Author Topic: introduction and hello  (Read 21527 times)

Offline MamaLiberty

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2013, 05:27:29 AM »
but it would seem they'll either adapt pretty quickly, or realize that they made a mistake and move on.

Heh... we count on the cold, snow and isolation from the city to give them that inclination. :)  Oh, and the wind...  At a -20 with a much lower windchill factor, that can be mighty persuasive to the faint of heart.
It's not that people are dumber, it's that stupidity used to be more painful.

Offline MamaLiberty

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2013, 06:28:32 AM »
Here is an excellent article about forming and keeping communities in preparation... and many of the pitfalls.

http://www.backwoodssurvivalblog.com/2012/12/preppers-who-make-surviving-apocalypse.html
Preppers Who Make Surviving The Apocalypse Even Less Fun

Being forced to endure and survive a catastrophic macro event like a monetary or social collapse is perhaps one of the worst experiences I could imagine.  Such a crisis leads to just about every crime and inhuman action in existence, and, the time required for a culture to right itself and rebuild is severely protracted.  A hurricane or earthquake or tidal wave; these calamities are short lived and easy in comparison.  The point is, as survivalists who are preparing to make an economic end-game scenario as “comfortable” to live through as we can, it is incumbent upon us to consider the kind of company we keep during the gambit.  Some allies will make that mad world bearable; others will bring the madness to your doorstep.

Many preppers are aware of the dangers inherent in our progressively deteriorating nation.  Unfortunately, some of them are completely unaware of the dangers inherent within themselves.  Building a solid community of people to rely on during a collapse is absolutely essential, and the larger the group of liberty minded neighbors the better.  But, if certain ground rules are not established from the very beginning, a rainbow of personal issues and character flaws could very well destroy years of effort.  Care must be taken by all parties involved to ensure that internal conflicts remain at a minimum, and when they do arise, that each person is wise enough to resolve issues in an adult manner.

I hate to say it, but you will inevitably run into some folks that are beyond compromise and beyond hope.  Working with them is like pulling teeth…shark’s teeth…from your jugular.  Here are just a handful of powder keg personalities that will make the apocalypse more than a living hell for you and your friends if they manage to latch onto or take leadership in your survival watch…
It's not that people are dumber, it's that stupidity used to be more painful.

Offline Steve C.

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2013, 06:43:47 AM »
Here is an excellent article about forming and keeping communities in preparation... and many of the pitfalls.

http://www.backwoodssurvivalblog.com/2012/12/preppers-who-make-surviving-apocalypse.html
Preppers Who Make Surviving The Apocalypse Even Less Fun

Being forced to endure and survive a catastrophic macro event like a monetary or social collapse is perhaps one of the worst experiences I could imagine.  Such a crisis leads to just about every crime and inhuman action in existence, and, the time required for a culture to right itself and rebuild is severely protracted.  A hurricane or earthquake or tidal wave; these calamities are short lived and easy in comparison.  The point is, as survivalists who are preparing to make an economic end-game scenario as “comfortable” to live through as we can, it is incumbent upon us to consider the kind of company we keep during the gambit.  Some allies will make that mad world bearable; others will bring the madness to your doorstep.

Many preppers are aware of the dangers inherent in our progressively deteriorating nation.  Unfortunately, some of them are completely unaware of the dangers inherent within themselves.  Building a solid community of people to rely on during a collapse is absolutely essential, and the larger the group of liberty minded neighbors the better.  But, if certain ground rules are not established from the very beginning, a rainbow of personal issues and character flaws could very well destroy years of effort.  Care must be taken by all parties involved to ensure that internal conflicts remain at a minimum, and when they do arise, that each person is wise enough to resolve issues in an adult manner.

I hate to say it, but you will inevitably run into some folks that are beyond compromise and beyond hope.  Working with them is like pulling teeth…shark’s teeth…from your jugular.  Here are just a handful of powder keg personalities that will make the apocalypse more than a living hell for you and your friends if they manage to latch onto or take leadership in your survival watch…

+1 I bookmarked it.
Give them your teeth, not your belly.

Offline pelletfarmer

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2013, 08:29:27 AM »
>  I don't want it to escalate into an actual war, I just want it to stop.  So I'll call the police...

That doesn't make sense.  If you don't want it to escalate into an actual war, why would you send armed agents to do your bidding?  What would "an actual war" look like, if not that?  Isn't Afghanistan (to name but one) an "actual war" even though you and I aren't there?

My main question is this.  If you have determined that nothing will stop your neighbor except the actual threat of physical violence if he continues, why wouldn't you do it yourself?  I don't mean to be rude or sarcastic; I'm genuinely interested in your thinking on the matter.  Most people will say they find something "civil" in having someone else do the dirty work, and I can't figure that part out.  If I hire a goon to go steal your stuff, would you not consider me a thief?  How would my having an agent somehow change my position?  Thanks if you can clarify at all.

Offline RaisedByWolves

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2013, 09:55:30 AM »
Brownhouse- About my new neighbors, I believe ONE of the people urging them to move to Wyoming is Glenn Beck. That's the only name I've recognized from talking to them. The other told me that he was urged to move to the place with the lowest population, which just so happens to be wyoming's crook county.




