Author Topic: Wyoming National Guard  (Read 5238 times)

Offline Brutus

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Wyoming National Guard
« on: March 01, 2008, 12:42:57 PM »
Hey guys,

I've only been in the past couple of weeks taking a serious look at the FSW and Wyoming in general.  I did have my mind set on NH's FSP for awhile... but something just wasn't connecting for me.  I'm a four year active duty Army grunt, been in the CA National Guard for a few years, and I want to continue my service in Wyoming.

How open is FSW to guardsmen, how many guardsmen are in this project; and heck--if those first two questions can be answered well here, I'm curious what the local units are like in Wyoming.  All I can assume now is that anywhere is better than California when it comes to taking care of it's guardsmen.

Offline socalserf

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2008, 01:10:32 PM »
Brutus, Welcome to you.
Hopefully this might answer some of your questions.
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=24.0
California has many problems, and the National Guard situation is one of them.
I'm looking to get out too.


Offline MamaLiberty

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2008, 06:14:58 AM »
Brutus, the question isn't so much what you are doing as WHY... There are a lot of folks on this forum who are currently or recently in the military, and many fine veterans. I was a Marine "brat" and a Navy wife, so I do understand quite a bit about it too.

Do you want to live without aggression? Are you prepared to be a good neighbor, to live and let live? Once you have answered those for yourself, the military life may not really fit you any longer - but only you can decide that.

I'd suggest some serious talk with the veterans on this board. :)
It's not that people are dumber, it's that stupidity used to be more painful.

Offline planetaryjim

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2008, 03:02:35 PM »
How open is FSW to guardsmen, how many guardsmen are in this project;

I believe the Free State Wyoming project is open to anyone.  I do not believe there is any formal statement about members of the national guard or military reserves.

The formal statement about who may join is indicated on the freestatewyoming.org web site frequently asked questions (FAQ) page. 
http://www.freestatewyoming.org/free-state-wyoming-faq.html

It says there, in part, "those who formally reject fraud, theft, and aggression as political and social expedients, and who desire to relocate to Wyoming as good neighbors for the peaceable goals of political liberty, free trade, and voluntary cooperation," may join the FSW.

What does this idea mean to a member of the national guard or one of the military reserve forces?  Well, I expect that most of the people who join the guard and reserve are doing so out of a belief in defending themselves and their neighbors against aggression, especially foreign aggression, and to provide prepared individuals able to respond to emergencies, including natural disasters and extreme weather.  I believe that any sensible person ought to be happy that there are people in his community who want to defend life, liberty, and property from aggression, from foreign invasion, and from natural disasters.

So, I think there are quite a number of current and former military people on this discussion forum.  I believe there are many individuals who are currently a part of the guard or reserve.  And, I welcome them, you, and anyone else who takes seriously the responsibilities inherent in such a role.  Simply put, more people who are better prepared should be better neighbors.

Obviously, there are issues, as well, with some of the things that the guard and reserve may be tasked to do.  For example, there are guard units which have in the past and others which are currently overseas engaged in military occupation of other countries.  I like what Ron Paul has said about these military matters, that the USA ought to have a foreign policy of peace and free trade, not one of war and intervention.  What you as an individual might be able to do about it if your unit is called up to serve in some other country, I don't know.  What you choose to do has to be up to you, of course, and is partly a matter of what your character is like, and significantly a matter of what difficulties you face if you should refuse an order to, say, deploy to, let's hypothetically say, occupy Iceland to overthrow the government there.

There are also issues with the domestic conduct of some guard units.  For example, in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans some Oklahoma guard units were involved in going door to door and confiscating guns.  Much of this activity was filmed and documented, especially in neighborhoods where the residents were in their own homes, not a threat to anyone, and needed guns to protect themselves (of course!).  I do not believe such behavior is legitimate.  I believe such behavior is unconstitutional.  And, I am mightily disappointed in the guardsmen who did not stand up for right, for justice, for liberty, and for the constitution by refusing to obey such vile and disgusting orders.

