Author Topic: Scraping the muck off your soul  (Read 31466 times)

Offline Terence

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2010, 01:13:04 PM »
As a man in a similar situation to Novak I admire his efforts but
completely disagree with his approach and conclusions.

Men, if your approach with your wife is to set Wyoming up as a false choice between
freedom and family then you will fail. Allowing her to frame the issue that way is equally
false.

When my wife asks about Wyoming I tell her the truth: "I love you, will never
do anything to jeopardize our family and am working hard and smart to increase
the quality of our lives on every front. Everything I have planned will
only provide more abundance and choice for our lives and never less.
"

I'd be happy to provide more detail but need to unpack from a long trip, right now.

Terence
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 06:56:56 PM by Terence »
Liberty is “Stolen” by your own signature. Find the adhesion contracts and deal with them.

Offline jubal

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2010, 09:42:17 PM »


   Your spouse has made HER decision. She cares not what your desires are, only hers. That to me is extremely SELFISH, especially for your family and the liberty you wish for your children and their future in a liberty free environment. I have extreme sadness for you and your children and your desires for their future as to their free and unencomboured minds which you wish to show them the liberty which is available on this planet. It is now your decision to choose. I, or I believe no one on this forum will tell you what to do. But, I believe in your own mind you know exactly what must be done. It is what you find in your backbone the truth of your decision what is best for your children, regardless of the consequences.
"
When planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary".
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Offline Stratispho

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2010, 12:23:16 PM »
Sry to hear that she didn't like Wy. Maybe she just needs more time to open up to the ideas of liberty and to realize that where you're at isn't going to cut it. I agree with you though, family comes first, some hopefully you don't give up and can keep weedling away at her.

I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all, and pledge perpetual opposition to the Republic of the United States, and to the control and tyranny for which it stands.

Offline Novak

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2010, 09:34:20 PM »
hopefully you don't give up and can keep weedling away at her.

Make no mistake, I will keep weedling away at her.  When I said that my options were to "lose my family or lose my dream of moving to Wyoming" I did not mean to imply that I was giving up my dream of moving to Wyoming.  I'm just giving up my dream of moving there now.

I am emigrating from New York in the very near future - that much my wife has grudgingly agreed to.  Prior to this trip, I had hoped that my destination would be Wyoming.  Since my wife has eliminated that possibility, it appears that I'm going to end up in Pennsylvania, the only other state she has been willing to consider.  (Most of her family is in Pennsylvania, and it's less than an hour from where we currently live.)

Even though Pennsylvania is better than New York, it still lacks the culture of freedom and self-reliance that seems to be most common in Wyoming.  If I do my job as a father and imbue my children with a desire for freedom and self-reliance, I believe that they will come to the same conclusion that I have: that Wyoming is the place for people like us.

Even if I can't live in Wyoming, I can take my children there as often as possible.  I have little doubt that, over time, they'll come to love it as I do.  One day, after a week of hunting, fishing, or hiking there, my wife will tell us that it's time to go home.  When the other four of us inform her that we don't want to leave, she may find it harder to justify her position.
"I don't just want gun rights... I want individual liberty, a culture of self-reliance...I want the whole bloody thing." -Kim du Toit

Offline jubal

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2010, 10:43:03 PM »


   I do believe you will accomplish your goal for your family. Your commitment sounds that it has grit in it. I believe you have the substance and texture to succeed in this endeavor.

                                                                    All the Best
                                                                        Jubal
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When planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary".
 Thomas Paine

Offline Tripwire

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2010, 08:13:26 AM »
I really hate to say this.. but you might fall back on the Liberal battle cry.."BUT it for the Children!!" lets see... in one had you have your kids exposed to a culture of baggy pants, hats on backward, gangs, piss poor schools with liberal teachers.... or you can have them in a smaller school, being taught hopefully by a less liberal teacher.. or home schooled. fresh air ,few to zero gang influences , and face it, your kids are your future, your legacy , are they better off back there or out West?...

The argument of living near her family is a weak one, how many of them would uproot their lives to move close to her?.. I'm the only one in my family to break away for the old roots, I went out and saw the world.. none of them have made it more then 300 miles from where they were born.. couldn't leave the tit I guess..

