Author Topic: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident  (Read 9756 times)

Offline freewyo

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Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« on: July 29, 2007, 06:08:47 PM »
I am deeply disturbed by the changes in our state. People who truly love open space, freedom and an uncluttered unpreturbed way of life do not build in the open places they so cherish.  Once everyone has built their little ranchette on 40 acres in the name of freedom, all that will be left will be, well, oil and gas wells and little teeny ranchettes. 

As a hunter and fisherman, I am bothered by the changes I see.  People from out of state disrespect our way of life.  They build a house and put up fences, then yak away in the grocery line on their cell phones!  People who love the mountains don't live there....  They enjoy them and then leave them as they found them.  They we respect wildlife (i.e. no building fences, duh, antelope!), they don't build roads (it only spreads invasive weeds which are BAD for ranchers and wildlife), and they live off the grid.....  Or better yet, live in town.  It costs taxpayers a lot of money to maintain those remote county roads.  I have a bad feeling that all the people moving into this state, in what were once 'remote' areas are going to force a state income tax on us. 

I'm a registered Republican, a conservative and that's what I like to see, us CONSERVE our heritage and protect it from other invasives - people.

Stay home people and please work to fix your own state please before ruining ours.

Offline SilenceDoGood

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2007, 06:44:42 PM »
Ah, so you're the one who had the bumper sticker, "My Wyoming has an East Infection"....

You are correct in that a growing population is hard on the environment. It is sad. I appreciate- and understand- your concern, but don't you dare lump all non- native Wyomingites into the same category!!!

Though I come from a state ruled by Democrats, the Wisconsin Republicans are very exclusive: i.e., "You people don't belong in this group/ club/ area, etc.", much like the attidue you have displayed here, sir. Wyoming is the "Equality State", not a "members only" state. It was the first state to grant equal rights to women (including women who move here From Away). This state has balanced industry and growth with nature (though perhaps it could be better!) since John Colter crossed into this area in 1807.

Are you saying that native residents don't use cell phones, don't throw trash in the rivers, and don't build fences?

While I shall always be an Irish gal from Wisconsin (a place, I might add, where Izaak Walton chapters do lots of work to educate about, maintain and conserve the environment; we have disrespect for nature there, too), I consider Wyoming my home: never have I encountered people so friendly and welcoming.

As angry as your all- inclusive post has made me, I support your right to say what you want, as loudly as you want. But keep in mind this is a forum for freedom- lovers, not freedom- haters.

For the record, I am conservative libertarian; I am a single mother who has never been on welfare; I worked fulltime while going to college and raising my children on my own; I am a United States veteran; my children are active in church and conservation programs; we all appreciate hunting and love fishing; we carry trash bags with us while on nature walks.

And for the record, sir, I also intend to build a house and put up a very large fence to keep people with your attitude away from my children.
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Offline JenS

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2007, 08:13:43 PM »
Wow, well I am planning on living off the grid as soon as I can, and I hate taxes. So what does that make me?
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Offline SafetyFactor

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2007, 08:22:41 PM »
And I'm going to build an underground home in a wide open space. You'll never even know I'm there...except for the regular sound of gunfire!  ;D
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Offline Paul Bonneau

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2007, 10:32:36 PM »
Freewyo has some valid concerns. People often do turn a beautiful landscape into an eyesore with their McMansions and what not. And I think it is valid to try to persuade people to be a little more conscientious and considerate of their neighbors.

I agree that people should consider living in town. Wyoming towns are not like Los Angeles or Detroit.  :)

Part of his concerns would be addressed if people who do not want to live in towns just keep this "code of the west" in mind.

But saying this is just silly:

Quote
Stay home people and please work to fix your own state please before ruining ours.

People can move where the hell they want to move. Usually they move to a place that already mirrors their values.

And saying this, in our forum of all places, is even sillier:

Quote
I have a bad feeling that all the people moving into this state, in what were once 'remote' areas are going to force a state income tax on us.

Freewyo, you are going to have to look awful hard in this forum to find anyone who wants an income tax in Wyoming. We are the ones who are going to help stop such nonsense.
Laws turn men into slaves.

Offline Wyowoman

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2007, 10:41:25 PM »
I know he or she can't be talking about me - we certainly didn't get 40 acres and I don't have a cell phone  :D 

Some of the main reasons we moved here are the beauty of the state and the fact that there's no state income tax, and the freedom!  We don't want to change it.  We moved to get away from Tax Hike Mike in NC, the smog, etc. 

