Author Topic: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION  (Read 40715 times)

Offline MamaLiberty

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2011, 02:23:51 PM »
However, this fella thinks he oughta be Indiana's next governor, and I think there's a thing or two I can do about that:

I hope like heck you've got someone to watch your back! These weasels don't play nice.
It's not that people are dumber, it's that stupidity used to be more painful.

Offline archy

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2011, 02:59:48 PM »
However, this fella thinks he oughta be Indiana's next governor, and I think there's a thing or two I can do about that:

I hope like heck you've got someone to watch your back! These weasels don't play nice.

Yeah, but if anything happers to me, ALL their accessories and partners get named. And in a couple of the stories I've worked, there's no Statute of Limitations on the crimes involved.

And remember how they kept saying the cover-uo is worse than the crime during Watergate? They hate to be reminded of that when the crime is murder.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-sad-hypocritical-retirement-of-evan-bayh/2011/03/10/AB4MZzY_blog.html

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=3401

I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet. After I realized he had no use for his shoes, I took them, and then I felt much better about myself.

Offline Maol

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2011, 05:24:53 PM »
Archy,

Good luck with all that! Be careful dancing with the devil. I have a story I'll tell you some time, in person only and on a very high hill in Wyoming on a very windy and cloudy day...
She likes to make whiskey and shoot her .308 all day… You just can’t beat a woman that shoots… oh but I do love her still!

Offline archy

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2011, 03:27:13 PM »
No worries, Maol. One of these days, we'll sit upon the ground and tell sad tales of the deaths of Kings.

-archy-/-
I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet. After I realized he had no use for his shoes, I took them, and then I felt much better about myself.

Offline MamaLiberty

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2011, 03:47:43 PM »
No worries, Maol. One of these days, we'll sit upon the ground and tell sad tales of the deaths of Kings.

-archy-/-

And why would those tales be sad?  >:D
It's not that people are dumber, it's that stupidity used to be more painful.

Offline archy

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2011, 04:52:48 PM »
No worries, Maol. One of these days, we'll sit upon the ground and tell sad tales of the deaths of Kings.

-archy-/-

And why would those tales be sad?  >:D

It's a paraphrase of a quotation, ML, From Shakespeare's Richard II, Act 3, Scene 2, in which King Richard II tells Sir Stephen, The Duke of Aumerle and the Bishop- and the audience- that:

No matter where; of comfort no man speak:
 Let's talk of graves, of worms, and epitaphs;
 Make dust our paper and with rainy eyes
 Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth,
 Let's choose executors and talk of wills:
 And yet not so, for what can we bequeath
 Save our deposed bodies to the ground?
 Our lands, our lives and all are Bolingbroke's,
 And nothing can we call our own but death
 And that small model of the barren earth
 Which serves as paste and cover to our bones.
 For God's sake, let us sit upon the ground
 And tell sad stories of the death of kings
;
 How some have been deposed; some slain in war,
 Some haunted by the ghosts they have deposed;
 Some poison'd by their wives: some sleeping kill'd;
 All murder'd: for within the hollow crown
 That rounds the mortal temples of a king
 Keeps Death his court and there the antic sits,
 Scoffing his state and grinning at his pomp,
 Allowing him a breath, a little scene,
 To monarchize, be fear'd and kill with looks,
 Infusing him with self and vain conceit,
 As if this flesh which walls about our life,
 Were brass impregnable, and humour'd thus
 Comes at the last and with a little pin
 Bores through his castle wall, and farewell king!
 Cover your heads and mock not flesh and blood
 With solemn reverence: throw away respect,
 Tradition, form and ceremonious duty,
 For you have but mistook me all this while:
 I live with bread like you, feel want,
 Taste grief, need friends: subjected thus,
 How can you say to me, I am a king?


[i}Richard II[/i], Act 3, Scene 2: http://shakespeare.mit.edu/richardii/richardii.3.2.html
I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet. After I realized he had no use for his shoes, I took them, and then I felt much better about myself.

Offline Maol

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2011, 07:30:57 PM »
Archy well borrowed! Let us indeed do that some time and then with what tasks needing done, having been done, travel to on to  I-Breasil...

The sacred trees stand in rainbow dew,
  Apple and ash and the twisted thorn,
Quicken and holly and dusky yew,
  Ancient ere ever gray Time was born.

The oak spreads mighty beneath the sun
  In a wonderful dazzle of moonlight green–
O would I might hasten from tasks undone,
  And journey whither no grief hath been!

Were I past the mountains of opal flame,
  I would seek a couch of the king-fern brown,
And when from its seed glad slumber came,
  A flock of rare dreams would flutter down.

But I move without in an endless fret,
  While somewhere beyond earth's brink, afar,
Forgotten of men, in a rose-rim set,
  I-Breasil shines like a beckoning star.

- Mrs. Seumus MacManus
She likes to make whiskey and shoot her .308 all day… You just can’t beat a woman that shoots… oh but I do love her still!

Offline archy

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2011, 08:41:23 AM »
Archy well borrowed! Let us indeed do that some time and then with what tasks needing done, having been done, travel to on to  I-Breasil...



Aye. If nothing else, I am as constant as the North Star [my usual reply when someone asks me *How's it going?*]
I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet. After I realized he had no use for his shoes, I took them, and then I felt much better about myself.

Offline Bret

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2011, 11:46:10 AM »
A 2nd amendment comment.  I did not see it anywhere else.

We all know that the 2nd amendment reads in part "... The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".  What many do not do is look at this and fully understand what it means.  Heller affirmed that "the  right of the people" means that it is an individual right and not one held by the states.  This is the first time ever that this phrase was ruled to mean this (for some reason people held it was a state right for a long time, in part due to the "incorporation doctrine" invention SCOTUS did).