To me, moving from NY to PA would be like leaving Haiti for Cuba... better maybe but at what cost?.... I'd rather live in a place where every vehicle that passes you has folks who wave at you... even when they don't know you!..

I can't say I feel your pain... because I haven't ever experienced it.. but I hope it all works out for you and your family... good luck..
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Offline jubal

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2010, 02:04:38 PM »



   Well said Tripwire.
"
When planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary".
 Thomas Paine

Offline donnie-paul

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2010, 12:38:41 PM »
I think she was intimidated  

"intimidated" I'm sorry she feels that way. I'm in your shoes. The person I most care about in this world is "against the WY. cold", "will have to leave her 86 yr old mother", "will have to leave her 25 yr old job" & I myself am afraid I'll have to leave her! I am also in NY, where we will now have status Cuomo. Good Luck in your decision! I know it will be a hard one.
"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains, and we never even know we have the key" The Eagles
"Of course, secession will be necessary. We can't have the feds telling us what to do. Bad enough that after secession, the states will still want to do the same thing"  Paul Bonneau STR

Offline Terence

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2010, 05:09:28 PM »

The world is full of people who want authority without responsibility.
And when their decisions turn out to be wrong they'll blame everyone but themselves
for the consequences.

"You should have insisted" or "It's not my fault" or "Why did you let me do that?"
they'll say.

Just take a few steps per week towards a realistic goal. And, to your wife, try proposing
it in terms other than all or nothing and work from there.

Terence

P.S., Hear, Hear Jubal and Tripwire.
Liberty is “Stolen” by your own signature. Find the adhesion contracts and deal with them.

Offline leeanndavis

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2010, 07:08:17 PM »
Maybe a visit during the summer Jam would be good.  We moved here with our 3 kids this summer from PA.  We moved away from family and arrived here knowing nobody.  All of the FSWers have been wonderful and friendly.  Suddenly, leaving family isn't that bad.  Having a community and support group that has similar opinions and feels as we do about things is amazing!  We have never had that before and it is very refreshing.  Having actually met some of the women from the forum this past week I can confirm that they do not bite and are all very friendly. 

2 years ago I didn't know anything about this forum or the FSW project.  I thought that my husband was a bit crazy.  The idea of grabbing or family and hauling out to WY would have been ridiculous!  But then, I didn't know anything about Wyoming yet.  We were living in Albert and drove through WY on our way to visit family back east.  It was gorgeous here!!!!!  Then we were forced to move back to PA.  HORROR!!!  I hated it.  There were no jobs.  Everything was up in the air.  It was unbelievable that Jef finally got a job and we were pretty happy about it...  but the pay stunk!  Hardly enough for the gas money it took to drive there and back everyday.  In one week there were 7 murders within 6 miles of our house (and those are only the ones that made the news.).  That same week I drove past a drug bust/murder scene with my children.  That never made it into the news.  A couple of weeks later a guy walked into my home and started hugging me and the children.  That was the day that I changed my mind about gun ownership.  So, when things finally were finally settled for me to stay in the US we were more than eager to move. 

For 2 years Jef had been planting little tidbits about the FSW project into conversation.  "But WY is the sticks!"  "They have Casper, and Gillette, Laramie...."  When we drove through I got to see first hand that people actually live here.  lol  It sounds so funny to me now.  I had spent so much time sitting at home with the kids in a place where I didn't dare to take them to the park down the road alone, so Jef encouraged me to check out the forum just to read the women's circle.  It took a few days, but I finally did and really liked it.  Wyoming was quickly becoming an escape from things that I did NOT want our children exposed to.  I chose to join the forum.

2 years in the making and I have gone from totally opposed to Wyoming to living here.  We now have opportunities for ourselves and our children.  If our family want to see us as much as we want to see them, then they will come to visit.  My mother has already visited and my brother-in-law helped with the move.  My mother-in-law and father-in-law are both planning trips once the snow is gone.  :)

All of this to say that there is hope and some wives do come around and really enjoy living in Wyoming in the end.  I would never want to move back now.  Family comes first.  I would have gone with Jef to anywhere in the world.  I'm really glad that Wyoming was the place with the jobs and the freedom.  We are very fortunate.  I hope that with time you will have the opportunity to join us here. 

