New here with sincere questions...your help appreciated.

[OzarkSaints]

Hello all,

so here is our families situation in a nutshell...or 2.

We love WY land and the persona of the people; but often times that can be misleading as we found out after looking at land in CO and finding the vibe to be nice, but then researching the laws (home school/self defense/vaccinations/etc) led us to a much different conclusion...on one trip back we routed our way home through Cheyenne and then into Spearfish SD and my wife almost got out of the truck and almost refused to come back home with me saying she would happily wait with the dogs while I came home and packed everything up!

Now here is what we are wondering about....how free are things there in regards to property owner rights (we started looking at land and was shocked to find that the majority we have came across on-line have property owners associations, even in the Lusk region).....how high are property taxes generally?

Also, we of course know that no person can live totally by their own hands on their own land (perhaps not nobody, but we are not looking to be hermits in a hole in the side of a mountain...but would much prefer that if it came down to that or living in Uptown/Downtown area!).....but seriously, what is the reality of living off of your own land their? Meaning your own water supply, your own heating supply, growing your own food, etc.?

Most of the land we have found there has either zero, or close to zero, trees (heating fuel) and gets very, very little rainfall (growing food for the family--2 legged and 4 legged).

I truly hope that all goes well with our country, and I will do all that I can to make it so (actually, that of course is an overstatement--I would be shocked if any one of us do ALL that we can)....but the truth be told, I think that there is some serious bad times ahead that will last quite a while....how many of y'all could even come close to living off of your own land in WY without having supplies coming in from elsewhere (stocked up food not counting into the equation, cause it runs out eventually)?

And just so there is no confusion, I do not mean that last question in a demeaning manner; in fact, quite the opposite...I figure that if'n y'all can't make it off of your land there because of the physical characteristics, then who the hell could!

Also, one of the pieces of land we saw for sale in the Alcova region said that it was grandfathered in for RAM zoning, but new parcels have to be a minumum of 640 acres to be designated as RAM zoning!?!?!?

Now, I do not know the details of RAM zoning, but I can think of no other explanation for this 640 acre requirement than status quo from local ranchers/land baron type....maybe this is not the case, and that is why I am asking if any of y'all can enlighten me a bit here? 

For what it is worth, our bug out/opt out property that we own down in the Ozarks has simple laws on zoning, building permits, junk vehicles, livestock, wells, etc.....if you live outside the city limits, then there is none...at all...whatsoever.....unless you have less than 3 acres, then in that case you have to follow septic codes, but that is all.....the problems with it are non-existant...but the state (Missouri) is becoming increasingly liberal and the balance is going over the proverbial falls...and there is way to much population density for our tastes.........also, in MO you are protected from being charged if you protect yourself (Castle Doctrine)....am I misunderstanding in my research, or does WY not have this law (I assumed y'all did, but my wife saw online that you don't....was this info just not updated?)

Any help would be much appreciated, I know I threw a lot of questions up, but we simply want to make sure we don't move somewhere on an un-warranted pretext.

Thank y'all so much!

Regards,

OS

[KentuckyRifle]

Ozarksaints,

I understand what you are asking about here. I am coming from northern Tennessee and have had a lot of the same questions that you do. Here we have plenty of water, no type of zoning laws at all, a 300+ tree fruit orchard, can grow a big garden, and our 70 acres can support many more head of livestock than similar acreage out west. I think many of us see the importance of self-sufficiency in the coming years, and for those of us that are coming from a completely different type of area we could use some answers to questions like these.

I am getting ready to see if I can find a copy of Boston's book on Y2K to see if it contains any information that may be helpful, but like you I am VERY interested in seeing what some of the folks already out there have to say about this.

[MANUMIT]

Exactly some of our same questions way back in our process...in a similar thread,

http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=4320.msg31272#msg31272

For us it came down to personal expectations, abilities and logistics...even if we could HAVE self-sufficient land supporting a family/group on less acreage back east, can we truly expect to securely plant, harvest and store crops and livestock IF the vast majority of folks in our immediate area (+/- 10 mile radius) DO NOT think and act likewise?

Picture your acreage is the only island of high ground...and the water starts rising.  Instead of me looking for a mound with the highest elevation around, I'd rather look out my window to see all my neighbors building with fill dirt or at least stilts down to bedrock for their foundations...with pumps, sandbags, bottled water standing by just-in-case.

MANUMIT

[manfromnevada]

Many of these topics and questions have been discussed before. I suggest that rather than rehash the same old advice, you look through some of the topics in question.

Mac

[HardwareHank]

Now here is what we are wondering about....how free are things there in regards to property owner rights (we started looking at land and was shocked to find that the majority we have came across on-line have property owners associations, even in the Lusk region).....

