Free State Wyoming Forum
Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Topic started by: Fred Rogers on April 01, 2006, 06:40:38 AM
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Hello to the forum,
I'm new here. I came here by way of the information trail, another forum and a user named Archy's page that linked here, several books I recently came across: Boston T. Party's Gun Bible and then Molon Labe, which I am reading, at page 37 or so. Actually, it's page 147.
I live in the USA, northern state, lots of woods, streams, and still 24" of snow on the ground and I'm not kidding. Just a twist of fate that I happened to arrive here April 1st.
I'm not entirely comfortable posting much more than I will swing by at times, I'm interested in the Free State of Wyoming, and although I live in what I consider paradise, I've wandered in the past.
My 15 minutes is running out, so I'll click "post" for now and return in the future.
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Welcome Fred, lots of info here, keep the info trail going for us. Miles
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Good Morning Miles,
Thank you for replying.
I believe I read elsewhere here that you are in Colorado and that you spent much of you life in Wyoming.? And if I'm reading right, we must be the same age.? Sounds like we're both married, as well.? My wife and I will have been married 10 years come September and though we've been doing our best, we haven't been blessed with children.? We had three spinger spaniels and in January I had to put down the two we still had after our first was left sleeping on the vet's table December 04.? All three are under an old acorn-producing white oak out in the woods.
I've been self-employed since 1989, starting out in Iowa on my own and moving back to the U.P. of Michigan in April 92.? Dad was in poor health and after coming up here from North Liberty when he'd gotten sick several times during the colder months, I saw other construction crews working.? Dad was a carpenter, as well, but winters with lots of snow make making a living hard.?
Since 97 I've had to fight unelected state bureaucrats for the privilege of walking out my front door to make a living.? Dad's office was a small notebook in his front shirt pocket and his contract was his word and integrity.? That no longer suffices and I experienced a new concept in forced-schooling, as well as personal experience with double and triple jeopardy.? In two months time, I expect to learn if jeopardy will be extended another time, or if the sun has set, and I can go about my business.
I believe we also share an interest in gardening.? A window into an addition I put on the house last year has a table by it with 46 tomato plants, transplanted from larger boxes when each plant reached four leaves of growth.? Four or five varieties, cherry and larger, early and late pick.? A closet in the same addition has a bunch of pickles and salsa, as well as jars of plum jam from trees on the border w/our neighbor, and jars of wild rasberry, wild black berry, and farm-picked strawberry.
I'm a third-generation American, from Finnish roots, of which I am proud.? The Soumalainen's history has within it a grain of the saying, "it is easier to conquer than rule".? Several uncles on Dad's side of the family went back to "the old country" to fight when Russia invaded.? There's an old Russian rifle in the family used by my step-grandma's father, a Suominen, that fought on the Soviet side.? There is a large population of Finns here in this part of the country.? Any there in Wyoming or Colorado?? Any Kauppi, Ojala, Wanahapiha, Kangas, or Hyrkas names in the phone book?? Huumo, Hautaaho, Kauppinen and Haarakangas are some of the names in my tree, although my grandfather on Dad's side never new his father, who was killed in a mine.? His mother remarried and the name was changed.? My wife has French and Irish roots, but she's still the best thing that ever happened to me.
I'm a vet, navy, Carter years, nothing to brag about.? Decommissioned the McCain, carried the national ensign during the ceremony, color guard, picked from ship's crew.? I guess John was in attendance, though I didn't know him or talk to him.? My other ship is now razor blades, as well.? I feel old.
College grad, BA, English, Florida (UF) 1987.? Two weeks before graduation, got a call from Mom.? Cancer.? Melanomma.? Mestasized.? Didn't look that word up, finished up, packed up, went hom to the UP to watch her die, Oct 87.? Dad left election day, 2000.? Both Democrats, both held local township office.? So my registration says I'm Democrat.? Voted the lesser of two evils the last two presidential elections.? Stupak, our rep, had my vote first couple elections, lost it, this last election. He said yes to BCFR.
NRA life member. Wife $35 a year member.? Both have carry permits.
No, haven't become a member yet of GOA or any other.? I knew about NRA, only recently, last five years or so have I heard about other groups and only recently became aware of some folks' opinion of the NRA.? They've been around a long time and they do good.? Wife won a knife of the year at an NRA Friends banquet three weeks ago--has a buffalo carving, along with the knife.? Perhaps that says something?
Buddy of mine, last I heard, went to Wyoming.? We were in boot camp together, from same area. Haven't heard from him in years.? Others from this area go there to hunt.? I'm interested, what with banging my head w/unelected bureaucrats and all.? Almost made it there in 84.? Had headed south from the UP to the LP looking for work, headed west on 80 w/Wymoning as a possible goal, stopped in Des Moines for a burger, looked in the paper, saw some work listed, made a call, looked for place, stayed there, never made it to Wyoming.
How likely is it that one would find work in the NW or Hot Springs county?? Wife works in a bank, has been doing so for...15 years or so?? I said I'm a carpenter.? Would rather work for myself.? Any carpenters head to South Dakota from NW Wyoming to work?? Sounds like that Crook County only has 6,000 some people.? Pretty hard to pound nails for anyone if there isn't anyone that wants work done.?
Well, enough of that.? Let's see what happens now.
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Hi Fred,
Hunter here.
1st of all a big.................
"Welcome"
I used ta live in Washington, Ia. :'(
Learned ta hate black & gold, as in "how bout dem Hawks" :)
I returned to WY many years ago ;D
You'll find well paying work here andl be able to start yer own shop with minimal state interference.
Skilled tradesmen are in demand and skilled workers are in short supply, jobs abound!!!!!!
SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND
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Thank you, Hunter.
Looked at an atlas, day dreaming again.? I think I posted "NW" earlier.? Meant "NE".? I was able to go to Carver-Hawkeye and the stadium, Bo's last year, tie game.? Saw the double OT BB.? I think everyone in the stands heard me hoot when Michigan went ahead at one point.? I know the bench looked up at me.
You hunt, hey.? I do too.? Freezer has a lot of venison.? This past season got a nice 8-pointer, two-and-a-half year old, at least, 50+ pounds of burger. Tree-stand, Tikka T-3 .270 Win, evening, watching a trail, 40 yards, he came crunching into the area, snow crusty.? Earlier I waiting for an hour as 6 does came in and bedded down anywhere from 30-50 yards away.? Try not moving a muscle for an hour.? They moved off and the buck came through just before dark-thirty.? I butcher them myself.? I'll have to check out the CWD.org website.? Know about it?? I know CWD is in that general area, Wyoming included.? No CWD here yet, southern Wisconsin, yes.
