FSW .999 silver coins -- NOW SOLD OUT!

[Boston]

Quantity orders of the FSW coins will expire Friday 2/24/2006.
Orders (cash only) postmarked by then will be accepted (per availability).

After Friday, it's one coin per customer and address.?
The price will henceforth be $18 + $2 s&h (cash only), subject to increase as supply dwindles.

Boston

6 April 2006 price update.

Since silver is rapidly climbing and just closed over $12,
we now accept orders only based on the postmarked
date of spot price (+ $13:  $10 premium and $3 S&H).

The below image is from:
http://kitconet.com/images/sp_en_6.gif



Take spot price, round up/down to the nearest dollar,
add $13, and send that amount in cash.  (Print out the
spot quote and include with order, please.)

Javelin Press
POB 31SC
Ignacio, Co. 81137-0031

We've a forum thread on precious metals:
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=1993.0;topicseen
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[godscarp]

The Carps will take a couple....shoulda' thought of this yesterday when I went to the PO   I'll drop it in the mail tomorrow. Carp

[godscarp]

Boston,
   I've been pondering this coin issue.  You mentioned 1000oz and then 95#s........?
If as a group we can monetarily agree on an "exchange" rate for goods and services
then the coins become FSW "currency".  We've all got something to sell or barter for these coins.  I can build gun cabinets and I'm sure that I can find a sawmill that'll take silver for wood.  Outside of our group,  we have to go spot plus whatever we can get.  Granted you bankrolled this go-round, but if you had enough folks ante up the cost of a  pound or more to fill the minting requirement in return for say 6 coins/# and the option to buy more at cost plus.  The balance would become P&O to fund the activities of this movement.  I'm looking at it from the stand point of an investment in FSW.  So what do I really "lose" on the wood transaction?  ......"whatever you treasure, there lies your heart" Lk 12:34

    As Libertarians we don't want taxes but freedom isn't cheap.  Hell, look at what we now pay in taxes and we certainly are not investing in future freedoms.  Besides, if we pay 20 FRNs for a coin we have a "store of  value".  Even if you run off to Costa Rica, I still have 1/2 my expenditure in hard assests!
    The inflation hedge is also a huge aspect.  What of marketing these coins in Jackson or at Frontier Days or Sturgis.  Trade Mark the logo and tap the tourist market with t-shirts and hats.  Fill the coffers and buy some BLM auction land for a range and only accept coins as payment....... Whatta' I know I'm just a stupid carpenter.........  I obviously don't know how all of this has been financed prior to me chipping in this BS........but investing in freedom for the future of my kids sounds pretty cheap to me.


"....... much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more." Lk 12:48

Carp

[Boston]

Carp,

One can buy generic silver 1oz. "rounds" for spot plus 50-80 cents, so these commemorative FSW coins
are not the best way to buy .999 silver for the silver's sake alone (if that is one's goal).

Owning a good supply of gold and silver bullion is a fine idea for nearly everybody.
But make sure you have your firearms, ammo, food, and tools first.
Bullion is only money, and it is the necessities which we really want, not the money.

Regarding the FSW coins as money, there probably is enough of them in circulation (or even existence)
for that, but I'm open to an FSW syndicate having 10,000+ minted as a private "monetary" base. 
Minting cost/coin will be at least $2 with all costs included, so we'd be paying an extra $1.50/FSW coin
for the coolness of trading FSW coins vs. generic rounds containing exactly the same amount of .999 silver.

Would enough people judge that additional $1.50 worth it?  Unknown.

1000oz for the business strike coins and 100oz for the proofs.
1100oz/12 troy oz = 91.7llbs + some packing materials (i.e., an ammo can w/i a cardboard box).

Boston

[godscarp]

Boston,

     Before I posted last night,  I went to Frugal's and read through some of the barter posts.  Wondering about spot/plus.  From what I gathered, for US silver coins, (not "junk') the going rate seemd to be about a buck and a half over spot.  Folks like Buckshot will accept silver for his videos, traps and snares.  I'm sure there are plenty more besides.  Used by folks as a medium of exchange, IMHO would be a vehicle create some revenue for FSW.
     I rember reading in the Idaho Observer about the guy that started the , I think, Liberty coins and the script.  There were people in Victor and Hamilton, MT using the coins to buy just about everything.
A father and son were arrested at a Buffalo Sabers hockey game for using the coins or script to buy beer!   So who knows.

I just mailed off FRNs for 2 coins.

Carp

[Boston]

A father and son were arrested at a Buffalo Sabers hockey game for using the coins or script to buy beer!

Coins or the NORFED notes redeemable in coins?  I forget which.
Apparently, they got a bit stroppy about being refused, which fomented their arrest.

If you're paying more than $1 over spot for generic rounds, you're not shopping around enough.

