member of the FSP-NH

[maxxoccupancy]

I am currently a member of the Free State Project in NH.  There is definitely a lot of activism in the Granite State, but little awareness of the amount of activity in the Montana or Wyoming efforts.

[Boston]

The FSW is not an activist org, and FSWers generally
prefer to first become good neighbors and good friends
with the locals before try to sell libertarianism. 

I.e., our model and approach differ from yours.
It's been discussed at length here, and even on the FSP
forum (a couple of years ago).

Best of luck to you in NH!

Boston

[maxxoccupancy]

The only point that I was trying to make (I don't communicate well in these fora) was that most FSP-NH folks are unaware that the Wyoming and Montana efforts are attracting as many people as they are.  Few people out west post on the freestateproject.org forum, and very few of the NH folks actually check out here to see that there are a lot of people making the move to one of the western states.

[wyomiles]

Howdy Maxx, as Boston has said we just go about things a little more quetly. I pray for success with each and every FS project. Hopefully we can all be brothers and sisters in this thing. I spent some time early on with the FSP but was never going to move East so FSW was a great option for me.

[Danl]

Howdy Maxx, as Boston has said we just go about things a little more quetly. I pray for success with each and every FS project. Hopefully we can all be brothers and sisters in this thing. I spent some time early on with the FSP but was never going to move East so FSW was a great option for me.

Same here.  I opted out of everything except, WY, ID, and MT.  When NH came up I was done because there is no way that I am moving East.  So I think maybe it is all going to work out for the best with multiple movements.

What has ever happened with Jason?  I think the last I knew his wife was sick.  How is she doing?

Regards, Danl

[maxxoccupancy]

I'm pretty sure that she's all right.  I don't stay in contact with Jason much, myself.  I have been one of the folks advocating a discussion and vote on an alternate state, and some of the FSP-NH doesn't like hearing about that.  Recently, FSP Board members have even been telling me to go create a separate forum somewhere for all of the folks interested in looking into choosing an alternate state.  I'm pretty sure that Wyoming would win that vote, but I'm just hazarding a guess.

I also voted for western states (Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Alaska...) because I grew up in western Washington and I'm pretty familiar with the libertarian culture of the West.  I even opted out of the northern New England states because I understood the increasingly negative impact of socialist migrations, even into NH.  This state is getting a lot of the yuppy liberals who think that they're helping the poor by voting to raise everyone else's taxes, but who then move to tax havens like NH to avoid paying those taxes.  That happened to my home state of Washington, and I hate seeing this go on elsewhere.

For WY and MT, there have been a lot of inaccurate posts on NH boards that the western effort is pretty much dead.  Because it's such a sore topic, mentioning the fact that the western effort is very much alive actually invites a lot of flaming, uncivil behavior, and further suggestions that members just leave NH.  You can look at the freestateproject.org and nhfree.com forum to see that debatatarians are really hurting the movement here.  We've achieved a lot of political changes (amended the State Constitution to improve property rights protection, made it easier for homeschoolers, stopped a lot of bad laws, tossed out quite a few bad politicians, elected some of our own), but there have been some internal problems that are not going away with time.

[Boston]

For WY and MT, there have been a lot of inaccurate posts on NH boards that the western effort is pretty much dead.  Because it's such a sore topic, mentioning the fact that the western effort is very much alive actually invites a lot of flaming, uncivil behavior, and further suggestions that members just leave NH.  You can look at the freestateproject.org and nhfree.com forum to see that debatatarians are really hurting the movement here.  We've achieved a lot of political changes (amended the State Constitution to improve property rights protection, made it easier for homeschoolers, stopped a lot of bad laws, tossed out quite a few bad politicians, elected some of our own), but there have been some internal problems that are not going away with time.

I haven't been on the FSP forum for probably two years now.
My last post there was to congratulate you all for the election
of the first FSPer to the NH state as one of your 400 legislators.
It happened to be, in effect, a good parting post for me. 

Thus, I'm not informed about what your forum debatarians are
howling about. 

The Western and Wyoming state efforts are far, far from dead.
Granted, if anyone relied solely upon the FSW website for news,
it probably appears so, but since the online action for the FSW
has always been our forum.  We've had many dozens of relocators
by now, and many of them have formed their own knots of
friendships and even business relations.