Been looking at NE on the map.? National Forest land around there.? Whitetails?? I bow hunt, as well. Addicted.
Does that work outlook include the whole state??
How about housing?? Bought this place in 92 for $6500.? Two br, one bath.? Now it's three br, 1 1/2 bath, attached garage, kennel, deck.? I remodelled another house the last winter.? Bought it for $19,000.00, 3br, 1 bath.? Now has 3br, 2bath, asking $75,000.00 for it.? Hope it sells soon.? Lookers, no takers,? yet.?
Town life would be okay, or anywhere.? Lot of housing around here is old, 50-60-70-80+ years.? Price range runs the gamut from a $10,000.00 nightmare in need of awakening to $350.000.00 shoreline awaiting an infopreneur and they're coming.?
Thanks again.
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Yeh, that's why they call me Hunter, I hunt, outfitted a bit too.
Jobs are pretty much state wide, housing is going up all over, so are prices. Some areas have had extreme $ jumps because of housing shortages. I've posted several times the statement "snoozers lose". Some believe me, others don't.
Me? I'm here, the price increases only benefit me.
Good whitetail hunting too :)
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Hi Fred, and welcome here!
You and your wife sound like just the kind of people we'd
like to have as neighbors. Few of us are "rock stars" or anybody
spectacular in any way--just average folks with an above-average
desire to live as free as possible.
Come on out to Wyoming sometime for a visit.
Our Jamboree is over Memorial Day Weekend in Worland.
Boston
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Thank you, Boston.
The wife is always looking to get away.? We don't do that enough.? I just looked at her work schedule on the calendar.? She has that whole weekend off, works the Tuesday, but she has off again on Wednesday.? I wouldn't have to ask her twice.? And being self-employed gives me some leeway, as well.
Maybe that house I remodelled will sell in time.?
Lots of info on the site here, I'm finding.? Will have to find a way to visit ASAP.
I guess you're the guy who wrote the books?? Have BGB, revised and ML.? I too would have liked to have seen the interviewer's expression when that Finn answered the questions.? Thanks for a good laugh.
Never would have imagined that life would take the turns it has.
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Howdy Fred, great reply above. I am 47 years old, live and work in Denver,married, children 16 and 14 ,girl and boy. Miss Wyoming terribly and hope that my work will bring me back to Wyoming in the next few years. I come from German/ Swedish roots but not to familiar with all those cool Finish names you have. Spent 27 years in Rock Springs Wyo. My older Brother spent his youth building homes there and I helped him build two for himself and family. His son is now building homes there and cannot keep up with the demand, they are in another boom and people are living in the motels, campers and tents so if you want to build Wyoming is the place. I am sure the Gillette area has the same demand for your skills and the commutes are easy. My Mom worked at banks and credit unions so I am pretty sure your wife would find work in Wyo too. Gardening is my passion but it seems I have less and less time for it each year. I dream of having a Wyo. greenhouse someday for fun and profit. Hunting is great in Wyo. We always had a full freezer too. Tell your wife that you need a vacation, just around the weekend of the JAM, and come and see us. I'll be the guy in the Ti Pi. Miles
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Thank you Miles,
I'm still figuring out this forum, as well as Wyoming. Visited several city-related websites like Gillette, Worland, Sheridan. Some of the housing prices are shocking, and enticing. On the one hand a business opportunity, on the other...well, I'm glad I can swing a hammer.
I've been looking for more info here on this Jamboree people talk about. I'm sure the info is here, just a matter of finding it. So, a jamboree is just another way of saying a bunch of you get together, talk, cook a bit over an open fire, and shoot a gun or two?
Oh yeah, I think I read something about a rifle made prior to 1955? I've Dad's ole Model 721 Remington, but I don't believe that qualifies. Seems like everything else I have is black. It would be nice to live where one could shoot far enough w/what one has one hand. Around here you'd need more than 80 acres for what I have in mind. Thought I read that some town even has a long range.
It would be great if my wife and I could get out there for that event. The trip would be a two day affair by car and that doesn't leave us much time, let alone get there for the event. So if we can make it, I'm guessing it will be last minute and by plane. If a couple of tourists show up, ask 'em if they know who St. Urho is. Thank you again. I'll look for the Ti Pi.
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Fred, check out the thread at http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=41.0 for conversations about the JAM. Miles
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My wife and I have a trip to Wyoming planned, that is, as long as the Wyoming trail is open to humans. Discovered that the airline that services this area, Northwest, must not fly directly into Wyoming. We'll be landing in Billings, renting a car, and heading for Cody to look at that museum with the guns in it. We've got four nights, I think it is. Between time deciding on flights and destinations and by the time she called back to reserve one, one flight was booked already.
We're figuring on likely spending a night in Cody, probably, and heading east to check things out. Will likely spend time in Gillette, another town or two in the NE, probably take at look at that Devil's Tower spot and the surrounding area before heading to Rapid City, where we will depart from four nights after touching down in Billings. :) Yee-haw.
What kind of cell-phone coverage does Wyoming have? There are areas here that are blank, none at all, my hometown included, down in a valley on a lake. Governor Granola came up for a visit and couldn't make calls in areas.
I haven't received my license renewal, yet, from the state, so I suspect I'm going to have to dance again with my state rep and senator. Want to know what the US would be like w/Hillary at the helm, look at Michigan, the highest unemployment rate, businesses moving, and the Japanese gave Governor Granola some sushi when she went begging for plants over there. I've had to go round and round with a bunch of ****! bureaucrats, unlected and unaccountable, since 97, just to work for a damn living! I never would have thought that I'd seriously be considering leaving this place I've that would be great if they'd just leave me the hell alone.
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Fred, Plan on lots of time at the museum and to look around Cody city. The museum is fantastic ! If you need some info on areas you may be driving through, see my post at
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=1929.0
It has lots of links, just read down to the part where I talk about Cody and go from there. I am sure there are others here who will add info( like about cell service) and even a few you will be able to visit with.
Will this be any time near the JAM time?