These are legitimate criticisms, I believe.  But, do they have any relationship to you, or to your service in the guard? I don't know.  And, I cannot choose for you whether your involvement in the guard is, on balance, a better or worse thing for you, for liberty, for your neighbors.  You have to be the one to choose how you behave, and that's always true whether someone orders you to behave one way or not.

It would be my preference if the men and women of the guard and reserve were aware of these issues, and discussed them.  I think it is important to consider who you serve, or what cause you serve.  If a superior officer orders you to do something you believe to be wrong, how would you act?  I don't ask that you answer me, as you don't answer to me (nobody does, really).  Nor do you need to answer here.  What I would like best is for you to think about it, as Mama Liberty suggests.  Think about what is right, what is wrong, what you are doing, and whether you would continue to be prepared and be in a position to defend life, liberty, and property outside the guard.  Think about what course of action is best for you.

It seems to me that a good case can be made for being a part of the guard, doing your part, and serving your country.  A reasonable case can be made that, because of the way guard units have been deployed to attack American freedoms in some cases, it would be unwise to continue in that role.  But, ultimately, being a part of the guard cannot be used to disqualify you from joining the FSW, because it is not a disqualifying choice - as indicated above.  Rather, it suggests, to me, a desire to be decent, neighborly, and involved in defending life, liberty, and property.

I don't know if this answer is at all helpful.  It should certainly be viewed as my personal opinion, in accordance with the footer for each of my posts.  I've done my best to offer my understanding of the FSW rules and statement of intent, but I have no official capacity.

Thank you for doing your part in defending life, liberty, and property.  Remember to keep your head down.
My long posts make some think I'm a key figure in FSW.  I'm not. I'm not an officer nor a leader.  I'm just this guy.  I think FSW is a great idea, & defend & promote it as I'm able.   Assuming that anyone agrees w/me is mistaken. Your bad results from your poor assumptions are your responsibility.

Offline wyomiles

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2008, 04:46:46 PM »
Welcome Brutus
" Cultivators of the earth are tied to their country and wedded to it's liberty and interests by the most lasting bonds" --Thomas Jefferson --1785

Offline Barry Turner

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2008, 06:18:45 PM »
Hi Brutus,

In case you haven't had time to look for info, yet, here's the WYARNG website:
http://www.wy.ngb.army.mil/default.asp

Here's the WYANG website, too, while I'm at it:
http://www.wychey.ang.af.mil/main.asp

There're links to lots of info for people interested in moving to Wyoming here:
http://wyoming.gov/relocation.asp

I hope these help get you to Wyoming.

Barry Turner
A lie can travel halfway round cyberspace while the truth is logging into its blog.  BT

Offline Brutus

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2008, 07:16:56 PM »
Thanks for all the input everyone, I really do appreciate it.

I wasn't worried about any specific restrictions on who could join but rather how receptive a guardsman would be amongst this group.  The project strikes as as libertarian-leaning, which I love, but I'm also aware that some libertarians have zero tolerance for government.  I am glad to see that this is not the case here.  I did my best to live and let live, essentially following the non-aggression principle but my military service has always been an odd exception that I can't explain so as a result I treat that aspect of my life apolitically.  This isn't to say that I haven't forgotten nor neglect my Oath of Office.

I did find the formal statement and the FAQ to be very heartening and I both agree with and accept them.  Having links here to initially work with is also helpful in comparison to my random wandering the site before.  Thanks again guys  :)

Offline manfromnevada

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2008, 07:38:17 PM »
Brutus,
You asked what are people like in WY?
I live here in Crook County. I have two arms, two legs, a head, and another useful apendage.  ::)
I'm married to a wonderful woman, going on 34 years now and have two grown daughters (both in PRK).