We've been disgusted by the swooping in of some liberals from CA (and other states) who can make a big profit on their over valued homes and they come out here to buy ranches and then sell off all the equipment and then just live on a huge piece of land without working the land, no grazing, no farming.  Of course, I believe that a lot of the property in WY is over valued by the local real estate agents.  Sorry to get off topic there but a pet peeve.

Please get to know us, read what is written here, etc.  before you make those assumptions!  8)
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Offline planetaryjim

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2007, 11:23:08 PM »
Dear Friends,

This thread, and another much like it, started by newbie "freewyo" is interesting.  Frankly, I wish this Republican person would review some of the threads on this forum, to see how much agreement is here for the same basic values.

One of the reasons people in Wyoming have lots of open space, and a few thousand newcomers aren't going to change that fact, is the very large percentage of Wyoming land that is national park, national forest, bureau of land management land, state park, or other "public" land.  It is not sensible to suppose that everyone is going to want 40 acres (and a mule?) let alone build on that acreage and fence it off.  But, even if so, there would continue to be a vast majority of all acreage in Wyoming that was "public" land, and cannot be built upon.  (I am commenting here on what is observably true of Wyoming, not suggesting it is "best.")

Mind you, when someone buys land, that person has a property right in that land.  It is ignorant and foolish, not to mention hateful and vicious, to tell other people how to use their land.  If someone were to steal 40 acres and build a ranchette house and fence it, that would be wrong, of course.  But what is wrong with someone who buys 40 acres doing as he pleases with his land?  Why shouldn't he be entitled to whatever home and whatever fencing he pleases?  Just what sort of property values are being conserved by mandating what other people may and may not do with their property?  If this person really is a Republican, he seems to be more in the vein of a big government Republican - a neo-conservative wanting to run other people's lives.

The admonition to "stay home" is interesting.  As Paul notes, I'll go where I please.  It is supposed to be a free country.  I'll buy property where I please (and through such structures as trusts, corporations, and the like as seem to me most likely to affect my prosperity and happiness).  I'll build what I like.  Talk on my cell phone if I like. 

And if you don't like it, "freewyo" then you can mind your own business.  What I do with my life and my property is not your concern.

Regards,

Jim
My long posts make some think I'm a key figure in FSW.  I'm not. I'm not an officer nor a leader.  I'm just this guy.  I think FSW is a great idea, & defend & promote it as I'm able.   Assuming that anyone agrees w/me is mistaken. Your bad results from your poor assumptions are your responsibility.

Offline Brandy

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2007, 12:37:51 AM »
After thinking about this for more than a few seconds I have decided to respond and give some insight since I am one of "those" that have moved to this wonderful state recently.

1.? I did not buy 40 acres--we bought a house with a couple of acres in a very small incorporated town that was established long before we even decided to move.?

2. Some of the most hateful and intolerant people we have met are from Wyoming--they are also the ones that want to fence everything and everyone out.? I am, however, extremely delighted in the fact that these meetings have been few and far between for this type of person.

3. The fencing I have seen on the big ranches has that cattle panel pattern(I think it is field fencing) I've seen a baby antelope caught in it and I have watched fawn run back and forth frantically while mom has jumped the fence.

4.? People are going to move--that is just a given at least until the JBT decide to institute the National ID and regulate interstate traffic.? I think I would rather have someone move here that would like to live away from it all than have someone who moves here expecting to live as if it were a 'gated community'.

5.? I am offended that there is such an attitude of "stay away because you couldn't possibly contribute any good to this state".? Maybe you, Freewyo, should concentrate your effort on admonishing the welfare recipients or the meth users or the drug runners or the...........but wait they are not coherent enought to have a website and a coordinated effort. Oh and you probably could not hold an intelligent conversation with many of them.? They have a greater potential for causing the initiation of a state tax than myself and fellow FSW'ers.

6.  Are US citizens from other states of such a great threat?  Do you harbor these same feelings towards illegal aliens who are invading "your" state?

Brandy ~W~
Veritas numquam perit - Truth never perishes!

Offline Paul W. Allen

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007, 10:37:35 PM »
Being from Wyo I can confess to many of the same thoughts over the years. I also claim to be a conservative Replubican and will probably lean that way til death. However, politics have never been a prerequisitse to making a life a Wyo. I don't know how many here have been following the blog comments in response to the story about FSW in the Star, but I can assure you from those at work that read the article that the attitudes are formed by ignorance. I've said it before and gotten into some bitter discussion, but there is a definate PR issue to overcome. Until this is corrected, I fear that many attitudes will never change. Unfortunate as this is, it is true. Saying that it is none of your business is not a valid argument. That is just not how Wyoming works. If that is how someone truely feels, then I must agree that they would be better off staying home. Reach out, don't offend. Paul
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Offline lunghd

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2007, 07:23:13 PM »
This is a great thread for a variety of reasons - FreeWYO addresses a valid concern for ANYONE who is concerned that their communities lifestyle and way of life are going to be turned upside down by outsiders with no regard for 'how things are'. Hold on - don't ya'll click that mouse button yet...