Miles
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Hi Miles,
Leave it to me to figure you all can read my mind.? After I posted I wondered if I said when we're coming.? We can't get down there until the end of June.? I think it's the 27th that we leave/arrive and I know we have four nights, leaving sometime around 3PM, I think your time, from Rapid City.? There's a two hour difference.? We're on the extreme west end of eastern standard (?) time.? Fourth of July fireworks don't go off until at least 10:30PM.
I'd read some posts about maps, BLM and maybe school land maps?? I'd like to pick some of that kind of stuff when we pass through, along with some topo-maps.? I may take the time to stop at some job sites (construction) and talk to the folk there, maybe hit 'em at kafve aiga, though I suspect at that time of the year it's iced tea or Coke.
We ought to pick up a bunch more of information, which is what I need to make plans and any and all advice would be sincerely appreciated.
Thank you!? FR
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First post up above on April 1st. #67 post here.
My wife and I are passing through your state June 27th and three four days following, coming in from Billings to the north to Cody for a day, museum stop, heading across the north of the state, schedule open, leaving from Rapid City 4 days later, or five? The wife knows. We may be able to connect with MamaLiberty. Anyone else available?
Two days here now, 48 hours I guess, at this site. Time to go.
I don't have a bobber in the water but I'll check back before we leave.
Bye ya'll.
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I'll be around in Sundance, and will be looking forward to seeing you. PM sent with my details...........
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Yippe ki-aye,
Next week this time should find my wife and I in and about Wyoming. Cody. Heading east. Will visit with one, possibly two.
I've recently read that this area of the country has 2300+ mine openings. Stephen King may find that appealing, what with a steady 50 degree temp most days, including rainy Tuesdays. The DNR is going to spend tax dollars to close some of them, maybe install a few bat bars.
I suspect these mine openings will one day be the doorway to an escape that some may not want to take. Legend has it that there's some sort of swamp ape there. Eats trailmix, no doubt.
Most areas have tourist guides and sightseers. Extend that, and everyone is either a tourist guide, or a sightseer.
A rising tide lifts all boats. The tide can't help but rise.
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The plot thickens.
Or something. My wife and I will be in Wyoming by this Tuesday, Cody, is all goes well. Overnight. We'll check out that musuem. There's some one and onlys there, or few and far betweens that I'd like to see.
In 1984, I was head to Wyoming on I-80. Made it as far as Des Moines. Here I am again. In '84, I was coming for work. In '06, I'm coming because the state in which I reside will not let me work without its permission. I am an angry man, thoroughly...(fill in the blank). There's something about double jeopardy in the paper known as the constitution. I've experienced multiple jeopardies and only those who give birth to multiple babies know what word describes the number I'm at.
I don't know what I'll find, though I have an idea. I am an angry man. Because I have to...no, not necassarily, I could stay here and wear vasaline...because I have to move to find what I shouldn't have to move to to find. I am thoroughly...
Because if it is to be it is up to me. And I've been known to fail miserably. God help us all.
A rising tide lifts all boats and the tide can't help but rise. Maybe that's another reason for my anger...the idea that things will change eventually and that I could stay put. I won't live that long.
Wyoming here I come. I'll fill you in on the details later.
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I'm coming because the state in which I reside will not let me work without its permission.
I'm sorry, but Wyoming is the same in that respect. See for example Title 33:
http://legisweb.state.wy.us/statutes/statutes.aspx
Wyoming may be more "reasonable" in the level of regulation, compared to, say, California. But it still does it. And the reason it does it, is that those in the various professions begged the state to do it. To exclude the low-priced competition, of course. It is the same everywhere.
It may be possible to turn this around in Wyoming. But it won't be easy.
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That Title 33 makes it sound like the local sheriff is responsible for enforcing such and such.? Although safety is a concern, with the anti-business climate prevalent in the US of A, raising those concerns along with the attendant claim that there are unscrupulous businessmen taking advantage of the unwary, is all it takes to increase the size of that gigantic nose called government.? Like cocaine, safety and protection is a theme that the nose willingly sniffles. And an unappreciated public is more than willing to look for, safety, protection...
Here in the great lakes state, unelected bureaucrats writing regulation and law is the definiton of something they tried for seventy years in Russia.? It didn't work there.? Why do people think that it can work here?? And in my case, when those same bureucrats have the three powers of government within their power, their flippant use of that power is felt by one, myself, alone, though I am but one of many.? No checks.? No balances.? Just blantant abuse of power and flippant and whimsical use of it.
Let's see, perhaps you should take a contract writing course.? Time passes.? We learn none is available, though the HBA has a disc and a book, written by a construction lawyer.? But that would be too easy.? Let us decide, then, for you to take a business law class. And it's a new concept in forced schooling, a win-win situation.? Never mind double jeopardy, triple, or quad, or whatever they have given birth to by now.? They are calling this latest punishment "voluntary".? Just sprayed the monitor. Sorry.
The sad and unfortunate truth is that there are those who buy the spiel.? Yeah, let's license people.? Nevermind that kings and queens in England decided who whould work in a given occupation.? ?Licensing has gone on for so long now that even if the rock could be stopped at the precipice, the likelihood of balancing it there is almost nil.? I'm willing to try balancing it there.? I believe it can be done.
Anyway, in 12 hours or less, my wife and I should be in the air and heding west.? If I was 21, I'd be there already, lock, stock and both barrels.? But I'm not.? I'm 47 in August and self-employed and this trip is a sacrifice.? Construction.? 200"+ of snow over the winter, lack of work.? Summetime.
We come back, I may pack it up and move.? This trip is a scouting mission.? I hope it all works out.
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My wife and I visited the great state of Wyoming at the end of June.
One word describes the state.? Awesome.? Incredible works as well.? If you've never been, go.
Noticeably lacking as we drove through is the absence of signs, the kind that say "visit Rock City," "mystery spot" and the like.? That kind of signage is visibly missing, at least across the north of the state where we traveled.
There is one sign we noticed, clearly an understatement, and nicely ambiguous, that tells motorists, "scenic area ahead".? ?My wife and I were amused each time we saw this sign, because when we looked around us, scenic areas were everywhere.? Apparently, these signs inform folk that they should slow down--the posted speed is often at least 65 MPH, 75 MPH on the interstate--so they can take advantage of a widened shoulder to stop and get out of the way of the another missing ingredient, roads filled with numerous travelers.
