Free State Wyoming Forum
Discussions Not Related To Free State Wyoming (FSW) => Everything Else => Topic started by: Cyclonesteve on April 20, 2014, 08:29:52 PM
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I saw this website and just had to show SOMEONE the cool little toys people build.
The first link is for a mobile 500 gal fuel trailer. I think you can get them in gasoline or diesel versions. From a craigslist posting it looks like they sell for about $6,000.
http://www.ricefueltrailers.com/fuel_trailer_500_gallons.asp (http://www.ricefueltrailers.com/fuel_trailer_500_gallons.asp)
http://www.ricefueltrailers.com/fuel_trailer_500_gallons.asp
The second link is for a 990 gallon mobile gas station with a generator and duel air compressors. The one I saw was gas and selling for $12,000 but they also had a 750 gallon diesel version for $16,000. Don't know why the different price and capacity.
http://www.ricefueltrailers.com/default.asp (http://www.ricefueltrailers.com/default.asp)
http://www.ricefueltrailers.com/default.asp
I guess if someone wants the fuel storage but doesn't think their current address is going to stick this would be a cool, if expensive, way to have the best of both worlds. ;D
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So I was in the store looking at Sta-bil and it got me to thinking about diesel.
I've seen a lot of gasoline stabilizers and some diesel additives but I've never really seen any diesel stabilizers. I've read in books that diesel stays good longer and that some kind of bacteria will grow in a tank that is left to sit but I've never really gotten the A, B, C's on how to properly preserve diesel fuel. Any facts or suggestions on where I can learn more?
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Diesel does seem to have a long storage life and I have used the "Power Service" additive. I do not really know if it helped or not. It seems that a lot of people agree that "PRI-D" is the best diesel preservative. The stuff is VERY expensive, but I figure four cents a gallon is a good investment to keep my diesel good for every year of storage.
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Those trailers are awesome, thanks for sharing.
I have a bottle of PRI-D but have never used it.
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Those trailers are awesome, thanks for sharing.
I have a bottle of PRI-D but have never used it.
No problem, I thought people might like them.
I guess I want to know if your bottle of PRI-D will really extend the life of diesel fuel. It might make the engine run smoother but I can't find anything about what REALLY extends the life. In particular I haven't seen anything that claims to inhibit these phantom bacteria that I've heard about.
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To share my meager store of knowledge on this... ;)
The bacteria are really more a problem with biodiesel than with regular diesel. I never heard of anyone complaining about bacteria before people started making biodiesel. I can report from experience that in a year or two, B100 will turn into soup if it does not have a biocide in it.
Unfortunately biodiesel is used to add some much needed lubricity to ULSD. I don't know how bad the bacteria problem will be with B5 or B10. But maybe the way to store diesel long term is to get diesel without any biodiesel, and add some other lubricity enhancer either before storage or when taking it out of storage. If you store biodiesel, then definitely use a biocide.
BTW there actually IS a version of Sta-Bil for diesel out there. I have used it myself. I don't know if it helps much, but it's pretty cheap so I don't worry. I just cycle through my stored diesel once a year. I also no longer have that 250 gallon tank any more - it's a lot harder to cycle through that much! At 50mpg I would have to drive over 12k miles to cycle through, and at the rate I drive these days that would be quite a while.
You don't need to spend anywhere near $6000 to get fuel storage. Just buy one of those used "totes" that come up for sale now and then.
My "philosophy" of storage is not to be able to farm for 5 years after diesel production ceases from an EMP attack, or whatever, but only enough to get me somewhere safer than where I am now. You have to figure out what you are going to do with the stuff, and why you are keeping it.
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To share my meager store of knowledge on this... ;)
The bacteria are really more a problem with biodiesel than with regular diesel. I never heard of anyone complaining about bacteria before people started making biodiesel. I can report from experience that in a year or two, B100 will turn into soup if it does not have a biocide in it.
Unfortunately biodiesel is used to add some much needed lubricity to ULSD. I don't know how bad the bacteria problem will be with B5 or B10. But maybe the way to store diesel long term is to get diesel without any biodiesel, and add some other lubricity enhancer either before storage or when taking it out of storage. If you store biodiesel, then definitely use a biocide.
BTW there actually IS a version of Sta-Bil for diesel out there. I have used it myself. I don't know if it helps much, but it's pretty cheap so I don't worry. I just cycle through my stored diesel once a year. I also no longer have that 250 gallon tank any more - it's a lot harder to cycle through that much! At 50mpg I would have to drive over 12k miles to cycle through, and at the rate I drive these days that would be quite a while.
You don't need to spend anywhere near $6000 to get fuel storage. Just buy one of those used "totes" that come up for sale now and then.
My "philosophy" of storage is not to be able to farm for 5 years after diesel production ceases from an EMP attack, or whatever, but only enough to get me somewhere safer than where I am now. You have to figure out what you are going to do with the stuff, and why you are keeping it.
"Biocide"...that's the word I'm looking for. Thank You! :)
Below are a couple links for anyone who is interested.
http://powerservice.com/psp_product/bio-kleen-diesel-fuel-biocide/
http://powerservice.com/psp_product/bio-kleen-diesel-fuel-biocide/ (http://powerservice.com/psp_product/bio-kleen-diesel-fuel-biocide/)
http://www.amazon.com/Power-Service-09016-09-Diesel-Biocide/dp/B005IUP9LC
http://www.amazon.com/Power-Service-09016-09-Diesel-Biocide/dp/B005IUP9LC (http://www.amazon.com/Power-Service-09016-09-Diesel-Biocide/dp/B005IUP9LC)
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You don't need to spend anywhere near $6000 to get fuel storage. Just buy one of those used "totes" that come up for sale now and then.
