Free State Wyoming Forum
Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Prospective Free State Wyoming (FSW) Members and Interested Parties => Topic started by: Max on June 18, 2006, 01:13:48 PM
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At the Jam it became evident, in case it was not already clear, that most of the FSW people are over 30 or under 20. Besides me, Jared, Terrible Claw, and his bro, are there any other folks in their twenties?
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You forgot me Max, I am 20.
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I just celebrated my 20th anniversary of my 35th birthday! Does that count?
Mac
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I'm 20 and Mikeyali1776 is 25. :)
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I'm 25
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So there are some twenty-something.... males. Now if I could just put a face to you. I met so many people at the shoot that it is hard to recall.
Now the big question: are there any under-30 women? Sgt. Slappy posted elsewhere that his to-do list included a)moving, b) building house, and c) getting a wife. I resonate strongly with that last step, though I don't like it. I imagine that I would find a woman who wants to travel together with me to build a new life in WY... but if I wait for that to happen, I may never move. "Getting a wife" seems to be the best way to put it.
So the question to all you unattached young'uns like me, and all you not-so-young'uns who solved this problem- just where do you go to find your mate when you live in small town Wyoming?
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And not to be terribly intrusive, but where (in general) do y'all live? I would like to be within an hour's drive of at least some of you... I am looking at moving to Gillette or Sundance, FYI.
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So the question to all you unattached young'uns like me, and all you not-so-young'uns who solved this problem- just where do you go to find your mate when you live in small town Wyoming?
I've heard Russia has mail-order brides. ;D
I met Tom in high school and got married at 18 - had Riley 2 years later. So I'm interested in how everyone else "hooks up".
Martha
BTW - We arejust barely over 30. Does this disqualify us?
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Hogwash to being "disqualified."
My point with this thread is that folks my general age (ie, past high school, and not yet into the family years) have specific issues (such as finding spouses) that most folks in the FSW worked out (or not) long ago.
So if anybody has light to shed on these *tender* years, then please chime in.
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Hey Max, I am also thinking about the same type of thing. I was the guy in the MultiCam BDU's with the beard if you remember me.
There are lots of young people in Casper, partly why I picked here to start out. It's also a good place to start a business. Casper College is here. Also I have heard there are even more in Laramie, which is where the only four year college in Wyoming is.
As for crook county, I've heard that you prolly gotta drive to spearfish(I think), SD for the nearest college town to meet young single women.
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So maybe the plan is to move to Crook or Weston, work for a bit while scouting out the eventual place to settle down, then buy it and move to the city where more money can be made, while paying the mortgage, and find a wife there.
Glad it is not complicated ::)
RichardF- Were you on the right side of the left pit at the RWVA?
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Max - I was in the right pit at the RWVA. I only met you and your parents during the lunch break on one of the days, I may have to post a pic eventually, lol.
I am renting an apartment in Wyoming getting started with a business and eventually get some land or something in crook county to build a place.
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What kind of business are you starting? And are you looking for roommates, either long- or short-term?
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Hey Max, I am starting a web development business. I don't think I could have a roomate right now, as my apartment is too small, and I will be working out of it also. It only has 1 bedroom. I need space for an office in it too.
The apartment prices are pretty cheap, right outside of Caper also. The best stuff in casper is at least $400/month, I have seen some for 350 though. That is pretty cheap compared to where I am from also. In glenrock, about 30 minutes from casper, there were two bedrooms apartments going for like 275. Douglas is 45 minutes away, might be a better choice..
I'll send you a more detailed PM in a little while.
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Hey, I'm a girl! But I'm rather taken, so it's kind of irrelevant for the 'finding a spouse' discussion. Maybe I'll threaten Mike that if I don't get a ring one of these days, I'll run off with another FSW guy. ;) Kidding! Unfortunately I don't know any like-minded ladies that I can bring along just yet, save my sister, but she's only 16. I guess by the time we move, she'll be legal... Hehe!
Anyway, we're not sure where we're headed for in WY yet, as it's at least two years off (have to finish college first) but right now we're kind of leaning towards Sundance.
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Hey Laurel, I am at least glad to know that girls like you exist! I am sure to find one around here in Casper shortly. I haven't gotten around town to meet much people yet because I have so much stuff to do just moving into an apartment, but I will have time to shortly.
Hey any guys, If you've ever had trouble dating women or think you'll never be able to find a girl, PM me and I can't point you in the right direction. I suffered from "nice guy" syndrome for most of my teen years being too shy, lack of self confidence, and what not. I am still working on it a little, but I got some reading material that will change your life if you have ever been in that position.
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Hey Laurel, I am at least glad to know that girls like you exist!
Well thank you! I actually have a funny story on that - when Mike and I were at the Spokane gun show the other day, we passed a table with a nice AR-15 on it. The two guys behind the table were an older gentleman and a younger guy, probably mid-twenties, military haircut, handsome. I stopped to oogle and Mike said "Hey, that's pretty much like what I want to build for you" and I replied "Oh, pretty please? Can I have it?" The younger guy behind the table stared at me for a second, turned to the other, pointed at me and said "SEE?! I need one of those!" It was rather cute, and I'll tell you what - if I wasn't taken, that guy would have probably gotten my phone number!
Anyway, I have a point here: the more I get into this liberty-lovin' life, the more I find women who share the same views and passions I do. If I can find them, so can you! You seem to have this figured out, but I'll my $0.02 anyway. Gun-toting, revolution-planning, freedom-loving women are not the type to like pretty-boys, wimps, metrosexuals, or babies. We can take care of ourselves and we know it, so we don't want a guy we have to drag around. You better be confident, independent, motivated, and willing to fight for us and your way of life. Like BTP says in the Gun Bible, women like us can fight for ourselves, but we shouldn't have to. Bottom line: be a man, be a gentleman, exude self-confidence, and be yourself - and you'll snag a FSW kinda gal in no time. :)
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Anyway, I have a point here: the more I get into this liberty-lovin' life, the more I find women who share the same views and passions I do. If I can find them, so can you! You seem to have this figured out, but I'll my $0.02 anyway. Gun-toting, revolution-planning, freedom-loving women are not the type to like pretty-boys, wimps, metrosexuals, or babies. We can take care of ourselves and we know it, so we don't want a guy we have to drag around. You better be confident, independent, motivated, and willing to fight for us and your way of life. Like BTP says in the Gun Bible, women like us can fight for ourselves, but we shouldn't have to. Bottom line: be a man, be a gentleman, exude self-confidence, and be yourself - and you'll snag a FSW kinda gal in no time. :)
I can see how quickly a guy could develop a crush on you, Laurel!? My gal will be imported with me when I get into WY permanently.? We met while serving together in the Army in '01.? She's a beautiful, strong-minded girl who is more capable than she thinks.? She's going to need some girlfriends up there.We plan on settling up in the NE corner.? She's 22 and I'm four years older.
The Mangled, Terrible Claw
(one of the Daves)
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We're looking at the NE corner as well. You should get her posting on here - have her PM me, we can chat! :)
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I cant find a like-minded christian gal out here in NJ (with its high population density, and assumed more chances).But I have alas, I cant find anyone here. (which make sence, since most people here are brainwashed hive-minded morons) But I also havnt had much luck finding such ladies on the net either. So much for the information age;).
I figure if I plug into a good church in the area, I MIGHT find some good ole fashioned christian gal with a general distrust of the fuds, who also likes guns =). Course, that could be wishfull thinking.
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OK Max you asked for some sage advise. I am 47 , been married 21 years, two kids. I remember when I was 20 something like it was yesterday! ?Great time of life , but I remember getting caught up in thinking I had to be like my parents and thier parents before them. You know ,part of the american dream. Get educated, get working, get a wife, get a family, etc. So I was always worried that I wasn't "getting it done" I wish when I was young I could have seen things as I see them now, hence the old saying (insert your choice of old sayings).
So my advice would be to slow down, live everyday, there is no doubt in my mind that if you are to find a wife she will find you,and you will find her.
Don't tell my wife but when I was in my twenties every girl I dated was a potential wife, I spent a lot of time and energy trying to find the person I was going to share my life with. It literally drove me crazy.I was to worried about not finding her. When I was 24 I gave up trying to find her.No more women for me, I said. I went back to school and took a job at the college in the chemistry dept., washing glassware. My boss was a 23 year old female. The first day on the job ,after cleaning about a hundred beakers ,and feeling very proud of the great work I had done, She came over, looked at each beaker, and proceded to tell me that I would wash them again and again untill they were clean.... I hated her!
Today she still is my boss, but I love her. ?:) This event changed my whole life. And it was totally unexpected.
I know there are lots of women your age in Wyoming. They are in school or working at thier jobs, just like everyone else. They go shopping,go to church,go to the recreation centers. Have friends( who are probobly always triing to fix them up with someone? ) They are all around you! So I would say to you, get to Wyoming, concentrate on finding a job and a home. Spend the first year traveling around Wyoming and getting to know people. This will help you figure out where you fit in and help you decide where the best place for you is. If you are one of those guys who are very comfortable meeting new people you will soon have many friends and your wife may be among them.( I was always very shy around women so fate helped me out.) If you are shy you will grow out of it,and the people in Wyoming will introduce themselves and make it easier for you to be yourself, at least that was my experience. Just look out for yourself first, she will show up, maybe even when you least expect it. ;D ;D
Miles
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Hey, me and your sister are less apart in age than my parents. Dinner at your place, Thursday, I am happy to cook...
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Hey, me and your sister are less apart in age than my parents. Dinner at your place, Thursday, I am happy to cook...
