City vs. Country

[MichaelNotMike]

One thing we've put thought to is the possibility that DJ will end up with a job with the WY State. I know that's not the happiest outcome, but it seems where most paralegal jobs (or "legal assistant" as they're sometimes called) in WY are, from what we've seen online. (Unless anyone knows any cowboy lawyers looking for an assistant, unlikely those advertise.)

There's a paralegal job with the WY state gov have been empty for a while. That one will be filled before we could move, but it's encouraging as for employment possibilities with what she's trained to do and enjoys.

Paralegal jobs don't stay unfilled here in SoCal. WY probably isn't as swamped with applications as they'd be here. I doubt there a lot of unemployed paralegals in Wyoming (espec. with WY having the lowest overall unemployment in the US), and I doubt a lot of paralegals relocate to there (at least nowhere as many as relocate to here), so that looks like what it will likely be.

Could at least get us there, and is encouraging as to dealing with the three-pronged difficulty of selling this house, finding a house there, and finding employment there.

MWD

[Big Ugly]

Have you considered Levi 501???

Remember that up here in Wyoming, we are a lot closer to the sun with a lot less atmosphere between here and there!
One of the major problems in Wyoming is skin cancer from too much exposure to the sun. Wear long pants (helps with the sage too) long sleeves (you can always roll long sleeves up but you can't roll short sleeves down!), and a hat. I am very fair skinned and have even burnt through a shirt.

[MichaelNotMike]

Have you considered Levi 501???

Boycotting 'em. They finance anti-gun stuff.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/814414/posts

[Boston]

Wrangler.
7 belt loops, and perfect for mag pouch and holster orientation.

Boston

[alexspartan]

Have you considered Levi 501???

Boycotting 'em. They finance anti-gun stuff.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/814414/posts

Yep, I stopped wearing Levis a long time ago.  Wrangler loose-fitting boot cuts pour moi.

[Paul Bonneau]

Speaking of boycotting, how about boycotting employment with the state? Wyoming already has far, far too many (enter your favorite cussword here). More per capita than any state but Alaska. If there's one thing we DON'T need, it is more government employees.

Folks, this is a forum for FREE STATE WYOMING. Am I the only one who finds it a little weird anyone here would want a government job? Government is the antithesis of freedom.

Sorry for the rant, but it had to be said.

[MichaelNotMike]

Speaking of boycotting, how about boycotting employment with the state? Wyoming already has far, far too many (enter your favorite cussword here). More per capita than any state but Alaska. If there's one thing we DON'T need, it is more government employees.

Folks, this is a forum for FREE STATE WYOMING. Am I the only one who finds it a little weird anyone here would want a government job? Government is the antithesis of freedom.

Sorry for the rant, but it had to be said.

I knew I was setting up for this as soon as I posted it.....partially based on the other thread where you and Boston already sparred over this very subject. 

We're certainly going to look into non-gov jobs for Debra Jean when we move there, but there are logistics. We aren't going to be able to do what we want to do if she's working at WalMart. She is an incredibly skilled paralegal, that's her best value in any job market, so that's what she'll do, here or there.

Moving out of a state we've been in for over half our lives is a big decision. We want to do it in a way that works for us. That includes her working as a paralegal, that's a deal breaker. If Julliete Kramer needs a paralegal, DJ will certainly apply to her as a first choice. If anyone like her is looking, please let us know. As someone said, that sort of job doesn't advertise.

We'll check with private attorneys when we move to see if they're hiring, but the only thing we could find online was state jobs.

MWD

[kylben]

Speaking of boycotting, how about boycotting employment with the state? Wyoming already has far, far too many (enter your favorite cussword here). More per capita than any state but Alaska. If there's one thing we DON'T need, it is more government employees.

Folks, this is a forum for FREE STATE WYOMING. Am I the only one who finds it a little weird anyone here would want a government job? Government is the antithesis of freedom.

Sorry for the rant, but it had to be said.

