Author Topic: Wyoming and its challenges  (Read 22932 times)

Offline duncan

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Wyoming and its challenges
« on: August 18, 2008, 11:25:15 AM »
I moved to Wyoming in 2001 from Ft. Collins, Colorado as a political refugee of this socialistic state. I'm not new to the area my father was born in Burns, WY and his father owned a seed house during the Great Depression in the same town. My grandfather also took up a homestead near Iron Mountian after he had coem of age and left his own fathers homestead which was near to Hereford, Colorado along the WY/CO border.

Is Wyoming liberty minded? Nope. The state for the most part is run by ranchers and farmers all of whom recieve one form of federal welfare or another to grow or not to grow certian types of crops or they will use federal lands to feed their cattle at a cost to all tax payers.

Cheyenne is the capitol, like or not that simply the way it is and the way it will continue to be for the remainder of our life times. The majority of Cheyenne's populace is made up of human parasites that either work for the fed or the state and these people do not like the kind of individuals that have no need for thier usless services or the kind of people that simply want to be left alone. These statist employeee especially at the county level do pretty much as they damn well please and ignore the local laws as it suits them. This attitude is the norm thru out the state.

If you live in the SW part of the state you will get screwed by the local Mormons, especially if youa re a non-Moromon. If you live in the central part of the state you will screwed by the local indian tribes, all three of them. If in Casper you will get screwed by the oil corporations or Dick Cheney. All use the state government for their own selfish ends. I suggest that you take a civics course at the local community college to see how the Wyoming Constituion has set up the different styles of city and town governments.

In most parts of Wyoming you will find that there is little work and a high cost of living in the housing market. In Cheyenne the number $7 appears to be the majic number for hourly wages but the average cost of a home is at around 100K and up. The cost of housing is far worse in places like Jackson Hole, Dubois, Big Piney and Gillette. Hell in Gillette you would be hard put to even find a home to live in as there is shortage of housing in the area due to the large number of construction workers that have come to the area to find work. You can always work for the state prison in Rawlins, they pay $9 an hour and housing is cheap and plentiful there. If you've ever been to Rawlins you will see why.

You will find that the state has its very own state run Wyoming Homeland Security which serves no usefull purpose, but to spy on people like you and me because we have deemed to be "domestic terrorists' for having an opposing view on Bush's illegal invasion of Iraq. The dregs of Wyoming LE lobbied the politicians to do this so that they could all have a nice secure tax consuming job. These clowns are calling places like Ft. Fetterman "...a possible terrorist target.".

If you think that Wyoming is freedom minded think again.

Offline Danl

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Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2008, 12:07:51 PM »
Duncan,

Try moving to Illinois or California for another perspective........  I think question is one of degrees of freedom.   I do not have time to compare our (Illinois) situation against that of Wyoming right now but someone will probably respond with some comparisons.......   

No one state is free, but some are definitely more free than others.....

Regards, Danl ~W~
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Offline colonial shooter

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2008, 04:45:13 PM »
Duncan, As a transplant here, I take offense at your comments. I am in Casper and manage a business here. We can't seem to get good help here. Our local competition( for jobs) Mc D is paying the high schooler 9.50hr to flip burgers. That is normal for the entire area. If you like freedom this is the place to go. live and let live is what I see to a great extent. Like Danl says try IL or Ma for a eye opening experience. my .02
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Offline manfromnevada

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2008, 07:14:55 PM »
Duncan,
Thanks for your upbeat first posting on our forum!
You have a mish mash of info that is nothing but negative.
Take Gillette for instance. Yes, housing is hard to find, but it's because of the huge job market and good wages that the energy extraction companies pay. People are flocking to Gillette. And increased demand always leads to either increased prices or shortages. That's the way the market works.

Seems that almost every group has their hand out these days for taxpayer money. That's true. But that doesn't mean the people here, like the ranchers, are bad folks. It's a bad system, not bad people.

Me? I'm really happy I moved here. Wouldn't trade it for the world. I am a freedom minded person. I AM free, or at least FREEer here than where I came from. This is the best place to live as far as I'm concerned.

Mac
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 09:41:19 PM by manfromnevada »
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Offline celeste

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2008, 09:39:04 PM »
Ah, a voice of reason.  As a person with roots back four generations in this state as well, I do agree with very much of what duncan is saying.  Many of the transplants have a tendancy to see Wyoming as MORE FREE, and then not pay attention to the fact that it isn't free.  Many FSW'ers come from a place where loss of freedom ranks on a scale of one to 10 at 7, 8 or 9, and Wyoming comes in at a measly 3,4, or 5.