Our folks are 14 years apart, so nobody in THIS family is too phased by an age gap. ;D
I'll PM you back - Mike just headed to work, but I'll ask him what he wants to do (lunch or dinner, what day, etc.) and get back to you. Who'da thunk we'd find FSW'ers not yet in WY, and 10 minutes from us!?
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Max, can't believe you forgot about ME, your SKS ball-and-dummy...errr... buddy (not to mention being in WA as well)!
I hear ya about the ladies. well... kinda. I mean, dang, they're everywhere, and they really aren't that hard to talk to (as long as you be yourself, they can spot a fake just as easily...no, probably more easily than we can), but finding one that doesn't mind listening to you tell her about which gun you plan on buying next, or helping you find a used RV and also locate a family that doesn't mind you storing it on their property while you prepare for the future gun-ban and the subsequent haul-ass to wyoming, well, they are a bit more difficult to find.
So far my plan has been to be myself. The cute barrista starts asking you what your plans are for the day, tell her the truth. "Well I am going to the rifle range and work on my shooting for an hour or two, what are you doing?" Eventually we'll find one that doesn't look at us funny and then act busy for the rest of the time.
My goal right now is to work on getting rid of my financial debt and getting my own place, etc. I don't think of this as being a stepping stone (at least not towards a girl), but rather a way to get rid of the complications in my life. I want to be free to pick up and go if the opportunity strikes. Or even more short term, to finally feel like I am at "home"; I've been moving around so much because of school that I haven't been in one place for more than 8 months in the last 6 years. Totally tiring.
I don't have problems finding girls to go hang out with, but I have a major problem finding girls that I like to go out with, but this just reminded me of something a youth pastor told me. I have to become the man that would attract the kind of girl that I am looking for. I just aint him right now. (this is sooo much harder than getting the nerve to talk to her, or to keep that aweful third grade stuttering down ;D ).
Hey Richard hook me up with that PM, I'm interested (I was the guy with the Glock on my hip and the red hoodie when it got cold at night).
Hey Miles, thanks for that. I was sitting in my room trying to wright the other day and I got frustrated because in the story I was writing I wanted to present a change in the main character from standard run of the mill cowardice to courage, but I couldn't do it. I don't have the life experience to know what courage looks like. My youth and naivete was working against me. I always appreciate hearing from guys who have been there and done that. I try to tell my younger siblings how not to make the same mistakes I did in HS and college but then they just go and do it. I can only imagine what my dad thinks of me ::)
Hope to see you all again, sooner rather than later.
Zack
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Hey, Thanks for the insight Laurel.
This turned out to be a productive thread so far. Showing the Young Folk's( or Under 30's) presence on the board! It's good to know. You all just need to quit making excuses and come to Wyoming! ;D
Ya'll at least need to plan some trips up here in the meantime.
All of you who have PM'ed me I will try to respond to them tomarrow. I am a busy guy.
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You all just need to quit making excuses and come to Wyoming!
My big problem is not letting Wyoming be my excuse to run off from school (again)!
Must... get... degree... :D
In fact, I was just on U of W's website, thinking, "Hmmm... we could just take off for WY now and transfer..." Though with a new lease signed for at least a year, Mike having just finished training for a higher-paying job, and only two years left of school - I think we'll be stuck here for now. :D
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Zack, I remember you, but only that you shoot a hell of a lot better than me. What else is there to remember? ;D
I am wyoming bound very soon, like late August, as I just delivered my Honors Thesis and am now semi-officially graduated (transcripts come out in August).
Remind me Zack where you live.
And it is nice to know that there are some young folk around.
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Zack said...
"Hey Miles, thanks for that. I was sitting in my room trying to wright the other day and I got frustrated because in the story I was writing I wanted to present a change in the main character from standard run of the mill cowardice to courage, but I couldn't do it. I don't have the life experience to know what courage looks like. My youth and naivete was working against me. I always appreciate hearing from guys who have been there and done that. I try to tell my younger siblings how not to make the same mistakes I did in HS and college but then they just go and do it. I can only imagine what my dad thinks of me ."
My reply ...
Sometimes I think just getting out of bed in the morning takes courage, living life in america takes courage. "It is the quality of mind or spirit that enables a person to face difficulty,danger,pain,etc., without fear. " - Webster.
Many times fear is in our own minds and for some can be so overwhelming that they cannot even leave thier house. So each of us knows what courage is if we really break it down, we use courage every day . I ,myself, am still young and find out every week how naive I am and to what extent I have lived very sheltered from reality. Bostons writings have shown me this, this forum, and its many wise contributors,young and old, opens my eyes continually . So I have only "been there, done that" based on my jpourney through this life. There are many other folks here who have been through much more than I ,and have experienced life threatening amounts of courage. I find that I learn from people of all ages , but only if I am open to what they have to teach me. My belief in this regard is that everyone ,everyone, who comes into my life ,even if only for a few moments, has something to show me. The hard part is having the presence of mind to be able to recognize and accept the lesson.
" when the student is ready, a teacher will appear."
You made me smile when you mentioned trying to pass along your knowledge to your younger siblings. You will experience this throughout your life. I could only escape the frustration of this when I realized that each of us is on a different journey and sometimes you can talk untill you are blue in the face, with someone you care about, and they will still have to experience the thing you are warning them about, on thier own.
As to your father, remember he too is on a journey through life and looks at everything based on his experience. We males have a complicated relationship with our dads. (As do the females) I myself spent a lot of time trying to please my father, and now that I am older I realize that I made a lot of bad decisions based on that. Now that I am older,and a father myself I can see that at the end of the day he loves me, it may be very deep down inside, I may have dissapointed him, and I know he was pissed at me many times for the stupid stunts I pulled, but he will always be my dad. If you are lucky your dad is at a place in his journey to be able to sit back and look at his children with a sly, knowing, grin.
Miles
PS. If you younguns think this oldun is hijacking your thread just ignore me and I'll go away. :D :D
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All you young single guys need to make at least one trip to Laramie. Trust me on this one. Show up in late aug or early sept. b
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We have just started having the Summer Orientation for new freshman on my campus, so I know just what you mean. The pre-frosh girls are cute, but more in a scared puppy way than a 'that's interesting' kind of way.
And to all the guys, if you are going to get a college girl, get her while she is a freshman. It sounds like Mike has done this; good job. You see, freshman girls have almost no idea how to act, and they are highly impressionable. Even sophomores have a great deal more confidence- stay away from them. And once they are seniors, you are screwed, and not in a good way. They know what they want and if you are in that picture, great, and if not, tough.
(With apologies to Lauren and all other women)
(But not too many, as everything I say above is true)
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And to all the guys, if you are going to get a college girl, get her while she is a freshman. It sounds like Mike has done this; good job. You see, freshman girls have almost no idea how to act, and they are highly impressionable. Even sophomores have a great deal more confidence- stay away from them. And once they are seniors, you are screwed, and not in a good way. They know what they want and if you are in that picture, great, and if not, tough.
See, I respectfully disagree. I was indeed at the end of my freshman year when I began dating Mike, but I had a very clear picture of how to act and wasn't exactly "highly impressionable." Are there many girls out there like that? Yes... but a bunch of y'all said you'd like to find ladies with my mindset, and I'll tell you what - young, impressionable girls are NOT them!
If you have to mold a woman into what you want her to be, what's to say she isn't going to up and decide someday that she hates Wyoming, couldn't give a rip about guns, and is going to run off and marry a rich banker and live in a penthouse in Seattle? Sooner or later a woman will grow into her own, and if you've tried to "catch her young" in hopes of making her what you want her to be, you're in for a rude awakening when you come home to an empty house because she decided she was sick of being "molded."
Nope, sorry Max, but you've got it exactly backwards. If you want a woman who is going to back you up in Wyoming, you need one who knows exactly who she is and what she wants. Dragging an unsure woman out there is a recipe for disaster. You'll end up alone in Wyoming with an alimony payment. This is not to mention the fact that if you take a woman and make her in the image of what you want, shouldn't you have just gotten a dog or something? I'm far from a feminist, but a woman is supposed to be a strong partner for your life, not just a live-in chef and babymaker. If you want a wife who cooks and cleans and raises your children, you better be damned sure it's because that's what she feels called to do as her womanly duty, that she is confident in that and it's what she seeks for her life. If you take some scared little freshman and try to make her that - again, be prepared for a rude awakening.
Besides, why would you even want to be with a woman who doesn't know what she wants, but goes with you because of - what, a lack of options? You say to avoid seniors because they know what they want, and if you don't fit into it, you're screwed... Don't you want a woman to want you?
You should be shooting for a woman who knows exactly what she wants: a warrior, a gentleman, a father, a strong husband, a businessman, a marksman, etc. She should have a very clear picture of what her man should be, and if you don't fit into that, it's because she doesn't see you as the right man for the job. Be the man that a woman like that will desire, and you will find yourself a confident, strong, and loving wife. You will not be happy with less in the long (life) run, even if it's easier to come by to start with.
If you'd like a Biblical reference to the perfect wife, IMHO, check out Proverbs 31. That's my goal. I'd say she's a heck of a lot closer to a FSW woman than a demure, unsure college freshman, no?
Laurel
P.S. I just read this to Mike before I posted it, to see what he thought, and he agreed with me and added "If you just get an impressionable woman and make her what you want, you can't find any joy in her because she's not authentic. It's kind of like the fact that there's no glory in conquering a weak people."
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Eloquent, Laurel.
All of what you say is true, which is why I am not attached to anyone despite being in a town of 10,000 age-eligible women. I have not found one who a) knows who she is and b) knows what she wants, where I fit the description of the later. So I do agree with you that women who know themselves are more interesting. It is just that being patient is such a pain.
