a 4x4. Most places where it snows there are on average only a few of these cases per year.
I wouldn't worry about it. 4x4 comes in handy if you are launching boats on steep ramps or pulling something through the mud or mudding or plowing or pulling someone out, or if there is a snowstorm and you really need to drive in it. Not much other than that. If after the first winter using just a car you decide you want 4x4, go for it.
People mostly are risk averse, that's why everyone in Fort Collins has a Subaru. So what, there's a little bit greater risk you get stuck or can't go as fast on the freeway. Big deal. 4x4 has disadvantages too you know. Gas mileage, more potential mechanical issues are two I know of.
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The big difference with our snow and cold is that we don't have the monster "lake effect," the wet, heavy snow or ice storms so common in some parts of the east. It's dry here, all year round. :)
If this old gal from the So. Calif. desert can adapt, anyone else should be able to with not too much effort. It's a state of mind more than anything else. :)
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I dont have a 4x4 and 90% of the time there is really no need for them if you live in a town. If you live outside of town they are mandatory and There are times when the roads are nothing but Ice and the only way to drive over them is with 4x4 and chains.
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If you live outside of town they are mandatory and There are times when the roads are nothing but Ice and the only way to drive over them is with 4x4 and chains.
County roads sometimes don't get plowed for several days and then even the 4x4 pickup isn't enough. We have been snowbound for several day at least three times in our 20 years here. A big tractor and some good attachments help things get back to normal.
Wyoming is a wonderful place to live !
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If you live outside of town they are mandatory and There are times when the roads are nothing but Ice and the only way to drive over them is with 4x4 and chains.
County roads sometimes don't get plowed for several days and then even the 4x4 pickup isn't enough. We have been snowbound for several day at least three times in our 20 years here. A big tractor and some good attachments help things get back to normal.
Wyoming is a wonderful place to live !
I like the idea of 4x4 trucks (they look cool) but I don't like the idea of paying 20% more(???) for both the vehicle & mainanance for 20 years for three bad storms. It might be cheaper to rent a helocopter 3 times. >:D
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I like the idea of 4x4 trucks (they look cool) but I don't like the idea of paying 20% more(???) for both the vehicle & mainanance for 20 years for three bad storms. It might be cheaper to rent a helocopter 3 times. >:D
I agree that 4x4 outfits may cost more, burn more fuel and be more costly to maintain. We use our 4x4 outfit(s) in a cow-calf operation, we drive through soggy wet pastures and hay fields and haul ranch related stuff around the place. It's a definite convenience to be able to get out of a soft spot by yourself instead of walking miles to get the tractor and help, to get out of the mud. We probably could get by with a two wheel drive machine or even get a team and do the work the old way. You'll need to find what works for you, in your particular situation and go from there.
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It actually depends on where you live, your specific situation.
For the most part, 2WD works just fine in Wyoming, and I can easily drive from our house back and forth to Cody, and all over the place. However the last bit by our house, going uphill on gravel with packed snow, I've often wished I had 4WD. But I never wished for it enough to actually go out and buy one. Instead, on those days I can't drive up to the house, I just park on the highway and walk up. It's usually a nice walk. Now, that wouldn't be viable if the walk was a couple miles rather than a couple of tenths of a mile.
One pattern I've seen over and over is that it's clear sailing on the highways, packed snow in town. In town there is more traffic and when it snows it immediately gets packed down, while out of town the wind more easily blows the snow off the road.
I wouldn't buy 4WD unless I tried going without it for a while, where I was going to live. Unless you really just like having it, which is a different thing.
<later> Sheesh, I see I already posted on this one. I need to pay attention more...
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At least you are consistent Paul, you are allowed to forget what you have said if it was the truth, and it will always come out the same. ;D
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Where I live, having a 4WD truck with chains is mandatory. I have to plow 2 miles of road and my driveway is a 20% grade.
Also use it during the summer to drag trees to burning locations after I cut them down. A 2WD truck won't even go up my driveway in dry conditions without throwing rock out into the next county.
Living in town on plowed level streets is a totally different situation.
Mac
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The resta the group is obviously off their meds or suffering from some sort of dimentia!
Yup...have been since i immigrated here...no more need for them!
Embrace the snow and cold. It's beautiful and FUN!! No bugs. No sweat. Mrs RaisedbyWolves gets to buy a whole new wardrobe. ;D
Did i mention i am an immigrant? From much further south?
The skiing here is world class! Snowmobiling, snowshoeing, ice fishing, I could go on and on. Good excuse not to go to work. ;D
Eh, maybe...so is "It is too damn cold to get out of bed!"