We landed in Billings, Montana on Tuesday, the 27th of June, and an experience in itself.? The airport is built on a bluff, a kind of plateau, and as I watched the ground rise to meet the descending plane, there was an alarming surprise as we touched down much before I expected.
After renting a car, we headed south toward Cody on Hwy 120.? We realized we were in Wyoming when we saw a sign, a "Welcome to Wyoming" sign made of wood, two round poles with the bark pulled off, stained dark, a round pole at the top, and a stained and painted wood plaque welcoming us.? Of course, we had to stop.? While we were taking pictures of each other, another motorist heading north pulled onto the widened shoulder and offered to take our photo.
I apologized for our obsolete digital camera, though he had yet to walk over to us.? Prior to departure, my wife picked up a small piece of technology, I believe it's called a photo card, the device that stores the pictures.? The saleswoman at the store here in Michigan had a condescending attitude, remarked that anything less than 8 million megapixels, or something like that, was inferior and shouldn't be considered by higher forms of evolution.? ?My wife thought, but didn't say aloud that we just wanted to take some pictures and to have enough capacity to take a lot of them.? The saleswoman asked my wife how big of a card she desired.? My wife shrugged and said 50 or so.? The saleswoman scoffed that nothing that inferior is even manufactured.? She purchased one that is advertised to hold 250, more on that later. This is life.
The other motorist told us it didn't matter what kind of camera we had and we felt confident in his abilities to capture the moment.? He did.? Admirably.? I felt awkward and embarrassed about being attended to by this stranger.? He asked where we were from.? Michigan.? Where in Michigan?? The Upper Peninsula.? Where?? Lake Linden.? He was from Michigan.? He was from Escanaba, about 2-3 hours south of home.? He'd moved to Colorado for the skiing, moved to Montana when the crowds moved there, too.? Where you headed?? Cody.? Going to Yellowstone?? No.? He was clearly disappointed in our answer.? We explained that we were short on time.? We left.? Continued south on Hwy 120, being amused at the "scenic area ahead" signs. Folk in Wyoming have a subtle sense of humor.
(Continued below)
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Heading south, off to the right is a mountain ridge and as I recall, it's called the Beartooth Mountain Range.? Off to the left are smooth hills, valleys, gulleys, few trees, and shrubs.? I think we saw one lone pronghorn a thousand yards off to the left.? Any map will tell you that you cross streams, and we did.? Looking across the land, you don't see the streams until you cross them, have no idea they're there, as the rising and rolling hills and sharply cut zigzags of loosely strewn rock conceal both streams and I imagine wildlife just as well as a forest full of trees.? The water of the streams has a unique color, not the dark blue of a big lake, but a blue-green that is hard to read.? The water we saw was often rippled, moving fast, and there was nothing to indicate depth by appearance.
Just outside Cody, there is a sign saying, "Cody Shooting Range".? ?I wanted to go back later and check it out but didn't.? Looking at the terrain, I imagine if you wanted to discover what your rifle would pattern at five miles, you could.? A few days later, when we left Cody on US Hwy 14-16-20, I was happy to see another sign, this one telling us there is a "Cody Archery Range". Judging from the road, I'd hazard that elevated practice is possible without the need of a platform, although I can't verify that, since the presence of a range is enough for me.
We stayed two nights in Cody at the Irma Hotel, built by Buffalo Bill way back when.
There is a restaurant-saloon attached to the Irma, named after William Cody's daughter, and the cherry wood bar, or shelving behind it, were a gift from the queen of England.? Tin ceiling, wood booths, tables in the middle, shoulder mounts of buffalo, mule deer, a moose as I recall, and paintings, one big enough that I'd need to remodel the house to make a wall big enough to hang it on.? Fifteen rooms of the Irma are remodeled Victorian style.? Our room was newer, front corner, and about fifty Harleys were parked outside the window.? The toilet had a flush box mounted on the wall six feet up with a chain and a wooden pull.? Yes, we took a picture, with the paper tape still attached to the wooden seat.
Every evening at 6, the Cody Gunfighters enact a shootout just off the porch of the Irma, in the street.? Characters that look like Buffalo Bill, Wild Bill and about 8 others entertained about 200 tourists from all over.?
Off to the west, there is a nightly rodeo for most of the summer, and worth seeing, including a five-year-old barrel racer who knew how to ride a Wyoming SUV, four legs, saddle, reins, loaded, with attitude.
Further west is the Buffalo Bill dam, the highest dam around, when built, way back when.? Worth seeing.? And another indication of how the terrain hides things.? While at the rodeo, I had no idea there was a stream almost within throwing distance that runs between two hills with a gap between, to the west of Cody.
In Cody, there is the Buffalo Bill Historical Center, a complex of museums that would take a week to enjoy thoroughly.? The firearms museum had somewhere around 3,000 items on display, tagged and explained, including the arms that defended the birth of our nation and every arm since then that has been used to define who we are, as well as the arms they have gone up against.? There is also a Japanese-made Garand, one of about 200, discontinued due to poor workmanship and I suspect a testament to the idea that sometimes it is easier to conquer than it is to rule.? A day isn't long enough to take it all in.
When we left Cody, we took US Hwy 14-16-20 east toward Greybull, my wife taking pictures every fifty feet of the scenery.? The road between Greybull and Burgess Junction, US 14, and the views to either side is breath taking.? My wife created an additional brake on the passenger side of our rental, somewhat primitive and Flintstones technology, but understandable.
Shell Canyon is a "scenic area ahead" with numerous and comical signs announcing it.? We had a memorable moment when my wife began shrieking after I headed off across the other lane toward a scenic area without announcing my intentions.? This was a watershed event in our life and I've since been instructed in the finer art of spousal relations and communications.
The route passes through, over, around, and back again on the Big Horn Mountains, the road engineers outdoing themselves, providing the traveler with a multitude of perspective of each scenic area though I'm still not sure which way one should face when viewing the area. While stopped I turned in all directions trying to determine which way I should be facing, snapping pictures the whole time, and after a period of study, I'm confident I'll be able to come back and say what it was, whether it was that sheer wall of rock rising and falling a jagged thousand feet or more off to the left, or that Ponderosa pine covered valley and hill off to the right, or that whitewater rapids and waterfall a couple hundred feet down below disappearing around a tall hallway of cut rock and shadows.