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Just figured I'd chime in here for the sake of a complete thread, even though I'm fast approaching the outer edge of your given bracket. :o
And for the record, there are many hotties in Spearfish. :)
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from Laurel:
Who'da thunk we'd find FSW'ers not yet in WY, and 10 minutes from us!?
That's great to hear!
I betokens a rather wide circle of FSWers out there.
No longer is this org "just Boston and his big mouth" (according
to the FSP's founder).
btw, "Uncle" Boston is very pleased with the fun energy and intelligent
discussion of this thread.
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Now I'm curious, just where do ya meet a girl with similar goals? I've NEVER met one who thought anything like me on whats important (not even my own sisters :P) so I dont know if its bad luck or is that just part of the female species?
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ALL of the students show up in late summer, not just the freshmen. Some of the graduate students are 35-40 + and there are all the "non traditional" students too. Post graduate, seniors, juniors, sophomores, the ones who take 6-8 years to get their undergraduate degree. Lots of foreigners too. Right noe the male to female ratio is 2- 3.8 which is nearly 2 ladies to every guy in this town. b
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When I was of freshman age what I wanted then does in no way correlate to what I want to today and what I have become. ?I am still a work in progress--hopefully progressing in the right direction. ?I came from a family that didn't help guide me to become a strong person. I really didn't start figuring this out until I had been married about 5 years and had a 5 year old son. ?When I saw what the system wanted to do to my child I rose up and started to fight for the well being of my child. ?This experience is what started my process of independent thinking. ?Before that I never questioned the 'authorities'.
While I agree with Laurel that a women who know who she is would be ideal, sometimes people don't know who they are and what they want out of life. ?If a girl comes from the typical American family she's grown up on TV and two parents working. ?Maybe she doesn't realize there are other options.
My husband and I came from the above mentioned situation. ?If you had given us the scenario of where we are today when we were newlyweds we would have laughed in your face. ?It took the two of us working together for 16 years to become the people we are today. ?
SteveL keep looking--don't try and mold a girl just let her know who you are and what you believe in. ?If she's not sure where she stands in life seeing you as a strong example of a real man just might make help find herself so she can be your mate and not an adversary.
If any of the young men on this thread had met me when I was 18 I think the general consensus would have been 'nice to look at but not a coherent thought in her head' :-\ ?
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On finding a woman with similar goals:
One tactic I have tried, uttely without success, is to wear my Gadsden t-shirt around campus. Bright yellow, with a snake and "liberty or death" written on it. Maybe if I was waving a flag...
But the real problem is the needle in the haystack issue. In this town of 10,000 college aged women, I am sure that there are 10 or so with whom there would be mutual interest. But as my roommate said, "The kind of girls we want- they are probably home reading!" I have faith that they are out there- they are just in hiding, which would make sense if they knew Boston was out there waiting for them to turn 18. ( Wouldn't you be hiding too?) :-*
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"The kind of girls we want- they are probably home reading!"
THE OBVIOUS ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION'S REALLY QUITE SIMPLE, START A CONSERVATIVE ORENTED READING & DISCUSSION GROUP !!!? :o ;D
Solving questions are why I make the big bucks dudes!!? :)
HUNTER
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New to the forum, and right at 30, but still in the 20's mindset.
I remember a history teacher talking about why Wyoming was the first state to give women the vote, he said it was because the women who could live in a place like Wyoming were the toughest women around and were not about to be treated like second class citizens like the women in the rest of the country. It sounds like this is still true today! :)
Okay, hello everyone, I just could not help but read this whole thread......very good stuff. Let me give a little background......
I got started young married at 18 to a 14 year old :o (she was almost 15), we have for the most part never got along; we have two kids (11 & 9) and got divorced in 2004 only to remarry a year later. Now were splitting up again and I am seriously thinking about becoming a FSWer, and like a broken record start over fresh.
I agree with Laurel, you don't want to get someone young just because you think you can mold her, at some point she will grow up and be who she is to be. (I've lived it) I would rather be with a woman who knows what she wants than with one who is still growing up. But hey live life as you see fit, just be prepared to take responsibility for it.
Any way I must admit this topic is of concern to me as well, it would be nice to hook up with a lady who will balance my equations, be a person of interest and action. I'm an odd duck, who has done a lot of looking, but has yet to find a good fit. Maybe some enterprising FSWer should start up a FSW match making service. I would be interested in joining such a service.
Best,
Jed Bodacious
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I've been pretty successful in meeting those ladies who are
unknowingly "pre-libertarian" and furthering their natural growth.
That is different from "molding" someone who is not inherently
freedom-oriented.
The quickest and easiest way to discern her core political beliefs:
World's Smallest Political Quiz
http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html
Most women I've gone out with scored Libertarian to their surprise,
but not to mine.
Guys, a suggestion regarding politics and philosophy:
Don't come on too heavy about it with women.
Women are very practical, and much more realistic about
their potential mates. They are more keen to know if
you're a good provider with no substance addiction,
and don't have a frightening temper.
They don't care if you're a Libertarian vs. an Objectivist.
Also, "extremism" understandably frightens off many women.
As potential wives and mothers, the tranquility of the "nest"
is important. Fellows who are perpetually railing against the
government, the establishment, and the status quo can
quickly seem too risky for most women.
They've one bet to make for the furtherance of their genetic
material, and rabble-rousers are hardly a safe one.
Most polemicists are bachelors.
(Alex Jones is the jaw-dropping exception.)
So, guys, decide what it is that you really want, because
serious political activism and wooing a young lass are mutually
antagonistic for the most part.
Speaking for myself, since I've had a fine run at things since
1992, and since I want a wife and family, my polemicism is
winding down. As Boston, I've written most of what I wanted
to write, and have accomplished most of my goals. The FSW is
now full of great people, and has its own sufficient energy apart from
what I add to it.
It's time--high time--for me to pursue the tranquil comforts of hearth
and home, which I always wanted, anyway. I allowed my life to get
"derailed" long ago by the BTP thing because I care about America.
While I don't actually regret my choice, I am rather wistful for what
I forsook along the way.
Guys, if you're keen to have a family, then get started on it by 35,
if not 30. Once you're past 35, many younger women will suddenly
begin to imagine that you're "too old" because you're near the age
of their fathers. (This is not so much the case in other countries,
as American women are much more shallow.)
Your best social age window is 27-34--i.e., not too young and not too
old. I did not know this, else I wouldn't have been so lackadaisical
about the courting game.
Once you pass 40, then 35+ y/o divorc?es (usually with children, and not
wanting more) are what you'll be left to choose from.
Boston
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Wow, I didn't mean to bring this great thread to
a screeching halt.
Y'all carry on!
Unca B will go hang out with the old geezers.
Boston
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"American women are much more shallow"
Boston
OMG BTP!, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT !!!? :o :o :o :o
YOU GOTA DEATH WISH?
SUSAN, BRANDY, LAURAL, LADYS? ANY REBUT?
GET EM! ;D
HUNTER
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naw, in the majority, he's right:
http://www.the-niceguy.com/
http://mirrorofthesoul.blogspot.com/
http://www.cooltools4men.com/links.htm
http://www.angryharry.com/bookrantings.htm
http://www.americanwomensuck.com/
(asbestos suit on!! 8))
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naw, in the majority, he's right:
Nah, I don't believe that. Used to long time ago, but not any more.
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Hunter, any woman on this forum, so interested in freedom,
is de facto not shallow. On this, you must
agree...which begs the question of your remark being
disingenuous or just silly.
I'm extremely pleased with the quality of our FSW ladies,
many of whom I had the pleasure of meeting at the Jam.
Bright, pretty, pleasant, and helpful...every one.
P.J. O'Rourke once made the interesting observation that
no movement can go anywhere without the active and
visible support of such women. I tend to agree, and am
very heartened that more women are becoming more
active within the FSW.
Jared, thanks for the interesting sites, but they're probably
better posted in our Men and Women thread. I certainly
don't want to have this (or any) thread transformed into some
women bashing pulpit, even if I were that jaded. I don't
think you meant to do so, either, and were simply proving my
point of shallowness.
My generic advice for guys:
Find a good woman, and then perservere through whatever
self-growth is necessary to deserve and keep her.
Boston
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Rrrrroger! 8)
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If any of the young men on this thread had met me when I was 18 I think the general consensus would have been 'nice to look at but not a coherent thought in her head' :-\ ?
She's still quite nice to look at! :o :o :o :-*
-
Getting Quantities(of women) is easy...
Quality is MUCH harder...
If you want to attract lots of girls...dont be yourself, abandon your political and religious views, abandon your morals, live a very care-free and almost live a hedonistic lifestyle.
But most the girls (actually all of them) that you'd attract are far below acceptable quality. (promiscuous women, women with mental issues, etc)
However, if you want to find that ONE GOOD QUALITY woman...well they only way I know how, is to stick to my principles, political, moral and religious. "better to be hated for who you are than be loved for who your not."
I do tend to be a bit of an "Extremist", or come accross that way.
I guess back in my head, there is a running fantasy that i'll find a girl with the same principles i stand for, who will accept that. Course, that hope is slowly dying. =(
Hopefully my chances will be better in Wyoming! =)
-
Are the ladies (or for that matter the people in general) less shallow in Wyoming than in the rest of the lower 48?