I live in Park County. Yes... there are zoning laws, but very seldom enforced. They are there not to inhibit someone, but to protect county taxpayers from the actions of the irresponsible. Not far from where I live.. a newcomer bought 20 acres of land and parked a camper on it. Now.. in Park County, zoning laws say you can't live in a camper for more than a couple years, while you are constructing a permanent residence. The county looked at his place and declined to enforce the zoning rules... He wasn't hurting anyone, so they left him alone.

 So what does the guy do? You got it... He got an inch and wanted a mile. Spring comes and instead of digging a proper septic, he just digs a big hole and runs his raw sewage into it, so the neighbors could enjoy the odor and the flies. Then he did what all newcomers do... bought a couple old nags which promptly devoured every plant 'cept the prickly pear and sage... so when the wind kicks up, everyone can savor the taste of powdered horse-crap on their tacos. Yassuh... He wasn't gonna let some gubmint fella tell HIM what he could do with his proputee. Besides.. given the soil and rainfall... it will only take about 125 years for the land to recover.

So relax... Folks can have all the junk cars, railroad ties, horse-turds and hangnails on their property that they want. Don't worry about having some zoning laws enforced... Just don't push your neighbor too far.

Now.. regarding the above-described fellow. Under Wyoming law... regardless of covenants, zoning laws or the phase of the moon... You can sue your neighbor if his actions inhibit your enjoyment of your peoperty and the value thereof. Someone finally got tired of his bad-neighbor policy... slapped a lein on his property and sued for loss of value. The other option available to neighbors is to simply hand out a couple pounds of whup-ass rather than going to the expense of an attorney.

Lesson is... No-one is gonna be too concerned about what you do on your land... up to the point it starts causing them issues with what it does to their place. Simple good neighbor policy.

[Boston]

There are, no doubt, great land deals down South.
But, what other prices are you paying for living there?
You'll have to work out all the math, and then decide.

Personally, I don't mind a higher "cover charge" for "cheaper drinks."

Boston

[wyomiles]

OzarkSaints,

Well I lived in a subdivision in the city of Rock Springs for many years.  Did not have any trouble with zoning or neighbors. I think we were all from the same cloth, more or less. That was a few years back and could be a little different now but would depend on the town.
My lot was 1/2 acre. The front yard was an average grass covered square with a few shrubs and trees. Out back I created a large garden. I planted all sorts of stuff and canned a bit too. I had a small greenhouse that added a few weeks to the season. I have no doubt that a person who knows something about gardening, who lives on a few acres with a good water supply, would be able to feed a few folks each year. The key in Wyoming is water , mulch and green houses.
Wyoming has had it's share of pioneers, all of whom had to feed themselves. They had gardens and farms just like you dream of.
So look for a nice piece of land ,with water . Start improving the soil and I think you will doo just fine.

[judithevans]

Welcome! I live in central WY--Fremont Co, and have 3 ac.  No we can't feed ourselves without some outside supply, but there are lots of cattle and other livestock here, and this yr i was able to scrounge cheap feed for my poultry to plan ahead and reduce dependence on outside supply.  Also our main fuel supply is to keep the well going in SHTF, and we do have to go to the mountains for a wood supply.  This is not an easy country to live in, but its home.  And it has a long history of independence.  But the real secret to survival will be to listen to the Creator and go and do what he says to!  And if  He says come or go you had better listen and obey.  Sewing dove

[bobcat]

But the real secret to survival will be to listen to the Creator and go and do what he says to!  And if  He says come or go you had better listen and obey.

Well said!

[wyprairielady]

Hey OzarkSaints!
Just a little FYI on that Alcova property....there are snakes out that way, lots of 'em.  Alcova is a lake and has water, but aside from the Platte River, not much water in that country.

[manfromnevada]

So what are we to think of people who post once, asking all kinds of questions, never to reply even within the same thread?
Does anyone think that OS is listening?

Mac

[MamaLiberty]

So what are we to think of people who post once, asking all kinds of questions, never to reply even within the same thread?
Does anyone think that OS is listening?

Who knows? All we can do is try to respond. Some folks don't even look at their email every day... I know, shocking. LOL If he comes back, well and good. If he doesn't, maybe our answers will help someone else. You just never know.

[Boston]

Thanks, Mac, for the question I was also thinking,
and thanks, MamaLiberty, for the best answer to it.

Boston

[jubal]

SNAKES??..........Well, I've found snakes wherever in Wyoming. Grew up in Nevada, they got snakes too. You got snakes, I got snakes. I think pretty much everybodies got snakes.

[wyprairielady]

Yep. there are snakes everywhere....even on the top of Devils Tower!!!  Nasty, vile, scary, little creatures!!!!  I love winter because they go into their little holes and don't come out until the first thunderstorm.  Pigs- they are the critters to have. they eat snakes.  Too bad mongooses are not legal here.