Coming down the eastern side of the Bighorns, we had a close encounter with what I believe was a mule deer.? Her ears were bigger than the whitetail I'm familiar with, but like the deer here, the encounter happened when a semi, the only one in all of Wyoming, was coming the other way.? So of course, all three of us had to meet at what may have been a scenic area, neither one of us being able to ponder what direction we should be facing as we were all busy trying to avoid bumping into each other, congestion, Wyoming-style.? As I made a graceful maneuver past the mulie, the mulie responded in kind by gracefully avoiding the front bumper of the semi, a Kodak moment.? This is life.
US 14 connects with I-90 north of Sheridan and we headed east on 90, passing through Sheridan, Buffalo, mountain views to the right and smooth hills rising and falling for miles to the left.? ?Traffic was light, 75 was the posted speed, one of the few times I drove below the limit--there's so much to look at--and we stayed on 90 through to Gillette, where we started to devote time to the other reason for our trip--scouting Wyoming for a potential relocation.
But not on an empty stomach.? We stopped at a Perkins, lunchtime, and at a table nearby, a couple ladies, actually one, was talking about water.? And government.? And regulations.? And changing standards.? And housing.? And buying a house.? She'd had an offer three years ago on a house, and within hours, there were three offers behind her offer, and five minutes before a possible closing, another offer came in, higher than her offer, and she had to find another house.? The restaurant was hopping, and by all accounts, so is Gillette.
Outside, I bought a day-old newspaper that says it's the "Wednesday Evening, June 28, 2006" edition of The Gillette News-Record.? One headline reads, "Gillette ready to relax rules on RVs."? Sub-titled "They're not allowed now in mobile home lots, but that could change to ease restrictions during a housing shortage."? ?Sounds hopeful.? I'm a second-generation carpenter, self-employed since July 10, 1989, and I'm tired of Michigan telling me how to go about my business.? Finding work may not be a problem for me in Gillette, finding a place to stay to begin to grow may be a problem, may not be a problem.? The classified section has 2 ads for roommates wanted.? Another has a 2001 camper for rent, a 26-footer, w/utilities included.? Another ad has four displays for mobile home spaces.? Ad section #025 has a 3-br, 2 bath, 2500 square foot mobile home w/22x30 attached garage, nice yard, and storage shed for $1000 a month.? There's a clean 3-br in Antelope Valley, no pets, for $800 a month, and there are several ads by larger outfits.? There's at least 14 homes listed for sale, one with wheels, and another 14-15 ads for mobile homes for sale with one request for a mobile home wanted to rent included.
The jobs available are varied and plentiful enough that most would find a lead worth pursuing.? I parked in front of a store offering Western wear and I used the cell phone while the wife explored shopping potential.? Several ads for construction-related work. The phone of one roofing company ad was answered by a person who said they didn't have to lay anyone off last winter and that they are looking for help often.? Pay is "DOE" short for depending on experience.
When I was younger and so much smarter than I am today, I traveled far, with what I owned packed in a car.? Finding work was always easy.? Head out, find where they're building, follow a loaded lumber truck if necessary, stop at job sites, walk up, and introduce yourself, nail-apron in hand.? Although some looked at me like I had ill intentions toward their breakfast cereal, or they possibly questioned my slender build, others looked at my worn nail apron and offered me opportunity.? Since then, I've married, my senses have dulled due to the obvious carrying capacity of my wife, and relocating will be a chore, a labor that seems lightened by the possibility of finding work, at least in Gillette.? I suspect that by now I'd have my first week under my belt and I'd be exploring the area this weekend and looking forward to my second week, if I was younger and smarter than I am today.
Before we walked into Perkins, I used the cell phone to call Jared, one of two that had communicated with me prior to departure.? It was right around noon, on the 29th, and Jared was home, took a moment to realize who was calling, and I felt slightly less anonymous in the rush that is Gillette.? Anyway, I wanted to touch base with someone from the site and Jared seemed the most willing to oblige.? Thank you, Jared.? He answered a few questions I had and provided some direction for our next move.? We left Gillette and headed east on 90.
Shortly after crossing the Campbell and Crook County line, we arrived in Moorcroft, where the daughter of the sister of a co-worker of my wife lives in an RV parked in the yard of another friend, there for awhile, living in the RV until they find suitable housing.? Prior to departure, I'd learned of others from here who are there, mostly names that are related to other people I know here, most in construction-related work, although the people in Moorcroft and Pinedale have other occupations.
We went back to tourist-mode for a trip from Moorcroft up to Devil's Tower, a truly impressive site, visible for miles, probably 13 miles before you get there.? I did talk to a ranger or park service employee.? Most of the trees in the area are Ponderosa pine and there are a lot of them, along with an oak that does produce acorns. That's deer habitat to me, an avid hunter.? The porcupines chew up the bottoms of the pines.? This area of Wyoming has green ground cover, greener than out west, near Cody.? There are numerous crop circles along the drive, as well as occasional crop squares.? I asked the park service employee about CWD, or chronic wasting disease, and as I recall, he professed a lack of knowledge about the local area related to the disease, although he may have confirmed that no one, really, can say scientifically how the disease is transmitted.? A year or two ago, I was looking at come computer modeling software related to deer population info, and the designer of that software said that he thought someone in Colorado was going to publish an article in a scientific journal that would offer proof.? The disease affects deer populations, has ramifications even where the disease is not found, like miles away here in the U.P.? Politics goes hand-in-hand with the matter, and any government agency with natural resources as its tool, has found in CWD enough problem to justify expense and being.? Job security and potential grows with the disease.?
When we left the Tower, we headed south on a different route, US 14, to Sundance, in Crook County, home of Jared, jail site of the Sundance Kid, located near Sundance Mountain, a big chunk of ground that rises above the terrain, and like Devil's Tower, it has played a part in Indian culture.
This area of Wyoming is where I'd like to be if my wife and I make the move.? Sundance is a town with a population of around 1,000, says the sign.? Three, four, or five hotels, if you include a Best Western closer to I-90, the town rests just north of the interstate and the mountain with other hills rising to the north of it, hills covered with Ponderosa pine and other vegetation small and large, clustered and open, hidden and obvious.? There is a grocery supermarket, though I don't believe it is a chain, at least one small quickie mart, possibly a chain or not, and several restaurants, other businesses, including several real estate shops, only one builder in town, and one game warden who wasn't home when I called from the National Forest Service office on the east end of town.? There is also a public pool, my wife told me, apparently reading the information somewhere in our hotel room on a brochure.? My wife wanted to take a picture of a sign proclaiming Sundance the home of the Bulldogs, apparently the high school mascot.? She went to Hancock High School, another home of some local Bulldogs.
