Author Topic: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?  (Read 21369 times)

Offline MichaelNotMike

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2010, 10:02:02 AM »
Republicans made me a Democrat.
Then Democrats drove me to being a Republican.
Republicans drove me to be a libertarian.
Libertarians drove me back to being a Republican.
Republicans drove me to be an anarchist.

I LIKE  ;D

It's a combination of something I think Paul B. said, and someone's sigline somewhere, extrapolated into my journey.

The "Libertarians drove me back to being a Republican" part is based on arguing online with a handful of young live-at-home vegan pacifist "libertarians" who support the Second Amendment but think I'm nuts for carrying a gun, owning more than one rifle and telling them "libertarians who don't own guns are theorists."

That inspired a line in our new movie, where Neema raps -

"Freedom fiends, there's one thing that I gotta make clear:
If you ain't about your heater then you're nothing but a theorist.
You can read and type, but when the jackers comin',
I know you'll lose the fight on your a** with your thumb in."

MWD
Anti-war, pro-gun.

Offline MichaelNotMike

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2010, 10:08:59 AM »

The "anarchy" you appear to be afraid of is embodied in the current situation...lawless-ness based strictly on might or majority with fancy pieces of paper justifying the actions.


Yup. Anarchy has a bad name. It has been converted to meaning "chaos." (Even by punk rockers who adopted the "circle A" as a symbol.....I actually liked the European punks more in this respect. Many of the ones on the Continent have actually read some classic anarcho theory. Though they tend to be left anarchist, not anarcho capitalist. And most are on the dole. But the American punkers usually thought "anarchy" was an excuse to break stuff.)

My favorite explanation of the various perceptions of the word "anarchy" comes from (of course), The Simpsons....Where Bart is running for school president, and his nerd opponent has a sign that says "A vote for Bart is a vote for anarchy!"

Bart has a sign that says exactly the same thing.

MWD
Anti-war, pro-gun.

Offline TexasGirl

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2010, 08:21:54 PM »

The "Libertarians drove me back to being a Republican" part is based on arguing online with a handful of young live-at-home vegan pacifist "libertarians" who support the Second Amendment but think I'm nuts for carrying a gun, owning more than one rifle and telling them "libertarians who don't own guns are theorists."



You Michael?  Oh my gosh!  I had no idea you owned more than one rifle. 

Why would anyone need more than one of those things??

~TG
Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Offline MichaelNotMike

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2010, 08:35:52 PM »

The "Libertarians drove me back to being a Republican" part is based on arguing online with a handful of young live-at-home vegan pacifist "libertarians" who support the Second Amendment but think I'm nuts for carrying a gun, owning more than one rifle and telling them "libertarians who don't own guns are theorists."



You Michael?  Oh my gosh!  I had no idea you owned more than one rifle. 

Why would anyone need more than one of those things??

~TG


I know, I know, guns are bad, um'kay?

MWD
Anti-war, pro-gun.

Offline TexasGirl

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2010, 09:23:23 PM »

I know, I know, guns are bad, um'kay?

MWD



Oh, I didn't really say they were bad, just can't figure why anyone would need so much.  What's the theory behind it?

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Offline MichaelNotMike

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2010, 09:25:40 PM »
I dunno, ask TexasGirl, she's got a bunch o' guns!


MWD
Anti-war, pro-gun.

Offline MichaelNotMike

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2010, 09:26:22 PM »
It's like fire extinguishers. I hope to never have to use those either, but I still have one in every room.

MWD
Anti-war, pro-gun.

Offline TexasGirl

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2010, 09:39:59 PM »
LOL.  I only have two hands, so I mainly carry a handgun (for each).   
Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Offline jscottdavis04

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2010, 01:10:34 AM »
Yup. Anarchy has a bad name.

I can't remember where I heard this (although I've seen it from a number of different sources) but if you look at the history of the term "libertarian" it was invented by French anarchists who didn't want to get arrested for being anarchists. So, they made up a new name and confused everyone.

