Septic System Construction

[FDNYLiberty]

I was wondering what the (WEPA) process / cost is for having a septic system put in.

I'm considering buying some land and building a home (just "considering" at this point - I just may get lucky and find that "perfect" home out there for sale) so I want to try to figure this cost in if I construct versus buying a pre-existing home.

I suspect that the most common (standard) size for residential uses a 500 gallon septic tank. 

Can anyone assist me with some first-hand knowledge about this process and the costs?

Thanks.

FDNYLiberty

[clemmac]

I Googled "WEPA" and still don't know what "WEPA" means ?

Clem

[manfromnevada]

Been there, done that, myself, without any help.
Simple. Easy.
In Crook County you can pick up a packet of info at the county building. I think you can get it on like at the
WY DEQ (dept of enviro quality).
Here:
http://deq.state.wy.us/wqd/www/Permitting/Pages/SMWW/smallwastewater.asp

If you get a tank listed on their website (WY approved) then it's a piece of cake. I bought mine and had it delivered from Belle Fourche. Mine was 1,000 g and two compartments. More than I needed.

The design of the leachfield can be done by anyone with a 4 function calculator and 5 neurons. Figure how many bathrooms gives how many gal/day of effluent (?). Then you dig a few sample test holes and determine the absorption. This gives you the total absorption requirement and hence the length of the pipe. I used "hi tech" stuff which requires NO backfill of rock since rock up here is expensive to transport.

Then you draw a little picture showing your proposed plan with your calculations and send it off. Can take about 4 weeks for approval.

Then you just dig the hole for the tank, the trenches for the leachfield and insert everything BUT DON'T COVER IT UP. Crook sends a guy out just to insure that you did what you said you would do. Then you fill it in. The WY fee is only about $25 if anything. The county charges $300 for their labor to come out and inspect.

Mac

[bobcat]

Think he is suggesting Wyoming EPA, which is the Wyoming DEQ

edit:
Ok, Mac beat me to it.

I actually saw Mac's system during construction and it is a really slick design.  A neat alternative to the standard cast cement septic tank, distribution box and 4 inch diameter and very long fingers typically used...

[FDNYLiberty]

Think he is suggesting Wyoming EPA, which is the Wyoming DEQ

That is what I meant by "WEPA", correct-a-mundo....

Thanks manfromnevada for that great and specific information. I may take you up on a "lesson" on How to Do-it-yourself if/when I decide to build.

Has anybody out there had a septic system installed by a company that does such work? Costs?

Thanks again folks.

[manfromnevada]

This is the type of material I used:
http://www.ads-pipe.com/en/product_static/onsitebionarrowchambwork.html

There's even a conversion factor allowed on the WY DEQ website for this kind of material. You can use less total footage than with the standard 4" perf pipe.

BTW, I'd be leery of contractors. Spoken to several in the area that will purposefully cheat to allow you to use less pipe. All you're doing is cutting your own throat. Had one that suggested that instead of presoaking the ground before doing the absorption test (as required) that you "get much better results if you leave it dry."

Mac

[bobcat]

This is the type of material I used:
http://www.ads-pipe.com/en/product_static/onsitebionarrowchambwork.html

There's even a conversion factor allowed on the WY DEQ website for this kind of material. You can use less total footage than with the standard 4" perf pipe.

BTW, I'd be leery of contractors. Spoken to several in the area that will purposefully cheat to allow you to use less pipe. All you're doing is cutting your own throat. Had one that suggested that instead of presoaking the ground before doing the absorption test (as required) that you "get much better results if you leave it dry."

Mac

That sounds a bit scary.  Nothing worse than having a septic system fail in the dead of winter and being forced to dig it up until the problem is found.  Been there, done that.  It ain't fun.  The only good thing about winter is that the smell isn't as bad as in sun drenched warm weather.

Rule ONE on septic systems is to build it bigger than necessary, never, ever smaller.  I've lived on septic systems nearly my entire life and seen my share of them fail.  Soil composition is a *very* big element in determining the correct design.  Skimp on this as Mac alludes to and you will be digging it up, sooner than later, guaranteed.  Keep in mind that the moment these systems start being used, degredation starts.  Perforated pipe gets clogged here and there.  The gravel around the perf pipe gets a little clogged.  No matter if the septic tank is working right or not.  Pretty soon, total efficiency takes a hit and you work with less and less finger system flow until  -Uh-oh.  Honey, did you notice that the toilet isn't flushing?  Keep all trees and bushes away.

It's a prime example of do it right the first time.  -And be sure you know what you are putting down the drain and possible implications.  The forgiving city sewer it ain't.

The clown that suggests he can save you money on the initial install *knows* it is going to crap out, or is that crap in?  He's just hoping you'll call him to come and fix it!!

[Crappiewy]

Yes, use the biggest tank that you can afford. 3 chamber if possible but never a single chamber. 2000 gallons if you can get it, The poly tanks are great. Get one you can drive over. Some arent rated for that and well, accidents do happen. Im not for modern inventions when it comes to something like leach lines. What happens later when you have a clog or accidently damage it and need to replace it. Is the company still in business?

[manfromnevada]

There's something to be said for the old standard tried and true method.
But then again that eliminates any improvements . . .

I bought a standard concrete tank. I know it's not going to collapse. One time purchase. I had heard some bad things about the poly tanks.