I remember stopping at an Arby's in Missoula, MT once and the girl that waited on me seemed different to me, kind of innocent. In fact people up north just seem to be about 20 years behind (that's a good thing) socially than the rest of the country. The towns are clean and the people friendly. Down here it's just not that way. I remember growing up, everyone waved at each other whether known or not, it's not that way around here any more, and I always notice it when I go north. I've always felt cold weather has a cleansing effect. Well I'm starting to ramble.
BTW, Boston I got your book today....hard to put down!
Jed Bodacious
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Are the ladies (or for that matter the people in general) less shallow in Wyoming than in the rest of the lower 48?
I remember stopping at an Arby's in Missoula, MT once and the girl that waited on me seemed different to me, kind of innocent. In fact people up north just seem to be about 20 years behind (that's a good thing) socially than the rest of the country. The towns are clean and the people friendly. Down here it's just not that way.
Jed Bodacious
The first week of April, I was here in the Casper area for my interveiw w/ PRI, and I stopped at the Arby's on Wyoming Blvd, east side of Casper.? I was walking to the door on my way in.? Two young men (20's) were about three steps ahead of me.? I watched when they got to the door, a blonde hottie was entering the airlock on her way out, and the door was being held for her by a companion.? The fellas in front of me jumped to the side and held the outer door for her.? I was far enough back to not be in the way, and not bump into them ;D? Anyway, she said, quote, "Thank you gentlemen"? This seemed quaint at the time, but I'm glad it seems so normal to me now.? BTW, it's not an Arby's 'thing', it's a Western/Southern/American/WYOMING (and maybe MT :D) thing.
-
I wonder if Arby's is a good place to pick up chicks? ;D
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"Feels like an Arby's night." </Putty>
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I haven't been to Arby's in quite awhile, maybe I'm missing something?! ;)
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My mom was from coal country VA, (Dickeson County to be exact), nand she raised us to be "Southern Gentlemen". Imagine that, A yankee raised southern. How you and others treat each other, especially the opposite sex, is basically your values as a man or woman. Here on the north side of Chicago, most women do tend to be shallow and "Plastic", whereas the 8 yrs I spent in GA a while ago, most women are down to earth. But there are exceptions to the rule.
Yep, "I'm thinking Arby's"
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So I just realized that no Under 30's discussion would be complete without mention of myspace. ;D
I'm at www.myspace.com/kirkor if anyone wants to add me. 8)
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It would not be complete without mention of Facebook. Anybody else on?
Oh, and Trillian/MSN/Yahoo/Google.
-
ICQ as well, although I doubt many of you have it. :)
-
Trillian works with all of those: yahoo, MSN, AIM, ICQ, and IRC.
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Hay Jared, There is a young lady, about 25, cute and single, here where I work, whom I have given your Myspace address to. Her name is Jenna. I'm trying to talk up Wyoming to her ,thought a younger view(yours) might help. ;D Miles
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Suddenly I've got that song from Fiddler On The Roof in my head ............ ;D
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I havent watched Fiddler for a few years. Trying to clear the fog in my memory banks. Something about matchmaking I'll bet? ::) Miles
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I havent watched Fiddler for a few years. Trying to clear the fog in my memory banks. Something about matchmaking I'll bet?? ? ::)? Miles
The first one that came to my mind was "If I Were a Rich Man" ;D
Zack
*Cursing Jared because he actually has the soundtrack stuck in his head now*
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yeah, i have a profile on that site too, http://www.myspace.com/patriotar15
btw, if you look up my name on there, its a fake name (so that potential employers cant just look up my real name), should be "Jacob Fox"
I suggest that to everyone.
A friend I know nerely lost a job oportunity because of his profile, after which he took off his real name from the profile
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Patriot, ya I saw a news clip on TV about companies who search for their employees,and potential employees, on Myspace and make hiring decisions based on what they find. Be careful out there. Miles
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My wife and I are in our early 20s. I'm 24 and she's 23. We have a 18 month old daughter and are looking strongly in to moving to FSW. I may be coming out to scout Labor day weekend and would like to meet as many FSW's as possible!
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Aright, so I'm 24, and my fiance is 26. We'll be moving to Wyoming whenever I'm done with the Navy, or it's done with me. And I can't wait.
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Alright, I give in... I, too, am a member of that time-sucking site known as MySpace...
http://www.myspace.com/laureljean
I've got a couple pictures of Mike on there, too, so now y'all know what we look like. If you look around, you'll also see what my Remington 870 looks like. ;D
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Dear (Younger) Friends,
John Kyle aka Prince John I and I car-pooled to the 2005 jamboree. I think he's like 26.
At the Three Forks event in 2003, I met Max Orhai who seems to be in his twenties, and his sister Martha who would be 19 this year.
It seems entirely possible that my old, tired memory could fetch forth a few others for this interesting group.
Regards,
Jim
http://myspace.com/planetaryjim
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Well, if even Alex Jones has a myspace entry...maybe I should, too.
Not that I any longer have the time for yet another computer responsibility.
I enjoyed touring y'all's profiles.
All were unique, which I liked.
It's what I most like about FSWers!
Oh, and thanks for mentioning me and my books in your faves.
Very touching to see. Authors do most of their work in
self-imposed solitary confinement, and it's very nice for
them to witness outside results of their labors.
Boston
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Gee, Boston, do I sense a bit of a feeling of competition between the both of you? ;D
I have to admit, I do to....
Alex Jones Polemicism matches my own, and I have yet to get a "jaw-dropping exception".
The question is, how do you stay active in the Patriot movement, without sacrificing your potential of finding a mate?
I take the honesty approach, by letting women see what I am...
If she cant put up with my political views nor my passion to do what I must for the preservation of Liberty...
Then she's not worth it. So might as well and let it be seen...
I guess either.
A. There are women who ARE attracted to Polemics (apparently they exist)
B. Look for women who ARE polemics
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I only know one woman who is polemic like that, and she is happily taken. Or she has already happily taken someone. Oh, hell, I don't know if the language can suit you...
-
I'm no expert on the definition of polemic, it seems the solution would be to not be polemic though. I may be wrong, but girls are attracted to leaders. Are you a leader? or are you a complainer? Are you whining about modern problems and everything wrong with society, or are you taking charge and focusing on solutions. Nobody really likes people who complain all the time about any subject, so I assume girls wouldn't either. Everyone admires leaders and people who focus on solutions and not problems.
For me, I wouldn't use it as an excuse for not having a girl, nor would I use it as an excuse to not be active in what I believe in.
That's my take on it, maybe a girl or anyone else can correct me if I am wrong.
-
Richard, good points bro.
Along similar lines, I've read that there are three kinds of people: those who talk about things, those who talk about other people, and those who talk about ideas -- winners talk about ideas.
-
The question is, how do you stay active in the Patriot movement, without sacrificing your potential of finding a mate?
I take the honesty approach, by letting women see what I am...
If she cant put up with my political views nor my passion to do what I must for the preservation of Liberty...
Then she's not worth it. So might as well and let it be seen...
I guess either.
A. There are women who ARE attracted to Polemics (apparently they exist)
B. Look for women who ARE polemics
PatriotAR15, if you're set on having a family, then I would NOT let your
politics supercede that. Most women desirous of children will shy away
from whom they see as extremists because of the perceived risk.
The freedom movement will likely survive without any of our individual
best efforts, yours and mine included. The real question for you is:
Will you live joyously without a mate and family?
I've seen your MySpace account. Very few women will positively respond
to such overt politics, and overt politics seems your entire focus there.
Perhaps a webpage for such, and leave MySpace for the man behind the views?
This whole struggle for freedom is a marathon, not a sprint.
Pace yourself, my friend.
Don't waste your 30s in the ring, unless you truly have something unique to offer,
without which the movement would significantly suffer.
Meaning, enjoy your life along the way, and most men enjoy life more with a mate,
then without one. There is very little joy in being a freedom activist, and the quiet
sense of inner satisfaction goes only so far.
The best revenge is living well, joyfully, and raising a healthy family.
I wouldn't let politics, etc. get in the way of that.
YMMV; this is only my own perspective.
Something you may want to consider:
Bachelorhood makes for a fine breakfast, a flat lunch, and a miserable dinner.
Boston
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Understood Boston,
But how does one choose a right mate?
I mean, obviously, evn though as you said, dont let politics get in the way...
Should it get in the way if the girl in question is a complete socialist or fascist?
Afterall, I cant just abandon my principles...and I know your not advocating that...
But eventually, the subject WILL come up...
If i try to hide my principles from her...one day she may be invited to my place of residence, and she looks for the bathroom and finds my Gun/Survival Gear/Books closet.
I somehow think thats a BAD way for her to learn both, what my political views are AND how serious I am in defending liberty....
But how does one find a girl who will likely tolerate a Patriot's lifestyle (IE, gun owning, survivalist minded) and how to gradually let them in the know...
Even if it is on the backburner,...she WILL Find the backburner...
I think that the way it should be done is how my friend did, which is he gradually let her know. IE, he didnt try to hide it, but neither did he volunteer it. So he let her know he's into shooting,...course he got more political "extreme" after she married him, after he lost faith in the GOP.
Thing is, with me, its hard to seperate my principles from myself, even for a moment. I know how to keep my views to myself for a while, but eventually they ARE KNOWN.
Heck I moved to an entirely different state for the purpose of liberty, (Also for experiencing it myself)...
Also, as for my myspace. The intent of my myspace wasnt to attract a mate, but to express myself and meet likeminded people. If I wanted a myspace account for that purpose (of finding a mate), id just do what others do, and open a seperate account for personal live stuff and more about me. But I just think myspace is the venue.
So I guess the question is...what to look for in a woman, and when you find her and attract her....when do you let her know about "Mr Hyde".
