Facts vs. Fiction - a specific question

[username]

I wanted to start a new thread on this because it differs greatly in nature from my other post "Utah Looking at Wyoming".  [They] say you never know until you ask... so, I would like to query two items that are contrasted between Royce, and Rand, and Heilein's works... as all three authors seem to be popular among the FSW movement.

Hedonism vs. Morality (specifically homophobia)
Theism vs. Atheism (specifically Christianity)

Most unfortunately neither Ms. Rand, nor Mr. Heinlein are with us any longer, but Mr. Royce, I know you are on this forum so maybe you are most qualified to answer directly regarding your work(s).  You go into lugubrious pro-Christian / anti-gay detail in your "Playboy Interview with James Preston" at the end of Molon Labe.

How common of a representation is that among the FSW movement; which would otherwise force these minority elements to "hole up out in the woods" abiding only literally the "live and let live" theory?  Are are you [all] truly accepting of anyone who embraces freedom, or are there a few strings attached?

Respectfully,
JP + wife and family

[Jackpot]

I cant answer for this group as I am not a member, just a current resident of Wyoming and have been for awhile.....almost 20 years. 

 If a man wants a man in his bed than thats not my business.  If he wants to marry that man, it doesnt matter to me.  If that same man wants to worship a golden calf on the alter of a palm tree on winter solstice than thats cool.  As long as that man doesnt try and force any of that crap on me......than were cool.  Im not anti-gay, anti-religion or anything like that, but......I will slap the hell out of anyone that tries to force any of that crap on me.

Once again I cant answer for the FSW movement but i wouldnt be surprised alot if many here share the same views.  Than again, different strokes for different folks.

[kylben]

I agree with Jackpot.  username, I haven't read the Appendix to Molon Labe recently enough to comment specifically, but are you sure you're not confusing being opposed to the radical gay political agenda with being anti-human-rights-of-gay-people?  I have to ask, because there's a lot of people out there that take the former to mean the latter.

[Beulahtrash]

I cant answer for this group as I am not a member, just a current resident of Wyoming and have been for awhile.....almost 20 years. 

 If a man wants a man in his bed than thats not my business.  If he wants to marry that man, it doesnt matter to me.  If that same man wants to worship a golden calf on the alter of a palm tree on winter solstice than thats cool.  As long as that man doesnt try and force any of that crap on me......than were cool.  Im not anti-gay, anti-religion or anything like that, but......I will slap the hell out of anyone that tries to force any of that crap on me.

Once again I cant answer for the FSW movement but i wouldnt be surprised alot if many here share the same views. 

That about covers my thoughts, too. Well said Jackpot. I for one don't fall into the whole, "You can't be for freedom because you don't have X and therefore no reason to fight for freedom." (x = any single or combination of the following: a wife, any desire to have a wife, kids, any disire to have kids, religious beliefs, BIG L libertarian mindset, morals)

[wyomiles]

I agree with Jackpot, stay out of my business and I will stay out of yours. If you are there to defend me from the state, when the time comes,  than I will be there to defend you.

I think somewhere in those Christian teachings it says love one another...no matter what.

[username]

@kylben,  Well, not being gay myself I don't proclaim to know every motivation of those who actively rally for gay rights... but my interpretation of it seems to be based on my observations of the political agenda striving for the human rights.  So, albeit some may draw a distinction between a radical political agenda vs. their goal of human-rights; I personally see them as one and the same, regardless of the platform (Sexual Preference, Race, Religion, Pro-Choice / Pro-Life, etc).

It somewhat dilutes my question though, my point being to gain an understanding if the overall consensus of FSW Members regarding Atheists and Homosexuals is one of "open acceptance", or "thinly tolerated"?  It may seem like semantics, but for those members of society who are one or the other or both (including many of my family and friends), there really is a chasm between the two camps and I'm interested to know how the group regards it.

What it really boils down to is that if a group of people aren't going to accept my friends and family, chances are good they won't really accept me either, even though I may fit their check-list of acceptable lifestyes.

It's not necessarily an FSW deal-breaker for me one way or the other -- I'm just curious.

[Rich]

The Radical Gay agenda, The radical, animal,commie,socialist,enviro,globalwarming,
or whatever leftist,or extremist AGENDAS ARE NOT TOLERATED BY ME!!!

ALL of these AGENDAs Want the Govt to Force Me at the point of a Gun to
Accept THEIR version of what THEY want to IMPOSE on ME!


This Is my Agenda:


And if you don't like that, and decide you want some "Special" Rights...
File a complaint Here>



Rich

[MamaLiberty]

I think the "radical political agenda" and "human rights" is a vast chasm and can't be ignored.