Where duncan misunderstands is that Wyoming is not a free state it is a place where freedom from the state is easier. (at least that is my take)

But his points are very valid and will lead in a very short time to Wyoming being like any other place where the people with thth power and the money get undue regulations instituted into law to protect their interests (money/income).  I recently spoke with a senator and he outrightly admitted that trying to fight the medical community was futile becasue the politions themselves relied on the doctors for health.  The more beaurocrats you have the more laws they make to protect their money/income.  Very likely Wyoming is lost as a free political state.  It's not like we can just stop taking money from the Fed's so we can stop obeying their coersive laws, Wyoming would be out ALOT of jobs.  Keep reading Duncan and you will geta better idea of what the freedom these FSW'ers are speaking of is.
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Offline kylben

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 07:19:29 AM »
Since I'm strongly considering the move, I'm glad to have duncan and ckumelos point out the warts.  It doesn't sound like enough to stop me, since, as others have pointed out, relative freedom is all we can expect to have already waiting for us anywhere.  And even compared to AZ, which is like a libertarian paradise compared to where I come from in the Chicago suburbs, it is relatively free.

But it's worth looking into.  Not in an "omg stay away from Wyoming!!" kind of way, but in the sense of being prepared for exactly what shape that relative freedom will take.  And, don't forget, part of what the FSW is about is changing things for the better, not merely taking it as it is.  It's easier to sculpt a Michealangelo if your stone is already in vaguely human proportions than if it is shaped like a steaming pile of horses**t.
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Offline biathlon

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 09:21:34 AM »
 I guess for unskilled labor the situation here is not real promising but with no income taxes and short commutes it's better than most of the rest of the US. I've been offered several positions in Gillette that would more than pay for a decent home. I had to do my time in one of Uncle Sams trade schools(the military), use my GI benefits to go to civilian trade schools, finish an apprenticship and then continue studying till I finaly reached "Master" status within my discipline but HEY, the current generation thinks they're 'sposed to have EVERYTHING NOW as soon as they finish high school or college and it's the GOVERNMENTS job to see to it! Gimme a break! Anyone with some genuine ability and a WYOMING work ethic will more than thrive here. Personaly, I'm hoping to relocate to Sheridan.

Offline wyomiles

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 07:35:27 PM »
Well Howdy Duncan, long time no arguments ! Lets see how long it takes you to get booted from this forum ! Or you can play nice this time.
Folks if you want to see what Duncan is all about go look him up at The Mental Militia forum. He hates Wyoming and I really don't know why he lives there. Do not let him suck you in ! I consider him to be a troll of the highest form ! JMHO !
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Offline godscarp

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 08:55:22 PM »
wyomiles great to have sugar coatin' stuff again!!!!!! :D
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Offline manfromnevada

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 09:30:02 PM »
I guess freedom is relative.

Since moving to Crook County I'm free to:
Build a house whichever way I want with no zoning.
Ditto with "land use". There isn't any here.
I needed no excavation permit.
I needed no building permit.
I needed no electrical permit.
I needed no plumbing permit.
I needed no inspections of any kind for the structure (only for the septic system, which is controlled by the state).
I live on a private road. I'm "free" to drink and drive on it (if I was foolish enough to).
I OC my gun nearly every place I go in WY & SD. No one has ever freaked out over it.
I can shoot from my deck without causing alarm from either the neighbors or law enforcement.
The sheriff deputies wave when we pass each other on the highway. I wave back.
The deputies start up pleasant conversation when they see me OCing rather than "GET ON THE GROUND!"
I'm free to look up at the Milky Way and the meteor showers without man made light pollution.
I'm able to drive around at night on the highways and almost never have to use my low beams due to oncoming traffic.
And I'm able to call or visit the local county offices, like the county clerk, treasurer, assessor, and DMV, and get polite, prompt, friendly service with a smile.

This may not fit someone else's definition of being "free", but it's about the closest thing you'll EVER find in this country in the 21st century. Wyoming may not be perfect, but it's the closest thing I've found to heaven while living on earth.

Mac
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Offline duncan

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2008, 11:48:21 AM »
"Well Howdy Duncan, long time no arguments ! Lets see how long it takes you to get booted from this forum !"

Why the threat?

"Or you can play nice this time."

Or rather you boot people whom you disagree with.

"Folks if you want to see what Duncan is all about go look him up at The Mental Militia forum. He hates Wyoming and I really don't know why he lives there. Do not let him suck you in ! I consider him to be a troll of the highest form ! JMHO !"

Troll for what group? What cause? What personal gain do I get from being attacked on a personal level?

I've never been in a militia so why the name calling? Hates? I'm from Wyoming how about you? I hate statism and Wyoming is a state is it not? There is a reason that they call it The Great STATE of Wyoming. Do you want to lie to these people or do you want to hear from a guy who knows the area and can tell you what to look out for? Are you just another one of those LP control freaks? When the issue isn't going the way you want it to then you name call? I thought you folks were into liberty? How is lying about me going to achieve this end? How is simply moving to another state only to drive up the property taxes going to achieve this end? Sorry to burst your bubble pal, but things in WY ain't all that you would like them to be.