Maybe Im just a young crazy fool who probably went off the deep end ;)
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ISNT the venue*
-
Still looking :(
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Some women have their own gun/survival gear closet. They do exist, so don't give up. Although I did notice a lack of women at the last gun show I attended. :-\
-
PatriotAR15, you shouldn't abandon your principles,
but you also don't have to wear Gadsden Flag underwear, either...
Give a girl a chance to catch up with you.
Don't overwhelm her at first.
If she digs you, you've an ear to speak about politics, etc.
Balance, my friend, balance...is the key of life, if there is a key.
As far as introducing her to your "Mr. Hyde", find out first what issues
you're already in agreement about. The IRS, privacy, the TSA, whatever,
and build on that.
You're looking for fertile soil with a few saplings, not a forest.
If you're not already in agreement about at least a few things, then don't
bother with any "conversion" and keep looking.
Boston
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Okay, realistically, I'm not supposed to be here. I might be just a TAD over your upper age limit. But...
I do know something about relationships. Especially failed ones, LOL! But failures are where lessons are learned, right?
No matter what it is that's important to you, the main thing is for you to decide what's a "deal-breaker" for you. Chances are awfully good you're not going to find a mirror image of yourself out there. So what MUST you have? What will you absolutely REFUSE to put up with? Everything else can be changed, compromised, ignored, or tolerated without grievous harm to you and your happiness.
My own uncompromising criteria DOES happen to include politics as it happens, but yours doesn't have to. The one thing you DO have to decide is that you're going to decide to decide. As Boston so realistically pointed out, though it's never too late, it CAN be too late for SOME things, and you never know what you're missing while you're waiting, either!
Sorta like moving to Wyoming when you think about it. ~W~
LL
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I bet moving to WY deffinately DID boost my chances for finding a somewhat like-minded simular interests, type girl...atleast more than my chances in Peoples Republik of NJ!!!
But yeah I already do that Boston, but I guess its good you said it and reinforced that. Normally when I am full out about my views with a girl...its for ONE REASON.
Either 1. I already know the girl thinks simularly anyway.
or 2. Im not interested in her.
If im interested, and I have no idea what her leanings are...then i DO TREAD lightly...
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Here's my Myspace page....
http://www.myspace.com/jedbodacious
Who else has one?
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Understood Boston,
But how does one choose a right mate?
I mean, obviously, evn though as you said, dont let politics get in the way...
Should it get in the way if the girl in question is a complete socialist or fascist?
Afterall, I cant just abandon my principles...and I know your not advocating that...
But eventually, the subject WILL come up...
If i try to hide my principles from her...one day she may be invited to my place of residence, and she looks for the bathroom and finds my Gun/Survival Gear/Books closet.
I somehow think thats a BAD way for her to learn both, what my political views are AND how serious I am in defending liberty....
But how does one find a girl who will likely tolerate a Patriot's lifestyle (IE, gun owning, survivalist minded) and how to gradually let them in the know...
Even if it is on the backburner,...she WILL Find the backburner...
I think that the way it should be done is how my friend did, which is he gradually let her know. IE, he didnt try to hide it, but neither did he volunteer it. So he let her know he's into shooting,...course he got more political "extreme" after she married him, after he lost faith in the GOP.
Thing is, with me, its hard to seperate my principles from myself, even for a moment. I know how to keep my views to myself for a while, but eventually they ARE KNOWN.
Heck I moved to an entirely different state for the purpose of liberty, (Also for experiencing it myself)...
Also, as for my myspace. The intent of my myspace wasnt to attract a mate, but to express myself and meet likeminded people. If I wanted a myspace account for that purpose (of finding a mate), id just do what others do, and open a seperate account for personal live stuff and more about me. But I just think myspace is the venue.
So I guess the question is...what to look for in a woman, and when you find her and attract her....when do you let her know about "Mr Hyde".
Maybe Im just a young crazy fool who probably went off the deep end ;)
There's no need to abandon your principles. I have found in most of my relationships that especially younger (18-25) girls really haven't established their OWN principles. This doesn't make them moldable per se and you really wouldn't want to have a girl without conviction but I think you will find that if you aren't confrontational with a girl that she will readily adapt a great many of your beliefs if she finds you a likable person and isn't diametrically opposed to them in the first place. This means that most any girl will do, so long as she isn't already a volunteer at planned parenthood or something. Think of when you were in high school. I don't know how many times the girls I dated all of a sudden started to like the same kind of music I liked and things like that.
Also ask yourself what you're looking for in a girl. I was fortunate enough to land a girl that enjoys shooting and is active politically (and is a babe) but I didn't NEED that. I only needed a girl that I cared about that wasn't fundamentally opposed to my work and my beliefs. You don't necessarily need a woman on the firing line with you, just one that doesn't yell at you for blowing your paycheck on that battle rifle instead of taking her to the opera.
As far as your Mr. Hyde goes, you are already starting with one foot in the grave of failure. Even if you jokingly see that as a Mr. Hyde in you, then it really is. When I first got in the freedom movement I could jokingly refer to myself as a crazy but as I started to take it a little more seriously I no longer joke about my beliefs simply because they are unusual. This isn't to say that I don't have a sense of humor, I'm sure Laurel can attest that I do, but you shouldn't even halfway think of your beliefs as crazy because they aren't the norm. If you portray yourself in such a light, then they will be perceived that way by others. In any case, good luck man. Women do love sponteneity and you just moving certainly proves you've got that.
Mike
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Normally when I am full out about my views with a girl...its for ONE REASON.
Either 1. I already know the girl thinks simularly anyway.
or 2. Im not interested in her.
OK, AR, you're getting there, but you're not there yet.
Point being, string out your "full out" discussion of your views.
If she's not asking questions, then you're talking too much.
And blasting away a nonprospect with your magnum beliefs doesn't help
the next guy who believes similarly. Trust me on this, as I did it myself, once
when I was about 24. She got a dose of Ayn Rand that would have befitted
Atlas Shrugged, and I was so high-handed about that it embarrassed me
within only a few weeks (vs. years).
What is natural, logical, sensible, etc. to you may take her some time
to digest. Also, she will tend to much more deeply explore the ramifications
of you and your beliefs than you her/hers.
Give her time to do the gradual math to understand where she may
fit in all of it.
And remember this, even if she does not want children, her programming
will constantly force the self-question: "Is this man the best bet for my
genetic material? Will he protect me and mine?"
It's as simple and crass as that.
Finally, if you and your beliefs seem to her a bummer, forget it.
Women are not so solemn, intense, and gritty...thank God.
Women save men from themselves, and vice versa.
That's the entire point of the sexes.
Don't look for some political octave, look for a pleasing chord.
She maxes out at Rush Limbaugh for now, but otherwise trips your trigger?
Cool; hang on to her.
Last bit of Unca Boston advice: smile often and hugely.
It will help to negate your apparent intensity.
She will tolerate acres of camo BDUs, as long as she knows there's a grinning boy inside.
Boston
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Actually Mike,
The "Mr Hyde" was a reference to how Boston suggested that people should store the majority of their weapons and gear and books at a seperate location other than their main living space. The clean home, IE "Dr Jekyll" would have only enough guns to fight your way out, while the "Mr Hyde" location kept the rest of the goodies. Sorry, figured that cross reference with BGB would've been caught. guess i was too vague :D sorry!
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OK, AR, you're getting there, but you're not there yet.
Point being, string out your "full out" discussion of your views.
If she's not asking questions, then you're talking too much.
And blasting away a nonprospect with your magnum beliefs doesn't help
the next guy who believes similarly.? Trust me on this, as I did it myself, once
when I was about 24.? She got a dose of Ayn Rand that would have befitted
Atlas Shrugged, and I was so high-handed about that it embarrassed me
within only a few weeks (vs. years).
What is natural, logical, sensible, etc. to you may take her some time
to digest.? Also, she will tend to much more deeply explore the ramifications
of you and your beliefs than you her/hers.?
Give her time to do the gradual math to understand where she may
fit in all of it.?
And remember this, even if she does not want children, her programming
will constantly force the self-question:? "Is this man the best bet for my
genetic material?? Will he protect me and mine?"?
It's as simple and crass as that.
Finally, if you and your beliefs seem to her a bummer, forget it.
Women are not so solemn, intense, and gritty...thank God.
Women save men from themselves, and vice versa.
That's the entire point of the sexes.
Don't look for some political octave, look for a pleasing chord.
She maxes out at Rush Limbaugh for now, but otherwise trips your trigger?
Cool; hang on to her.
Last bit of Unca Boston advice:? smile often and hugely.
It will help to negate your apparent intensity.
She will tolerate acres of camo BDUs, as long as she knows there's a grinning boy inside.
Boston
Actually, In person I DO smile alot :D
I just dont smile in pictures. And If I do smile its more of a smirk than a smile.
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I am 24 yrs old and I live in Crook county, south of Beulah. I just joined this message board today and I hope to view a lot more of it in the future. I will send in my letter of intent and payment soon, probably after this weekends gun show if there is any left. I can't wait to meet the rest of you at an upcoming jomboree or shooting event, especially unca Boston himself. I have a myspace pages as well.
www.myspace.com/imout4revenge
Following along with your subject of ladies and our political views and action plans. I mentioned over lunch with a female friend of mine ( I got stuck in the friend zone long ago and I am trying to dig my way out ) about the free state project. I mentioned NH and Wyoming and that the epicenter of the wyoming movement was crook county. I explained the ideals of the FSW members and what the hope to accomplish. While more a hippie than a gun nut like myself she liked the idea of liberty and being able to live freely. She does shoot and bought her a gun for self protection in hopes she would carry it (which she has not, but occupies her nightstand). I think in further conversations where I present the facts and allow her to make an opinion she will come to the same decisions I have and not be scared away.
