Free State Wyoming Forum
Free State Wyoming (FSW) Promotional => Making the Case for Moving Toward Freedom (and Wyoming!) => Topic started by: Rich on September 23, 2009, 01:23:01 PM
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The purpose of this thread is to discuss the development of the 1st 300 moving members,
as a promotional campaign...
Known as: The 300!
The impetus for this was started Here: http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=4823.45 (http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=4823.45)
Starting on page 4...
I like your idea of The 300! That is a reasonable number to reach, and fairly quickly.
Perhaps I can design a Spartenesque badge or pin.
If other FSWers get behind The 300, I think it'll fly.
Let's get a new thread going in FSW Promotional about it!
;)
Boston[/color]
Yes a badge or pin...I am thinking maybe sterling silver, to denote some "Real" Value.
Rich
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Who fits in this category?
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Well, thats part of what we need to determine here, and then how to promote it and the FSW to get MORE
people to move... if you read the previous posts in the link provided, we were just discussing it.
And then we need to use it for our prospective members and our current fence sitters.
As a kind of Nudge... and a goal.
What are your thoughts?
Rich
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300! I like it. >:D
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I was trying to look though the stats...
Other than manually, is there a way to determine from the forum software
such things as:
The #s of Founding members in Wyoming
The #s of FSW members in Wyoming
And this I doubt but i'll ask... If they moved or already lived here.
and do we have members who are not on the forum... IE paper submissions?
Like from back in the day of the original SOFI? ...whom are still active?
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Rich, I have that info, but have not yet decided what to publish.
We're still hashing out the 300 concept.
Also, the 100+ movers are not all FSWers, but did move to Wyoming
in part through/because of the FSW. I.e., they wouldn't have likely
moved to without the existence of the FSW. So, I count them.
They're FSWers in all but a SofI. MWD and DJ are prime recent examples.
Boston
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Right got it...
Just off the top of my head I can think of 8 maybe more previous resident
Members, anyway its not tons of folks, or maybe it's more than I think.
But we'll flesh this out over time.
As this gets developed.
Rich
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Yes a badge or pin...I am thinking maybe sterling silver, to denote some "Real" Value.
Is the 301st person and any after that of only some lesser degree of or otherwise artificial value relative to the first 300?
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Is the 301st person and any after that of only some lesser degree of or otherwise artificial value relative to the first 300?
No. but getting 300 is a milestone and will help achieve "critical mass" as it were for future recruiting
efforts. Maybe critical mass isn't correct but say a demonstrable number? and its recognition
for the early "Pioneers of the movement" who were willing to risk relocation.
And it has significance in the basis of Molon Labe'.
All kinds of companies, and organizations use Early Incentives, to get people to try new things.
And if the incentive has little or no value its not much of an incentive then.
I would want it to be something that got passed down, not tossed out.
Rich
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I had thought of running it like the Next 1,000 pledge at pledgebank.com/Next1000 In this case, The 300 would include:
1. FSWers who had already moved to Wyoming
2. Folks who will be able to move by a certain date, or within some time (seven years) of signing the pledge
3. Locals who had become superactivists who had been exerting efforts equal to the difficulty others had faced in moving out to Wyoming.
4. Perhaps Montana folk (and folks in adjacent states) who, nevertheless, are helping out tremendously with the Wyoming effort, though not sure about this one if they don't live there year round...
#2, in my mind is the hard one. pledgebank.com tends to adhere to deadlines, which are good for getting folks on the ball at the last minute. The worry that the deadline could pass caused a lot of us to get on the phone and email everyone about the First 1,000 pledge out here, and we just barely managed days before the deadline... but it really helped FSP-New Hampshire. Pledgebank is great for getting folks to agree to do something in the future, but makes the pledge binding only if they can join 300 other folks who are engaged in the same effort.
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I'm agin' it.
I thought we were not going to count members and get on this "body count" kick that FSP is on. Let folks move quietly, we don't need to enumerate them. We don't want a "census". We don't need to know. We certainly don't need to get our nose in the air with the later immigrants.
Just my opinion.
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I think it's a good point. In New Hampshire, we say that the biggest recruiting tool we have is The Counter. It seems odd, but when folks see that counter moving up, they sign up. I don't know what it is about the psychology of those things. McDonald's used to do it with those XX billion served, even though there were only X billion people on Earth.
Of course, if we put something up on pledgebank.com , folks who want to promote the benefits of a counter could sign up and put their John Hancock there for all to see. Those wanting to sign up anonymously are able to do so for privacy concerns. Objectors, of course, shouldn't be pressured into putting their name on a counter, though we saw that several times out here.
As far as I'm concerned, no means no, and anyone not wanting to promote a "running counter" approach shouldn't be asked twice. Just my two cents.
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quote:
and do we have members who are not on the forum... IE paper submissions?
Yes, I know several people who were on the forum, came to WY because of the forum and FSW, and no longer participate. They used it as a tool (a good one) to get here, and now are living the life they wanted and no longer have the time or interest in continuing to chat about it! But they are still the same folks they were when they came.
Mac
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when folks see that counter moving up, they sign up. I don't know what it is about the psychology of those things.
I do. It's one of the things I'm moving to Wyoming to get away from.
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We are talking about a very small # of pro liberty folks not the statists from CO. or elsewhere.
The whole point of the FSW was to attract such folks.
Rich
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from Mac:
Yes, I know several people who were on the forum, came to WY because of the forum and FSW, and no longer participate. They used it as a tool (a good one) to get here, and now are living the life they wanted and no longer have the time or interest in continuing to chat about it! But they are still the same folks they were when they came.
Very true, and I've noticed the same thing.
And Paul's comment about not having/wanting a counter touches a chord with me.
Also, I certainly don't want any division between FSWers from when they signed or moved.
The only way I'd see The 300 working for all, is that being counted in it is up to the FSWer.
However, since many FSWers probably wouldn't want to be included, it would dilute the
power of the odometer. Hmmmm. Maybe this just won't work for us?
Boston
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Also, I certainly don't want any division between FSWers from when they signed or moved.
My earlier thoughts on patches and the like were about honoring the first 300 as prime movers who did the most to get the ball rolling, and secondarily to use that to encourage others to come early and be part of that. I think it can be done without causing divisions, but I see where your worry comes from. The more I roll this around in my head, the more out of tune with FSW values it starts to look. I love the symbolism of 300, but my last comment to maxx crystallized those doubts for me, as did Paul's pointed use of the word "census".
And, in the end, we all know who deserves the honors for being prime movers without having to be told.
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Count me out of any census, lists or special status. Divisions are already present among us. Sure don't need such an artificial reason for more.
We're all just folks here and need to keep it that way.
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I'm really starting to like the idea of 300 pins being created, followed by the die being broken. As one of New Hampshire's first 50 movers, I would gladly pay for a silver pin made for the first members of this effort. Would there be an artificial division? Perhaps, but since it's something like the first 300 movers to both move and voluntarily buy a pin (to help support the Wyoming movement) I don't see any problem with it. It's strictly voluntary and allows the individual to make a statement to others, that they are committed enough to the cause of liberty to throw their entire life into the back of truck and move to The Western Frontier at the drop of a hat, with no hesitation.
You folks who are on this forum, who are reading this from a computer in the western free state, I view as every bit as committed to the cause of liberty as anyone in New Hampshire. I have the utmost respect for every single one of you, and would gladly pin any one of you with a badge announcing to the public your undying commitment to the ideals of the American Revolution. You folks are as deserving as anyone who has packed up and moved to ANY free state.