A little story about some things that have happened around here (in VA).

There is a large, man made lake that was surrounded by farms, mobile home communities and rv / camper communities. Very laid back. Farms that were in the same family for generations - way before the lake. 2 lane roads. NO stop lights in most counties surrounding the area. Country schools. Country values. People just 'got along' and minded their own business. The lake itself was a government imposed blight... but after a few decades, the fishin' got good so most 'good ol' boys' were willing to forgive the 'gubbmint' for stealing 'Uncle Henry's farm'.

Fast forward a few more decades: 'Yankees' discover the area.

They discovered cheap land, waterfront property, and an escape from the high crime, crappy urban environment they were in 'up north'. The only thing they didn't like about country life was, in fact; our country life.
 
Gravel roads got their Mercedes dirty... so WE "needed" to pave them. There were no shopping malls. so WE "needed" a strip mall. No airport? WE "need" a small airport built. Well, by golly - they also began to demand convenience stores, more shopping areas, SEVERAL golf courses and that poor lake... where you once could catch your limit (and then some!) of bass, crappie & big ol' catfish... Well now, IF you can dodge the jet-skis and ski-boats then I wish you luck finding an inch of shoreline not rip-rapped or monitored by the new sheriff's department boats. Heck - we even have the Coast Guard Aux here now!  ( :o  Yes, on a lake 5 hours from the ocean!) And there are even 'trash barges' running full time now to clean up the crap that fishermen & tourists throw out into the lake. Guess who pays for that?... or has to move out for the newcomers.

Once they discovered us "unsophisticated, country hicks" (that's folk like me...), the Yankees promptly scooped up as much land as they could get and by concentrating their numbers in a particular area they essentially (along with their influx of $$$) 'took over' the area and it's government. (Expanded to a state level... does that idea sound familiar to FSW'rs?) That's something to think about, folks. If it ain't broke - don't fix it.

Keep in mind that the majority of the 'Yankees' here are fairly nice and DO want a better life for their families than what they left behind. BUT...

Today, the RV / cabin communities are gone. State campgrounds and a few KOA overnighter parks are it unless you OWN some land there.
The mobile home communities are gone, replaced with 1/4 acre lots with McMansions.
The elderly folk that were still living in the last mobile home community there a few years back? Gone now. Who knows where they ended up. Many held on as long as they could to their lake trailers which were (in some cases) there since the 50's.
Big farms? Gone. Replaced by $million dollar ++++ mansions & condos that surround all the readily accessible shore line not taken by McDevelopments.
No property taxes were replaced with both high property & real estate taxes going through the roof.
Old family farms are broken up and sold off by families who can't afford to farm the family land... and frankly, who'd want a snotty punk from 'up north' moving in next door and then whining about the smell from the hog pen anyway? (Miraculously - they couldn't smell them hogs for the entire 6 months it took to build their McMansion...)
Add in the meth labs moving in, add additional 'law enforcement', add public utilities jacking property taxes... well - I think this is exactly what FreeWYO is concerned about.

I believe I understand exactly where FreeWYO (the original poster) is coming from and what his concerns are. If I understood his / her post correctly: it's all about people FLEEING a place / lifestyle that no longer suits them, that was bad for them and was too expensive (monetarily / freedom-wise) for them... BUT once they found a 'haven' (in our case: Wyoming) to go to... the "invaders"  promptly begin to construct a CLONE OF THE VERY PLACE THEY FLED.

That's where the resentment comes from folks... I'd wager you that FreeWYO is just concerned that 'people like us' will destroy what he treasures... and what he treasures is what makes Wyoming... Wyoming. Frankly - it concerns me too. I've seen it happen here.

Hope no one takes this personally but it needed to be said - I'm not trying to come across one way or the other - I'm just recounting a personal view of local experiences and hearing a lot of that echoed in FreeWYO's words. If ya got pissed off reading this - it wasn't intentional... but I'm also not sorry.  ;D It's just a real world concern that you ARE going to bump into when relocating to ANY area. Change is inevitable... but being perceived as the chief motivator of change AND being from 'outside' IS going to cause friction.