So, recently I have been thinking a lot about the assumption that chaos would inevitably ensue in a stateless society. However, this is based almost solely upon the assumption that all humans are inherently evil. Like Manumit said, the criminals will always be criminals (both the black market and government types)... he and I were discussing this in relation to Constitutional Carry--do you think a felon gives a care whether he or she is allowed to own a firearm or not?? The only thing this type of regulation accomplishes is subjecting law-abiding citizens who actually care about the law to ever-increasing fees, paperwork, background checks... basically, being treated like criminals for choosing not to be a criminal. The same can be said of these CBP checkpoints that I always like talking about--do you think the illegals are going to drive up to one of these booths and be questioned at gunpoint about where they are going and where they were born? Hell, no.

So, the criminals will always be criminals. But what about the rest of us who go through ridiculous lengths to deal with the endless knot of mind-numbing regulations the state foists on us? The assumption that all of us will turn into murderous thieves is based upon a fundamental assumption that the only reason we go through all that trouble is because we're afraid of being punished. I tend to think we go through all this crap (me included) due to a misplaced sense of honor and right vs. wrong. In short, this assumption of inevitable chaos is based upon an assumption of a fallen or sinful human nature--this is a premise that I fully and completely reject.
"We exhibit to mankind the remarkable spectacle of a people attacked by unprovoked enemies, without any imputation or even suspicion of offence. They boast of their privileges and civilization, and yet proffer no milder conditions than servitude or death."
-The Continental Congress, 1775

Offline Stratispho

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2010, 07:56:11 AM »
I think that the book "Everyday Anarchy" by Stefan Molynoux does a great job in discussing the term Anarchy. www.freedomainradio.com/free.html

It’s hard to know whether a word can ever be rehabilitated – or whether the attempt
should even be made...
Some words can never be rehabilitated – and neither should they be. Nazi, evil, incest,
abuse, rape, murder – these are all words which describe the blackest impulses of the
human soul, and can never be turned to a good end...
The word “anarchy” may be almost beyond redemption – any attempt to find goodness in it
could well be utterly futile – or worse; the philosophical equivalent of the clichéd scene in
hospital dramas where the surgeon blindly refuses to give up on a clearly dead patient...


It's well worth the read and he passes the books out via his website. www.freedomainradio.com/free.html
I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all, and pledge perpetual opposition to the Republic of the United States, and to the control and tyranny for which it stands.

Offline DarkSide

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2010, 08:34:16 AM »
lol,  "Anarchy" doesn't have a lot to complain about - look what they did to the word "liberal."

How that happy little word evolved a colloquial definition of "freedom hating, big gubmint promoting, elitist nanny stater" I'll never figure out.

Offline Stratispho

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2010, 11:10:59 AM »
Great point DS.
I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all, and pledge perpetual opposition to the Republic of the United States, and to the control and tyranny for which it stands.

Offline cody

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2010, 10:01:29 AM »
Has anyone read, "Unintended Consequences" by Ross a friend mentioned it, so I looked it up on Amazon, they want a fortune for it.  So much that it peaked my curiosity. Gun rights seems to be the main theme.

enJoy,
Cody
Chance favors the prepared

Offline MamaLiberty

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2010, 10:26:52 AM »
Yes, I'd say that was an insane price. It isn't available in soft cover or kindle, e-format either.

Personally, I did not like the book at all, but that's just my opinion.

See if you can find one in a library or borrow one from someone here. The FSW library may have a copy. Send a PM to Jared and he can tell you.

Far as I'm concerned, "Neither Predator Nor Prey" by our own Mark Spungin is a far better story all around.

Look here: http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=6669.0
It's not that people are dumber, it's that stupidity used to be more painful.

Offline clemmac

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Re: Social liberty/libertarianism? Foreign policy?
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2010, 10:51:48 AM »
Just two days ago, I noticed a copy on one of our bookshelves.  I'd better lock the darn book in a safe  :o

I'll agree with MamaLiberty, it isn't a worthy buy at those prices.  It's been years since I read the book, but do remember it introducing some concepts that I had not thought of before I read them there.  If you find a copy at a reasonable price, it may be worth your time reading the book.