I guess I'm like a lot of people here. Love the wide open spaces, the dark blue skies, looking at the Milky Way at night, enjoy seeing the wildlife, enjoy my (relative) freedoms up here, the ability to carry in the open without incident, and the ability to build my home up here with little to no intervention from gov't types.

I am a veteran. For most of my life I thought I was doing "my country" a great service. Being patriotic, etc. I've had a change of mind and heart lately. I do not see our service men and women as "defending us from harm" or "defending the homeland" or "protecting the world for the next generation". WWII was different. All "wars" (or shall I say conflicts?) subsequent to that have been nothing but U.S. aggression abroad. Much like the sabre rattling now going on with Iran. There will always be a war. Keeps the gov't in control. Just like 1984. I have a nephew that's currently serving in the Navy in Afghanistan (of all places). I wish him the best and a safe return, but I don't sleep better at night knowing that "we're" over there.

That's my take. As they say, you're mileage may vary.

Mac
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
<Edmund Burke>

Offline Brutus

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2008, 08:43:03 PM »
Brutus,
You asked what are people like in WY?
I live here in Crook County. I have two arms, two legs, a head, and another useful apendage.  ::)
I'm married to a wonderful woman, going on 34 years now and have two grown daughters (both in PRK).

I guess I'm like a lot of people here. Love the wide open spaces, the dark blue skies, looking at the Milky Way at night, enjoy seeing the wildlife, enjoy my (relative) freedoms up here, the ability to carry in the open without incident, and the ability to build my home up here with little to no intervention from gov't types.

I am a veteran. For most of my life I thought I was doing "my country" a great service. Being patriotic, etc. I've had a change of mind and heart lately. I do not see our service men and women as "defending us from harm" or "defending the homeland" or "protecting the world for the next generation". WWII was different. All "wars" (or shall I say conflicts?) subsequent to that have been nothing but U.S. aggression abroad. Much like the sabre rattling now going on with Iran. There will always be a war. Keeps the gov't in control. Just like 1984. I have a nephew that's currently serving in the Navy in Afghanistan (of all places). I wish him the best and a safe return, but I don't sleep better at night knowing that "we're" over there.

That's my take. As they say, you're mileage may vary.

Mac

Believe it or not, I also share this view.  I do not believe that I'm defending one's freedom or liberty here in America.  I'm not really sure how to explain why I remain in the military, even in a part-time status now. 

I suppose the best way I can explain it is that I stay for the soldiers in the respective units I've been in.  I hope that with each day that passes that the people come to their senses and end these quixotic adventures overseas, but at the same time--even knowing that the military is being used in an unjust and unconstitutional manner--I stay because I want people that I care about to come home, at least the ones I'm charge of.  I think the only thing that would bring me to completely drop my duties were if I were asked to turn my arms against my fellow countrymen. 

It is difficult to explain and the awkward position that I'm placed in (opposing most of our government's wars and supporting my fellow soldiers) does give me grief.  I'm just hoping that it will not be held against me and am curious if there are others like me who are already there of at least considering the same move.

You do have the benefit of having many more years of wisdom than I do and I suspect that in the end I will think completely the same way you do; acknowledging too that we are probably in 99% agreement over how we want to live and what we expect from our government  :)

Offline az_coyote

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2008, 11:15:25 PM »
Brutus,

I'm glad you posted! I am in a very similar position.

Although I am out of the NG, I would like to do my last 4 years someday and get my retirement. If and WHEN I go back in and what state I enlist with will depend on whether I choose NH or WY and what transpires in the way of our nation's foreign policy in the next decade.

In the meantime, I am working overseas as a high risk security specialist. I am an independent contractor, and although I work almost exclusively for government clients, I would prefer to get my paycheck from a private client, (as opposed to government money confiscated from U.S. taxpayers). However, it is very hard to do that when the Federal Government has a partial or almost complete monopoly on the security industry, and what little private competition is allowed is also heavily regulated.