L

Offline jscottdavis04

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2010, 09:18:10 PM »
I think it's interesting that this thread is "scraping the muck off your soul." As I told someone at the Thanksgiving event, going back to PA (I'm from Wilkes-Barre/Scranton) completely killed my soul! Moving back West this year was incredibly therapeutic for me... and I believe the healing process necessary after those 10 long months in hell has yet come to an end. If you put aside all the crime, the unemployment/bad-paying jobs and the outrageous cost of living (maybe not from a NY perspective, but still more than double what utilities and other essentials cost out here), it's still the culture--or lack thereof--that really killed me. It was just horrible... I am not trying to exaggerate.

The thing is, most people don't see it like that. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that those who look at Wyoming as an empty, barren waste-land have never lived out West and have never had the chance to adjust to the culture here (i.e. heal their souls). This process for my wife and I started when we lived in Alberta--it was supposed to be a fun adventure for us; one that was supposed to end with us moving back to Ontario after college. Within a week of moving to Alberta, I had an inkling that the West was a special place. After 2 years in Alberta, we went back East to visit our family in Ontario and Pennsylvania and we couldn't wait to get back home--the East was not and never could be home any longer. I, too, was one of those persons who thought I could never live in a place without trees. Now, I hate trees. I love the prairie and I love the wind. Driving from Rock Springs to Sundance and back this week gave me a chance to rediscover the incredible, breath-taking beauty of the prairies and mountains. Aside from that, it's the people and the culture that really makes this part of the continent home for me. I don't even like calling businesses that have call centers out East (like my bank) because their reps are so damn Eastern! I don't know if I could adequately express what makes someone Eastern (this type of personality is certainly not restricted to any geographic location, but the coasts generally have a nauseating concentration of them), but I'm sure you know what I mean, Novak.

Our situation was very different from yours. Moving out West made both my wife and I see the light (the next logical step was moving from "Montana-light" to the real deal down here in Wyoming). I know if you guys managed to spend enough time out this way your wife would go through some severe culture shock upon returning to PA. Once you've seen the light, you can never return to your previous ignorance.

Depending on your wife's feelings about various issues, one thing I would point out are the gun laws in PA. They are fairly symptomatic of the general mindset toward a large number of other things in that state: For instance, you cannot use force against someone who breaks into your home unless they have committed a felony against you or a member of your family (i.e. assault, rape, kidnapping, etc.). Basically, you can't fire at a person who has broken into your home unless you were fired upon. Sure, people will tell you the whole thing about if you shoot them and drag them back inside it's all OK... but if you look at the laws on the books (and the AGs in many counties in PA who enforce those laws) shooting a poor, innocent criminal who has broken into your home will get you up on murder charges. Criminals have rights, too. This is one of the many things we love about Wyoming: the recent Castle Doctrine bill doesn't require us to become victims before we are allowed to protect ourselves and our children. This isn't something merely theoretical--we had many, many scary situations in our own home living in a small town outside Wilkes-Barre. I was prepared to face prison time if it meant protecting my family, but no one in a "free" country should be forced to make such a choice! Pennsylvania was hardly any better than Canada in regard to self-defense. In addition to being threatened by theft and possibly violence in our own home, I was genuinely frightened to go many places in downtown Wilkes-Barre or Scranton at any time of the day. Another time, many of the buildings near where I worked in Hazleton were being evacuated and others were forced to take refuge in the basement to avoid being hit by stray automatic gunfire while two gangs had a small turf war. All the police could do was tell people to hide--the criminals out-number and out-gun the police in northeast PA and the individual citizen is legally prohibited from defending themselves from agression. Some place!

Now, that being said, your wife and her relatives and most of my relatives would probably say I sound like a paranoid kook. Well, they've never lived in a place where they don't have to be afraid to walk down an alley after dark, they've never lived in a place where your neighbors and the random passer-by are friendly acquaintances rather than potential threats. Humans can learn to live in all kinds of adverse situations and maybe even come to think that those things are normal facts of life that must simply be dealt with. It doesn't need to be that way, but it might take a prolonged "vacation" out here and some time spent with FSWers to help her (and you) begin the healing process.