Kind of on the subject of neighbors again- One complaint I've heard from working with locals on a ranch here, is that "those libertarian free staters aren't very friendly" and "very possessive over their property". A realtor friend told me that he had a "free stater" pull a gun on him while he was showing a nearby property.
I guess I don't feel the same about a neighbor intruding on my land. I don't own any land and don't ever want to.
When TSHTF, I might possibly end up being the intruder, building a tree fort on the ass-end of your property (j/k & intended for all)
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Offline MamaLiberty

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2013, 10:12:08 AM »
A realtor friend told me that he had a "free stater" pull a gun on him while he was showing a nearby property.

I'd have to see some proof to believe this one - and more about the circumstances if proven. You can hear all kinds of stories, naturally. Doesn't make it true. And being true doesn't make it wrong either. Depends on the situation.

Not all visitors are trespassers, of course. All actual trespassers are first politely invited to leave...

Being friendly does not involve an obligation to be over run with trespassers.
It's not that people are dumber, it's that stupidity used to be more painful.

Offline SunDog

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2013, 10:16:43 AM »
...
Not all visitors are trespassers, of course. All actual trespassers are first politely invited to leave....

This explains something I've noted several times here in Wyoming - places posting a "No Trespassing" sign together with a "Welcome" sign.  :D

Offline RaisedByWolves

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2013, 10:28:12 AM »
Mama Liberty- You're right. Coming from my mouth, it is a rumor. I personally find the free staters I've met, friendly enough. (Even though I've only encountered two). I'm sure there's more out there :P
Hell they could be anybody, and I think that everytime I go into Hulette or Sundance.
Nunya Bidness

Offline RaisedByWolves

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2013, 10:54:23 AM »
Kind of what I've gotten from the local ranchers...
When they were kids in the 60s 70s & 80s, they traveled through other's properties and no one cared about trespassing. Since then, people have gotten more possessive with their land.
I think naturally people would get more territorial as the population grows and you no longer recognize the kids that cut through your yard.
Or it could very well be that there are new and different people moving here, with different views than the wild west and open ranges.

Wow, I'm really bad with staying on topic, categorizing my posts, and this system they call the internet.
Nunya Bidness

Offline Brownhouse

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2013, 11:20:11 AM »
>  I don't want it to escalate into an actual war, I just want it to stop.  So I'll call the police...

That doesn't make sense.  If you don't want it to escalate into an actual war, why would you send armed agents to do your bidding?  What would "an actual war" look like, if not that?  Isn't Afghanistan (to name but one) an "actual war" even though you and I aren't there?

My main question is this.  If you have determined that nothing will stop your neighbor except the actual threat of physical violence if he continues, why wouldn't you do it yourself?  I don't mean to be rude or sarcastic; I'm genuinely interested in your thinking on the matter.  Most people will say they find something "civil" in having someone else do the dirty work, and I can't figure that part out.  If I hire a goon to go steal your stuff, would you not consider me a thief?  How would my having an agent somehow change my position?  Thanks if you can clarify at all.

I don't know if you read my other post, but I'm not in Wyoming yet, I'm still in Illinois.  Life is different here.  To put it briefly, the police are everywhere here, and the mindset is that you use them for things like this, because if you don't, if you take matters into your own hands, then the other guy WILL call the police on YOU.  Following from my other post, the police here are just another "benefit" that you're "forced" to use, which just reinforces dependency.

You should understand, EVERYTHING is different here.  There ARE weirdoes walking down the street, and people quite often have very little respect for other people.  If you have two people who show respect to each other, and deal with each other honorably, then there would be no need for the police, because the situation wouldn't happen in the first place.  But when you have someone as disrespectful as my neighbor, and because people taking matters into their own hands are frowned upon here, if I were to take matters into my own hands, the assumption would be that I'm a trouble-maker.  Regarding my statement of "actual war", I was partially exaggerating, but in a sense, if I were to take matters into my own hands, this would be viewed as more-aggressive than just calling the police to "defuse" the situation.

Pelletfarmer, would you please tell me, and I mean this in the same spirit of your question, in order to learn, what would you do in a situation where a neighbor had cut down your brush and was dumping on your lot, and repeatedly talking to him did nothing to change his actions?
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Offline Brownhouse

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2013, 11:30:19 AM »
Brownhouse- About my new neighbors, I believe ONE of the people urging them to move to Wyoming is Glenn Beck. That's the only name I've recognized from talking to them. The other told me that he was urged to move to the place with the lowest population, which just so happens to be wyoming's crook county.

Ok, that makes sense.  I've heard Glenn Beck, but I avoid listening to him for the most part.  My opinion is that he just kind of shoots his mouth off without thinking much, trying to sound profound.
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Mike

Offline manfromnevada

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2013, 12:01:18 PM »
Re: what Brownhouse said about people there being different.