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With promotion to get people here, I see an conflict between "shouting from the rooftops" and maintaining privacy.
One reason the New Hampshire people have the numbers they do is because of their "out, loud and proud" social networking TRUMPETING of their mission, their events, their faces, their personalities, their arrests, photos of them on their front porches, etc. They have a radio show, podcasts, a full-time almost-daily video blog on YouTube, and I think they even take out print and radio ads in other states. But I think the main thing is their willingness to "put their faces out there."
However, if anyone whipped out a video camera at Wyoming events or get-togethers, some people would step out of the frame, and others would probably say "turn that off!"
I don't know that you can have it both ways. (And I know....this is coming from a recluse who loves to put himself out there on the Internet.)
Just a thought.
I think that having people have to sign up to use the forum lowers the Wyoming numbers too. It's not like it's protecting any information, anyone can make a sockpuppet, and even pledge, to get full views of all users' info (Hell, I moved to Wyoming, and I still can't view my friends' profiles on here!). But having to sign up just to read stuff, and (having to pledge to edit your own typos) comes off as a little off-putting to newcommers. Might be time to take a look at that policy, if more movers really is a goal.
I liked Paul's comment about "no census" too. Though I knew he'd say that. Seriously. I can always know that no matter what the topic, Paul and MamaLiberty will pipe in to take any "government" out of it. Always.
And I like that about them, even being a minarchist myself.
MWD
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He he he... Paul USED to be a minarchist too...
One minarchist at a time... >:D
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"Smart Democrats become Republicans.
Smart Republicans become libertarians.
Smart libertarians become minarchists.
Smart minarchists become anarchists.
Smart anarchists become Paul and Mama."
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Honestly, I think that the liberty pin is probably better for Wyoming folk than the pledgebank.com proposal. Folks could sign up there anonymously, but a pin could both raise funds for fundamentalsoffreedom.com and allow folks to show their pride in being one of The 300. That would be even more anonymous because the seller could simply say, "We have just 123 pins left," and folks would know the meaning of that. There's no name attached to the pin, and you can even trade silver coin for a silver "300" pin. Who has to know the meaning of this? No one but the wearer.
This may be good for the New Hampshire effort, too. I might bring this idea up with folks, here.
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Max, you begin to sound like a politician. ::) One of the obvious options is not to DO anything at all about pins and membership numbers, etc. That's what I'm going to do. YMMV
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Well as a newbie here in the Peoples Republic of Michigan, I know this..
I yearn to wake up and breath the free air, far away from the domestic squables of the Republicrats, the UAW, the new taxes Granholm wants to shove down our throats, the bla bla bla. It doesn't seem to me if the number is 300, 3000, or 300,000. Critical mass is.
The important point is - what is required to achieve critical mass.
True story. How did I learn about your org? THE NATIONAL REVIEW? WEEKLY STANDARD? TALK RADIO: MIKE CHURCH, ANDREW WILKOW, ET AL?
Nope.
After growing absolutely sick and tired of the ongoing national debate, all of which only validates the fed usurpation of power (i.e. if we debate over how much you can screw me, we've already validated that you CAN screw me), I had this brilliant idea. Move to a state with a population small enough, freedom loving enough, that it wouldn't take that many like mind people to get off the runaway bus and make a real change. And that's how I found this org. And it's people like that we need for critical mass
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I was looking to move somewhere less "california" than California for years. I had done all the number crunching and research I could, and narrowed it down to five states, one of them Wyoming.
Then I bought the book "You and the police", read it in one sitting. Got to the last page, saw the URL for this site, logged on, and nine months later my wife and I were living in Wyoming!
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Welcome and I see that we think alike!
Fantastic! Glad to have you aboard.
Rich
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So, back to promotional ideas, FSW NH is doing a fundraiser toward getting more people there:
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=19130.msg227803#msg227803
On October 1, the Free State Project aims to raise $20,000. The funds raised will directly support the Free State Project's public outreach to achieve its goal of 20,000 participants. We're nearly half-way to the goal, folks--and I'm crossing my fingers for 10,000 before the end of 2009! Every dollar helps spread the Free State Project's message--that's how many new participants find us. So we're asking for everyone's support to spread that awareness.
We're very excited about the coming year, and we'd like to recognize the generosity of donors: they make the Free State Project possible. Therefore, during this event, for a generous donation of $100 (and for every hundred thereafter), the donor will receive a 1 oz. FSP silver round as a token of the FSP's sincere appreciation. Minted in .999 silver, it's a great piece that truly embodies what the Free State Project is all about. (And no, you cannot buy them separately!)
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Yes! Welcome dr1best!
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Been there. Done that. ;D
Boston had some FSW coins minted a few years back. They sold out a long time ago. Bought a few for myself and was given a beautiful, polished mint-condition one by Boston.
So, back to promotional ideas, FSW NH is doing a fundraiser toward getting more people there:
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=19130.msg227803#msg227803
On October 1, the Free State Project aims to raise $20,000. The funds raised will directly support the Free State Project's public outreach to achieve its goal of 20,000 participants. We're nearly half-way to the goal, folks--and I'm crossing my fingers for 10,000 before the end of 2009! Every dollar helps spread the Free State Project's message--that's how many new participants find us. So we're asking for everyone's support to spread that awareness.
We're very excited about the coming year, and we'd like to recognize the generosity of donors: they make the Free State Project possible. Therefore, during this event, for a generous donation of $100 (and for every hundred thereafter), the donor will receive a 1 oz. FSP silver round as a token of the FSP's sincere appreciation. Minted in .999 silver, it's a great piece that truly embodies what the Free State Project is all about. (And no, you cannot buy them separately!)
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I think that having people have to sign up to use the forum lowers the Wyoming numbers too. It's not like it's protecting any information, anyone can make a sockpuppet, and even pledge, to get full views of all users' info (Hell, I moved to Wyoming, and I still can't view my friends' profiles on here!). But having to sign up just to read stuff, and (having to pledge to edit your own typos) comes off as a little off-putting to newcommers. Might be time to take a look at that policy, if more movers really is a goal.
MWD, I see your point, but, as you describe, if it's that easy to sign up with ulterior motives,
then it's just as easy to sign up if somebody's for real.
What little formality to forum registration that remains, I like.
Boston
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Do we really need a body count? Some can make the move easier than others. I cannot physically move there till spring/summer 2010. Any Ideas of a good town that would welcome a self-employed gunsmith? Hot Springs County appeals to me. I was born on a state bordering eastern Wyoming and would like to move further west then Crook,Weston, Niobrara, Goshen
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Welcome! No we don't need a body count... Just Critical Mass! Don't really care how we get there, just
so we do...
Love to have you in Weston, but go where your heart tells you is right...
Look around, drive around, find a home.
Glad to have you anywhere in Wyoming!
Rich
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Sometimes, when we give birth to a new child, we think of it as are own. We want to hold on, sometimes too tightly, for fear it my not become what we had in mind for it to be. But the child grows into it's own, becomes what it will. Hopefully shaped by our ideals, not bound by them.
It's a honor to see the child grow, the seed is planted, roots bound to the same soil.
And what the child becomes. What glory.
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There are many folks out there for whom the decision to move depends on some assuring that they are joining a large and growing group. FSP New Hampshire has had media, ads, outreach, and "The Counter." Despite my conviction that Wyoming was a better choice (too bad I moved to New Hampshire right off the bat, not knowing much about the western alliance) and that it would bring in more people, there has been nearly constant high profile outreach in New Hampshire (and media attention) for six years, resulting in hundreds of new movers and about 1500 locals who have joined up.