There's two different kinds of government work.  There's doing things that are evil that shouldn't be done by anybody, and doing things that are good and necessary, but shouldn't be done by the government.  I consider taking the latter kind of job to be roughly in the same class as using public roads or the Post Office or calling the police if you get mugged.  Avoid them if you can (they're often depressing and degrading anyway), if you can't don't ever let that dependence carry you over the line into advocating for them, and do everything you can to structure your life around not needing them.  Easier in some cases, harder or impossible in others, but in any case, only you yourself can truly know how conscientiously you've kept to your principles, and its really nobody else's business.

The former, of course, makes you unfit for the company of decent men, and it is everybody else's business.

[wyomiles]

MichaelnotMike, I did a quick web search for "wyoming paralegal jobs" and saw a few that were not government. Not sure what they pay etc but just thought I would throw that out there.  Here is one for example.

http://wyoming.craigslist.org/lgl/1004959453.html

and here        http://www.getparalegaljobs.com/state/paralegal-jobs-wyoming.html

[MichaelNotMike]

MichaelnotMike, I did a quick web search for "wyoming paralegal jobs" and saw a few that were not government. Not sure what they pay etc but just thought I would throw that out there.  Here is one for example.

http://wyoming.craigslist.org/lgl/1004959453.html

and here        http://www.getparalegaljobs.com/state/paralegal-jobs-wyoming.html

Thank you. Didn't see those, went to a bunch of other sites.

MWD

[KentuckyRifle]

Speaking of boycotting, how about boycotting employment with the state? Wyoming already has far, far too many (enter your favorite cussword here). More per capita than any state but Alaska. If there's one thing we DON'T need, it is more government employees.

Folks, this is a forum for FREE STATE WYOMING. Am I the only one who finds it a little weird anyone here would want a government job? Government is the antithesis of freedom.

Sorry for the rant, but it had to be said.

I understand where you are coming from, but I think there are some situations where I have changed my mind on this. The positions of school teacher and police officer are two good examples. I cannot emphasize enough how strongly I believe that the government should not be involved in education. With that being said, I wish there were some talented FSW folks who could get employed to work with the kids that are in the system, sow a few good seeds. Especially in a subject like History.

Ditto with Peace Officers. We have discussed at various times about how a county Sheriff has an enormous amount of power and ability to block various Federal infringements and intrusions within a particular county, I sure would love to see some FSW members get into a position like that. You have to get the experience somewhere to get a job like that.

Even for regular patrol officers, I would like to see some guys in that job with the mindset of being Peace Officers and being civil servants.

I think sometimes we get so fed up with certain people and organizations that we have a tendency to want to wash our hands of the whole thing, when we should possibly see about getting involved and influencing things to the best of our ability.

Ron Paul is a good example. He has been fighting the system as it exists in Washington for decades now. How many times do you think he has had to do or be involved with things that disgusted him, with an eye toward the big picture? While he has been in the system, fighting the system, he has also used the system to play the game. Remember the "earmarks" that some folks made such a big deal about?

Principles are a good thing to have, and we need to stand on them. However, as much as it sounds terrible to even say it, sometimes we have to compromise them with an eye toward the bigger picture. Everyone has a line I suppose, and we must draw it somewhere. If you choose to stand entirely on principle you would quit paying the "voluntary" income tax, property taxes that support the school systems we rail against, and deducting the portions of the many other taxes that you pay that go towards supporting everything from Abortion, to ACORN, to the UN. Heck, I guess if you were really going to stand only on principle you would go obtain yourself some "illegal weapons" like MG's, DD's, and AOW's and start your Revolution.

[alexspartan]

I understand where you are coming from, but I think there are some situations where I have changed my mind on this. The positions of school teacher and police officer are two good examples. I cannot emphasize enough how strongly I believe that the government should not be involved in education. With that being said, I wish there were some talented FSW folks who could get employed to work with the kids that are in the system, sow a few good seeds. Especially in a subject like History.

Yes, dear god, this is definitely something libertarians should be doing!  One of the writers for my school paper is an anti-capitalist, socialist POS, and always spews forth his beliefs in the op/ed section of the paper every week.  And guess what he's studying to be.