All that glitters is not gold and so it goes in this state as well as the rest. No matter were you go in this country you still have to face the fed and Wyoming is not independent of the fed. The national VP is from Wyoming and supports corporate welfare. The fed holds at least one third of this states property and calls it all 'public lands' yet only the few are allowed to use this land.

Why do I live here? Well this is were I'm from, this is were my family is from and has lived for over 125 years. What good would it do me to move to another state as they are all fall under the despotism of the fed, so no matter were I lived in this country things would be no better. Being an anarchist only means that no matter where you go you in this world you will still be surrounded by the state.

I grew up in FC and saw this great town turn into a den of socialism, which now has its very own 'porch police' to prevent people from placing couches on their own porches. I moved out of the county that Fc resides in and into a smaller town north of FC along the WY/CO border and the socialist mentality followed me there, so I moved further north into another small town on the WY side of the WY/CO border and in matter of a few years I began to see the very same things happening that I had saw happening in CO. Stuff like property values going sky high, which in turn drove up property taxes. Places like Lander turn into a little Boulder, CO. Hollyweird types moving into Jackson and paying millions for property that a few years ago were worth a few hundred dollars per acre, which in turn drove out the locals and forced them move miles and miles away, just like I saw happen to Aspen and the town Boston is from in CO.

I heard about how WY was liberal in the area of CCW permits and I found out that the state IS NOT pro CCW permits at all. You are not allowed to carry concealed in your own car or motorcycle unless you have a CCW permit, CO at least allows people to carry in their cars without permits. in order to obtian one of these permits you must first see the county sheriff and pay him $80 bucks. The sheriff will process your application and then give it to the local city police Chief even if you don't live in any city. The head copster will then send off your application to thing called DCI aka The Division of Criminal Investigation or WY version of an FBI. How aobut that WY has its very own state run FBI just like most other states. If you are like me a 'gun rights' activist or just your average variety polticla activst who has been in the paper you will be denied a CCW permit. So much for the notion that the state of WY supports gun rights. I have no felonies or domestic violence charges. The WY copsters will deny anyone a permit and they don't need a reason to do so. Check out the State Supreme Courts decision on this issue which allows the copsters to do as they please irrelevant of the law. WY copsters turn down hundreds of apliccants every year and work to conceal this fact.

With this in mind and my thought is that there is no point in moving again, I must stay and fight it or live with it. I choose to stay and fight it.

Boston made the claim that the state of Wyoming respect property rights. No it doesn't, the state law says that the county assessor shall send out his/her parasites to inspect your property every four years. This state law allows these same tax consumers to come onto your property and peek into your windows. No? Yes and my neighbors have seen it done to them and me. They don't even do this sort of thing in Colorado.

You will find that the vehicle registration tax is very high in this state. I'll grant you that there is no employment tax, but then there is very little employment in this state and so it makes little or no difference that there is no state income taxes and you still have to deal with the IRS. Low property taxes? It all depends on were you live in this state. You will pay something and you will get nothing in return from the state for your money, just like all the other 49 states.

I thought one of your FSW platforms was to get liberty minded types into positions of political power and undo any of the wrongs? How long has the FSW project been in existence? Five or seven years now? I've yet to see one state politicians with the letters LP behind their name. In the last seven years things have gotten worse and not better for liberty in WY. But this aside, Boston claims to be an anarchist and he knows that I am one as well, so why would an anarchist seek power thru a statist platform. Try as hard as you might there is no way that anyone can control an entire state thru a democratic process. Democracy is simply the rule of the majority or the tyranny of the majority and the Republicans are the tyrants of the state of Wyoming. I have more respect for the Democrat governor than I do many of these professional politicians who call themselves Republicans, as most of them are in office to serve themselves and their cronies. Fruedenthal at least appears to give a crap about the common man and is more conservative than any CO Republican.

Offline duncan

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2008, 12:10:46 PM »
guess freedom is relative.

"Since moving to Crook County I'm free to:
Build a house whichever way I want with no zoning.
Ditto with "land use". There isn't any here."




Really and were might the nearest contractor and or building supply house might be? Cheyenne? or One of the many cities in SD?


"I needed no excavation permit."

You will soon, you need one in my county and you didn't five years ago. its just a matter of time.

I needed no building permit.

You will soon, you need one in my county and you didn't five years ago. its just a matter of time.

I needed no electrical permit.

Actually you do. The state has its very own electrical board filled with electrical inspectors who do nothing but run around the state to inspect the work of novices like you. I spent six years as an electrician and I worked in SW Wyoming near Kemmerer and you are required to have a lisence to work as a professional electrician. Do you have a lisence sir?