We visited briefly with one real estate agency.? The first one had a sign on the door, "gone to the bank and the post office, back in 15".? There are several subdivisions that are growing up around Sundance.? One, Sundance West, as I recall, has one lot left out of many, about 9 acres situated on an open rise with a view of Sundance Mountain, for around $70-75,000, firm, with city water and I believe sewer, the city water, for sure, was an accomplishment that the real estate agency was amazed that the developer, apparently from Casper, was able to accomplish.
This subdivision was larger in area than any subdivision I worked in while in Florida.? Not a 40-acre plot, more like a several hundred-acre plot, and most of the lots are undeveloped.
One builder in Sundance, and judging by what I learned from the real estate agency, potential is there.? Often, around here anyway, one builder builds a home in a location and usually gets a crack at any home built nearby.? Word of mouth is good advertising, but a well constructed home is even better. A potential customer could drive the gravel road of Sundance West as it winds around the hills and gulleys and at times see many of the homes already there, at other times only see a few, the others hidden by the varied terrain, clusters of trees and long grass, where we saw Mama Turkey and one young and where numerous deer fed near the treeline.
Nearby, seemingly not a part of Sundance, is a cluster of homes on small lots called "Vista West," as I recall.? What Sundance West lacks in developed properties, Vista West makes up for.? Vista West is also on the road to Warren Peak, a short drive from Sundance where on a clear day it's said you can see 4 states and the Big Horn Mountains to the west.? You can also see numerous deer on the drive up, no semis that I recall, although several dirt haulers were busy below passing through Sundance West.
Up at the top of Warren Peak, I called Jared again, again around noon, this time on Friday, the 30th of June.? He seemed less surprised to hear from me, he invited us down from the mountain, where we could see a promising looking land, and we discovered that we had been within yards earlier while we visited with the real estate agency.? Jared can attest to our lack of technological savvy.? He had offered his knowledge to transfer the contents of our photo card so we'd have more capacity.? I thought we had about 20 shots left.? Turned out we had about 98 shots left.? Even now, after all that, the camera tells me we have 78 left, this after taking about a hundred shots since visiting with Jared.? Go figure.? ?He also had a list of 5 or 6 properties available in Sundance, possible first stops or steps toward something bigger and better, or not, depending on perspective.
I didn't get answers to all of my questions in Sundance.? The game warden wasn't home, though I have a number and an address and he should be able to provide additional information regarding the rules for hunting and fishing in the area.? I do know that you have to establish residency for a year before eligible.? I don't know if you'd be able to buy an out-of-state license even though you may have moved there to reside.? I suspect pervious perceived "problems" and political solutions, aided and abetted by those who find solutions to problems, real or imagined, by inhibiting the activity of others.? This is life.
Regardless, seems like living in or around Sundance would be a short trip to land that is accessible--national forest--if nothing else, and one possibility is better than none, and I suspect further investigation and questions would provide answers, just as continued travel and observation of the land provides sights like hidden streams that aren't at first seen.? ?The two ladies at the National Forest Service office provided a handful of written information.
It was a short trip, there was plenty to see, more that could have been seen, but a rewarding first trip.? My wife has 10 or 15 days in September open.? She's wondering where we should go, second-guessing a planned trip to Las Vegas.? I know where I want to return to and I don't think it would take a lot to make it so.
We left Wyoming on I-90, heading to Rapid City, from which we departed on Saturday, the 1st of July.? Prior to leaving we drove around that area, up the hill to Mount Rushmore, where I turned around once I saw the faces carved in stone, time was short, and to that other rock carving, in progress, Crazy Horse, where I talked briefly with an old Indian selling his books in the building holding Indian artifacts and the like.?
I asked him what does it cost, one of his books I held, called "Mitakuye Oyasin" or "we are all related" in English.? He pointed to a piece of paper on the table.? $10.? I gave him a Hamilton and he signed the book, A.C. Ross, Ehanamani (Walks Among).? Shake my hand, he said, and I did.? We talked briefly.? What is your name?? Walt.? Walt, where are you from?? Michigan, I replied.? Where?? The Upper Peninsula.? I spent my honeymoon in Escanaba, he said.? An Indian word, probably, I don't know what it means. Probably something to do with water.? I thanked him.? He turned to the others passing through.?
Perhaps the next time my wife and I pass through Wyoming there will be others from the Free State Wyoming movement who will be available to meet us.? Jared has been there for a little over a month, there from Washington; he was one of two, who replied directly and by PM, though he offered a contact number without being asked.? So we made contact.? ?Jared shook my hand; he shook my wife's hand.? My name is Walt.? My wife's name is Bonnie.? Thank you.
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Sounds like you've been bitten by the Wyoming bug, Walt. :) I'm impressed you did not find it "too dry", considering where you are coming from. Some people would have trouble making the transition.
What's with the nym "Fred Rogers"? Trying to confuse me?
Fifteen rooms of the Irma are remodeled Victorian style. Our room was newer, front corner, and about fifty Harleys were parked outside the window.
Cody is hosting a big get-together of the Hell's Angels; perhaps those Harleys were part of that. Creating a bit of a stir among the local folks...
I've sat in that same room of the Irma Hotel. A lot of history around there, considering the time has been so short.
Sounds like your wife is on board for this move. That helps. ;)
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I'd been looking at maps of Wyoming since the '80s and although I failed to make in '84, the future looks promising.? The alias, "Fred Rogers" is from Molon Labe, the page number was posted somewhere up above, and I was reading the book when I found this site after finding a link on archie's "home page" at FreeRepublic, the first member listed there among Wyoming "freepers".
Call me Ginger.? Reminds me of the spice, and the gal who knew how to dance.
Forgot to mention one of the last mornings in Wyoming:? I'm sitting at an open window in the hotel room, the curtins opened enough to provide light for reading, when I notice movement outside.? I felt right at home.? One of them female jackalopes was outside, bebopping around, snacking on grass and a robin (Michigan's state bird) was nearby, shopping for worms.? My back yard garden has been under attack by the Michigan version of the jackalope, seven bagged to date, and this is in town.
I've had robins nesting in an empty dog kennel.