Human rights are those to life and liberty, which includes private property and free association. Every human being on the planet has the exact same rights.

The radical political agenda of so many groups, such as "gays," is the demand that they are "due" and MUST be given special consideration over and above their basic human rights, and that everyone else MUST be forced to accept those phony "rights" - usually at the cost of their own.

The latter is not a very popular thing with most of us, I believe.

Jackpot put it very well. Live and let live. I don't need to approve of the choices others make in order to accept that they have the right to make them.

I will never violate anyone else's human rights, and will not tolerate the violation of my own. 

[kylben]

some may draw a distinction between a radical political agenda vs. their goal of human-rights; I personally see them as one and the same

I'm mystified by that, but regardless, there's a lot of people that see a very large distinction.  I won't speak for anyone else, but I see it that way.  I'm straight and atheist.  I'd be a lot less interested in the FSW if gays were shunned even while nominally respecting their rights.  I have no idea if there are any gays involved with the FSW, because I've never even thought to ask, and I haven't seen one other person on these boards ask. Same goes for race, BTW.  There's a lot of talk about religion here, because its unavoidable in an environment where values are such a core consideration. Being gay isn't about values, and it hasn't come up. Now if someone were a flamboyant, Gay Pride Parade, feather boa and hot-pink-thong-wearing prancing queen, I imagine he'd have a hard time finding friends here.  That's too in your face even for me, and I imagine for most people. But that's not about being gay, that's about being an a**hole.  Same with atheists, go around here bashing Christians, and you won't have many friends. Go around demanding special rights, and you won't find many friends here. Gay or straight or atheist or believer, show mutual respect, and we all seem to get along.

And we all have family that might not be approved of by our friends, or even by ourselves, but everybody has to deal with that in their own way.  In my experience here, people are judged by the content of their own character.

[jubal]

   I Ditto jackpot..........And politics stay to hell out of it. Don't care what you practice, just don't practice it on me and we'll get along fine. The self righteous, sanctimonious and holier than thou make my ass tired. I don't need a conscience, I don't need a keeper, and I aint a project. Marry whoever or whatever you damned well please and makes you happy, you gotta live there.

[username]

Cool, thanks everyone for the honest, candid responses!  Keep 'em coming!
JP & co.

[Kelly]

I lived in Provincetown Mass for several years.  A sraight girl in a predominantly gay community.  Heard all the "issues" so to speak.  Kept my own counsel for the most part until I worked for a gay guy who was a bit gay militant, for lack of a better phrase.  You could hear time crawl the day I got fed up and said "Actually Nicholas, I don't believe in 'gay rights', I believe in human rights".

He shut up and we got back to work.

Just my 2 coins...

[jubal]

  Heh, Heh......Good one klc7402

[Blaineus]

I pretty much agree with all that's been said here before.

Being in the military, I see this is quickly building into a huge issue (again) with all the talk from the current administration about allowing gays to openly serve.  Many of my colleagues are talking about the end of the military as we know it if it's allowed.  I don't think those people understand "Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Pursue Policy" all that well.

Most take it as a mandate to prove how heterosexual and macho you are.  In reality, the law is about keeping your sexual preference - be it straight, gay, bisexual, into animals or trees or couches, to your own self and in your private life.  None of us should be talking about our sex lives, or pursuing the sex lives of others.  Basically, it's a live and let live policy... which I obviously agree with.  And as far as them serving openly - what the hell.  Anyone dumb enough to sign up should be able to do what they want in their bedroom (as long as they keep it there consensually and it isn't aggression against the rights of others, obviously).

One of the few things Clinton got right, in my opinion.  Now if he'd of just done the same thing about Black/Native American/Asian American and Pacific Islander/Women's History Month, and just let us all serve as equals, we'd be fine.

[manfromnevada]

OK, I'll throw in my $0.02!

I don't care what somebody's religion is. I don't care if he believes in God at all.
I don't care if someone is homosexual. (I don't use the "G" word).
I don't care if someone is black or white. "African American" "or European American".
I don't care if someone is Mexican or any other flavor of "Hispanic descent".

I DO care if somebody is frequently yapping about God.
I DO care if somebody is frequently yapping about homosexual "rights".
I DO care is somebody sees themselves as a perpetual victim of the white man.
I DO care is someone want a handout from the government (us).

I'll pick my friends from those who share my values, morals, and possibly even my culture.
Yeah, I prefer celebrating Columbus Day over Caesar Chavez day or MLK Jr. Day.

That's me. I don't speak for anyone else. And remember, Molon Labe is a work of fiction. And Boston is not the "leader" of the FSW anyway (his words).

Mac