We have found that these are effective tools for getting new people in, and I believe that the New Hampshire project has already passed critical mass. I.e., it would continue to grow and succeed even if the earliest movers dropped out or moved on. To the contrary, the early movers are actually getting more active at recruiting even more folks. The rate of growth has actually increased, and this is driving even more interest in the project, causing the whole thing to snowball.
There are also solid arguments for not wanting to have "a census," but the Wyoming effort not only gives up people who would move because of a counter, but all of the folks that they would talk to and recruit. I'm not sure which choice is better for Wyoming, but the worst thing, IMO, would be to have half the folks set up some kind of counter or pledgebank effort, while the other half refuse to sign up on principle, thereby giving the world the false impression that the movement is half its size. The best solution, in my opinion, is to try to build some kind of consensus around a strategy (or a few), and to get as many people as possible behind that recruiting effort.
Up to you, but that's how we do things back east. BTW, I'm currently back in the Seattle area, and it is definitely easier recruiting for Wyoming than New Hampshire out here.
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There are many folks out there for whom the decision to move depends on some assuring that they are joining a large and growing group.
I think you just made an insightful point here. It seems that these people feel the need for some kind of social contract. As you say, they won't do it alone. To me, it almost sounds as if they are city people. To be fair, they are freedom-loving people also.
... but the Wyoming effort not only gives up people who would move because of a counter,
If someone needs a counter or a social contract before he or she does "the right thing", it does not seem to me that this person really has strong convictions about anything.
...but the worst thing, IMO, would be to have half the folks set up some kind of counter or pledgebank effort, while the other half refuse to sign up on principle,
I will certainly not sign up on some pledge tracking web site. I suspect that the FSP movers resonate well with all the organization and social networking of the FSP. But it does not resonate with me.
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If someone needs a counter or a social contract before he or she does "the right thing", it does not seem to me that this person really has strong convictions about anything.
I second that. Strongly.
For what it's worth, I spend a lot of time on the New Hampshire site, probably as much as I spend here.
They have a lot of good stuff happening, but also have more problems, more arguing (in person too, not just online, from what they discuss online) than FSW seems to, and I think it's because of the numbers.
Growth comes with its own set of issues.
Just something to consider.
MWD
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Hmmmmmm.... What would an event like Burning Man or the Tenth Amendment march on 9/12 be if you didn't know that others would be there? Maybe that's a bad example, but quite a few folks looked at both Wyoming and New Hampshire and actually came out east with the false belief that "no one" (or very few) were in Wyoming. Unfortunately, some couldn't or wouldn't come out to New Hampshire, and so dropped out and ended up getting involved with other things.
I would rather folks move to one of the two big states--or at least got involved with a free county project somewhere. Our biggest pool of prospective movers are folks who seem to have lost faith in the liberty movement. Honestly, how many American patriots would have signed up to fight the American Revolution if they thought that only a handful of folks were getting involved. Those who risked their lives for independence were not less committed to liberty because they were waiting for a real effort with a real chance to fight against British tyranny. Larger numbers attract more people, while those new people help recruit others. Most people who've heard of the western effort continue to operate under the belief that just a tiny handful of people are out in Wyoming, and I have no proof whatsoever to dissuade them from that notion.
This is all I have to say on the matter.
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Well Max,
I guess I don't know what to say other than the fact That I can with near certainty
say we have AT Least 100 Movers, many if not most, I can name off the top of my head.
And more on the way. Not to mention the # of earlier mover /Natives here.
And if they they are serious enough to consider moving, have them come to the Freedom Expo
in June, and see and talk to us themselves.
I don't have any other traction on the other methods at the moment.
Rich
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There are many folks out there for whom the decision to move depends on some assuring that they are joining a large and growing group.
I think you just made an insightful point here. It seems that these people feel the need for some kind of social contract. As you say, they won't do it alone. To me, it almost sounds as if they are city people. To be fair, they are freedom-loving people also.
As I said before, the core orientation behind that is one of the things I'm looking to get away from. I'm not saying that anyone for whom that is a consideration is a worthless sheep, but as a general rule, it indicates, as rhodges said, at least a weak commitment if it is the primary consideration. I do want there to be a strong social underpinning that I can both count on and contribute to, but I've thought long and hard about whether I would move there even if I didn't know anyone, had never heard of the FSW (or if it disappeared one day), and I think I still would. The FSW makes it easier and more appealing, and adds another dimension of purpose, but it is not a make-or-break issue.
Maxx, you have to understand, the Wyoming effort places a lot less emphasis on numbers than NH does. It's not unimportant, but neither is it the singular overriding factor. The reason Wyoming was chosen - at least the reason I chose it - is that it is already to a large extent the kind of place I want to be. It can be better, but that betterment doesn't rely on only sheer numbers in the same way NH does. In NH, my sense of it is that the social aspects are an outgrowth of the numbers game, important, but secondary. In WY, I think it is just the opposite, the numbers game is built on the social underpinning. As a result, indiscriminate number building is not nearly so helpful, and might actually hamper success.
That's not to say that the FSW has some secret handshake and vetting process that seeks to actively keep people out, it's just that Wyoming is the kind of place that self-selects for a certain kind of person, and the FSW works with that rather than trying to push back against it.
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Kylben, Then WHY do we even Have a forum and WHAT IS our mission Purpose HERE?
Not YOURS, But the FSW as a whole.
If I am not mistaken it IS to encourage freedom loving folks to move here and help provide
a bulwark against statist CO,CA,etc...Movers... to help prevent what has happened elsewhere.
Such as CO. and to some extent MT.
And you Know I came BEFORE The FSW or The FSP for that matter.
WHY is it so hard for you to want to Promote or would you just like to wait till its too late.
Whether you like it or not the BS is coming here, hell of lot easier to stop it now then TRY
to Reverse it after the fact, and we need help to do so.
"What is the goal of Free State Wyoming?
To encourage, assist, and reward the migration of liberty-minded Americans to Wyoming in order to maintain and further its relative laissez-faire Western culture; to eventually enjoy a haven for those Americans who desire not to live as, or under, government supremacists."
It appears your posistion is out of sync. with the stated mission goals.
Maybe I'm wrong here but, demonstrating that this IS a viable movement furthers the cause and NO
it's not just a #s game but it is supposed to be a movement, and there has been some success here.
That does help people Justify the heavy commitment of moving.
You don't promote growth by going SHHHH. Quiet.... were moving to Wyoming, keep it under your hat...
Rich
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It appears your posistion is out of sync. with the stated mission goals.
I also remember something in the mission goals about, and I'm paraphrasing from memory, encouraging people of "good moral character" to move to Wyoming. There's nothing wrong about wanting to smoke a doobie in downtown Keene at a 420 rally (and I'd probably join them if I was there, even though I haven't 'partaken' for probably twenty years now), but do you think that wanting to do so automatically means someone is of "good moral character"? I'm trying to get across to maxx what I see as the difference in approach in the idea of numbers in and of themselves between Wyoming and NH. I didn't mean to give the impression that I spoke for you or for the FSW, and I'm sorry if I was too sloppy in my wording and left that impression.
Numbers are important, and I'm not afraid to promote Wyoming. I've talked to a lot of people about it, both in person and online. I'm anything but quiet about it. I can't reach the numbers that maybe you do, or that Boston and others do, but I do talk it up to people. But I also realize that the majority of those people will never take it seriously. Those looking for a quick fix won't be interested in Wyoming. Those looking to maintain their accustomed lifestyle would never consider Wyoming. Those who aren't really committed to liberty beyond one or two pet issues won't be interested in Wyoming. I'm OK with that. I don't discourage them, or try to exclude them, but I realize it is usually just a fantasy they might indulge for a few minutes before moving on to more "practical" things they have to worry about.