Any potential move is fraught with anxiety.? Sundance became more appealing to my wife the longer we were there.? The bulldog mascot had a familiar ring to it.? Her work situation would, no doubt, improve there as would mine.? I'm glad I found trees.?
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Walt and Bonnie, I so enjoyed reading about your recent trip to Wyoming. Sounds to me as though you are both meant to be there. Thank you for taking the time to write about your adventure. This will help others see, through your eyes, what Wyoming has to offer. There is so much to see in Wyoming,and it could take years to see it all, so you should get moved out there and take many short trips.
If Bonnie has time I would love to hear her impressions of Wyoming. Would you ask her to write about the trip, what she sees are the advantages and possible disadvantages from a womans point of view. Thanks again !! Miles
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I'll do that, Miles, and thank you for asking.? This move would be a major step in our lives and if I can enjoy my down time, as much as I can here, the transition would be easier.? Our trip opened my eyes to the possibilities that are there.
As far as the terrain is concerned, anyone who doesn't visit the area during their lifetime is missing out.? Big time.? Such incredible views.? I felt like I was on another planet and we did get a chuckle out of the "scenic area ahead" signs. I guess that's better than say, "widened shoulder for viewing" or something along those lines.
There was one other person from this site in Cody, Barry I believe it was, who sent a message prior to our departure and we missed out on meeting him. I assume it is a him.?
And since coming back, I've looked at other threads here and it looks like there are others I could have met with had I looked at everything that is written here.? Oops.?
I'll have the missus compose her thoughts about the trip.? I won't tell her to say anything about the great pictures of the rearview mirror she took, a few that included shots of our camera.? She is talented.
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Hi Folks,? ? ?
My husband and I just got back from a tour trip across the northern part of Wyoming. Wow, what a great place to explore. I was the photo taker while my husband was driving and did I capture some great moments. The best ones were taken while driving and I was able to snap some wonderful scenery that included side views of my husbands nose, the rear view mirror, the dash and even some showing the camera in the side view mirror. Those are some of my favorites. But, I did manage to get some beautiful photos of the awesome scenery also. I am so glad for that as I want to put together a photo album of our wonderful trip.
We landed in Billings, Montana on the 27th and since I collect silver collectible spoons, the first thing I did was head for the gift store to purchase one of Montana. We then rented a car and it ended up being a brand new Ford Taurus. It was a great start to our trip knowing we were going to be comfortable as we drove across the state. We headed first to Cody and spent two days there. What a place to visit. The museums were great, the shopping was great (got my collectible spoons), the Irma historical motel was great but my favorites were the Cody Night Rodeo and the Buffalo Bill Dam. We found T-shirts at the Dam that said "My Dam Shirt" of course we had to purchase some.
From Cody we headed East and what a drive! The mountains were awesome. Scary drive at times but the scenery was great. We stayed in Sundance and I was able to get some swimming in at the motel pool and that was my favorite thing in Sundance. The town had some very friendly people. I was trying to picture us living in Sundance, as my husband would like to move. When I seen the sign that said "Sundance" "the home of the Bulldogs" I did feel at home as I graduated from Hancock, MI which is also "the home of the Bulldogs".
I work at a bank and I only saw one bank in Sundance so I worry about finding a job that pays well. The girls at the motel were making half what I make here in Michigan so that makes me worried about moving. We need to visit again (in Sept) to get more info about jobs and housing (renting) possibilities before we can decide. But, I did love our trip and what an experience it was. I know my husband is packing already, so we will see what happens in the next year or so.
Bonnie.
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It was a pleasure meeting both of you, thanks for stopping by.
Those are some fantastic write-ups - makes me want to move to Wyoming all over again! ;)
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Bonnie, thanks for taking the time to write to us about your trip I am glad you enjoyed it and glad to hear you two will be making another trip. There is a lot to do and see in Wyoming, so many tee shirts - so little time. :D I don't know if you and Walt have seen this thread ?
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum//index.php?board=6.0
There are several postings about traveling in Wyoming , and some of them have insider secrets of things to see while on tour in Wyoming. You guys should post yours there too
So ,what I would really like to hear from you is, what you think would be the pros and cons of making the move to Wyoming. Do you think that it is a place freindly to the ways of a woman ? I think there are many women who see Wyoming as a backwards place, nothing but cowboys and indians, not enough civilization. Now that I think about it maybe you and several others would be nice enough to start a thread about moving to Wyoming, the good and bad of it, from a womans perspective ? Might be of help to some others who have not been to Wyoming yet and are worried that their men are going to drag them off into the wilderness. :o Thanks again !!
Miles
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September is here and the wife and I will be heading out tomorrow, 9/11, for another look see in Wyoming. Big state, lots to see, not enough time, but we'll be in the eastern third of the state poking around, probably stop and say hello to MamaLiberty and see if we can help with her stove. After our first trip was over, I thought of all kinds of questions and I should have made a note of them because they all escape me now. I imagine answers will be found and we'll learn more. We're looking forward to exploring eastern Wyoming from the south to the north, Lusk, Torrington, possibly Douglas, Newcastle, and Sundance (again).
Walt
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I'll try to round up the folks that live near here. We've quite a settlement in Sundance and Gillette, all close enough. Some of them may want to have you stop by their places instead of coming here, and that's fine. Those who would rather do that need to PM Fred so they can make their plans.
If you happen to land here right on the 16th, I'll be in Sundance myself at the handgun class. Maybe we can get together there if that happens. We had planned a little get together then anyway, so it would be too cool if you were there. PM for details. But whatever happens that fits your schedule, of course.
Just let me know what day you will be here. And welcome again! ~W~
MamaLiberty
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I hope we don't miss you again, this time, ML. We should be in that area by the end of the week, though, and you are at that class. Maybe I need one--I had a .454 blow up in my hand the other day. No injuries. I must be living a charmed life. Another time I had a rick-o-shay hit me in the temple. .38 that time. Good thing I have a hard head. Both times it was my fault. I reload and I think a reload did the .454.
We may end up pasing through some of the bigger towns in the SE of the state as the wife was changing our plotted course again last night. Won't know till we get there where the road leads.
Walt/Fred
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"Fred" and his lovely wife came by today. We had a good visit and I hope they'll soon be joining us here.
We really need to encourage folks like these as much as possible.
Thanks for coming, and God bless you both! Hope to see you again soon.