Let me know what you think and I can't wait to hear from you guys.
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Hey bro, welcome! even though you are already in wyoming! I am 20 and just moved here. Look forward to meeting you and seeing you around the forum.
Have you thought about coming to the upcoming guernsey shoot at the end of the month? Here is the thread with info. http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum//index.php?topic=2709.0
Hope to see you there.
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Welcome Beulahtrash, glad to have you with us. Miles
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Hiya BeulahTrash!
I won't be able to hit the Rapid show this weekend as I'll be at Clem's training class, but we'll have to meet up soon.
And about this:
> I got stuck in the friend zone long ago and I am trying to dig my way out
Keep her as a friend who values liberty, but don't waste valuable time and effort trying to get out of the friend zone
Won't happen.
Research ladder theory: http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html
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That was a great website, but a little racy for a man of my morals...but still the advice is still somewhat appliccable!
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An interesting site, Jared, thanks.
Raw...but little to argue with...
Beulahtrash, keep your morals, of course, but never be the puppy.
Feel obliged to turn down your friend occasionally.
Having "Other Things To Do" 1:2 times will be good for you.
Such is necessary for any possible ladder jumping (no guarantees, though, :-\).
Finally, a woman won't rashly place you on the friend ladder if she is
not certain that you've already laddered her first. It's nothing personal.
Mask your interest. This will become easier as you mature, because the
testosterone poisoning decreases (not that such reduces the sex drive,
only the ridiculous urgency of it) while you become more selective.
Also, once they think they've figured you out, that is the file folder you will occupy.
Be genuinely different and resist classification for as long as you can.
Mysterious ambivalence of interest works wonders. It will nearly force them to express
the first interest, out of intrigued bewilderment.
Right now, you're 24 and women know much more about what makes you tick
than you do. You're no match for them at the moment; none of us were.
That's the trick required of species propagation, not that it's totally a bad thing, but
you don't want to be one of the inevitable casualties along the way.
Slow it down, and reassess often, else you'll end up with a very different future
than you once imagined for yourself, and with whom.
Good luck, fellas.
(Why am I not charging for this stuff???)
Boston
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::) Hi everybody, I'm new here. I am in my 20's also, I am in Rapid City now, but I'm from Houston. I have found that most girls have gone WILD and finding one worthy enough to settle down with is most difficult indeed! I plan on moving to NE Wyoming, and before I do I hope to find me a FSW minded type gal. If not? No big deal, I'll keep myself busy till the right one comes along. Hope she isn't taken though! God Bless! ;)
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Howdy Dan Fong, Those South Dakota girls were wild when I was your age and visiting my cousins in that country. Sounds like it hasn't changed much. Glad to have you here. Miles
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I'm 22. It was nice meeting so many folks my age at the JAM3!
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PatriotAR15, you shouldn't abandon your principles,
but you also don't have to wear Gadsden Flag underwear, either...
For those of us who wish to overlook uncle boston's advice and relish every waking moment of it
http://www.cafepress.com/gadsden.4407973
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(http://images.cafepress.com/product/4407973_240x240_Front.jpg)
I shoulda known they existed...
Boston
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Made a myspace group for those of us that are on there ...
http://groups.myspace.com/freestatewyoming
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Jared, cool ! So I am kind of old and outside the loop on all of this new fangled "myspace" stuff. Do I just jump in with both feet ? I don't want to mess anything up ::) Miles
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Wow, Jared, looked at your ladder theory website. So what does is mean that all my good friends are male and I really don't have any female friends?
Jackie
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(http://images.cafepress.com/product/4407973_240x240_Front.jpg)
I shoulda known they existed...
Boston
;D NOW THAT is funny!
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Jackie, from my experience, that would suggest that you enjoy a level of emotional complexity that can be easier found in men than women. I tend to be the reverse- I enjoy more emotional complexity, so I have more women friends.
I am not sure the ladder theory deals with this at all.
I am waiting (with safety goggles and ear plugs) for Laurel to read the Ladder theory and give us her response....
-Max
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One man's "emotional complexity" is another man's "drama factory". ;D
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Max,
You may be right. After bashing my brain around all day, I LIKE the ease of relating to men after work. They drink, tell jokes, razz on each other good-naturedly, burp, fart, and are otherwise adorable. Plus they like to eat real food instead of bird seed and rabbit fodder. You have to be too careful about what you say around most women, or you'll find it coming back to haunt you in unusual ways.
Jackie
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I am not a big believer in the ladder theory. I think it is completely correct in a sense, but it's on an axis that's irrelevent and gives plenty of excuses but no solutions. It also blames females for something that's not there fault and uses them as an excuse.
I am by no means an expert in this field, but I study it intensely as I am determined to get that part of my life under control. I have found that to be successful in anything you must take responsibility for all your failures and successes.
I may be wrong, but I look at it like this. It's not the girl's fault if you get put on the friend ladder. The girl doesn't make that choice, it's hardwired into her. You make the choice which ladder your going to be on.
The basis for attraction is Survial and Replication value. Men's attraction switches are turned on by 80% replication value and 20% survival value. Women's for 80% survival value and 20% replication value.
The basis for Neg Theory is that women have a protection sheild to filter out the weak men. Your Inner confidence and self-belief usually materializes itself on the outside by inceased success, more friends, more money, etc.(ie survival traits)
Basicly if you insult or bust on them in a cocky and funny way, this shows that you have inner confidence and are not afraid of them. By exuding this self-confidence, it shows that you must have lots of survival traits because that same self-confidence materializes on the outside in all other areas of life. You may get tested many times and you can't give in. It's a natural urge for women to try turn their husbands into nice guys once they get married or start a relationship, even if it means that they will no longer be as attracted to them. It seems like a lot of this is done unconsciencely by both parties. It's hardwired into our genetics.
After you bust through this natural sheild that protects them from weak men, then you can talk to them like normal. It's hard to really explain because I am just learning all of it but basicly your 100 times more likely to attract a girl if you refuse to buy her a drink and tell her to buy you one, than if you offer to buy her a drink.
As I said earlier in the thread, I am no expert on this but I have some great resources to point to if any of you guys or girls are interested. PM me for more info.
I know I didn't summarize this as well as I hoped to, but I would be interested on anyone else's thoughts on my comments.
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OOOOh... I can't wait to read what Laurel says about this... tee hee... >:D
Love the boxers, boys. Why aren't there any for us girls? :P
BTW, unusual theory, RichardF. We did it a lot different when I was 20 something. Oh well, live and learn, I guess.
Lurking MamaLiberty
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Thanks for the feedback MamaLiberty. I am also looking forward to what Laurel has to say about it.
I know I didn't explain it real well. I forgot to differentiate that neg theory is different from whats known as a "sh*t test". They are both very small factors in the big picture also, not as an alternative to the ladder theory. They don't really explain much.
From what I've read "negging" doesn't always have to be used, only on girls with huge egos. Both are usually completely unconscience. A girl might think and say she wants a nice sweet guy, but that may not be what attracts her. A "sh*t test" is given unconsciencely also, if you fail it, you sudden become unattractive and go on the friend ladder. Such as if a girl asks you to do something. If you kiss up to her and do everything she is less attracted to you.
I could be wrong, but I've read both males and females can't choose what makes them attracted to other people on a physical level. I believe it's hardwired into us. What people think and say they are attracted to are not always the same as what they really are. I may be completely wrong. I am just going according to what I'm reading and learning right now which makes sense to me.
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I suspect this isn't something you're going to learn out of books. Just as the real market can't be "managed" and only the truly free interactions of people can comprise a healthy economy, so the interactions of human beings in every other area of life is endlessly varied and unpredictable. It can't be planned, and it can't really be anticipated with any accuracy.
The only way it works at all, far as I can see, is if we recognize the same dynamics at work in male/female relationships as are natural in every other human interaction. Each person owns themselves. Each person is responsible for themselves. Each person has their own baggage from their previous experience, and must work through or around that to get to where they want to be.
Dysfunction and disappointment are the result of failing to recognize this and attempts to manipulate others to our own needs and goals.
The only really stable and happy relationships I've ever seen or known were built on mutual respect and non-aggression, even in the smallest things. The partners must be willing to work together in voluntary cooperation for mutual goals, while remaining open to the fact that both goals and methods can change over time. They must also realize that they are responsible for their own happiness and well being. Nobody else can make YOU happy. :)
MamaLiberty - an old woman who has been there and done that... :)
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Boys, boys... you underestimate me! First of all, I read the ladder theory YEARS ago. :) My analysis is this:
The selection criteria are not very accurate, at least not consciously. Where the LT suggests that women seek money/power primarily, MOST women I know really don't care about either, except for the extent to which they provide basic necessities. Having said this, I do believe that women value these things more subconsciously than we realize. It's part of the instinctual nesting drive - we want a big tough guy (power, manifested in different forms) who can provide for the welfare of our family (MONEY!). What the LT neglects, however, is that the evolved human brain DOES value other qualities - like sensitivity, intelligence, sense of humor, etc. because they ALSO pertain to the ability to provide for the family. While I'm not planning on having kids any time soon, I wouldn't date a guy if I didn't think he could be a good father - instilling values and ethics into our children. I wouldn't date a guy who was unkind, either, no matter how rich and powerful he is.