While the FSP has a regularly updated website and lots of local
energy, we're just more laidback out here.  Also, the FSW reflects
my scheme of "phenomenon" over a highly publicized activist movement. 

I hazard a guess that most of the FSP's internal problems stem from the
fact that the FSP is a highly organized entity, which is given to strife
amongst the decision-makers.  But, again, that's just my guess.
AAR, I hope things smoothen out for the FSP.  I admire the commitment
and accomplishments of you all there, however done in another state
and in a different fashion than my own vision.

For Freedom,
Boston

[maxxoccupancy]

I just saw this video on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XgkeTanCGI

Naomi Wolf is obviously not the only one sounding the alarm, but it's clearly time now, that something be done.  We can't simply stand by and let things fall apart like this.  They are already deploying the First Brigade into the US at the whim of the President.  This is a dangerous precedent.  Members of Congress were even threatened with marshal law if they did not approve these bailouts.

[alexspartan]

Well, what do you mean, Maxx?  What would you propose?  I would agree, if you mean on the local, or state, level.  But, definitely not on any kind of large-scale level.

I'll admit, I admire Naomi Wolf, mostly due to the fact that she doesn't worry about maintaining that 'feminist' image that so many feminists do.

I believe, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, that we are a tiny minority.  So tiny that we can have no real effect in political efforts.  (The Ron Paul rEVOLution is a great example).  As much as I don't want it to be real, we have no chance of changing America.  The country cannot be "saved".  I'd even argue that it isn't our business trying to "liberate" the huge majority of Americans.  If they want to be slaves, that's their choice.  And, most of them do want to be slaves; they don't want freedom, because it means responsibility.  They don't want to be responsible, they want a caretaker who will make sure they're always comfortable and having fun.

Both the caretaker and the children strongly dislike us, at the very least, for our defiance.  Some even hate us.


I'm a member of the Campaign for Liberty at my college, along with less than a dozen other people.  We've acknowledged that, despite all the effort we will put forth, our success rate at changing people's minds even a little will be very, very small, even with the insane political and socioeconomic farces being played out in Washington and Wall Street.  Why do we do it?  I can't speak for them, but I do it because it gives me a chance to meet other like-minded people whom I could perhaps persuade to look into the free state projects, either NH or WY, even though I'm moving to Wyoming at the soonest opportunity.

Remember, people have been doing liberty-related political activism since the 60's, and things have steadily been getting worse.  One could argue, I suppose, that the amount of activism has increased as well.  But, it still hasn't been enough.  Eventually, the fascist/statist elements in the government will cause it to collapse in on itself, or activists may even succeed quite a bit.  I don't know, I can't predict the future with any good amount of certainty.  One thing that I can ensure, at least to the best of my ability, is my own survival, and I would much rather be in Wyoming or New Hampshire when anything happens.

This is a great response to further national political movements and activism:

http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2008/07/what-is-to-be-done-question-and-answer.html

[maxxoccupancy]

There's that it-can't-be-done attitude, again.  That amazes me.  I have been able to convince so many people so easily, from individuals to very large groups.  I have an easy time convincing both young and old of the necessity to legalize drugs, return to currency backed by gold and silver, and get back to constitutionally limited government.  I have an easy time doing this, yet I'm never allowed to speak publicly at any freestater event.  I've asked many times, and I get turned down.  My political instincts are so keen, but it does no good without help from other liberty types.  When I've demonstrated my ability to persuade, I'm always told, "You're preaching to the choir," no matter what group I'm talking to.

[alexspartan]

I've also 'convinced' many people.  I even tricked a socialist friend of mine, in a way that would have made Socrates proud, to admit that socialism actually sucks, and that the anarchist-market is actually an amazingly awesome system for solving damn near every problem.  I even had him admit that gun control has never been to decrease crime, and that any further gun control is completely unnecessary and would in fact be detrimental.

But, they almost always go back to what they believe, because it's easy and convenient.  This is what my friend did.  He's voting for Obama.