I visited the Chicago suburbs this summer for family reasons. Feeling cooped up, I decided to go walk along a couple of the "forest preserve" trails that meander thru the area. Since I was disarmed, I was watching the several people I came across on the trail, both coming at me and following me. All were respectable looking suburbanites out for a jog, a bike ride, a hike. But what I noticed was except for one, all avoided eye contact. As I approached, I was prepared to say "good morning" or "hello" or perhaps just a nod and a smile. But no, most purposefully looked away at the ground or the shrubs.

Out here, nobody would THINK of passing by you without a wave and a smile and a greeting. Even on the 10 miles of county road, EVERYONE waves as we drive by whether we recognize the other vehicle or not. Sometimes, people even wave on the highway at 65 mph.

I've seen the same thing in CA. Maybe it's not WY vs. IL or CA, but rural vs. urban. Still, it's disconcerting after having lived this way for several years.

Mac
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
<Edmund Burke>

Offline Paul Bonneau

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2013, 01:02:51 PM »
Quote
"those libertarian free staters aren't very friendly"

Part of this is likely the "slowing down" process that city people need to learn when moving to a low-population state. They have reflexes developed in a city environment which are not appropriate in rural and small town areas. It takes some time and practice, but is not impossible to get done.

Quote
But what I noticed was except for one, all avoided eye contact.
Ugh. Chicago sounds really bad. Portland is not near that bad, although there is some of that.

Quote
Pelletfarmer, would you please tell me, and I mean this in the same spirit of your question, in order to learn, what would you do in a situation where a neighbor had cut down your brush and was dumping on your lot, and repeatedly talking to him did nothing to change his actions?

Keeping in mind that every story has two sides, what I would do is avoid escalating any way I could, and make plans to get the hell out. Yeah, you could go over and threaten to beat the crap out of him, but that might not work out very well for any number of reasons. Try to find a place with decent neighbors. Life is a crap shoot, you never know what you are going to get, but you don't need to stay there and put up with it. Move on if it bothers you so much.

In a place like Wyoming I believe (with the exception of access to water) you are simultaneously less likely to run into such a-holes, more likely to be able to deal with any issues yourself, and if that doesn't pan out, you will likely find calling cops less of a disaster since a lot of Wyoming cops are pretty decent.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 01:04:56 PM by Paul Bonneau »
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Offline Brownhouse

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2013, 01:10:12 PM »
Re: what Brownhouse said about people there being different.

I visited the Chicago suburbs this summer for family reasons. Feeling cooped up, I decided to go walk along a couple of the "forest preserve" trails that meander thru the area. Since I was disarmed, I was watching the several people I came across on the trail, both coming at me and following me. All were respectable looking suburbanites out for a jog, a bike ride, a hike. But what I noticed was except for one, all avoided eye contact. As I approached, I was prepared to say "good morning" or "hello" or perhaps just a nod and a smile. But no, most purposefully looked away at the ground or the shrubs.

Out here, nobody would THINK of passing by you without a wave and a smile and a greeting. Even on the 10 miles of county road, EVERYONE waves as we drive by whether we recognize the other vehicle or not. Sometimes, people even wave on the highway at 65 mph.

I've seen the same thing in CA. Maybe it's not WY vs. IL or CA, but rural vs. urban. Still, it's disconcerting after having lived this way for several years.

Mac

Yes, you're absolutely right Mac.  People here are just odd and suspicious, and I would agree that it's urban versus rural.  When I go up north, it's just like you described in Wyoming, people are friendly, you say hello or wave, even if you don't know them.  I always feel a bit strange in the transitions, but it's my nature to be more friendly, so that's where I can be myself.

As for my neighbor, it doesn't bother me THAT much, not so much that a call to the police, as is unfortunately customary here, won't fix it.  My other neighbors are fantastic, so if this is the extent of my problems, I can live with it.  I'm not moving again until I move away from Illinois, and that's why I'm here.  :)
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Offline pelletfarmer

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Re: introduction and hello
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2013, 03:52:51 PM »
> ...what would you do in a situation where a neighbor had cut down your brush and was dumping on your lot, and repeatedly talking to him did nothing to change his actions?

I stink at counterfactual hypotheticals.  Mainly, I go to great lengths to avoid such situations.  Otherwise, I'm with Paul...I'd do what I can peacefully to try and persuade.  I guess if it were really so terrible, I'd figure that I made some huge mistake and, again like Paul, get the heck out of there.

Really, my attitude is basically the same as yours:  "...so if this is the extent of my problems, I can live with it."  Right, and I think that's most people's attitude, except that they've been habituated into being nannies over everyone else's life.

The point I was making is that having agents do something for you--anything--is the same as doing it yourself, responsibility-wise.  One of the reasons this country is in such a mess is that people have been convinced otherwise.  It sounds so very civil to most people--"I'll invoke the Rule of Law to have that guy act civilly"--but that's a euphemistic way of saying, "I'll go overpower him to make him do what I want."

So I don't know what I'd do.  What I do know is that I wouldn't turn myself into a thug over it, and interestingly not because the other guy doesn't deserve it.  I don't care what he deserves or doesn't; I'm interested in being who I want to be.  It's the same reason I'd never steal...not even from a politician!