;D
pW
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Growing up here, we never had 4WD and went everywhere. If a hill was too slick, my Dad turned around and backed up. We lived 35 mi. from town and did a lot of hunting, with 2WD. Also did a lot of pushing and digging. LOL
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So I would recommend studying topographic maps of the area around where you plan on living to determine if you need 4x4. If you have a driveway with 20% grade, get a 4wd. In Casper, I don't even need a car let alone a 4x4.
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No car at all you say? Care to elaborate on that?
Does that mean you use some other means of transport, or that everything is within walking distance?
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My workplace is 3.8 miles from my apartment. I'm a cyclist. I leave my place around 6am when the traffic is light and the temperature low in the summer. Its a very pleasant ride to work in the summer. I don't have a problem taking the route with my bike in the winter. I did it every day 3 miles in windy city chicago where there was slush. But I could live right downtown and be within walking distance.
Other than that I bike for my regular places like the gym and for groceries both are close. Or I can coordinate trips with my roomate or coworkers. My coworker lives just down the road so I can choose to ride with him to work and back if I want too.
Also there is a bus and taxi service in Casper. Also there is a couple rental car companies. Even if I rent a car from these places 3 days a week Id be saving a lot on owning a vehicle, gas, maintenence, taxes, registration, insurance, the vehicle itself.
I don't need a car living in Casper and I wouldn't need one in Cheyenne either. You have that option when you are in good shape and have a nice bike :D. That said, I will be purchasing a small truck because I am a sportsman and will want to bring my bike or kayak or canoe or atv along where I go. But even so I could rent a truck from enterprise. My work has a corporate account there I can use. So all in all it isn't necessary.
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My workplace is 3.8 miles from my apartment. I'm a cyclist. I leave my place around 6am when the traffic is light and the temperature low in the summer. Its a very pleasant ride to work in the summer. I don't have a problem taking the route with my bike in the winter. I did it every day 3 miles in windy city chicago where there was slush. But I could live right downtown and be within walking distance.
Other than that I bike for my regular places like the gym and for groceries both are close. Or I can coordinate trips with my roomate or coworkers. My coworker lives just down the road so I can choose to ride with him to work and back if I want too.
Also there is a bus and taxi service in Casper. Also there is a couple rental car companies. Even if I rent a car from these places 3 days a week Id be saving a lot on owning a vehicle, gas, maintenence, taxes, registration, insurance, the vehicle itself.
I don't need a car living in Casper and I wouldn't need one in Cheyenne either. You have that option when you are in good shape and have a nice bike :D. That said, I will be purchasing a small truck because I am a sportsman and will want to bring my bike or kayak or canoe or atv along where I go. But even so I could rent a truck from enterprise. My work has a corporate account there I can use. So all in all it isn't necessary.
It's not always true, but if you have a good downtown and you both live & work there you don't need a car. (Even if there is no public transit.) In my home town (was population 7,000 now 10,000) they have everything you need within 6 blocks of the downtown area. Lots of older people live there. The biggest new problem is the big box stores & chains getting built on the edge of town. If you're on a fixed or low income the $300 or more per month for a vehicle can really hurt.
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Thanks for the info, guys. Sounds fairly urban - in Wyoming terms that is.
Where I live currently, hardly anyone resides downtown because, frankly, it's not a place anyone wants to live.
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All my vehicles have block heaters. Some nites around here can get way below ZERO. I have seen in at 48 degrees below zero.
I also live in Bentonite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentonite) country. When that stuff gets wet and the roads here are filled with it, forget it if you don't have a 4x4 with some grip to your tires.
It is not so much the snow it is the cold and the wind that can kill you if you are not smart about travel and survival. Keep your vehicles very well maintained, always carry a weapon and a couple warm jackets and gloves in your truck at all times. Oh and water and a portable charged battery for jump starting. A tool box, fan belts, a couple Gerry Cans of fuel and a flare gun.
That should do it.
Thomas
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A good heavy sleeping bag is something I'm sure to have when driving around in winter.
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The resta the group is obviously off their meds or suffering from some sort of dimentia!
Yup...have been since i immigrated here...no more need for them!
Embrace the snow and cold. It's beautiful and FUN!! No bugs. No sweat. Mrs RaisedbyWolves gets to buy a whole new wardrobe. ;D
Did i mention i am an immigrant? From much further south?
The skiing here is world class! Snowmobiling, snowshoeing, ice fishing, I could go on and on. Good excuse not to go to work. ;D
Eh, maybe...so is "It is too damn cold to get out of bed!"
;D
pW
Went skying up above Worland at the Meadowlark Ski Lodge when it was 15 below zero. Not too bad, but the lift up was a chilling ride in the wind.
You get used to it and it makes you feel alive.
There is a lake right next to the resort too. Skinny dipping is not on the agenda during the winter season.
Thomas