Business tax study ranks California 40th, Wyoming No. 1

[Danl]

I am posting this story in its entirety since so many of these publications do not maintain the link for very long. 

Credit goes to:

By JONDI GUMZ
Sentinel staff writer
with the Santa Cruz Sentinel


Business tax study ranks California 40th, Wyoming No. 1
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2006/February/27/biz/stories/01biz.htm

February 27, 2006

Business tax study ranks California 40th, Wyoming No. 1By JONDI GUMZ
Sentinel staff writer
SANTA CRUZ ? Wyoming has the best business tax climate in the nation and California ranks 40th, according to a new report by the Tax Foundation, a think tank based in Washington, D.C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can find this story online at:
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2006/February/27/biz/stories/01biz.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright ? Santa Cruz Sentinel. All rights reserved.

::: SNIP ::: balance of story to comply with board policies on copyright infringement

Yes, sometimes links don't last as long as we might like. But do you see the quoted "copyright" and "all rights reserved" above? That means what it says. Please do not endanger this Board or the servers on which it is hosted by violating copyright.

Thank you!

Lady Liberty

[Paul Bonneau]

If I'm not mistaken, California has been losing population over the last few years.

Of course, it's always easier to start a business, where lots of similar businesses already exist. Easier to raid other companies for skilled workers. But there is a limit to how far you can go with that, as wages and housing prices rise, driving your product cost through the roof. People in California commute insane distances in heavy traffic to work every day. Who would want to live like that?

Anyway, many jobs can be anywhere, given the Internet. My wife will still be consulting for Nike some on database design, even though they are a thousand miles from Cody.

[planetaryjim]

Dear Paul,

If I'm not mistaken, California has been losing population over the last few years.

I could not find any data to corroborate this idea.  I looked at census.gov which has data on the various states.  This page:
  http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html
indicates a 6% increase in California population over the 2000 to 2004 period.

On the California government page: http://www.dof.ca.gov/HTML/DEMOGRAP/Estimates/E-7/E-7_1900-Jul05.xls
which is an Excel type document, it shows a decreasing rate of growth in recent years, but the population is still growing.

The overall thrust of this thread, that Wyoming's business climate is healthy seems well documented.  It is not in the least reduced in my view by any invidious comparisons to California (aka "Kalifornia, uber alles" as the Dead Kennedys sang) by evidently partial observers from, gosh, California.

Please note that the above figures on population are from government sites and sources.  I therefore regard them as unlikely to be accurate or meaningful.  But, I don't know any good private sources for such statistics.  So, use at your own risk.

Regards,

Jim
 http://vertoro.com/

[Paul Bonneau]

Well, I thought I read that on some census site, but apparently not. My memory ain't the most reliable.

[Don Wills]

California is losing native population, not total population.? Immigration from outside of the US, legal or otherwise, more than makes up for the migration of native Californians out of the state.? Here's a USA Today article -
 
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20041222/a_statepop22.art.htm

[planetaryjim]

Dear Chill,

California is losing native population, not total population.  Immigration from outside of the US, legal or otherwise, more than makes up for the migration of native Californians out of the state.

Well, that's not quite how I would put it. California is showing more births than deaths, and is also gaining population from immigration, according to the Excel chart I cited above (from the State of Kalifornia, and therefore of dubious merit - governments tie many of their activities to population).  So its native population continues to increase.  (We're using the term "native" to refer to those who are born there, not to individuals of aboriginal ancestry.)

What the USA Today article you cite does say, which is interesting stuff, is that more people are moving out of California than are moving into it from the rest of the country.  The same is apparently true of Colorado.

  "But California continues to lose more residents to other states than it gains from the rest of the USA.
 
  "Colorado, long one of the top destinations for people leaving California, lost more people to other states than it gained for the second year in a row."


Here are some values from that spreadsheet:

                           Births          Deaths                Migration                          
Year   Pop    Change   Percent   Number   Rate Number  Rate  Increase  Number  Rate
2003   35,990   597   1.69   537   14.9   233   6.5   304   293   8.1
2004   36,506   516   1.43   540   14.8   235   6.4   305   211   5.8
2005   37,005   499   1.37   557   15.1   237   6.4   320   179   4.8

So, these figures indicate a "natural increase" of population of 320,000 in 2005.  A further 179,000 people were added by migration (which I suppose covers immigration from outside the country and migration to and from other states).