A history teacher!!, for either middle school, or high school.  This is exactly the kind of thing that is directly responsible for so many people today who a) don't know anything or b) know a lot that just isn't true.  Swine like this kid cannot be allowed to go unchallenged in their teaching.  This is the kind of thing they've been doing for many, many years, and it's time we do the same, if only to undermine it a bit.

I would like to do the same, but many high schools don't teach economics.  I know, shocking.

[MichaelNotMike]

<---- begin rant ---->

I have so many thoughts here....and thank you for all who posted with well-stated opinions from all sides of the "argument." It's a lot to chew on. 

I guess I'm mostly addressing Paul here, but also just stating my thoughts on all this, I was prompted to do a lot of thinking based on Paul's reaction.

My immediate thoughts:

First, isn't it a stated idea of the FSP to install "the good ones" in government positions? This seems true both in the original Sorens essay, which contained the line "Once we've taken over the state government....", and in the contemporaneous WY Boston Molon Labe incarnation, where the hero becomes governor.

If we'd like a freedom-minded person as Governor/president, why wait for that? What's wrong with having a few freedom lovers pushing pencils now in the beehive of gov organizations that do not kick in doors?

It's quicky becoming "uncool" and even "rascist" or "redneck" or ______ (pick your favorite cuss word) to espouse liberty. I think that will happen slower in Wyoming than where DJ and I currently live.

Many current high school history books are wrong. There was a piece on Fox news this morning at about 5 AM where they were reading from current textbooks, citing what was wrong, and giving the names and addresses of the CEOs of the publishers and urging people to write them. One example that stood out was a currently widely used Houghton Mifflin high school history book. The section on "terrorism" mentioned Timothy McVeigh. Period. Nothing on Muslim extremism. And the part on FOIA was wrong. As was the part on the history of the ERA. Not biased, but wrong. They mentioned a few teachers they knew who had to use the book, who told the kids to write in the margins with additional info and corrections as the teachers brought them up.

I know one libertarian school teacher. He teaches high school chemistry in a southern state. Old buddy of mine. Not sure he can do much from there, but he's a good guy.

History as it's being written in real time is wrong too. Eric Holder, current (gun hating) Attorney General this week called America a "nation of cowards" because white people aren't flocking in droves to move into black neighborhoods. Also, Holder took the name of his speech "Nation of Cowards" from the title of a prominent pro-gun pro-freedom book. Is that an accident?

The US-fueled drug war (yes, I'm now thoroughly convinced it's a horrible idea) is fueling Mexico's drug-fueled civil war which is creeping north.
http://rc3.org/2008/05/09/our-drug-war-feeds-mexicos-civil-war/

Me and mine want to move AS SOON AS POSSIBLE and live on 30+ acres (as we've always wanted, but are now quite pushed to action by reading "Surviving Y2K and Other Lovely Disasters", and other Boston books). Doing this might give us a chance at dying of old age.

I think we're going to need everything on this "Capability Checklist", which someone on here was kind enough to post:
http://www.alpharubicon.com/~kwll/

And we'd like to do it twice, as Boston suggests, having 1/2 twice rather than all in one place. None of that will be cheap.

We will look for private attorney work for Debra Jean (which also wouldn't guarantee "purity", think of all the heinous things you've seen private attorneys do in your life), but gov work in a non-JBT agency might be the best bet to accomplish all these goals.

I turn 45 in May. Debra Jean turns 50 while we're in Wyoming in June. A decade or so of "golden handcuffs" in WY might just give us a bit of a fighting chance to make a protectable nest for our golden years, and also to have something to pass on to those we love.

Anyway, my friend says "If two libertarians agree on anything, one of them has sold out his values." 

I remember being in Europe and having lib-anarchists berating me for having Windows on my laptop instead of Linux. Because running Windows was "supporting an evil corporation." They were running "pure" Linux. But they were running it on computers made by huge "evil corporations" and singing anti-gov anti-big business punk rock protest songs on electric guitars made by huge "evil corporations." (And they were often squatting in squalor and eating out of dumpsters because there was no "pure" work to be had.)