I'm also up front about Wyoming's "relative laissez-faire Western culture" and what that might mean to somebody who is considering moving. I have to admit, it is somewhat foreign to me, too, but I am willing and eager to adapt myself to it rather than try and adapt Wyoming to my lifestyle. Again, I don't try to use that to discourage people, I talk up the positive aspects of it, but it's a culture that's not for everybody. The last thing I want is to convince somebody to move there and have them either hate it, (and by extension distrust both me and any freedom movement they might encounter in the future), or worse, accelerate the BS that we all know is coming Wyoming's way by being unable to leave it back where they came from.
I don't know how out of sync I am with the mission goals, as I am not privy to the planning that you and others have worked so hard at. I am certainly not trying to undermine it by keeping people out of Wyoming. I'm just trying to get maxx, and others to see that in Wyoming it is a far deeper thing than simply numbers. Much of what he suggests is useful, but also some of it tends towards looking at numbers to the exclusion of the rest of it. The pledge registry is going over like a lead balloon, not surprisingly. But there are aspects of the idea that could be useful and productive if we can tease them out. To the extent I have any goals in this area, or think I might have any influence, it would be to try to figure out how to adapt some of the ideas used in NH to the different needs of a Wyoming movement. It is not to discourage or ignore the issues of numbers, but to find ways to pursue numbers that are in keeping with a laissez-faire and individualist western culture as opposed to a more group oriented eastern culture. If maxx and other FSP'ers understood the difference, they might be more able to help us figure out how to adapt the methods that have worked for them.
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I accept that, and if I came across as being harsh I apologize.
How ever we do need Some % to help stem the statist movements afoot even now.
I see nothing wrong with some statement of some official # of members in Wyoming
even if vague.
Even so simple as come join well over xxx members in Wyoming with many more on the way.
If nothing else to let folks know that this IS a Viable movement and not *Just* "internet chatter"
with no actual results...
Would that not be acceptable to most here?
Just to say yes it is real and not just a forum board.
Rich
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In New Hampshire, we just say let those who want to sign up sign up. If they want to sign up anonymously, so be it. If some folks don't want to be counted, then that's fine, and it's not our place to tell them so.
I've worked very hard getting the word out about these two state efforts. The problem, on the west coast, is that New Hampshire may as well be Antartica, and that Wyoming is largely believed to be an unsuccessful movement of perhaps a dozen or so individuals, with no growth or activity out there. I know plenty of people who are just as committed to liberty who are as likely to move to Alaska, Montana, Idaho, rural Nevada--or even leave the country. Because someone moves overseas in pursuit of freedom (not realizing that there is a robust movement in Wyoming and New Hampshire), does that mean that their commitment to freedom is any less? Believing there to be no credible migration alternatives, many continue to pursue local activism and educational efforts. Does this mean that they are less committed to liberty? If many folks feel that the whole effort is hopeless, does that mean that they could never join a growing, vibrant movement and become a superactivist themselves?
In New Hampshire, many people even migrate to other towns that appear to have an established based of freestaters, already. Seeing the numbers of movers in various towns, folks get excited and decide to channel their efforts into a move--something that they would not have if they thought that they'd arrive alone. "The Counter" is New Hampshire's biggest recruiting tool, and some of our best activists were despondent folks who said that, when they saw that counter going up every other day, they just got too excited, dropped everything, and moved out. If they would not move out and join what they now believe is a "dead movement," but will pack up everything and come out west when they see how much is going on in Wyoming, are they not an addition to the effort? If many are already busting their butts in their home state for freedom, are they unimportant to the liberty effort?
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Let's face it, most people are followers, even freedom-loving people. Some people will not make the move unless they see some growth in the numbers who have moved or committed to move to wyoming. They need to see it or believe it. How is that done?
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I guess what I understand some to be saying is this:
If thousands of potential movers won't move if they believe that Wyoming is a "dead movement,"
then that means:
they wouldn't do much if they got to Wyoming, at all
OR
their commitment to liberty is less than overwhelming AND they will not spread the word or do recruiting themselves.
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I accept that, and if I came across as being harsh I apologize.
Nah, my skin ain't that thin. Better to hash it out than to let it fester, and it boils down to that I think we're on the same page, just looking at it from different angles. I have no problem with advertising what's going on here.
As to the forum board, I see it as a lot more than just arguing. Maybe you're not seeing it from my perspective as a relative outsider, but the practical benefit of this board to me is enormous. I don't comment on a lot of the praxis posts, but I read them. I can feel that rural western culture sinking into my bones, and I know what kind of adjustments I'm going to face in moving, thanks to what I've read here. It's allowed me to start preparing even now, while I m still in financial exile, for when I finally am free to move. I couldn't do that without all you guys. And don't underestimate the value of just being able to talk to people who are there on the ground, get to know them, argue with them, even bitch and moan once in a while. It's the next best thing to being there for those of us who can't do it face to face except one week every other year or so.
@maxx: I know plenty of people who are just as committed to liberty who are as likely to move to Alaska, Montana, Idaho, rural Nevada--or even leave the country.
People who are committed to moving are a different story. You mentioned earlier people who want to hop across the border to Vegas as a desperate escape from Kali, but people who are committed to moving to a place where they can have freedom rather than simply running away from a place where they don't are certainly people that should consider Wyoming, and who would be a boon to the movement.
So, how do we reach them, not the refugees, but the pro-active movers?
But maxx, do you understand the differences between the two movements? Maybe I don't have a complete picture of even the Wyoming movement, but there are clearly differences. Your input here has been valuable, but the stuff that NH is doing is not always going to be able to be transferred whole to Wyoming. A 420 rally in Casper would most likely be a terrible idea (don't know about Cheyenne, might work in Laramie). I know, I harp on that one, and I'm probably guilty of stereotyping NH to some extent, but to me it's a glaring example of something that is working great there that would not in WY.
You've seemed to be seeking a role here as an unofficial liaison between the two movements, and I for one appreciate it, even if we butt heads a little. But to do that, you have to understand both, and I get the feeling you don't really understand Wyoming yet. If you could do that, you could possibly make a real difference and help Wyoming build up its numbers - in a Wyoming-compatible way. And you could help us here in Wyoming understand NH better. There's a lot of things that will not copy from one movement to the other, but many of those differences could also be highly complimentary.
By the way, I almost forgot, but I own www.wyomingfreepress.com. I can't commit any time to doing anything with it for now, other than some very occasional writing (and I bet I can talk Sally into doing some graphics, like what is up there now) but I'll cover the registration and basic hosting if anyone wants to put in the setup and management. It might be something we can use towards that advertising effort.
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I haven't really spoke up that much in this discussion, but I personally like the idea of a counter. It would help generate momentum and encourage and excite others to move. I personally didn't need it to move out here, but I think it could be a decent recruiting tool. If a person doesn't want their name listed, fine. But I like the idea for those that are willing, I would certainly be willing to let my name be put on a "roll". I understand the exposure and loss of privacy that this might mean for me, but it would be a worthwhile sacrifice if it helped rally other liberty minded people to the cause.
The fact is that we NEED more liberty minded people to help make a bigger difference. To stick our noses in the air and say that we don't want the help of someone who isn't self-motivated enough in our minds is pretentious and ridiculous.
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How about an anonymous counter ala Ebay? You know, this auction viewed 300 times, etc. Our FSW couter would reflect the number who have actually moved without listing names.