As you can see the rate of growth has dropped from 1.69% in 2003 to 1.37% in 2005.  Decreasing growth in California's population can be seen right back to 2000.  (Indeed, I am suspicious of the high rate of growth for 2000 and 2001 which may mask some decennial census figure fudging.)

Obviously, the California business climate is not as groovy as the California apologists in the top article would suppose.  Just because businesses find reasons to crowd into Silicon Valley, Hollywood, or the San Fernando Valley doesn't mean that the overall condition of the state is good - or more Californians would not be leaving than the number of other Americans moving into the state.  However, it is good for Wyoming and other states if Californians don't perceive a problem, or find it incredible.  The changes they don't make will continue to spur people to move to better places.

Meanwhile, I'm glad Wyoming is a great place to live, work, and do business.  If people dedicated to living in California don't see it, so much the better. 

Regards,

Jim
 http://vertoro.com/

[Space Cowboy]

Thanks for the article!

I moved from Santa Cruz to Wyoming! I also used to work in Silicon Valley. Most of the the article is crap (pardon my french). After the internet bust, the unemployment rate was at least 50%. Those laid off people either took jobs pumping gas, flipping burgers, or eventually moved out. This is from first hand experiance and observation.

I helped my Dad build a house in the Santa Cruz mountains. It took over $30,000 in permits and 5 years to get everything approved!!!!!!!!

The city councilman teaches Marxism at the University and is an avowed Marxist (Don't ask me how a Marxist reconciles running in a democratic race......)

I made significantly more each month (same hourly wage) when I moved from Kalifornia to Wyoming. The difference? No state income tax!

Wyoming economically depressed? Hogwash! Santa Cruz had one of the highest homeless populations in the nation! I've seen ONE homeless person in Wyoming so far. Employers are practically begging people to work here. The Gillette Chamber of Comerce routinely goes to other states to try and recruit any and all to come work here.

OK, end rant......

[Hunter]

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ?RANT?? ? ? WHAT RANT?? ? ? ? ?FACT!!!!!!!!!
YA WANT TO LIVE AND WORK IN WYOMING?
MOVE HERE & APPLY FOR WORK, YOU'LL FIND IT!!!!

[Fred Rogers]

The Gillette Chamber of Comerce routinely goes to other states to try and recruit any and all to come work here.

The local paper here in the U.P. had an article yesterday on the back page (10A) titled "Wyoming recruiters head back to Michigan."
Article says "it will be the third recruiting trip to Michigan by the Campbell County Economic Development Corp."  They are headed to Flint, Michigan on Thursday and Grand Rapids on the 14th, both places are an 8-hour drive from here, less for my wife's sister who has some kind of card, maybe from Monopoly.  Article says previous recruiting efforts erected billboards in Michigan advertising jobs in Wyoming.
Quotes a Susan Jerke, "We sense there are probably 55-60 people in Campbell County..."  from Michigan.

Campbell County, isn't that Newcastle area?  It's an AP article, apparently generated in Gillette, Wyo.

I know of several from this area that are there.  I wonder what their political affiliation would be, those from the LP?  I've said I'm a registered Democrat and if you believe that defines me, such is life.  But Michigan does have 750,000 that take to woods each deer rifle season and if those heading that way, like those I know, are blue-collar, odds are they have a favorable view of guns, their political affililiation can be persuaded, or awakened, but not if all they are exposed to is the inmates in charge of the asylum.

[MamaLiberty]

Fred, Newcastle is in Weston county, not Campbell ... but it's not too far from here. The counties are quite small, for some reason that escapes me (but for which I am grateful!).

Newcastle is seeing an influx of new people, of course, many of whom are newly employed in other areas where there is little or no housing available. I suspect that will only increase as these big projects mature, and someone who could bring in a few construction crews to build houses would clean up bigtime right now. The contractors here tell me they are now booked up to two years!! Same with anyone who could bring in a bunch of mobile or manufactured houses and get them set up here. There is land aplenty, just nobody to do the work!! And, of course, they'd need the capital to make it happen, but I suspect the big employers looking for workers would be willing to help some with that.