"keep and bear arms" is a phrase that goes back to the 1500s and changed only slightly since.  Keep means to own and possess, to have.  "Bear arms" means to use in defense.  In  the 1500s it meant defense of the realm but by the 1700s it also included personal self defense (and there are legal reviews in the early 1800s, comments by the founders in the late 1700s that back this up).  Under this logic there is no 2nd amendment right to have a gun to rob a 7-11 but there is one to protect that store and its contents from being robbed.  This lack of understanding almost always causes the controversy.  Those who think a literal interpretation of the constitution means that anyone can have a gun and do anything they want with it generally want more laws to prevent that while others who do not see the need to use a gun just because you have a gun generally want fewer laws.

"shall not be infringed" while Heller did use a bit of the "living document" interpretation and ignore this phrase entirely when Scalia listed a long list of infringements that are allowed, this phrase has a clear meaning.  No infringements to the right of self defense and state/national defense with a gun is allowed.  Not registration, not permits, not banned weapon lists, not banned people lists, no infringements are allowed.

Fundamentally the 2nd amendment exists to guarantee that you are able to protect yourself.  It is a right of self defense.

For people that think felons should be excluded from owning weapons are you not saying they are too dangerous to have a gun?  If they are so dangerous why are they not monitored until they no longer are a danger?  No one argues that while incarcerated you lose certain rights.  You lose the right to keep and bear arms, it is impossible to have a prison when the prisoners are armed.  You lose the right to associate with people you choose, to assemble, (ignoring that the first amendment reads "Congress shall ..." and thus does not apply to the states).  You lose the 4th amendment protections and your cell and person may be searched.  There are various other rights that you lose because you cannot operate a prison that way.  There is nothing that states you lose them for life though, and in fact only the second amendment is a right lost for life, all others are restored once your term of incarceration is complete (there is no right to vote in the constitution just lists of reasons that may not be used to disqualify you). 

Probation, parole, supervised release, halfway house, house arrest, and more are modified forms of incarceration.  While incarcerated, even if it is modified, rights can be curtailed.  Thus supervision not only makes a felon gun ban constitutional it protects society more than a mere gun ban because people are being monitored, they are being supervised, there are people in charge of ensuring they reintegrate into society.


Offline kingskid

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2012, 09:53:00 PM »
Hello you all!  Just joined FSW and am enjoying the intelligent and knowledgeable bantering and serious talk on this thread.  There are some real renaissance men here!

Currently, I live on 5 acres about 15 miles east of Colorado Springs with two dogs and 10 chickens.  I have at least some accoutrements that give a bit of independence:  solar system w/16-battery backup and transfer switch that I operate manually to be either on or off grid; septic system and well.  Problem, though, is I am too close to civilization and that is why I am pondering a move.  Like the Bible says, however, you don't build a house without first sitting down and working it all out on paper first (my paraphrase).  When I bought this property more than 18 yrs ago it was just undeveloped land with a lot of yucca and I developed it one step at a time.  It was a lot of work doing that, then planting trees, bushes (hundreds) etc. 

Anyway, saying all that to say this:  a lot of myself has been invested here and I don't know if I really could or should sell it and move to Wyoming or any place else.  For a single woman it is daunting to think about, even knowing that having done it before I could probably do it again.  It might be better to try to get trusted folks to come to my home here if the stuff hits the fan.  Even though my home is too small to accommodate more than 1 or 2 others, I have a 30'x40' garage that could house temp housing.

Like you all, I am very independent-minded but only woke up to the deep, deep corruption in the fed gov't when Obama conned the foolish, progressives, minorities and those who wanted to prove they weren't racists started dismantling what was left of our freedom.  The problem for those of us who want to be left alone to live our lives as we see fit is what has already been stated so succinctly in this thread:  the system has its tentacles all over this country and it'll be very difficult to "...live in the world and not be of the world."  Scripture and difference context for sure, but there is an application that is appropriate for what we face.

I didn't mean to write a book, but am thinking out loud because from the comments I've read, I think there is a lot of wisdom in this group and would appreciate any thoughts you all might have.  Thanks and God bless.  Oh yes, I do have a gun (.38 Special S&W & concealed carry permit), but am not a good shot!
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2.  Never, ever work on your garage door spring!

Offline MamaLiberty

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2012, 05:56:58 AM »
Oh yes, I do have a gun (.38 Special S&W & concealed carry permit), but am not a good shot!

Welcome! Sure hope you'll come visit us as a part of your discovery process. The "Jamboree" in June is a perfect opportunity to do that.

And get out to practice with that gun, lady. :) If this old gal can do it, anybody can. I'd love to go shooting with you too.
It's not that people are dumber, it's that stupidity used to be more painful.

Offline Danl

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2012, 06:44:42 AM »
Kingskid,

Welcome and stick around.  You will figure it out.....  Regards, Danl ~W~
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Offline FlyingDevildog

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2012, 04:02:05 PM »
Welcome Ms Kingskid.

and yes do check out the Jamboree this June.

been a few years since my last one, but it was worth every minute of my time there.

Good Luck

Dawg
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Offline Paul Bonneau

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2012, 07:37:05 PM »
It's a tough choice to leave a place you've invested a lot of time in, and friends you can trust. Just a guess, we are pretty late in the game for moves too. OTOH, have you seen Ferfal's comments about living in rural locations when things go bad?

IF we get a good collection of decent people up there in NW Wyoming you might see some old-fashioned Amish style barn raisings (or their equivalent) so if that happens it would take some of the risk out of a move there. But of course you would have to fit in for that to take place. Only you can judge whether that would be the case. And yes, the Jam is the perfect place to do it.

Welcome aboard...  :)
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Offline warytraveler

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Re: WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2014, 06:37:08 PM »
New to the site, that's a great read.