Rich, we could still have a medallion of some sort, I liked that idea when you mentioned it at the beginning of this thread. Any who rate within the first 300 who DON'T want the publicity of a census could pass the honor on to the next available freedom minded immigrant.
Yes?
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Hmmmm... I guess I don't really see their view as pretentious... so much as concerned with privacy, in part. For that--and those not wanting to be part of a "census," I suggested setting up "The 300" at pledgebank.com. Some would put their JOHN HANCOCK there, some would add comments, some would sign up anonymously, while others would not sign for issues they've mentioned here. It's a free movement, and things must be achieved voluntarily and without pressure. The 300 could be attempted as a pilot project of sorts--something where some of the folks involved in Wyoming try to get their own snowball going. Those not wanting to be part of that pledge, "I will become a liberty activist in Wyoming by December 31st, 20XX, but only if 299 others do the same," could just allow the effort to operate on its own, just as the First 1,000 and Next 1,000 have operated independently of the Free State Project group.
I really enjoy talking up Wyoming, and I don't mind taking flack on the New Hampshire fora for promoting the thing. For wyomingfreepress.com, I would recommend getting future movers and potential movers involved. There's a lot of potential for the "smallest" state in the nation to pull in thousands of new folks. If the whole thing operates as a dozen independent projects (like New Hampshire), then some of those projects will grow to become big successes and pull in even more new liberty folks. Superactivists and recruiters may help bring in farmers, ranchers, alternative energy folks, investors, and new business owners who help make your part of the state more livable and more interesting. In my opinion, more is usually better.
For that Nevada bit (should go into a separate thread, but too late now) most of the "refugees" are either Lake Tahoe/Reno bound or are making their way out to rural Nevada, which offers more personal freedom than any other part of the country. If the Nevada activists could just convert some of the refugees into activists and recruiters, that state would take off in a heartbeat.
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How about an anonymous counter ala Ebay? You know, this auction viewed 300 times, etc. Our FSW couter would reflect the number who have actually moved without listing names.
I counted 93 pledges on the SofI thread. Of course, those are not all movers, and I'm not going to go cross-reference them with posts to try and divine a number of actual movers from it (not only too much work, but I think too intrusive as well), but at least it is a concrete number.
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I really enjoy talking up Wyoming, and I don't mind taking flack on the New Hampshire fora for promoting the thing.
You're taking flak for it? Really? How odd.
I'm sorry, but that just reinforces my impression of them as having collectivist tendencies. If they chase you out for being apostate, you can always move to Wyoming.
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Wow! Believe me, I had thought of that. Of course, now that I have a house in Seabrook, it's a bit too tough to sell and head out that way.
Check out the 56 page "second state project" thread I started back in 2006--dragged on for three years because people kept bringing it up. I wanted a second state endorsed by a vote of the membership (probably Wyoming), so that there would be support for an alternate state. On this forum, it was a slam dunk, but for the FSP Board, it was viewed as a threat, and there were some really angry replies and PM's, even some angry personal comments at meet ups.
There's no question that this forum is just more civil, and it's the reason I set up jeffersonforum.net. Many people want to do something, not just sit there and argue semantics.
If some folks here want to go off and start The 300 effort at pledgebank.com, then I will help in every way I can. If folks here want to help make wyomingfreepress.com a successful media venture, then I'll help out myself. If someone here will agree to serve as Moderator of the Wyoming Board at jeffersonforum.net, I'll put you in as soon as you sign up. I'd like to help the liberty movement in any way that I can.
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A couple more comments.
Just because I was against the concept of a counter, does not mean someone else can't run with it. Any and all efforts to get this movement going are appreciated. I don't think FSW per se will be supporting a counter or recognition of 300 movers or whatever, though... (could be wrong about that).
Personally, I have tapered off a bit on emphasizing movers, because I think a pretty high percentage of people already in Wyoming are basically pro-freedom. They also fit in better. They just need a focus for their efforts, some organization to get them going. Could be FSW, or Wyoming Liberty Group, or WSSA. Movers help, but it is not a failure if not so many move, because freedom is not dependent only on them.
BTW, I don't see how this can be considered a dead movement, and I'm amazed it is even an issue. I suppose that's just jealousy between groups, more than anything. Some idea of folks already in Wyoming can be found by looking under each member's name when they post, where it says "in Wyoming".
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A couple more comments.
BTW, I don't see how this can be considered a dead movement, and I'm amazed it is even an issue. I suppose that's just jealousy between groups, more than anything. Some idea of folks already in Wyoming can be found by looking under each member's name when they post, where it says "in Wyoming".
Paul log in as a guest you only see a few boards, then sign up you see more boards yes but you can't access
the member lists to scroll down, many folks don't show up but intermitantly if at all so you really don't get a picture
of how many there really is, it does look like a dozen or so when limited until they sign the SOFI...
So I am going to put up generic post in the welcome section, then you look and see if I crossed any lines till we get something else going.
Rich
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I begin with two thoughts on this matter, thoughts we all know, yet for many have lost their power.
1)We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men.
It still gives me chills to feel the power contained in these simple words. Governments are instituted among MEN to secure these rights, not debase them.
2)It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Has liberty become so cheap we will gladly trade the last of it for a hot tub, two car garage, 401k, and a starbucks.
It seems we are at an opportune time, a fork in the road of human events. If we dither now the opportunity will pass. The question is what must we do now, this time, to secure our liberty?
Many,many people have these same convictions, they(like I was) are unaware of this org.
How do we get them on board, because the success of this enterprise is UP TO THEM.
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How do we get them on board, because the success of this enterprise is UP TO THEM.
That would depend entirely upon what the measure of success is.............
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Well if there is no measure of success, there is no measure for failure. No purpose, no mission statement, no reason to be.
So I ask, what was the purpose, the mission statement on 7-4-1776. If the measure of success of this enterprise can't be so clearly stated, so like in concept, then there is no measure of success. Eighty seven people living in the hills with guns and generators isn't a measure of success.
For a yardstick, read the Declaration of Independence, see how we measure up.
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I Agree, That now is the time for all good men to come together...
Later, at this point may very well be too late...
Too many are far too concerned with pontificating on some utopian dream of their version of
the perfect society, yet we haven't so much as done a single iota on removing the current yoke.
And it's getting damned tight!
But OH NO! WE don't need no stinking help from others, Right...
Rich
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Thanks Rich, now is the time for all good MEN to come to the aid of their country. Some times I want to scream WAKE UP AMERICA, but it would fall on deaf ears. At least some of us can see the truth. Thank God for that.
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Later, at this point may very well be too late...
Too many are far too concerned with pontificating on some utopian dream of their version of
the perfect society, yet we haven't so much as done a single iota on removing the current yoke.
Don't assume that because some efforts are invisible to you, or have not yet manifested outwardly tangible results, that they do not exist.
There are many yokes to be removed before the government yoke is even accessible. Too late it may indeed be, yet things take whatever time they require. In the meantime, pontificating and debate need not be at the expense of other efforts, and have benefits of their own in establishing and reinforcing surety of purpose, moral clarity, and common cause.
The storm will come in its own time, whether I am ready or not. If I am not, it is because I saw it's imminence too late, not because I've failed to engage the work of preparing for it once I did see. A wise man once said "You have to start from where you are". When the storm comes, I will face it with whatever tools I have been able to muster, no more and no less.
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It's more along the lines, We have a near perfect storm of events swirling, millions of good
SOLID people, seriously, maybe for the 1st time, would consider, AND be able to convince
there spouses the NOW is time to move, and get out of X.
People are pushed and we could be actively promoting ourselves as a viable option.
