Author Topic: inflation, gas prices and the rural economy in WY - group prep and defense?  (Read 20038 times)

Offline Bret

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Re: inflation, gas prices and the rural economy in WY - group prep and defense?
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2011, 11:58:41 AM »
What makes you think that we are not prepared...... ?

What makes you say that I think that?  I never said it, I never implied it, I never inferred it.

I did talk about a disruption to the flow of goods, I did discuss how martial law could be beneficial because it keeps the hoards low (read the 11th comment on page 1 from Mamaliberty to get context on why I said that, it was a response).  I specifically stated that rural areas could not be covered by martial law due to low resources.


You have been following me on this forum making comments towards me about how I am inferior and do not know anything and all that for a few days.   In this thread you even brought up stuff from other threads just to provoke an argument.  The whole thing about how I am looking for followers - no it is about opting out of state government, federal government (except 14 serious crimes), irs, federal reserve.  I was quite clear that there is nothing to follow that the entire purpose is to have less government, through legal non-violent sanctioned means. 

I dont know why you feel the need to make stuff up just to try to start some big argument.

Offline Ranko Kohime

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Re: inflation, gas prices and the rural economy in WY - group prep and defense?
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2011, 09:14:04 PM »
You have been following me on this forum making comments towards me about how I am inferior and do not know anything and all that for a few days.   In this thread you even brought up stuff from other threads just to provoke an argument.  The whole thing about how I am looking for followers - no it is about opting out of state government, federal government (except 14 serious crimes), irs, federal reserve.  I was quite clear that there is nothing to follow that the entire purpose is to have less government, through legal non-violent sanctioned means.
Pardon the interruption in this exchange, but you mention 14 serious crimes...  I cannot conceive of that many.  May I ask for your list?
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Offline Bret

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Re: inflation, gas prices and the rural economy in WY - group prep and defense?
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2011, 10:38:03 PM »
sure.  This is codified 18 USC ยง 1153 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_18_00001153----000-.html
  • murder
  • manslaughter
  • kidnapping
  • maiming
  • a felony under chapter 109A (aggravated sexual assault)
  • incest
  • assault with intent to commit murder
  • assault with a dangerous weapon
  • assault resulting in serious bodily injury (as defined in section 1365 of this title)
  • an assault against an individual who has not attained the age of 16 years
  • felony child abuse or neglect
  • arson
  • burglary
  • robbery
  • a felony under section 661 of this title (theft more than $1000 or "from the person of another" ie pickpocketing, purse snatching, etc)

And I guess I miscounted the list is 15.  Maybe I combined two of the assaults when I counted before.


This is the list of laws that the FBI has jurisdiction over in "Indian country" any other law comes from the tribal government  themselves.  I do not envision many other laws, if any (one of the things that has to be discussed by the initial founders).  I cant really think of any other laws that really need to be created.

In the case Standing Bear v United States (1995) it was deemed that other laws apply if they are "underlying felonies" of one of these laws.  Specifically Standing Bear murdered someone with a gun, 18 USC 924(c)(1) applied "using a gun in a violent crime" and he got the 5 extra mandatory years on top of the murder sentence.  The court reasoned that because it was an "underlying felony" it applied, had that not been the case it would not have (and there are tons of cases where the courts agree all the other laws do not apply).  18 USC 921 et seq is the federal firearms laws which the courts have affirmed do not generally apply and it requires one of these laws to be violated to allow them to apply to Indians on Indian land under the "underlying felony" logic (I think that is BS, the law doesnt apply and nothing but the courts says anything about "underlying felonies" granting jurisdiction).

I have no problem with that list of crimes, although I would prefer they be done locally and not federally.  Again to clarify there is no enumerated requirement to be a tribal member, its up to the tribal government itself who gets in and who does not.  Specifically there is no blood quantum requirement at all.  A tribal member is a member of that particular tribe whose land it is, an indian of another tribe (per the courts) is like anyone else on that land.  The courts ruled this way because customs and all may be different from tribe to tribe and only tribal members consented to be governed by that tribe.  A tribal member is someone enrolled in that tribe, you may have ancestry to a particular tribe and not be a tribal member, you may live on the reservation and not be a member (70% of the Wind River reservation is not a member).

Keep in mind that this only applies to tribal members and not everyone. 

Non-tribal member walks into a bar ...  oh you heard this one?  Ok so a non-tribal member goes onto indian country they fall into the surrounding state and federal law category, if they violate any of those they can be carted off.  Non-members cannot be tried in a tribal court, they did not consent to their laws and the customs may be different.  In a case of a non-member they are extradited off to the regular criminal justice system.  Non-tribal members may also be ejected at will from tribal land, something states cannot even do (refusal to leave is a federal crime).

Non-tribal member is on indian country and a tribal member does something that is NOT one of these laws, the surrounding state and federal laws apply.  If the tribal government prosecutes first the feds cannot (state laws are prosecuted federally).  This is not double jeopardy exceptions this is a special law that creates this limit.  The courts claim that double jeopardy is only be the same sovereign entity so the state and feds can prosecute you for the same act (although I havent seen that happen).  It is special when it is an indian on indian country though.

Tribal members off their land have to follow all the laws everyone else does, which makes sense - if you ride a motorcycle and go from a helmet optional state to a helmet mandatory state you better have a helmet, same thing applies.

This all gets very complex when you mix tribal members and non tribal members.   The feds have a 2.5 day jurisdiction/border course for law enforcement to cover all of this.

Offline Bret

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Re: inflation, gas prices and the rural economy in WY - group prep and defense?
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2011, 10:54:18 PM »
For completeness I should add there are a ton of laws that deal with non-members interaction. 

Remember these are all federal crimes:
It is illegal for a non-member to claim indian craft work when it is not
It is illegal for a non-member to forge the indian craft trademark logo thingy
It is illegal for a non-member to damage, remove or deface border signs and no hunting signs
It is illegal for a non-member to introduce alcohol to indian country unless the tribal government has passed an affirmative law allowing alcohol and that law is approved by the secretary of the interior - one requirement that law must comply with the state liquor laws, ie drinking age etc.
If a non-member steals, damages or destroys an individual tribal members property on indian country they must pay at least twice its value in restitution (if they cant the US Treasury pays its value but not double) providing the tribal members did not try to get revenge or go after the person


So its kinda a lop sided system but from the perspective of being on the member side it ends up being much more free unless the tribal government passes a ton of laws to micromanage the daily lives of the people (which many seem to do just that usually at the insistence of the tribal members).