Everyone's hands are dirty in one way or another. It's just a matter of degrees, unless you live in a cave.

-- Michael "the world is going to hell, my dear, and I wish to step out of its way" Dean

<---- end rant ---->

[Paul Bonneau]

Everyone's hands are dirty in one way or another. It's just a matter of degrees, unless you live in a cave.

What a wonderful rationalization. One might call it the "universal rationalization", it can be used almost everywhere, and for everything.

Sure, OK, it's a matter of degree. I am not advocating living in a cave, or avoiding the use of roads. You can set your mind easy about that.

I will even admit that "working within the system" sometimes works. Example, homeschooling or concealed carry. While both have roots in "lawless" conduct, it's probably the case that they spread far and wide due in part to government "legitimizing" of them. And now the cat is out of the bag, and can't be put back. And "non-compliant" homeschoolers and gun carriers will win out in the end, I think.

But, there's a huge difference between making compromises forced on you by the system (due to lack of free alternatives, e.g. roads) - and feeding at the government trough when alternatives DO exist (e.g. government school). And there is a huge difference between that - and being part of the system. To be part of the system means you are a recipient of stolen money, just as disreputable (even more disreputable, in my opinion) as buying from the local fence selling stolen stereos. It means you get job security and a fat pension that people outside government can only dream of. It means your job depends on violence. If you are someone like a cop or building inspector, it means your job is violence. Violence, dolled up to look like protection.

And that thing about good teachers, to offset the bad ones? John Taylor Gatto, and most of the other founders of the homeschooling movement, were teachers for much of their lives. When were they right? When they were inside the system, trying to save kids? Or when they were outside, trying to get kids out? They finally recognized that the system did not want them! The only "good" the good teachers do, is keep the system going when it would otherwise have collapsed if they all left. Gatto and the rest are doing the right thing now, when they are outside the system, criticizing it, getting parents to pull their kids, setting up alternative, independent ways of teaching kids. NOW they are helping freedom. They sure weren't before they left the system.

Maybe FSP's goal is to get people in government positions. One can always run for the legislature - then refuse the paycheck. Then you still can look at that guy in the mirror every morning. Or, you can take those 30 pieces of silver.

Folks, the LP has become compromised even before they got into power. How libertarian do you think they'd be after getting comfortable in positions of power for a few years? "Meet the new boss; same as the old boss." It works the same for teachers, cops and everyone else. You can't remain virtuous in a vile place. You are not Jesus, not a saint. You are just a regular schmuck like the rest of us, able to rationalize any behavior at all.

The path to freedom is disconnecting from the system, as much as you possibly can stand to do. The path to freedom is by finding other ways to get things done. Don't take anything from it, don't give anything to it (willingly), and certainly don't become a part of it. The system can't be changed, can't be reformed. YOU however can be changed by it.

[MamaLiberty]

Thanks Paul, I've been saying much the same for years now. I don't try to speak for anyone but myself, but that doesn't prevent others from misunderstanding what I say. My principles have not changed, but I've had to adapt to some hard realities in order to help others to understand those principles - such as being willing to teach the concealed carry class for the local Sheriff when I don't believe in the least that such a "permit" is moral. I've come to know the Sheriff here as a good guy, and just maybe have helped him (and some of the students) see liberty in a new light. Who knows?

So, each person must decide these things for themselves. We are each responsible for the consequences of our choices and actions. Few of them will be perfect, especially in retrospect, and few will meet any "purity test". We can work hard to meet that test ourselves, but we can destroy ourselves and all hope for peace trying to hold each other to OUR own idea of purity.

We must all be ready and willing to defend ourselves against aggression, but give careful thought to that, and to what that realistically includes. It's not always possible in the non physical world. Do we destroy our relationships by screaming at each other over different interpretations?

How does "live and let live" apply here? Maybe, in the absence of immediate, physical aggression, we must simply agree to disagree.

I don't know. Just asking.