The best way to become a resident of an area is to quietly be there 5 years before anyone even realizes ya are there... and by that time, you'll almost be "one of them".  ;) LEARN THE LOCAL WAY OF LIFE BEFORE YA TRY TO "EDUCATE" THE LOCALS. (They might actually have a clue about how they wanna live their lifes without ya!  ;) )

Remember that outsiders ARE outsiders to 'the locals' of ANY community. To become a part of that community... well, you need to leave your baggage on the bus. Throw away the nikes and put on some good work boots, don't gripe about the gravel roads, don't whine about having to drive 30 minutes to the store, and for goodness sakes don't even think about building a 7-11 / theatre / WalBoxStorestripmall. Enjoy the lake, or Wyoming, AS IT IS... and the friendly folk will, once they get to know ya, welcome you. Or, screw with tradition and end up in a long term pissing match where no one wins, or worse: and the very thing FSW'rs are seeking will be lost forever.

Just a thought or twelve - take it fer whut it's werth. (Sorry - that's the only way I know to type in a southern accent. :D )
« Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 07:38:45 PM by lunghd »
If it ain't broke; DON'T fix it. This includes Wyoming.

535    thieves in Congress each stealing 1FRN from you.
   1    thief promises to "bring home" 60% of your 1FRN.
----   -- ---------------------
534.4 FRN in their pocket - .60 in yours. Explain how that's a good deal again.

Offline Shawn

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2007, 07:43:50 PM »
Staying home ??? ?I am home. ?I live here. ?I was free to come here. ?For whatever reason I deemed......pick your adjective. ?In fact, though it's a stretch, I can imagine not being free to come here, in which case I would have come anyway. ?I'm not here by accident of birth, I'm here because I chose it.

Stay home people and please work to fix your own state please before ruining ours.

This is truly disgusting. ?It's repulsive. ?It's offensive. ?Do not tell me what to do. ?Fortunately, you are a tiny minority. ?I have not had the misfortune to encounter and converse in person with anyone at all as unpleasant and unwelcoming as yourself.

While I typed the above, lunghd made his post.? And I think I understand.? But I really can't stand anyone telling me to do anything.? It raises a fury in me.? It also bothers me considerably to be painted as "people... (that) are going to force a state income tax on us"? ?What??? I wouldn't pay any tax if it weren't for the government's employ of force!!!? Sheesh.
Our heritage in a nutshell: "This country was founded by religious nuts with guns"  P. J. O'Rourke...Isn't it time?

Offline Atlas Shrug

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2007, 08:21:49 PM »
lunghd,

Smith Mountain Lake by chance?   :o

On the point, I do understand some of what is being aired in this thread.  I too live in an area that is greatly changed since I was a young 'un.   :)  (More than tripled in size in 30 years - Research Triangle Park / Raleigh NC area.)

I too have seen folks come in and change things, all the while telling me not to complain since "you don't have a traffic problem, you should have seen it where I came from" all the while being oblivious to the fact that THEY are my traffic problem.....

Hence I'm sensitive to current WY residents' concerns.  I don't want to be an outsider coming in, I want to be a good neighbor finding the right place to be.  Even so, I'll have to be careful not to bring external things best left where they came from.

On the other hand, I recall warmly Biathlon's statement at the last Jam, where he stated something like "heck, I want you folks to move here to WY because of the way you think, I want you to come here and make it an even better place."   (Norm, my apologies if I didn't remember the gist or if you feel misquoted.)

Anyway, I agree that the tone of freewyo is lacking, but his smoke does emanate from true fires.  I'll do my utmost to be cognizant of that and not miss the message for the messenger.
 
Keep your powder dry,

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Offline lunghd

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2007, 08:26:18 PM »
Atlas Shrug: Yup. SML. Home of more New Jersey plates than New Jersey itself!  ;D
If it ain't broke; DON'T fix it. This includes Wyoming.

535    thieves in Congress each stealing 1FRN from you.
   1    thief promises to "bring home" 60% of your 1FRN.
----   -- ---------------------
534.4 FRN in their pocket - .60 in yours. Explain how that's a good deal again.

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2007, 08:29:56 PM »
Let's all chill. ?The original poster was provactive, but wrong in many ways.  We've risen to the bait.
 ?
Think about this, and soothe yourselves: ?at the VA hospital in Sheridan, they have a lot of pictures and such on the walls. ?One of them, is a writing from quite a while ago, maybe from 1914 IIRC: which ends with ?"God bless Wyoming, and keep it wild."
 ?
I don't think that many of us are far from that writer's hope.
 ?
Let's keep our eye on the ball.? There's ignorant people everywhere.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 08:48:27 PM by Prairie Fire »

Offline Boston

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Re: Please stay home - concerned wyoming resident
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2007, 03:49:48 AM »
freewyo, I wish that you had first learned what we are all about before you posted. 

I would advise this for anybody wishing to comment about the FSW.

Regards,
Boston