As far as thowing off the yoke or even preventing it's tightning here, can we point to
much of any success, the closest I can think of is protesting the Land Use proposals up
in Crook County. If there are other demonstrable efforts I am not aware of them.
Yet many seem complacent with the org. And then spend their time writing tome like
posts championing extreme measures of anarchy when we don't even have a Toe-hold
neigh.... fingernail hold on any aspect of whats occuring right here. The cart is 50 miles down
the road, and we don't Have a horse, to hitch it to. the most recent example of this:
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=8377.msg71298#msg71298 (http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=8377.msg71298#msg71298)
I could see some merit in the educational value of the posts, yet they do nothing to
promote the org, or it's stated goals for Wyoming, and It frustrates the hell out of me.
If we can't even manage a unified front amongst each other, how do we intend to stop/slow
the statist trends here in wyoming?
It seems to me the mission-creep has crept completely away from the mission.
Rich
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Amen, Rich!
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from Rich:
It's more along the lines, We have a near perfect storm of events swirling, millions of good
SOLID people, seriously, maybe for the 1st time, would consider, AND be able to convince
there spouses the NOW is time to move, and get out of X.
People are pushed and we could be actively promoting ourselves as a viable option.
OK, I'll say it again:
It's not up to the FSW to promote the FSW; it's up to individual FSWers to promote the FSW.
I.e., there will be no FSW advertising budget, money bomb, marketing committee, etc.
Want to see an ad promoting the FSW?
Great, I'll help you design one (if you wish) and you pay the ad cost.
Perfectly democratic: spend your own money your own way.
I described all this at:
FSWers using the FSW name for promotion, some ideas on ads
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=7423.0
It's been read only 80 times.
It's been acted on: never.
Could I have been more of a cheerleader to you all to increase our marketing?
Sure, I guess so, but quite frankly I am out of juice for it.
I don't have the energy (and no longer the time) to bang the FSW drum for you.
As far as thowing off the yoke or even preventing it's tightning here, can we point to
much of any success, the closest I can think of is protesting the Land Use proposals up
in Crook County. If there are other demonstrable efforts I am not aware of them.
Rich, you live in Weston County.
What political action have you been involved in?
the most recent example of this:
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=8377.msg71298#msg71298
I could see some merit in the educational value of the posts, yet they do nothing to
promote the org, or it's stated goals for Wyoming, and It frustrates the hell out of me.
Yes, Rich, I am beginning to agree more with you about that kind of thing.
Hence, read my reply there:
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=8377.msg71386#msg71386
______________
Look, I liked the idea behind The 300!, but the logistics of it were objectionable to some FSWers
and I understood why. The whole thing helped confirm to me the value of our own individual
promotion/marketing of the FSW, vs. trying to arrive at some stickery committee agreement.
Really, can some frustrated FSWer place the first such ad? Be a trailblazer?
We need a pioneer willing to spend their own dough, and say so in the ad.
That would be promotion!
Boston
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I will commit 75 ounces of Sterling Silver and 1.65 ounces Dental Gold for highlights + 1000.00 FRN
to the creation of a pin to honor the 1st 300 FULL FSW Members in Wyoming.
and will use the proceeds to advertise the movement until such time as the # has doubled.
Rich
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Rich, you live in Weston County.
What political action have you been involved in?
Actually Quite abit, Having determined that I have too many liabilities for the office.
I have found a willing candidate that I can support ,and last november we collected
over 100 of the last presidential campaigns LARGE Poly signs we are going re use
after a repaint for said election.
and a few other things I'll keep you in the dark about...for now...
Rich
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Rich, thanks for your generous gold/silver/cash offer to help promote the FSW!
I'm unsure how it will work, however, if too many FSWers don't wish to
be officially counted (which seemed the spoiler to any formal The 300! plan).
Also, your "will use the proceeds to advertise the movement" confuses me.
Proceeds from what? Profits made on selling the pin? Please clarify there.
Since you're ponying up about $2750 by my reckoning, and wish to increase
FSW numbers, wouldn't some spot ads go further? Just trying to help you
get the most bang for your buck. How you spend it is certainly your call.
Glad to learn of your local political activism for a worthy candidate.
Please keep us informed as you can. Thanks again for what you do.
~W~
Boston
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No Boston, I will spend every cent on various ads, the Whole thing.
Investment and profits. just a way of "Value added"
Quite frankly I don't give a care for those who oppose it.
It's a Damn good idea...
I am paying for it and they don't need to buy one.
I see many who got their piece of land and don't care about the next guy or gal.
I DO.
I remember well my desire, and my commitment to WY.
I never have changed.
And Never will.
I Want Freedom In My Lifetime Or Die Trying... Clear Enough????
Rich
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OK, understood.
Your money; your plan on how to spend it.
Again, thanks for funding something beneficial to us all.
Boston
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I will buy one of those pins Rich, and gladly help you get this thing up off the ground. I will send you a PM soon...I firmly believe you are right in everything you have said in this thread, we need to get busy!
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I'm not clear on your plan, but if you are planning to sell the pins to raise cash for ads and the like, I'll "sponsor" one of the 300 by buying a pin for him/her, say, the next mover after you have them ready (or more than one, depending on price). And if it turns out I later end up in the first 300 (I actually hope not, I hope it has already hit it, or will sooner than I can get there), I'll buy one for myself and Sally. If we're #300 and 301, we'll have to arm-wrestle for it ;D
I like this plan (if I'm understanding it correctly), and thank you, Rich, for the generous offer. I'll do what I can to pitch in on helping you make some proceeds from it.
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Rich, thanks for your generous gold/silver/cash offer to help promote the FSW!
I'm unsure how it will work, however, if too many FSWers don't wish to
be officially counted (which seemed the spoiler to any formal The 300! plan).
Also, your "will use the proceeds to advertise the movement" confuses me.
Proceeds from what? Profits made on selling the pin? Please clarify there.
Since you're ponying up about $2750 by my reckoning, and wish to increase
FSW numbers, wouldn't some spot ads go further? Just trying to help you
get the most bang for your buck. How you spend it is certainly your call.
Glad to learn of your local political activism for a worthy candidate.
Please keep us informed as you can. Thanks again for what you do.
~W~
Boston
Well heres the deal. the Gold comes from a bag of gold crowns I got from my Name-sake,
Dr. Richard Frank DDS.
The Silver comes from a box of broken silver chains (sterling) I got from Fred McAty who was a very old
jeweler whom retired Many years ago and I maybe have a buck an ounce in... I thought
I was going to make bracelets out of when I went though my "I want to be a jewler" phase...
I was 12 years old when I got them and about the same age I got the crowns... So they have done nothing but sit in the box for..... 35 YEARS!!! Sh*t I'm getting OLD!!!!
You know I just might try to make up a couple on my own to see... Lost wax Investment cast...
Here is my design Idea, using the Spartan Shield
(http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af248/WyoRich/spartenshield.jpg)
The size will approximate a Quarter and weigh 1/5 to 1/4 oz.
I will slightly enlarge the flat rim to accomodate printing in the rim
The body will be cast as Sterling Silver, so it will be Silver colored.
The chevron wil be a separate cast piece of Gold. as dental gold has Higher melt point
I place the gold chevron in the mold and cast the silver to it... I think anyway... that may not work
and I'll have to do it another way post casting...
At any rate, the printing at the edges:
The 300!
n L
I o a W
N l b Y
o e'
M !