I chose to leave the ARNG for a while and pursue a career in the private sector because it gave me the flexibility to choose my own assignments, participate in the struggle against the Global Jihadists in a purely defensive role and because it allows me to be at home with my family far more than the military ever would allow me to be.

As libertarians, we ALL struggle with the internal contradictions between our ideology and our lives. Thomas Jefferson, like many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, wrestled with his concince over the fact that he owned slaves. George Washington got the experience he needed to lead the War of Independence by serving as an officer in a militia under an imperial army which he later would meet on the field of battle. The founding fathers accepted aid from another imperial power which they themselves, as British subjects, had very recently fought against. Yet they decided that it was worth it to accept France's money and military aid in the hope that it would help bring about their own independence and inspire the French to have a revolution of their own.

I wish that I could say that the struggle for freedom was always fought and won only by those who were pure, unwavering and uncompromising in their principles. But that would just be historical revisionism. Freedom is won by those men and women who see contradictions, including the contradictions in their own lives, and decide to just press on towards liberty while trying to sort themselves out as best they can, little by little.

Some of the best libertarian minds in the last two centuries have been professors at government subsidized universities. Should they have abandoned their vocations as philosophers and economists simply because we believe that there should be a separation of education and state? Some libertarians might say, "Yes", but I would be very reluctant to say that.

As a veteran who is even considering participating in FSW, I would guess that the reason you want to stay in the military is because you have a calling to put yourself between innocent people and danger. It is a perfectly honorable thing to be a sheepdog against the wolves of this world. The problem is just that the government has a virtual monopoly over the defense industry, and that puts people like you and me in a dilemma. But I look forward to the day, even if it's not in our lifetime, when guys who are called to our vocation have the freedom to pursue their calling without having to go to a recruiter and wonder what on earth they might be signing up for. 

Offline Paul Bonneau

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2008, 11:32:21 PM »
There are plenty of ex-military here. Some in the sandbox right now I guess.

I believe it was discovered by the military mucky-mucks, back in WWI, that a very large percentage of soldiers simply made no attempt to kill the men on the other side. And the mucky-mucks did what they could to change that fact. But if I were in the guard, engaged in occupying somebody else's country, I'd certainly think about the advantages of that old tradition, of not killing another man who is fighting for his own country in his own country. In other words, my accuracy might suffer.  :)
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Offline wyomiles

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2008, 10:51:43 AM »
AZ-coyote,  Nice post, and welcome.
" Cultivators of the earth are tied to their country and wedded to it's liberty and interests by the most lasting bonds" --Thomas Jefferson --1785

Offline az_coyote

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2008, 12:50:47 PM »
AZ-coyote,  Nice post, and welcome.

Thanks for the warm welcome!
Sorry I didn't introduce myself first or fill out my profile before posting a novel. But I look forward to interacting with everyone here  :)

Offline FreedomFighter101

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2008, 01:35:54 PM »
Quote
Some in the sandbox right now I guess.
I'm in the sandbox right now

And I struggle with the same question every day 'Why am I over here "defending freedom" when our freedoms at home are being attacked every day by the same people that sent me over here?'
« Last Edit: March 03, 2008, 01:38:07 PM by FreedomFighter101 »

Offline Blaineus

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Re: Wyoming National Guard
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2008, 04:37:30 PM »
I'm going to the semi-sandbox soon...

I don't know what I'll do when my commitment is up.  Officer's are a bit different.  It's even easier for them to keep you around if they want.

We'll cross that bridge when it comes.

Right now, I'm content knowing that my mission and capabilities don't force me to harm anyone directly.  I fly that big ugly helicopter there, and it's not an attack chopper at all.

I know, I know there is indirect aggression there... but hey, I signed up before my enlightenment.  I make do the best I can.   ;)
I will walk with integrity of heart within my house; I will not set before my eyes anything that is base. I hate the work of those who fall away; it shall not cleave to me.  Perverseness of heart shall be far from me; I will know nothing of evil.
~Psalm 101