Now, selection criteria aside, I think the structural ladder part of the LT is, while perhaps a bit crude, dead-on. As Richard suggested, however, it's not necessarily a woman's "fault" or even an intentional thing if a guy ends up on one ladder or the other. I'll use a friend of mine as an example. I knew this guy all through high school and towards the end of those four years he wound up with a major crush on me. (Well, at least that's the point at which he articulated it.) So much so, in fact, that he sat me down and basically had a one-man intervention with regards to my high school sweetheart who he was CONVINCED was not good enough for me and not making me happy. Well, he was right, but I didn't want to hear it right then. A couple months later, after graduation, I'd broken up with said "sweetheart," and the friend wanted a chance to take me out. Even though I didn't really feel an attraction for him, and he certainly didn't have money or power, there were a lot of things I DID like about him (funny, quirky, lots in common) and I WANTED to be able to fall for him. I really, REALLY tried to have feelings for this guy. He was trying to jump ladders and I was doing my damndest to let him... But it just wasn't there. So, according to the LT, I "misrepresented" what ladder this guy was on. Maybe that's true, but I certainly didn't do it with malice. I was taking a chance and it just didn't pan out. It happens!
So yes, I think there are ladders. I don't think the majority of women get as much glee out of kicking men into the "abyss" as the site suggests. There are, however, exceptions to every rule, so I'm sure there ARE women who give at least 50% consideration to money/power and women who DO take great joy out of abyss-kicking. :) Now for the important stuff: what can you, Joe Singleguy, do about it?
1) Don't try to get chicks who give at least 50% consideration to money/power unless you're looking for one shallow broad.
2) Accept that there are ladders.
3) Accept that deep down, in your primordial heart of breeding hearts, you probably WOULD sleep with (or more seriously, procreate with) your female friends. You wouldn't be friends if that woman didn't have SOME quality you found attractive. It may be physical, it may be mental, it may be emotional. Bottom line, your answer to this question: "If she were the last woman on earth and you had to sleep with her to ensure the continuation of the human race, would you?" will almost invariably be yes.
4) Accept that her answer will NOT invariably be yes. I DO have guy friends who I think are great as friends, but never in a million years could imagine knocking boots with. Seriously. Like, good-bye human race, sorry I couldn't pick up the slack on this one, but... nope. Not gonna happen.
5) It never usually doesn't hurt to try to jump ladders (at least once), unless the girl is really psycho and will freak out that you even considered it. If that's the case, she might be a little too unstable for friendship anyway. :) Really though, it's happened to most of us females a time or fifty, and most of us are pretty good at letting you down gently (aka kicking you into the abyss) and shrugging it off, returning you to "friend status" and us to being totally cool with that. At that point, you can make some choices:
a. Change yourself in ways that might get you to the other ladder and try again later. It's pretty rare, but it happens. Mike was once FIRMLY planted on the friends ladder. He changed a lot, though, and I changed too, and the "jump" eventually worked out for him. Mind you, he'd tried before, and I wasn't having it. We stayed friends, though, because we were both capable of being mature about it. The big thing here is to never intentionally misrepresent yourself as something you're not, 'cause eventually that WILL come out via your true actions and it'll probably be ugly. If you REALLY change because YOU want to and you can maintain that as the "new you" instead of a temporary thing designed to get the girl, it'll be a lot better than the alternative.
b. Freak out and decide you can never speak to that girl ever again. Probably not the most mature course of action. Also a quick way to lose a good friend.
c. Give up and resign yourself to the friends ladder. Depending on the situation and depending on the girl, sometimes this IS the best thing to do, especially after repeated attempts at choice "a." Even girls who are pretty chill about attempted ladder-jumping have a breaking point, and continuing to try with a girl who has made it very clear that she doesn't like you LIKE THAT is also a slow, annoying way to lose a good friend. Sometimes you've just gotta let it go. There is no one-size-fits-all guide to when that moment is - use your head. If you start thinking you're acting creepy, stalkery, or downright annoyingly, you probably are.
Did that cover most of it? :)
Laurel
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We did it a lot different when I was 20 something.
This is indeed true Mama. Unfortunately things have changed and not for the better. :(
Richard's points about negging and shittests are spot on. Like the song says, don't hate the player - hate the game. ;D
And in a nice libertarian twist, what enables 'the game' is big government: welfare, feminism, etc.
Women are hardwired, yes, and the safety net of government allows them to act in sub-optimal ways.
Did that cover most of it? :)
Laurel
Not too shabby. 8)
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One more thing - Richard, while I agree with you on the conscious vs. subconscious intentions of women, I heartily disagree with you regarding your "buy me a drink theory."
Mike once pissed off his date by suggesting that very thing (and that was AFTER he'd bought her several) and a second date didn't even end up on the radar. I told him when I heard about it that I'd be pissed too - and if some random guy at a bar said that to me, I'd laugh at him!
*shrug* Maybe it works for you, but it certainly wouldn't work with me. I'm a pretty fiercely independed kinda gal, but I am also quite old-fashioned in many ways and am always way, way more attracted to a gentleman than a jerk. I'd save the joking and the razzing for when you already know her, because it's probably not going to be a very good pick-up strategy.
Basicly if you insult or bust on them in a cocky and funny way, this shows that you have inner confidence and are not afraid of them. By exuding this self-confidence, it shows that you must have lots of survival traits because that same self-confidence materializes on the outside in all other areas of life.
Or, she's going to wonder what the deal is with the cocky persona and never give you a second thought. Women are far more perceptive than men, face it. If you put up this "cocky" front to try to convince her you're confident, she'll know if you're faking it. Nine times out of ten cockiness is a sign of compensation for a LACK of confidence rather than true confidence. In my opinion, the way you show a woman you're "not afraid of her" is to walk up to her, introduce yourself, ask her name, buy her a drink, and talk to her like she's a human being rather than some prize to be won for the evening. BE GOOD AT BEING YOURSELF. That's confidence. You can joke with her later - show her you have some class, first.
Laurel
- Laurel
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I can say for a FACT that I have female friends who, I wouldnt want a "significant other" type relationship with. Even though she wants one with me. But thats because there are some traits that REALLY Bother me about her. So I dont think its true that, men cant be JUST FRIENDS with females. Too add to it, I actually used to "be with" this girl in question. We are both still good friends, and I dont feel any "wierd" about it. What makes me angry, is how its always "Attracted vs. Unnattracted" type issues that face me. Either I like them and they dont like me, or I Dont like them and they like me.
One other thing that angers me, is how girls have a way of ....almost trying to get you to like them...only so they can shoot you down. I've been flirted with, and been given INTENTIONAL false signals from women, and been totally shot down in the end. Alot of people say "shes just a heartless bi***" But Im wondering if maybe there is some hardwiring in women....
I think maybe deep down, women like too spread their influence amongst many men, in order to reassure them that there are more options in case the current situation breaks down. This of course doesnt necessarilly mean that your the next runner up.... Indeed you might be at the bottom of the list after 30 other men that she knows she can hook. So just because she does this, doesnt mean she's REALLY attracted to you... That and women are attention getters...from my experience...
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Wandered over here wondering what the "under 30's" were into.
Won't stay long, but I have to ask...whatever happened to just wanting to get laid?
jkl (who came of age in the 60's...and enjoyed the 70's too...and the 80's...well you're never too old)
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Hey I'm under 30 and I agree with you whole-heartedly. I'm engaged to be married, so that whole phase is over... but when I was single, I didn't analyze things so much. Just do what you what you can! 8)
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I'm (way) over 30, but I'll throw in my $0.02:
I've had white friends, black friends, Mexican friends, Vietnamese friends, Italian friends,
but NEVER had a woman friend (meaning a female friend in a non-sexual sense).
I can't imagine it. It just seems weird. I can't picture calling up (female name) and going out to have a beer, or shoot pool, or shoot guns, or go to camping.
Maybe that says something about my upbringing or the way society says we interact with people? Dunno. Just never seemed to know any females that were at all interested in anything I wanted to do, so what kind of friend would that be?
Just thinking about that ladder theory.
Mac
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One other thing that angers me, is how girls have a way of ....almost trying to get you to like them...only so they can shoot you down.
There's a saying - "Women want an endless supply of men to reject."
They don't actually want you, they just want to know that they are attractive to you. By responding to the signals you've satisfied her ego and she can shoot you down.
Which is why negging and other aspects of player theory work ... by appearing disintersted in her, you spark her interest in you, because she's thinking "why doesn't this guy like me?"
And you get into the social proofing concept as well - girls want guys who other girls want ... both because of female competition and the fact that you have been vetted in a sense. If other girls find you attractive, the girl will place you higher on the ladder because you will have status. It's the whole "man I couldn't get girls to look twice at me before, but now that I have a girl it's like they all want me".... When you show obvious interest, you show yourself to be of lower status than her, and therefore less desirable.
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Bottom line with player theory, IMHO: if you play the game and the only kind of girl you're going to attract is the kind who LIKES TO PLAY GAMES!
Keep in mind that the way YOU act will attract certain types of women. Attract a girl who likes the game, and she may leave you for another player - eventually you won't be interesting to her anymore. Attract a girl who likes YOU, not the chase, and you'll have a better shot at having her for life.
So yeah, if you're just looking to get laid, by all means go for the former. I'm not even saying there's anything wrong with that! I think there are two kinds of guys here, or at least guys looking for two different things, and theories and advice are not one-size-fits all. There's a way to go about things if you want to land a girl for a night, and a way you go about things if you want to land her for good. Very rarely, IMHO, are they one and the same.
Laurel
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Yeah, I for one arnt into "the game". I am lookin more for someone to "settle down with"...