XXX
This is the best I can represent
given the parameters of the
forum posting>>> The serial # 1-300
goes @ the XXX
Molon Labe'! In the Chevron
I Will have to Make 303 total 1 Founder, One with a 0 (Mine),
and one for my mom....Trust me... I HAVE to Make one for MOM Just work with me on that... MOM GETS ONE!
Well what do you think? Suggestions??? Ideas???
The flat rim could be Gold as well... That's tougher though, unless electro plated.....still a whole
nother step, and I don't want gaudy either... simple and elegant.
or the gold chevron could be plain without the: Molon Labe'! In the Chevron...
ORRRR No printing at all.................HMMMMM or all the print on the Back side....
Or keep the Molon Labe'! In the Chevron and all other in the back side....
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
I'll know better when I have a proto-type...
Rich
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Looks sharp!
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Very nice Rich.
Maybe someday I'll get to Wyoming. 8)
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Rich, you have a great idea. Sign me up . I want one. The Thermopylae reference is brilliant.
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I'm unsure how it will work, however, if too many FSWers don't wish to
be officially counted (which seemed the spoiler to any formal The 300! plan).
Just call it "The First 300 Willing to be Counted". ;)
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This is only my tenth post here, i choose to read the posts and add my two cents when something strikes me. Just a few questions really, What is a movement that does not move forward? I have read molon labe, it was a great read and a really good idea. Even in the book some one was at the head of this movement. Like Boston pointed out, somebody had to take the lead here and move this into the intended direction. Its about numbers. If you dont have them then you cant make a reasonable attempt to change the status quo. Who is at the lead of this movement? Who has the resources needed to take this on? Counting or not, you will never get to the point that everyone seems to want without those numbers. Nobody has said you have to give up your name in a registry, i dont think. Somebody has come up with the idea for this project. It is a very worthy cause, unfortunately we cant all live out our lives in secrecy and have this movement succeed. Like minded individuals need to come together and make this happen. It is worth the risk. I see alot of people post, "Give me liberty, or give me death". Who is it that is among us, actually willing to follow through with those words and do what is neccessary to make it happen. I am not trying to affend anyone. We all have our own ideas about this movement, and in essence we all want the same things. We are just not sure on how to get there. Boston was also right when he said that it is up to us to do our own advertising. I have only been here a short time, and i am telling everyone i know about this. I try to bring up discussions about alot of the things in Molon Labe. Why we have drivers licenses? Public schools? Gun control? just to name a few. People need information and a way to receive it. This forum serves that purpose. I have learned quite a bit about this subject and find myself wanting more information. When it comes right down to it, people are suckers for the truth if they hear it. Maybe a post can be started to examine ways to go about achieveing these next steps. Maybe i have missed it and it has already been done. Not sure on that one. Like I said just my two cents, maybe i am way off. I dont think so but anything is possible. Good luck Rich, I liked the idea, provided you arent requiring someone to give up their privacy to get their coin.
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Thank-you for your post Blaine.
I think of the forum in this way:
It to me is akin to a FSW booth at say a county fair, or pick your venue...
A place where we can meet and talk to folks about us and about the FSW.
The public side of things should IMO, be welcoming and informative to folks.
No matter who hires them or how they are paid we still need people to fix roads, plow snow,
record deeds and titles, adjudicate disputes, and even arrest and detain people with evil deed or intent.
There's a huge list that no matter HOW it's done or paid or authorized, still has to be DONE.
We have private areas on the forum ( Accessible by all FSW Members (Founding, and since 21 Oct 2007) and Associates) that anyone with little effort any can access, where if we feel the need to...
we can metaphorically snatch each other bald over HOW we get it done in the future...
But right now we have what we have, and that pothole still needs to be filled...
And arguing with the pothole filler who stops by the booth, and telling him or her that they are
immoral thieves for filling the pothole on a govt dime does nothing to bring them on board to actually
help change the status quo!
And another thing... while I'm on this rant... Our booth sign out front (Website)looks old, faded cracked
and abandoned and it is.
Why don't one of you gee-wizz bang computer geeks take a break from posting thesis after thesis
in advanced graduate level studies on why our pot hole filler is an immoral bottom feeding thief...
And design us a coolass website to welcome our new folks to the forum!!!
Don't ask, JUST DO IT and show it to Boston when it's done!
Need an Idea? Go here and check out the opening page:
http://www.dirttime.com/ (http://www.dirttime.com/)
and come up with a cool opening line that scrolls out Like....WYOMING...Your Freedom Starts Here
And under the forum link Put: 69,278 Posts in 7,648 Topics by 1,642 Members. With over
Three and one half MILLION! 3501166
page views as of Oct 14 2009
bet one of you wizards could come up a way to realtime those #s too
Or at least Update it once a month with the current forum #s to let people know
it's active
Then work on the actual website later....
Meanwhile I have to go work on OUR Range and Camp Ground to get ready for
250 New prospects we can pitch our concept to next spring....
As well as getting our pin made
Jeesh... Do something people!
Rich
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Evening, Rich,
Thank You!
I've been trying to figure out how to say what you just did.
Well put, Sir!
I was under the impression that FSW was about like-minded people moving here to get involved in the political arena to affect change from with in, not each to be our own little island of anarchy in a sea of The Powers That Be.
Yes, it's going to shit! In a hurry. Yes, I think that we will be in Civil War in short order. Do I hope that there is some way around that .... Yes, I do. Are some cops the kind of trash we are trying to get rid of ..... Yes, but not all are cops just to force other's to their will - case in point - the Weston Co boys. A couple of the local cops and sheriff's deputies are great guys and I've told them that if they ever need my help, they have it to what ever limit is required. You don't like 'bad' police? Don't treat the decent ones badly. A lot of them are 'on our side' and don't like, or are afraid, of the 'bad cops', just like we are.
Like Rich said, there is, and always will, be a need for those in authoritative, or enforcement, positions. History has proven this time and again. The trick is to keep the good ones and get rid of the bad ones.
One final thing!
Please!
Will someone do something about the FSW website?
I thought that FSW was inactive for a long time before I found the forum.
O.K. Bye!
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Well here's two cents worth... Much as I hate his politics, I feel like...Thank God for Obama. Sometimes it take a statist of his magnitude to wake people up. Our liberty is on the line here folks, it's time to get busy.
I'm a newbie here, but I'm not a newbie to the Liberty movement. Liberty, that's what it's all about isn't it.
We have an opportunity to do something historic here, right now, and are we going to let this time pass?
Like I said on my first post, 300, 3000, 30000, what we need is critical mass. What does it take to achieve that? What that is, that is what we have to do IF this is going to do ANYTHING. Ads?, better looking website?, what ever it takes?
Folks, we have one hell of allot of potential here, lets do something historic with it.
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from Big Ugly:
I was under the impression that FSW was about like-minded people moving here to get involved in the political arena to affect change from with in, not each to be our own little island of anarchy in a sea of The Powers That Be.
Your impression is generally correct, but please do remember that it is up
to individual FSWers to get into politics as they see fit. The rest
may choose stay out, but at least they can help with good votes.
Even they stay out of the ballot box, they are good neighbors and friends.
Will someone do something about the FSW website?
I thought that FSW was inactive for a long time before I found the forum.
Well, I don't know what "something" means.
If you have news or "Why I Moved To Wyoming" stories to contribute, please do so.
We've a few threads about that. LadyLiberty only needs new content to add.
Meanwhile, the site does clearly point folks to this forum.
Boston
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I had no idea there where so many FSW relocators in WY! I thought too that it was only a few. Not that that dissuaded me from wanting to move...
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I'm unsure how it will work, however, if too many FSWers don't wish to
be officially counted (which seemed the spoiler to any formal The 300! plan).