Love, MamaLiberty
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Hi all
We had a rewarding trip, met MamaLiberty, visited for a bit there in Newcastle with her. Nice area, nice town, one of many we passed through, including Cheyenne, Lusk, Douglas, Sundance (again). We also visited areas in the states surrounding Wyoming. An incredible amount of land where you can see for miles, but even the town of Lusk has areas around it that are wooded and hilly. We like the area, every area we saw. So many of the questions one could ask or wonder about can only be answered by being there, I suspect. It should be interesting to watch how the Free State movement evolves and grows. We have an anchor or two here that needs to be addressed before we could actually move--two houses, one we're living in, another we have for sale. Lots of opportunity there, no doubt about it. After two trips, the area is beginning to feel like a home. Only time will tell if the biography of that place will find us listed in the index.
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Shoot, sorry I missed you! :O I've had some out of state company the past couple of weeks so I've been a bit scarce.
Glad it was a pleasant trip!
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Hey Jared, maybe we'll be running into you again sooner than we thought. Got back from work today and the real estate agent called to tell us he has someone that will be making an offer on the other house we have for sale. Yippe-ki-aye! We'll find out tomorrow later in the evening what it is. If Wyoming is a sellers' market, here in the U.P. it is a buyers' market and although we're not likely to get what we would like, at this point, selling it would release one anchor, the heaviest one--our other house can be freed up and all strings cut if need be and away we go. I'd thought I'd build a spec-house once this older remodel sells, but maybe what I ought to do is build a spec-house in Wyoming where the thing would likely sell for what it's worth. We're keeping our fingers crossed. The prospective buyer has been hemming and hawing for four months or so.
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Fred, If you want to make some money on a spec house one place to build is in Rock Springs. There are lots of subdivisions going in ,so you could buy a lot ,build a home and rolll it over, and over. When you have made enough profit you can move elsewhere if Rock Springs isn't your cup of tea. More people than houses there right now. My nephew is building them and selling them as fast as he can. Miles
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That's one area where we haven't visited, Miles.? I'm looking at the map.? I guess if my 14 footer doesn't sell--it's been for sale since our first trip--I could lug it along.? Got a snowmobile and a 4-wheeler, too.? You can tell where my mind is at.? What are the hunting possibilities there in that area?? Bow season starts here Oct 1 and I'll probably do time for all the time I spend in a tree.? One thing for sure, with the news you? posted, it's going to be hard to stay put and my recreating is the one string that will be hard to cut.? And in the end, I suspect I'll have to discover the hunting and fishing possibilities on my own.
Talked to the realtor today after work.? We have an offer on the table.? About 82% of our asking price.? The house has been on the market since April 2005, the second I've done this way.? There's empty land behind it and I talked with the wife about building a spec home back there, thinking it would sell quicker and for more than a remodel.? But on our two trips, what we're selling here would go for at least double there in Wyoming.? The difference would help arrange a lot of recreating.? I'll be meeting the realtor tomorrow and we're inclined to take the offer, all things considered.
The wife told me earlier, "you should build a spec house in Newcastle," out-of-the-blue.? Rock Springs?? Maybe another trip?
So who knows what time will bring?
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Fred , Any town where the boom is reaching would be good for a spec house, Gillette, Newcastle, Pinedale etc.Rock Springs is in the desert contry so mostly sagebrush,junipers and canyons. There are lots of folks there who love to hunt. Lots of antelope, mule deer, and even a nice desert elk herd. You won't have to worry about getting your hunting or fishing in no matter where you live in Wyoming. ;D
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We signed some paper today, setting the wheels in motion, and apparently the buyer has seven days to come up with additional paper that says the money is on the way, or something like that. Fingers crossed, but until we close, anything can happen. We hope and expect the best.
And now that that step may happen, and with downtime in the construction business likely around here, what with 200" of repellant on its way, the next step to consider is logistics and timing. A former employee stopped by today as I was unloading the truck. He'd been out west last winter, St. George in Utah, Junction Something in Colorado, and confirmed construction is booming. I was going to ask, but I suppose he already answered--that winter work is just as likely as summer? I don't know, so I ask.
Anyway, we're thinking, or I am anyway, since I should handle logistics, about travel and timing. It's a bit daunting to consider, given the volume that needs relocating, but with winter coming on, perhaps that could be accomplished in steps. We could leave our first home here as a base, or rent it out--it's paid for--and with the likely sale of this other, financial obligations are at a minimum.
Maybe I'm only thinking out loud, or on-line, but sitting around here twiddling my thumbs this winter, or moving out there, is beginning to take on larger dimensions. Time will tell. All you need do in this life is die, and live till. It'd be easier if I knew life would be better in Wyoming until that time...and like everything else I guess if it is to be it is up to me.
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You might take a look at Home Place Realty here in Newcastle. http://www.homeplaceusa.com/ She is very reliable and helpful. You could probably find a fixer upper here to live in while you built something. Then you could sell the fixer. I hated to move twice, but sometimes it just can't be helped. There are four places on this page for under $100,000. http://www.homeplaceusa.com/Listings.htm and several under $200,000. Prices will only go up and up as long as the boom lasts.
There's almost nothing for rent, unfortunately, but Vera should be able to find you something if that's what you need. She has listings in all parts of eastern Wyoming, and of course has access to the multiple listings too. Tell her the lady who bought the log house sent you.
MamaLiberty
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Thank you, MamaLiberty. The details on that page are hard to ignore and we liked the Newcastle area--saw an elk just across the border in South Dakota--don't know if they are found nearby in the area. One worry I have is financing the operation. When we sold the first remodel here, we left the loan open, though we paid it down to zero, and began again on the second instead of closing it and starting paperwork for another. We should be able to find out what the possibilities are for something like that again. It irks me to have sold the second for less than optimum, but even if we stayed here, that puts us in a position to do better with less baggage. Like everywhere, I imagine, the people who loan money prefer "established" folk. But if we hang onto the home we're in, that ought to satisfy who holds the purse strings. But at some of those prices, we could be there easy.
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A builder out of Douglas is here working on a couple of commercial projects. To keep the crews busy, they bought two lots and put a house on each, nothing fancy (lower level unfinished). One sold for $160,000 and the other one has a sale pending. That company has now purchased eight more lots.
The hardest part here now is finding lots or land to build on. The price has been rising dramatically over that last two years with the boom. I am not trying to discourage you, just let you know some background.
Cat