"Junk" silver is worn U.S. silver coinage, of 90% or 40% content.
It sells for a multiple of ___ times face value.
Choose dimes over quarters and halves.  Same amount of silver, but greater divisibility.

[Daveasxx]

If you don't mind ordering over the internet this site has about the best prices I've been able to find...their APMEX silver rounds are a decent value and sometimes they have "not new" APMEX rounds that are even closer to spot.  Right now they have sterling silver rounds for as low as .01 over melt value.  Pretty good.

Dave

http://www.apmex.com/

[rhodges]

From what I gathered, for US silver coins, (not "junk') the going rate seemd to be about a buck and a half over spot. 

(Note: lots of personal opinion follows, so please read it as just that... opinion)

Do you mean specifically coins minted by the Goverment ("coins") or just any silver "rounds" minted here?  If you do mean coins, the only non-junk coins I can think of are the US Silver Eagles and numismatic silver.  Personally, I do not consider numismatic coins for two reasons.  First, the premium over silver content depends on other people also valuing them for scarcity and suggests strongly to me the "greater fool" investment theory.  Now, some people really do seem to enjoy collecting numismatics, and that's great.  But that is for personal enjoyment.  I would not recommend them as an investment.  The Silver Eagles do indeed seem to carry a hefty premium, as you say, a buck and a half from both CNI and Tulving.  They are indeed nice looking, but personally I would not buy more than a modest number for personal "enjoyment" and for giving as gifts.

Every penny needlessly spent on premiums over the silver content is a penny that can not be used to buy silver

Now if you are loosely using the word "coins" to also include silver rounds, then we can get more silver for our FRNs   Unfortunately, fifty cents seems to be the common premium over spot, but as spot price edges toward ten bucks an ounce, the hit doesn't seem quite as bad as it used to.  I have often noticed that both CNI and Tulving list their spot closing price a few cents higher than what I though the real closing price was.  I could be mistaken, of course, and I would recommend either one of them; just keep your eyes open   Since the spread seems to almost always be buy at spot and sell at plus fifty cents, I mentally figure that I could get 25 or 30 cents over spot in a private person to person deal.

I have not done business with APMEX, but I have read many good reports about them.  Just be aware of the shipping charges.  Right now, they have some 10oz bars at ten cents over spot   I would prefer those over the 1/2 to 3 ounce sterling bars and rounds.  In this case, I would spend a few extra cents to get my metal in a known size and purity that everyone understands.

Used by folks as a medium of exchange, IMHO would be a vehicle create some revenue for FSW.

I am not in favor of the practice of seniorage, that is, taking a large profit from the minting of a trade money.  If someone else wants to do it and others are willing to pay the premium, that's fine with me.  For instance, I have nothing particularly good to say about that guy selling "Liberty Dollars" where he sells an ounce of silver for $20.  Huh?!  The way I see it, I could buy almost twice the silver just by buying generic rounds.  And (in my opinion, as always!) his paper notes are just not the same as holding real silver.  This guy might be the most honest fellow in the world, but if something happens and I cannot go to his vault to redeem his notes for silver, they might as well be FRNs.

My motto is, "If you do not have the PHYSICAL metal, you do NOT have it."  Obviously, one does not need to keep the metal in the house, just that it must not be under someone else's control.

[Boston]

Bullion bars are more difficult to move and fetch less of a premium.
I bought several when accumulating silver for the FSW coin minting,
and paid very little over spot for them.

Go generic 1oz. rounds.? Most are 39mm in diameter, 20/plastic tube.
Silver U.S. Eagles are beautiful coins, but overpriced for sheer silver acquisition.

NORFED:? I like Bernie von Nothaus and his vision, but have never understood
the $ face value of his coins/currency.? It guarantees an everchanging price
equilibrium, and without any compelling reason.? He tried to explain at Eris why
people should buy his coins at 2x spot price, but without success.?
(Some guffaws were heard...)

They're beautiful coins (and I even have a gold ounce!), but 2x spot?? C'mon...
Richard, thanks for reminding me to redeem the "$40" in NORFEDs I have.
I'd rather have the coins, too.

Boston

[rhodges]

[I have not done business with APMEX, but I have read many good reports about them.  Just be aware of the shipping charges.  Right now, they have some 10oz bars at ten cents over spot   I would prefer those over the 1/2 to 3 ounce sterling bars and rounds.

Oops!  It was actually the 100 ounce bars that APMEX had for ten cents over spot.  Their generic rounds are not too bad at $10.13 though (38 cents over spot). 

Here comes another "personal opinion"
Although I have owned 100 ounce bars in the past, I will probably never buy another.  It seems that during the silver boom around 1980, there were some scoundrels drilling out the 100 ounce bars and filling with lead.  Lead is very close to silver in specific density, so it would not be obvious without careful weighing or some other verification.  Right now, silver is still selling for a low price, but some day the price will be much higher and we may see drilling and filling again.  Even if I completely trust my vendor today, how will I assure the 100 ounce bar's content later when selling to a concerned buyer?  Once ounce and probably ten ounce bars will be much too difficult to drill and fill, so I don't see any problem with those.  And the price difference is literally pennies an ounce, so why would I even be tempted to buy 100 ounce bars?

