Thrift, small farms, and the housing bubble

[Don Wills]

  All in all, you're going to have a tough time being self-sufficent here unless you've got a lot of money to build and operate large greenhouses.

I really disagree Don.  Granted, greenhouses will obviously extend growing seasons and give you some degree of year-round production, but they are not absolutely necessary.  With proper gardening techniques (not requiring massive soil improvements either), one can be completely self-sufficient in *most of* Wyoming...

I stand by my statements.  Being "self-sufficient" is a whole lot bigger deal than being a "hobby farmer".  You'll need many acres to either be a cattle rancher or dry-land wheat farmer, making enough income to trade with others for necessary fruits, vegetables, dairy and poultry to be "self-sufficient".  On two acres, you'll have no dairy (what are you going to feed your cows?), no poultry (what are you going to feed your chickens?), and not enough land to grow a full year's worth of other food for your family.  Depending on the quality of the land, the local climate, and access to water, if you want to be truly self-sufficent in Wyoming, you'll need anywhere from 200 to 2000 acres to grow enough grass to feed your cattle to be the staple of your diet to be truly self-sufficient.  And forget fruits and many types of vegetables - without a greenhouse, you have zero chance of growing them.  And even then it will be tough - the dirt really is miserable, as is the weather.  Paul's earlier comment about the amount of sun (ie. latitude) is only relevant if the temperature isn't freezing outside.  As most of Wyoming is above 5,000' and is very dry, the average overnight temperature is far below that of Wisconsin.  That's what really matters about being successful in a garden - overnight lows and consecutive frost-free nights, both of which make Wisconsin a far better place to try to be "self-sufficient" on minimal land without a greenhouse.

To reiterate - there is a huge difference between being "self-sufficient" and a "hobby farmer".  And there is also a huge difference between Wisconsin and Wyoming.

[marciab]

Lots of people, including me, grow enough vegetables to keep us supplied until the next growing season.  You do need to have a plan for preserving said vegetables.  People in our part of the state grow apples, cherries, pears, peaches, plums, and grapes.  Usually, there is enough locally grown fertilizer to amend your soil.  I forgot to add blackberries, rasberries, chokecherries, and gooseberries.

[Crappiewy]

Ohh Oranges, in Wyoming, In the winter.

[Don Wills]

I stumbled on this very interesting web site while googling around looking for info on gardening in Wyoming.  Check out the link along the left side titled "Gardening".

http://www.highaltitudelife.com/

Whenever anyone comes kicking tires here at the FSW forum, we probably ought to point them to this web site.

[manfromnevada]

Here's a link to the "degree growing days" for Devil's Tower.
http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliMAIN.pl?wy2466

This can be compared to other locations. But DT is a full 1,000' below me. I'm at 4,950'. One year we tried growing tomatoes on the front south facing deck. Never got anything but little yellow globes. The next year we tried "Early Girl" variety. A bit better. Got about 10 golf ball sized tomatoes out of two plants (grown in containers with potting soil and good watering).

As with anything else, location, location, location. With enough effort, nearly anything can be done, somehow, but is it practical? The temperature at the bottom of my driveway, (100' lower) is noticeably cooler than right up near the house on the hillside. Micro climate is important too.

Good luck.

Mac

[Paul Bonneau]

Most people will not be able to take care of themselves because we, as Americans, have become a nation of soft pussies who want everything without truly earning it for ourselves.

Hunger is quite a motivator though.

Here's an elevation map:
http://www.netstate.com/states/geography/mapcom/wy_mapscom.htm
Fortunately the main FSW counties are mostly in the lower elevation areas.

We had a garden in the back yard in Cody (5000 ft elevation). The sunlight was just OK (big trees nearby). We had a good fence that broke the wind. We got pretty reasonable production, and neither of us has a true green thumb. Our worst problem was curly top leaf virus that came from nearby beet farms, pretty much killed our tomatoes, but lots of other things grew well (bok choi, raspberries, rhubarb, some other things I can't remember).

Mac is right, microclimate is very important. Shelter from wind is very important.

Thanks for that website link, Don.

Crappiewy, I'm guessing you heat that greenhouse in winter?

[Crappiewy]

Its a room inside my house.
1000W sodium vapor light.
If everything goes right I will build my greenhouse next spring.
Any how if the green house is built right there is not much need for heat. A open flame does help with carbon dioxide.
In Cheyenne there is a green house at the botanical gardens that is more than 6000 sq ft and is unheated. They grow tropical plants there such as orchids. It is at over 6000ft in elevation.

[sambaguy]

Um, botanical gardens in Cheyenne sounds like a big waste.