Similar to what bobcat had written, my neighbor's leachfield "failed" two springs ago during the rainy season. The contractor installed it in a low area where there were springs (unknown to anyone). The "honey, the toilet isn't flushing" moment came and for over a month they were using the woods for their toilet and taking sponge baths. He had the tank pumped and within 24 hours it was full again from water backflowing from the leachfield. Then entire system had to be abandoned and a new one put in elsewhere. It cost him BIG money since everything had to be dug deeply (due to a basement drain) and shoring had to be installed while the crew worked.

Re: putting stuff down the drain, I had always heard that using a garbage disposal improperly (excessively) can really add a lot of load to a system. So we opted not to have on in our house. We use little screen basket inserts in the kitchen sink and after doing dishes each night (we don't use the dishwasher) we dump the baskets out in the trash can. I'll be long dead (or moved) before we ever need this tank pumped out!

Mac

[manfromnevada]

Clarification:
It appears that there is NO fee for the septic application.
Also, it appears that Crook County no longer participates in the "delegated county" program. At least not according to DEQ website.
I heard that the guy who used to do the inspections (Fred Duncan) was let go for "lack of funds" in the county. He told me this himself at a chance meeting at Wal Mart this summer. He said, "Yeah, 'you' guys finally got your way." I suppose he was referring to keeping taxes and spending down.

The forms may seem involved, but anyone can do it (even me). Pretty straight forward. Just some calculations and common sense (don't put your leachfield next to your well, next to a creek, next to a ravine, or next to your property line).

A former FSW member had attended a DEQ one day workshop and passed along some tips to me as well as the confidence that I could do it myself. The website is much improved in the last four years since I installed my system. A few requirements have been added (cleanouts at certain points), but it's essentially the same. I'd be willing to pass along any useful experience if anyone here actually goes forward and installs their own. At a minimum, you need to watch your contractor closely and make sure they are doing it right.

Mac

[bobcat]

<snip>
Also, it appears that Crook County no longer participates in the "delegated county" program. At least not according to DEQ website.
I heard that the guy who used to do the inspections (Fred Duncan) was let go for "lack of funds" in the county. He told me this himself at a chance meeting at Wal Mart this summer. He said, "Yeah, 'you' guys finally got your way." I suppose he was referring to keeping taxes and spending down. The forms may seem involved, but anyone can do it (even me). Pretty straight forward. Just some calculations and common sense (don't put your leachfield next to your well, next to a creek, next to a ravine, or next to your property line).

Mac

FDNY:excuse the hijack for a moment, as Mac has hit on an important point.  This is a lesson that local political participation and voting *does* work.  For those that think all is lost and won't vote, please think again and focus on local and state.
Yeeeeeehaaaaw!   Now that report makes my day/week/month...  Mr. D. was, well, an arrogant bunglecrat.  I've heard him for myself telling a small group of 'concerned citizens' that it was up to the county/him what you did with your property, not you the property owner.  My wife grabbed my shirt to hold me in my seat...  She knew I was boiling at such a remark.  Besides that comment, there were others that reinforced...  It was almost enough to keep me from even considering General Crook county.  I've been through the advent of his type where I live now and it hasn't been pretty.  Once these things start, they only get worse-unless significant and consistent pressure is put on county commissioners.  I could talk volumes about it.

Knowing that at least one of the commissioners that wanted a 'planner' got voted out (maybe more? not sure) and the remaining fellows said enough was enough and cut funding, is exactly how it's done.  Some of you may recall that I had commented in a thread on this when the general out of control planner issue was heating up.  And that the way to get rid of said planner was to pressure the commissioners as they provide the funding and the planner reports to them?  Exactimundo.  Congrats folks of Crook, you've done well.  Now, just make sure the possition of planner and his 'assistant are *eliminated*.  A county of 8000 really doesn't need such a position(s).  Keep the pressure on the commissioners to keep expenses down!  And more importantly know something about where a commissioner candidate stands on important issues like this.

[Crappiewy]

Crook county only gets around 6 million in revenue. Great isnt it. 

I had a 2 bedroom house in California That was built around 1902. The guy who built it built the septic system and made a 3000 gallon tank from cinderblock and plaster and a leachfield from clay pipe. A hundred years later there had never been an issue with the system. I wanted to put a addition on the house so Had to get a permit. They sent out someone from the health department to take a look at the existing system and said that it had never been inspected before and didnt have an operating permit issued by his office so he would have to red tag the house untill I replaced the existing system with a new system. Red tag means condemed....
I fought with them for 2 years and had everyone you could imagine come out and look at it. The engineers all said it was fine but the health department was stuck on the fact that a permit wasent issued from them for the initial construction. The fact that they didnt exist untill 70 years after the system was built was irrevelant to them...
I finally won after much expence and wasted time and the guy who started all the hassle was promoted to the operations officer of the LA county health department.

What a Joke....

[bobcat]

Even $6MM seems too much, but then there are publik skrewls and such...

So this begs the question, who and how does one go about getting an inspection of a new septic system in Crook Cty now?

[Crappiewy]

Here is the crook county budget.

Im not sure who you call but Ill find out. I know that where I live the DEQ people dont come around anymore to inspect our system.

[manfromnevada]

According to the DEQ website, if you don't live in a "delegated" county, then there is NO inspection whatsoever.
See item # 6 of this page:
http://deq.state.wy.us/wqd/www/Permitting/Pages/SMWW/smallwastewater.asp

Also from that page:
Is an inspection required?
DEQ does not require inspections of septic systems. However, the County may require an inspection prior to backfill. Please contact your County to determine if an inspection is required.


I suppose one would have to call the county to see what the current situation is.

Mac