The very limiting factor here for any kind of business is the availability of workers. Many of the businesses in town have "help wanted" signs up, and some have been up for months. The balance between housing and jobs needs to level out somehow, but that will happen fastest and best if left to the real free market, of course.

So, though I don't always agree with Pete, this time I do - there are more jobs and opportunities here than you can shake a stick at... so lack of a job isn't much excuse for anyone not to come to Wyoming if this is where they want to be. I will never regret my escape from Kommiefornia, that's for sure.

MamaLiberty

[KesWindhunter]

Gillette is the county seat for Campbell County

[Cat]

We actually have some people from Michigan coming to Newcastle to work here. 

Campbell County is spearheading these recruiting trips because two of the country's biggest coal mines are in Campbell County; Jacob's Ranch (Rio Tinto, formerly Kennecott) and Black Thunder (Arch Coal).

Finding land for sale in Weston County is not as easy as it was two years ago.  Subdivision has to go through the Planning Commission in the county, plus the city if the land is within one mile of the limits.  Access to water is a roadblock too.  Getting houses built here is not as easy as it looks.  Also, because of the boom, prices have skyrocketed on land.

Newcastle used to be economically depressed and some of the local employers haven't accepted "the boom".  Those help wanted signs linger because they are offering minimum wage and no benefits.  Kids just out of high school can go to the mines and make four times as much. 

Rockwell Petroleum is moving to Newcastle and rumor has it that they will be bringing 200 jobs.  Once again, housing will be the problem.

Cat

[MamaLiberty]

Yes, there are plenty of obstacals and nothing is going to be easy... rising wages will mean rising prices, usually. As long as the free market is allowed to function, that will improve the lives of everyone. If the merchants in town don't offer a competitive wage, then they must be doing adequately without the help.

But great opportunity is still here for those willing to work and perservere, especially those who don't look to government to solve their problems. sigh. Government is the only impediment to honest competition, or any other aspect of a healthy economy.

MamaLiberty

[Cat]

I certainly didn't mean my post to be discouraging for anyone, I was simply posting information that might be useful to people in their planning process.

I couldn't agree more that there are unlimited opportunities in Wyoming and even right here in Newcastle.  I, like Pete, am a realist though and finding "affordable" housing here (and many other places) is very difficult.  In other words, "Be Prepared".

And starting a construction business will run into the same problem that the local merchants face.  To get workers (you'd be competing with the mines and oil companies), the wages offered would have to be pretty high.  High wages means high cost of construction and high prices for the finished homes.  If providing high end housing is what someone is interested in-the sky's the limit. 

Long story short--if someone has plenty of money--no problem.  Not much money--definite problem.  People just need to be aware and plan accordingly. 

[MamaLiberty]

I didn't read that as discouragement, just caution.

Capital is always necessary, of course, but many a small business has been made into a big one with a small initial investment, especially in a free society. You don't have to start out with a hundred employees, just a talent and a willingness to work hard.

What is "affordable housing?" That's not some arbitrary number by any means. If the housing that is available is NOT "affordable," then it won't sell. If there is a real shortage of housing, and plenty of people wanting to buy them, houses will be built and the prices will go up until fewer people want them. Then the building slows and the price comes down. It works exactly the same for one room cabins as it does for any "high end" home. It works the same for cabbages and BMWs. All we have to do is let it be.

When left alone, people will work together and find a level that suits both seller and buyer, employer and employee. The seller and employee would like to get a little more, while the buyer and employer would like to pay a little less... and this is a part of the dynamic that keeps the market ever changing, yet in relative balance - naturally, as everyone seeks both their own best interest and to provide value for value (which is really a way of saying the same thing). The real free market is in operation when both parties feel they have the best of the bargain because they value the thing they traded for more than what they gave for it.

Unfortunately, inflation and government games with the money and economy make this harder to do and harder to recognize for what it is. The economy can't be "controlled," or in any way "planned," but it certainly can be and is being screwed up royally any time people are prevented from trading freely, on their own terms. Freedom benefits everyone, except government, of course. 

MamaLiberty