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I agree with Laurel. Play the game, you get game players. Nice guys and girls, ready to settle down, don't look for spouse material at the bar where game playing on both sides abound. You'll find them at functions where common interests bring you together. Also, if you go at it with a "Ladder Therory" attitude, you yourself will be limiting good potential spouses. Time to climb down off the ladder, dismantle your own, and take each person as an individual. Your sucess rate might improve.
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So let's narrow the focus of the question: How does a guy find one of the badass libertarian-type women when he is not immediately marriage-minded, yet also not wanting to just play the field?
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Well, one good resource is friends, daughters and grand-daughters of badass libertarian women you already know. Also activities that they might enjoy; horse-back riding (links back to a pioneer spirit) try joining a local saddle club, martial arts class or aerobic exercise class like tae bo or kick-boxing. Any other activities you might like doing; kayaking class, rock climbing class, hand gun class, ect. Most of your badass libertarian women don't hang out in groups in malls shopping or in nail salons or the hottest dance clubs. Although you might rarely find them there, indulging themselves on occasion.
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I'm just over thirty by a few years...my advice is....find one (a woman) now..while you are still young and have the patience and energy.It only gets more difficult the older you get. I want a young one who can bear/raise my children but can't find one who is mature enough to have an intellegent conversaition with. I love older women..but they have kids and ex's and can't move or LOTS of baggage. If not for my belief in a supreme being and his intent for good for me I would despare! Enjoyable thread!....Joel
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Hey guys,
I just read The Total Money Makeover and I thought it was a great help. I'm have no idea where some of you all are at when it comes to finances, but I have quite a bit of student debt and this book showed me a way that I could feasibly pay it off in a shorter period of time than I was expecting, and still have a bit of money stashed away for emergencies. It doesn't deal with any "secrets" or anything like that; instead he just focuses on busting the myths about debt and saving that have been taught to us since birth (well, at least through the media).
His basic philosophy states that 80% of becoming wealthy is behaviour and 20% is knowledge. This book is about teaching yourself to become disciplined so you can live free of the slavery that is debt.
I know this is a little OT, but it is something that is helping me, and you all being youngsters like myself may also find some good advice in it as well.
Zack
http://www.amazon.com/Total-Money-Makeover-Financial-Fitness/dp/0785263268/sr=8-1/qid=1169233943/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-2935180-3962544?ie=UTF8&s=books
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I don't think it's off topic at all - good money management while young will make sure you are well set up as you get older. It can be tough to go without and invest while your buds are buying PS3's, but in the long run it will pay off handsomely.
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So let's narrow the focus of the question: How does a guy find one of the badass libertarian-type women when he is not immediately marriage-minded, yet also not wanting to just play the field?
Talk to one, e-mail one. We aren't any different than any other females, except for the fact that we are interested in liberty, a topic you already know all about. It takes more than like interests, but you just never know until you do something.
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Well Jen, you're a needle in the preverbal hay stack....however as I recall I found you at libertarian passions
http://www.libertarianpassions.com/
Perhaps that site will help others here out ;D
Jed Bodacious
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Uh, yeah...you did, lol. There still seem to be more guys than girls on there though, and although this thread says "under 30s" which I am just over the hill, it is still relevant. Jeb led me to his MySpace page and that exposed me to other very interesting people on his friends list.
There are actually more Libertarian chicks on MySpace that I can see...they may not be all in the same place, but maybe if Max isn't already on there he should check it out. He might be able to find what he is looking for, although online sort of ventures are different than face-to-face meetings, but it may allow him to somewhat filter his dates. Although, I digress, I have had both bad and good experiences. He might find a young thing and he may get her interested in Free State Wyoming, something I didn't even give so much as a thought to until I got to know Jeb and others. Guess it helps to know there is a movement in the first place...
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My current strategy involves feeling out how people feel about guns. If they are game for going to the range, even if they have never held a gun, then they are worth taking to the range.
Be careful you actually are good before you take people you have just met to the range. There is this one girl who outshot me.... at least she had fun. :)
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Hey guys,
I just read The Total Money Makeover and I thought it was a great help. I'm have no idea where some of you all are at when it comes to finances, but I have quite a bit of student debt and this book showed me a way that I could feasibly pay it off in a shorter period of time than I was expecting, and still have a bit of money stashed away for emergencies.
Zack
http://www.amazon.com/Total-Money-Makeover-Financial-Fitness/dp/0785263268/sr=8-1/qid=1169233943/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-2935180-3962544?ie=UTF8&s=books
Yes, that is an excellent book!!! I keep meaning to catch Dave Ramsey's radio show.
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I'm 33, but look younger. Besides, I'm active duty military and everyone knows we're chronically immature on some things.
Longtime reader, first time poster. I took Boston's Gun Bible to Iraq with my both tours, and read Molon Labe this last time. It made the rounds and I made some recruits.
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Greetings, and welcome to you WiseguyThreeOne then! Glad to hear you are getting recruits! :) ~W~
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Howdy Wiseguy, welcome to the board. Miles
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Thanks, guys. I wandered over from 1911forum and ar15.com since I heard, rather late, that the forum here was up.
I've got two years of active duty with the 101st left, so any relocation is gonna be a while unless someone wants to loan me a basement closet for a mail drop. ;D
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Wow, well god speed to you.
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Thanks.
As for the guys who wanted to meet badass Libertarian gun-loving 20-something women, my two sisters-in-law are both currently unavailable. One is going 'round with a guy from the Ranger Regiment (which is bad enough) and the other I strongly suspect is about to marry a Marine (which is even worse). Should either one become available, I'll let y'all know. ;)
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Dear WiseGuyThreeOne,
Well, I don't know why your comment about your sisters-in-law reminds me of a Tom Lehrer song, but it does!
Regards,
Jim
Be prepared, that's the Boy Scout's marching song
Be prepared, as through life you march along
Be prepared to hold your liquor pretty well
Don't write naughty words on walls if you can't spell
Be prepared to hide that pack of cigarettes
Don't make book if you cannot cover bets
Keep those reefers hidden where you're sure that they will not be found
And be careful not to smoke them when the scoutmaster's around
For he only will insist that it be shared
Be prepared
Be prepared, that's the Boy Scouts' solemn creed
Be prepared, and be clean in word and deed
Don't solicit for your sister, that's not nice
Unless you get a good percentage of her price
Be prepared, and be careful not to do
Your good deeds when there's no one watching you
If you're looking for adventure of a new and different kind
And you come across a Girl Scout who is similarly inclined
Don't be nervous, don't be flustered, don't be scared,
[holds up box of prophylactics]
Be prepared
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I got the good percentage. Well, it was more like orders.
"Go find me a cute guy in uniform or else."
Hey, they're old enough (both 20's) to know what they're doing and if they want to open up auditions for Significant Other, that's on them. But since they're both taken, I'm just mentioning that such women actually do exist and kinda bragging about how cool they are. I get along with my in-laws better than my real family.
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So do your sisters-in-law have friends? West of the Mississippi, and/or who will be at the Jam?
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Thanks.
As for the guys who wanted to meet badass Libertarian gun-loving 20-something women, my two sisters-in-law are both currently unavailable. One is going 'round with a guy from the Ranger Regiment (which is bad enough) and the other I strongly suspect is about to marry a Marine (which is even worse). Should either one become available, I'll let y'all know. ;)
Who would marry a Marine??!!! Those guys are disgusting pieces of amphibious waste.
mike
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Does it seem like mikeyali1776 might have a death wish? :D
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Just remind the "Marine" that they are still part of the NAVY!!!!
J/k, I have the utmost respect for the "Corps", After all I was on an Amphib, (earned the right to pick on 'em)
Kirbey Hook
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AHEM I think someone is looking for a fight here >:D
and as for the Marines being part of the Navy, your right the Men Department of the Navy
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.......*pssst* mike _is_ a Marine.
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Oh I see an Amphib Marine
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.......*pssst* mike _is_ a Marine.
Huh. It's gettin' so ya need a program booklet jes' to keep track o' the players!
8)
Program! Getcher program! Can't know the playerz without a program!
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.......*pssst* mike _is_ a Marine.
*laugh* I thought the dead men and satisfied women I leave in my wake would let all know I was an infantry Marine. Well either that or how much of a scumbag I can be.
mike
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Mike, Army 11B myself, so we're in the same line of work.
My in-laws are all Southern California natives, Riverside County Republicans. My prospective brother-in-law is out of Pendleton. Trucker, but then I don't think the Corps has the most intelligent MOS assignment policies for recruit intake. They took a track runner who speaks five languages and put him in a motor-T outfit. Still, he's got the Embassy school coming up next, so they're making up for it.
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Mike, Army 11B myself, so we're in the same line of work.
My in-laws are all Southern California natives, Riverside County Republicans. My prospective brother-in-law is out of Pendleton. Trucker, but then I don't think the Corps has the most intelligent MOS assignment policies for recruit intake. They took a track runner who speaks five languages and put him in a motor-T outfit. Still, he's got the Embassy school coming up next, so they're making up for it.
*laugh* I got a 98% on my ASVAB. I walked into the recruiters office and said, "Make me a grunt." The recruiter said, "Hell no, you're going to be intel." My reply, " Well, then I guess I'm going to the army then." Those papers came out pretty quick after that. I'm not so sure the corps puts you in bad places so much as dumbass kids put themselves in bad places. And, I guess, as adults we'd probably do it again. My little brother is trying to get a slot in embassy school as a part of his reenlistment bonus too. Every embassy guard I knew liked the job. In any case, nice to know there's a few more grunts around. All hail the infantry, the live I lead as an 03!
mike