Just call it "The First 300 Willing to be Counted". ;)
DJ and I are willing to be counted. Even though we didn't think we would be, since we're of the "we don't need no stinkin' pledges" variety.
We're honored to be counted. Count away. It's a census I won't slam the door on.
And if you're counting beasts, we have three. As I'm sure you all know by now. ;-)
MWD
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So.....
What was the out come of this?
Did we make 300?
Did we make 1000?
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So.....
What was the out come of this?
Did we make 300?
Did we make 1000?
No idea... far as I know, nobody was actually counting. And since so many never participated in the forum, I don't know how they could be. :)
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Given that the FSW was to entice freedom lovers to move to Wyoming and change the election outcomes to something more favorable to freedom and traditional values the question would seem to be, has Wyoming in general, or at least some few counties in Wyoming, seen a move that reflects the idea of a free state?
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I don't live in Wyoming, but from reading posts the last couple years I think the answer is no. :(
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I was thinking about this issue today, and why I haven't moved to Wyoming. There are lots of reasons, the number one is money, of course, but the other is that there is no there, there. To me, this forum is like a land filled with mountain lions. Mountain lions are tough and dangerous but I don't want to be a mountain lion. To kill a mountain lion all you need is a pack of dogs and a shotgun. I don't want to spend the rest of my life on a task doomed to failure from the start, so I'm being careful and moving slow.
A dog is not as tough or dangerous as a mountain lion on it's own. It's also not as free. It's part of a pack and works with the pack to accomplish the pack's goals. I know that rubs a lot of people on this site wrong & I get that. It's just that to get what you want usually requires a payment. There is usually a cost. In this case, to accomplish something would require people to set aside their instinct to say no, I'm going my own way, but instead pick an organizer (or group) and follow their lead until you accomplish your goals. (or they get so far from you there is no choice but to cut your ties with them)
Boston has made it clear that this group is not in the leading business. It's just a place to meet and talk.
Not a lot of people are going to leave their home and family, risk wasting years of their life for a good chat. IMHO
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I don't live in Wyoming, but from reading posts the last couple years I think the answer is no. :(
I concur with Steve's assessment. With the exception of a license-free concealed carry law being enacted a couple of years ago, the freedom/liberty/whatever-you-call-it index for Wyoming residents has gotten slowly worse since I moved here in 2005. I didn't move because of FSW, I moved because I wanted to hike the mountains and valleys of the northwest corner of Wyoming. I rented a house north of Jackson and did just that for five years. I bumped into this forum shortly after I'd moved here. And now I live in the southeast corner of Wyoming out in the boonies. Go figure.
My 2 cents is that the whole concept of the Free State Project is a failure, notwithstanding the thousands who have actually moved to NH. It was a good idea, but it's now time for plan B.
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but it's now time for plan B.
So what is your idea for plan "B"?
I just got here, I now live in the central part of the state.
I moved here with a job in place. other than there not being as many stores as where I can from, I am liking it here.
I understand that each of us has to decide what is best for us.
for me it was having a job in place, ready to go to.
I know I did not make the 7 year plan, but I did make it here.
so again, what would be your plan "B"
or has everyone just giving up on Wyoming? nice place, but lets just talk about it and do nothing.
one of the things I did enjoy about the FSW was the Jams. the meeting people, doing things with them.
the friends that were made.
So, my plan "B" would be maybe a mini Jam, maybe 2 or 3 of them at different times of the year, at different location in the state. nothing fancy, just good folks getting together for some good times with each other.
oh just for the record, it was an FSW member that helped me move in to my house, and no one else, no church, or neighbor.
Thank you Marc.
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My 2 cents is that the whole concept of the Free State Project is a failure, notwithstanding the thousands who have actually moved to NH.
So, not even their corporate structure, board members, marketing plan, budget made the difference? But (as you urged of us for years) it would have for the FSW?
The free-state idea is still the best idea out there, but both the FSP and the FSW were apparently too early. Once the Depression (and/or an Orwellian state) is more in everybody's face, then folks will condescend to move elsewhere.
Remember, the first couple of colonizing attempts on the 17th century East Coast didn't take.
Right now, it's rather a lull, I agree.
The FSW will keep its "lights on" and be ready for any significant change of national interest.
I am proud of everyone who became involved!
~W~
Boston
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The FSW will keep its "lights on" and be ready for any significant change of national interest.
I am proud of everyone who became involved!
~W~
Boston[/color]
Yes, please do leave a candle in the window; even if some of us who are there in heart are called to be elsewhere.
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Just found this thread, didn't notice it before for some reason.
There are lots of reasons, the number one is money, of course, but the other is that there is no there, there.
This is a rather strange comment. Money (or jobs), yes, but I would not go along with the rest unless it simply means a low population, which is obvious. But things to do? When I lived there I always had something going on, and it was never boring. And the quality of people there is amazing (outside the politicians).
I pretty much agree with the assessments above. Separation is definitely the way to go, and that is what FSW et. al. was all about, and it will happen when the economy collapses. People move to places that suit them, especially when the place they now live becomes intolerable for them.
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My 2 cents is that the whole concept of the Free State Project is a failure, notwithstanding the thousands who have actually moved to NH.
So, not even their corporate structure, board members, marketing plan, budget made the difference? But (as you urged of us for years) it would have for the FSW?
The free-state idea is still the best idea out there, but both the FSP and the FSW were apparently too early. Once the Depression (and/or an Orwellian state) is more in everybody's face, then folks will condescend to move elsewhere.
Remember, the first couple of colonizing attempts on the 17th century East Coast didn't take.
Right now, it's rather a lull, I agree.
The FSW will keep its "lights on" and be ready for any significant change of national interest.
I am proud of everyone who became involved!
~W~
Boston
Who knows, maybe this election will be the socall straw that breaks the backs?
just glad I am here now.
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Here's a truly "out there" suggestion. The Free City Project! ;D
Carter Lake, Iowa is a small city on the Nebraska side of the Missouri river that's "in" Omaha, right by the airport.
If 1,000 politically united people moved there they could probably, over MANY years with LOTS of work, become an entity like the US Virgin Islands or Guam. But unlike those places it would be filled with people who DON'T want to run your life.
Check Google Maps and Wiki >:D
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there is a number of cities here in Wyoming that you could do this in too.
the biggest challenge will be jobs/work.
what will people do to earn money in the new town?
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what will people do to earn money in the new town?
It would probably be a case of people bringing their own businesses with them.
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what will people do to earn money in the new town?
It would probably be a case of people bringing their own businesses with them.
Exactly, that's the problem with a rural place. There are no jobs and a bunch of new people will cause "issues" in the area.
In a place like Carter Lake a bunch of new people might upset the people of Carter Lake but they wouldn't even be noticed by the Omaha/Council Bluffs metro area. You could get a job in Iowa or Nebraska and still live in the city you hope to slowly move towards freedom.
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what will people do to earn money in the new town?
It would probably be a case of people bringing their own businesses with them.
Exactly, that's the problem with a rural place. There are no jobs and a bunch of new people will cause "issues" in the area.
In a place like Carter Lake a bunch of new people might upset the people of Carter Lake but they wouldn't even be noticed by the Omaha/Council Bluffs metro area. You could get a job in Iowa or Nebraska and still live in the city you hope to slowly move towards freedom.
like working in Casper but living outside of the city of Casper.
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like working in Casper but living outside of the city of Casper.
Like working in Casper but living in the middle of Casper in a separate governmental jurisdiction.
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Actually, now that I think about it, you could own a ranch or farm out in the country but your legal residence would need to be in Carter Lake.