By the way, there is an awesome amount of information on precious metals can find a plethora at:
http://www.goldismoney.info
There is also a lot of talk about investing, politics, conspiracy, and downright crazy stuff too

[Daveasxx]

One of the reasons I prefer silver over gold is that a lot of it is actually consumed.  ie:  anything electronic, water purification, many more.  OK, and it's poor mans gold...and...well...I'm not exactly rich (in money anyway)...lol.  Add to that the fact that there haven't been any new (major..ie: really big) deposits of silver discovered in the world in something like 10+ years...  It's just my opinion but I think silver will hit 18 FRN in next 5 years, maybe even 20 FRN.  In any investment 100% in five years is pretty nice.  I don't have any ideas after that.  If the national debt keeps climbing, baby-boomers keep wanting SS, inflation spikes, then who knows.  I think everyone should have silver and gold (the physical metal) in their posession.  Ideally, small regular purchases over a long period of time.  The one thing I have noticed about what I call "gold bugs" (gold, silver metal holders) is that they are always ahead later in life.  Just my opinion and observation.  I wish I'd purchased an oz of silver every month of my adult life and maybe an oz of gold every year. 

Dave

[rhodges]

One of the reasons I prefer silver over gold is that a lot of it is actually consumed.  ie:  anything electronic, water purification, many more.

Yep, depending on whom you ask, there are somewhere over one hundred million ounces used every year over what is produced and reclaimed.  For decades, this deficit has been made up from a vast (six to ten billions of ounces?) selloff by the US government, but they have run out not too long ago.  So it probably won't be too many years before the market realizes that there is not enough to go around.  Well, at least at today's low prices anyway.  Many or most of the silver consumers will buy the metal regardless of the price, and you can guess what that will do to the markets.  Here are a couple interesting articles on this:
http://www.investmentrarities.com/04-25-05.html
http://www.investmentrarities.com/08-30-05.html

It's just my opinion but I think silver will hit 18 FRN in next 5 years, maybe even 20 FRN.  In any investment 100% in five years is pretty nice.  I don't have any ideas after that.  If the national debt keeps climbing, baby-boomers keep wanting SS, inflation spikes, then who knows.

I think we will see a lot more action than that   The US government is in a tight spot, between domestic obligations, the trade deficit and all those foreigners holding US funds (forever? I think not!).  The money supply has been increasing by 5% or more year after year, and they are going to stop reporting the M3 (sum of all available "money") in just twenty-seven days.  That is just a couple days after the next terror attack, and a few before the US bombs Iran.  Coincidence?  (Well, we will have to wait and see how close my fears area to reality.)

[Daveasxx]

There not going to report M3 anymore?  Was that part of your prediction?  I had not heard that.  If that's true I do not like it at all.  They will be able to print whatever they want and no one will know until after the inflation bomb has dropped.  Of course they could blame that on energy or something...

Dave

[rhodges]

There not going to report M3 anymore?  Was that part of your prediction?

The M3 reports will stop on March 23, as decided by the Federal Reserve board of governors:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/RELEASES/h6/discm3.htm

Iran has made it clear that they intend to stop trading in dollars and start using Euros on March 20, and they will also be setting up some kind of exchange market ("bourse") that may attract other oil markets to trade in Euros.  I believe that the US government will perceive this as an act of war, and will "arrange" for a terror attack that points to the Iranians, and use this as a pretext to use nuclear devices on Iran.  That's just my fear, anyway.

[Boston]

from rhodges:

It seems that during the silver boom around 1980, there were some scoundrels drilling out the 100 ounce bars and filling with lead.? Lead is very close to silver in specific density, so it would not be obvious without careful weighing or some other verification.

Yes, that's true.? It happened in the 1980s, I believe.

One mint I received a quote from was adamant about not accepting
Englehardt 100oz. bars (which I'd already purchased).? It damaged some
of their kilns, costing them days and $$$$$ of cleanup.

So, I went instead to NWTM, who had no problem with the bars.

Richard makes an unassailable point about choosing rounds over bars.
You want divisibility and less chance for fraud.

The dollar is on its last international legs, and the USG is getting panicky, for without a perceived strength in the dollar,
it cannot conduct economic imperialism.? (Its military can only do so much...)? An attack on Iran for going Euro would be a
final act of desperation.? We could only muster a brief air war at best.? Forget any ground invasion.

To hide M3 figures is like an alcoholic hiding his credit card receipts from his wife.
At some point, the wife won't even need them to know that he's a hopeless drunk.
But by that time, the family is wrecked.

Boston

P.S.? This is all the more reason to buy a few FSW coins!   

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