I needed no plumbing permit.

You will soon, you need one in my county and you didn't five years ago. its just a matter of time.

I needed no inspections of any kind for the structure (only for the septic system, which is controlled by the state).

Oh but you do for certain things other than septic and when those statist workers find out what you have been doing I pity you.

I live on a private road. I'm "free" to drink and drive on it (if I was foolish enough to).

So when you went to get your construction materials to build your home, or to get groceries, or go to the post office was it all done on a private road? Not likely and remember you are surrounded by the state no matter were you go in this country.

I OC my gun nearly every place I go in WY & SD. No one has ever freaked out over it.

So? I can do that in CO as well. You moved to WY so that you could brandish a gun around? That's a crime in this state as well as others. You can't carry it concealed in your car can you? But then you already knew this and so it begs the question as to why you didn't tell the others on the forum?

I can shoot from my deck without causing alarm from either the neighbors or law enforcement.

No you can't. You could possibly be arrested for an little thing called "Reckless Endagerment". I know this because I did the same thing and got a visit from a local copster and I live way out in the country.

The sheriff deputies wave when we pass each other on the highway. I wave back.

Your a coplover? How freedom minded is this? Why would you feel the need to wave at people who are represenatives of tyranny? People who live off of others wealth visa via the state? For the most part I leave them alone and they leave me alone. I don't look for trouble, but I won't kiss a copsters a$$ when he is trying to thug me.

The deputies start up pleasant conversation when they see me OCing rather than "GET ON THE GROUND!"

Why the need to talk to the copsters? Are you a police informant? Are you sucking up to them in hopes that they won't get you at a later date? Nothing liberty minded about being pals with the local copsters.

I'm free to look up at the Milky Way and the meteor showers without man made light pollution.

You can do that any where.

I'm able to drive around at night on the highways and almost never have to use my low beams due to oncoming traffic.

You can do that in many other places beside WY.

And I'm able to call or visit the local county offices, like the county clerk, treasurer, assessor, and DMV, and get polite, prompt, friendly service with a smile.

Why would you want to do this? I tend to avoid these sorts of people like a I would any plague.

This may not fit someone else's definition of being "free", but it's about the closest thing you'll EVER find in this country in the 21st century. Wyoming may not be perfect, but it's the closest thing I've found to heaven while living on earth.

No it isn't. This is my point WY ain't perfect and it ain't free. Wyoming will over time regress into the same kind of socialism that can be found in CA, CO and NY. Simply moving to WY won't cure the problem.


Offline duncan

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2008, 12:23:09 PM »
Sorry I didn't mean to post twice. Please delete one of the two posts for me.

"Where duncan misunderstands is that Wyoming is not a free state it is a place where freedom from the state is easier. (at least that is my take)"

This exactly what I understand, but it is only true for the time being. I would agree with those who say that Cheyenne is merely an extension of Ft. Collins, but the crap had now extended itself through out Laramie County and has eeked its way into Casper. These are the two largest cities in the state. Jackson and Lander are now a haven for leftists. If your here and you are here to stay fine, but you must fight for liberty. If you are thinking about moving here why waste your time when you can fight these statist in your own back yard.

I'm just an hour away from FC and I still fight the granola head every chance I get.

Mental Militia? I never saw you standing next to me in Denver with a handgun strapped to your hip in defiance of that Denver city ordinance.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/766963/posts

http://www.westword.com/2002-10-31/news/deeper-into-columbine/

http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20030718.htm

http://eatthestate.org/04-16/SmearingWTOProtests.htm

http://www.westword.com/2007-06-07/news/darren-morrison-s-virtual-aggression/

Offline MamaLiberty

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2008, 04:44:37 PM »
Good heavens, duncan... I did look very briefly at TMM, and I wonder if you are related to planetaryjim... Similar MO... and just as verbose.

Your negativity is deafening, but I've not seen a word about what you propose to fix all the horrors you talk about. Do you have anything to offer except negative crap and poorly veiled insults?
It's not that people are dumber, it's that stupidity used to be more painful.

Offline kylben

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2008, 06:20:41 PM »
Quote
Do you have anything to offer except negative crap and poorly veiled insults?

Shorter duncan:  I want my freedom now, now, now, now... stomps feet and balls fists.  Gimme it, it's mine!

Yes, I checked him out on TMM too... almost makes me sorry I gave him the benefit of the doubt earlier.  He's the kind of guy who is itching for a fight, but would rather incite somebody else to start it for him - and to do most of the fighting for him.  He doesn't want to work at getting his freedom, he wants to lash out at whoever doesn't just hand it to him, perfectly formed, on a silver platter. 

He'll find trouble all right, he's probably a regular magnet for it, and woe to anyone hanging around with him when he does.
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