"We exhibit to mankind the remarkable spectacle of a people attacked by unprovoked enemies, without any imputation or even suspicion of offence. They boast of their privileges and civilization, and yet proffer no milder conditions than servitude or death."
-The Continental Congress, 1775

Offline Boston

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2010, 11:21:43 AM »
Interesting thread!

Novak, from what I've seen, many FSWers move out here as much for the FSWers
as they do for Wyoming itself.  It's a nice package deal.  The June 2011 FSW Jam
will be a great opp to meet dozens of us in a fun and relaxed setting.  No pressure
to move, though, will be felt -- I assure you.  We're not high-pressure sales men about it.

___________

Quote
When my wife asks about Wyoming I tell her the truth: "I love you, will never
do anything to jeopardize our family and am working hard and smart to increase
the quality of our lives on every front. Everything I have planned will
only provide more abundance and choice for our lives and never less."

Well put, Terence.

Boston

adambomb

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2010, 10:13:12 AM »
I don't know if I could adequately express what makes someone Eastern (this type of personality is certainly not restricted to any geographic location, but the coasts generally have a nauseating concentration of them), but I'm sure you know what I mean, Novak.

A former roommate who went to University of Wisconsin-Madison told me about a name they had for the influx of people who came there from both coasts:  "coasties."

Coasties can be identified by a generally stuck-up attitude and un-deserved sense of accomplishment.  They will often consider themselves automatically smarter than people who come from "less advanced  ::)" parts of the country.

Offline cody

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2010, 10:28:55 PM »
Novak,

I feel like a kindred spirit. I have family, kids grand kids and friends in MN. I too will make the trip out to WY and investigate and I may also make the case to my sweetie. She will not increase the distance from the kids and grandkids easily. I suspect the most likely scenario is to buy some place and vacation out there, then maybe retire there after a few years of acclimating.  Moving to WY in stages, not the least of which will be mental.

enJoy,
Cody
Chance favors the prepared

Offline Dodd

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Re: Scraping the muck off your soul
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2011, 09:06:13 PM »
Fellow Patriots,

Thank you for such a welcoming forum. What a wealth of information as well!

This is my 1st post as I just joined the Free State Forum today. This seemed a fitting thread for me to start in as I currently live behind enemy lines in San Francisco, PRC. Yep, carrying privately in the inner city teaming with gun phobic socialists, Drug dealers and thugs has been interesting to say the least. Just an invisible Sheepdog...a silent guardian watching over the nice people I come across, not to mention my own 6.

Well, about me... I'm 30, single, former Marine, healthy, fit, reader of Boston's for 10 years. I just read Molon Labe! and One Nation Under Surveillance this year. Um, Just finished Matthew Bracken's “Enemies” Trilogy as well, which I loved and highly recommend. But Boston's books have really made such a huge difference. That Big Green book gets read and re-read after close to 10 years!

I'm really a humble, trainable student and seeker of knowledge-always have been. A practical blend of maverick and team player. I'm currently working and going to college, using my G.I. Bill to invest in useful skills for the future. In August I begin EMT training full time and then on to Paramedic training. Would love to get some Tactical Combat Casualty Care training as well.
I've developed some other very specialized skills too and I hope to bring a lot to the table. I had training planned for the next 2 years as I figured I would have about that long depending on legality of arms ownership going downhill. Toward the end of Barry's 2nd term.

However, with the dollar rapidly heading for a crash and burn (a year at the most. I'll post a link to an illuminating analysis of the economy I recently saw. It dovetails nicely with Alex Jones' Fall of the Republic.) I'm scrambling to get together all of the things that very soon will be hard to come by at any price. Tools, ammo, gear and self sufficiency stuff. Really what I've been dying to do with my $ all along so it's pretty fun. A different type of investment if you will.

It is stressful living where I do. To tell you the truth I hate the idea of G.O.O.D. when the riots start here almost as much as I hate living here. There are packs wolves roaming this city who need a hammer dropped on them. Hard. And a lot of nice, fashionable, clueless people who will have horrible misfortune befall them. I feel guilty about being so prepared and leaving, at the the same time I dispise the G.D. liberals here. But this will be no place to be trapped and that I feel is the reality.

I am hopeful and grateful every day though. I'm hoping to find a family and a real purpose in Wyoming. And I thank God for Boston and all of you. Semper Fidelis. Who Dares Wins. Molon Labe.