I don't know why you think that movements like this can succeed on the national scale.  We aren't just going up against ignorant voters (redundant, I know); it isn't an issue of making more people aware.  What we're talking about is a complete reversal of direction of the government, and of the country.  We're going up against national socialists and fascists who have had over a hundred years to perfect their methods of indoctrination and Hegelian tactics.  Not to mention that they also have the backing of all major financial and business institutions, who will be quite upset if their various 'investments' are threatened.  How do you explain McCain's ascension to the top of the Republican Party, even though he was getting practically no media coverage, even from the MSM, and no financial support?  Whereas, Ron Paul was breaking records of campaign contributions per day, got 2nd in the Nevada primary, was starting to get lots of media coverage, especially last November and December, and look at what happened to him.  Most people still don't really know anything but his name, although he has been interviewed more and more on Fox about the market.  To think that the corporate and financial interests, and their buddies in the media and in the government, didn't have some kind of hand in that is pretty naive.   

The task is monumentally impossible.

Need another example?  How about the HUGE resistance to the recent bailout bill.  Just search for stories about congressmen being threatened with Martial Law if the bill wasn't passed, or about the number of votes the congressional offices were getting.  Yet, Congress still voted it through.  The people in this country have no say as to what goes on, anymore.  I'm not sure if they ever did.  "A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years." - Lysander Spooner

It's simple tactics; you have to acknowledge that some fights you just can't win.  When that's the case, you just have to make sure that the cost of winning for your enemies is way, way too high.

And the best way to do that is through the free-state projects.

Now, one can convince fellow liberty-minded folk that the best way to do this is to move to a free state and work towards a freer future.  I'm all for that.  Like I said before, I've been  convincing the few people who are on the edge of our views on liberty to perhaps look into things more.  I'm trying to nudge them in the right direction. 
But, anything on the national level is impossible.

It can't be done.

[Boston]

But, anything on the national level is impossible.

It can't be done.

I also came to that conclusion, in 1997 after Hologram of Liberty.

Convincing individuals one at a time for the purposes of a
national effect is like trying to heat a bathtub with a Bic lighter.

Boston

[Danl]

Convincing individuals one at a time for the purposes of a
national effect is like trying to heat a bathtub with a Bic lighter.

Boston

"One at a time" or enmass -- this might be a good time to do a refresher on Isaiah's Job

• "One might suggest, therefore, that aspiring prophetical talent may well turn to another field. Sat patriae Priamoque datum – whatever obligation of the kind may be due the masses is already monstrously overpaid. So long as the masses are taking up the tabernacle of Moloch and Chiun, their images, and following the star of their god Buncombe, they will have no lack of prophets to point the way that leadeth to the More Abundant Life; and hence a few of those who feel the prophetic afflatus might do better to apply themselves to serving the Remnant. It is a good job, an interesting job, much more interesting than serving the masses and moreover it is the only job in our whole civilization, as far as I know, that offers a virgin field.";

Regards, Danl

[maxxoccupancy]

Hmmmm.  Yes, they still vote for Obama or McCain, but so do many libertarians--and constitutionalists, for that matter.  I hate seeing my green friends supporting the political establishment in this way, but people get too emotional about their presidential elections.  When you, as an individual, go out and talk to folks about the need to get the size of state government back down to size, when you doorbell and actually get your name out there, you win over the vast majority of folks you talk to.

At one time, we were all statist on at least some issues.  I win people over slowly, and I have been seeing those folks get into state and local issues, and I have seen them voting more proliberty.  Freedom has to be learned, and some of the folks we've talked to here have turned into great liberty activists, even recruiting their friends.

I've spoken to large groups and convinced most of the clear need to get money and control back to the local level, and that's a big winner as an issue.  Even on controversial issues like reverting to tuition funded schools and decriminalizing drugs, I've been able to win over large crowds.  Unfortunately, when I give the exact same speech to liberty folks (to teach them how to reach emotion driven people), they just say that I am preaching to the choir.  Then I get the, "It'll never work with the sheeple" lecture.  I just gave them the talk that works with emotion driven people, and they're telling me that it'll never work.

Gaaarrrrrr!!!  I already know that it works because it's the same speech that just worked!

[biathlon]

The primary difference between us(FSW) and your effort is that we rely entirely on inspired individuals to make whatever local changes they can rather than trying to corral everyone into a contrived effort. It IS working. We don't have to make speeches, spend $$$, or any of the time consuming stunts of the traditional political tactics. It works here because the culture of self reliance is still very much alive out here.
                             
                      "We'll be back before dark. You may as well bring dope and beer"