These are great for liquid storage and at maybe a couple hundred bucks each are a great deal.
The question for me is...Will a commercial diesel supplier come to your place and fill one of those with diesel?
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You don't need to spend anywhere near $6000 to get fuel storage. Just buy one of those used "totes" that come up for sale now and then.
These are great for liquid storage and at maybe a couple hundred bucks each are a great deal.
The question for me is...Will a commercial diesel supplier come to your place and fill one of those with diesel?
Interesting project that's come out of this thread: Place a tote, somewhere, and start filling with "cheap" gas.
At these rates, it seems worth filling it up a little at a time building the trips naturally
into errands.
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You don't need to spend anywhere near $6000 to get fuel storage. Just buy one of those used "totes" that come up for sale now and then.
These are great for liquid storage and at maybe a couple hundred bucks each are a great deal.
The question for me is...Will a commercial diesel supplier come to your place and fill one of those with diesel?
Interesting project that's come out of this thread: Place a tote, somewhere, and start filling with "cheap" gas.
At these rates, it seems worth filling it up a little at a time building the trips naturally
into errands.
Sure, I can do that but what I want is diesel for off road equipment (tractor/genset, etc.) and not a car. No need to pay the road taxes on diesel for those uses. Hence the question about delivery.
Of course the lower storage cost might offset much of that.
Thanks
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My biodiesel supplier filled my tank at home for free IIRC. But that was a very small operation; I don't know what the bigger companies will charge. If too much to stomach, just buy two totes and put one on your trailer, get some diesel at the station and transfer over to the other when you get home. Can't hurt to have two of those things!
The only problems I can think of to worry about with those totes is to keep them out of the sun, and maybe wrap with hardware cloth to avoid any gnawing by small animals (clean up the outsides to make sure there is no syrup left to draw them in). If you are storing biodiesel you also have to worry what you use for a hose, as biodiesel consumes ordinary rubber hoses.
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Paul,
That makes sense to just have two totes if I can haul one somewhere and get off road diesel in it an bring it home.
A friend of mine is big into running his diesel cars on 'grease', not converted to bio-diesel, just highly filtered left over cooking oil.
He's done considerable work to convert several cars and truck to run on this and FWIW his totes full of this stuff sit in the sun full time without any issues. I'm not certain what he does in terms of a biocide?
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A friend of mine is big into running his diesel cars on 'grease', not converted to bio-diesel, just highly filtered left over cooking oil.
Yuck. I have been studying and getting into making biodiesel, and I have read quite a bit about systems to burn filtered oil. Mercedes engines have a reputation to run on anything combustible, and a lot of people have success throwing garbage into them.
I'm not certain what he does in terms of a biocide?
If all the fryer crap is filtered out, there may not be much for the germs to work with. I don't know about biocides for WVO, but I am looking at BHT as an anti-oxidant for my biodiesel:
http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=BHT08oz
I am also planning to use this as a biocide for my biodiesel:
http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=biobor16oz
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I've been lead to believe that cooking oil will work but that it solidifies at a much higher temp than biodiesel which itself gels sooner than #1 diesel.
I read in a fictional book about having mixed fuels they had a diesel/biodiesel tank and a cooking oil tank and how the owner started and turned off the engine while running the "good stuff" so the engine would not have problems starting but switched to cooking oil when just running the engine for extended periods.
BTW: If your diesel wholesaler won't come to you wouldn't you be able to go to them? ;)
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Grease is what he calls it. It is cooking oil from deep fryers.
All of his vehicles that he has converted are Volkswagen TDi I think?
I know that he pre-filters the oil then settles it and then filters using a 1 micron filter and then it generally sets for extended periods of time to allow any further solids to settle. He figures it's cleaner than commercial diesel WRT particulates.
Must have 4 or 5 totes of the stuff.
He has a separate 'grease' tank, a pre-heater on this tank, fuel lines and injectors.
He in fact starts and shuts down on regular diesel and runs his 'grease' once up to temperature.
This would make it a long way between fill ups of the main tank.
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If all the fryer crap is filtered out, there may not be much for the germs to work with.
No, I don't think that's right. I think the germs eat the fuel itself. Even biodiesel made from pure vegetable stock is going to need biocide.
I could be wrong about that, though! :)
I continued to run that B100 in my VW TDI for about 15k miles, even though it was looking pretty soupy toward the end. Sounds reckless, I know, but it was an old car and I considered it an experiment, worth the risk, because I too had heard diesels could run on anything. The short term drawback was plugged fuel filters, so I started carrying a spare around. Some time after I quit and went back to "dino" diesel, my injection pump started leaking. I took it into a little shop in Cody that worked on foreign cars. He took the pump apart and asked me, "What the Hell have you been running in this thing?" He said the whole pump was a corroded mess. It took a lot of dollars to fix. Ah, the sacrifices I make in the name of science... :P
Anyway, my enthusiasm for biodiesel waned quite a bit. Now I still like it at B5 to add lubricity, but only fresh and from a reputable supplier. Not these little operations in the shed in somebody's back yard. B5 or B20 is now sold all over the Portland area by the big companies, so I think that is OK (although my new TDI Passat warranty says to use nothing over B5).