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To them, things like logic, reason, independence, etc are unequivocally foreign concepts.
It's funny, I've heard "liberals" and leftists make exactly the same comment about conservatives and libertarians. Cheesy
Problem is something else altogether. Problem is that reason as a word has been bastardized, it has had its meaning subverted, modified, changed, removed and replaced... Reason has been lobotomized by the brainwashers in politics and bureaucracy. Reason can mean reason, or it can mean the ability to compromise out of cowardice or some other form of fear. Indeed, "reasonable" has been changed to mean "amenable." Interesting how the "neue sprache" has come into being as per Eric Blair's vision (some of you know him by his pen name, George Orwell.)
Rather than see reason as a cause and effect and understanding thereof, they see reason as being able to give in to the demands of bandits or thugs in order to minimize conflict.
I side with Heinlein here... "peace is overrated." If the price of peace is eternal slavery... I'd sooner fight. Not die, mind you, but sooner fight, suffer and then WIN. A life lived in slavery to creatures I dearly detest with every part of my mind that I can be aware of, is not a life, but an lasting conscious death. A life spent fighting, at least animates the mind, and the body.
Or to put it in feminine terms, "if the price of peace, is submitting to rape, on demand by the rapist, whenever, and wherever and on whatever terms the rapist desires, then no, I would rather fight, even if the penalty for failing to win is death. Not fighting is certain death by a thousand cuts (or in this case, rapes)... no thanks to that.
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To put it in terms one can understand... I had surgery some years back. A fairly harmless procedure to clean up some damaged tissue, which then required a drain "fuse" (a fairly large one, and some stitches... 2 sessions worth, plus removal.)
Doc then tells me "you have to remove the fuse yourself, once it stops draining, after a few days, unless you want to pay for an extra visit, during which I will remove it, and then let it sit for another day, unhindered to dry up a little, then come in to get stitched up."
So after wandering about with a bloody bandage pouring out blood and... serum from the wound, I had to pull it out. I tried removing it, and discovered it was a bandage in a tender area with wounded tissue... very painful. The wound was still raw, and i had friends and family offering to help me remove it. I cowered for days pondering how to remove it once it stopped draining.
And then I had to make a choice. Be fearful of a quick bit of pain, or let that bandage rot in there, cause me further infection and perhaps a far more invasive procedure to cut out far more meat than I had lost in that small procedure. So I steeled myself, closed my teeth in case I might bite down and catch my tongue, and YANKED. And it hurt like hell! Sharp, agonizing pain. And since there was almost 2 feet of gauze stuffed into a 2 to 3 inch hole in my muscle, I proceeded to YANK again. After I was done pulling the bloody 'fuse' out... I was PROUD of myself. I didn't ask for anyone else's help. I did it myself. Therein lies the difference, to me reason wasn't the lack of pain in the process of making myself healthy. Reason was the ability to understand that short temporary pain, beats a permanent recurring infectious issue. So I was willing to suffer once to not suffer repeatedly in the future. This is what the collectivists don't get. If there wasn't a doctor there, or if I couldn't afford the extra visit, then being able to undergo pain at my own hands to avoid reinfection or further complications is an application of reason.
Collectivists can't do that. Pain scares them, risk scares them. They scare all of us, but a man of reason will not run away from risk, or from pain. Because a man of reason understands the greater implications of things. A collectivist or "amenable" man will surrender the moment the risk for pain, or the risk for loss is implied. He will also surrender the moment he is told to, because he is a coward. Cowards, as one says, die every day. A brave man only dies once. A wise or powerful man gets to pick when and where, and the TRULY powerful one figures out what the rest of us are still struggling with... that being, the process to not dying at all, or making death inconsequential to that individual. Not a single one of these will occur to the collectivist weakling, because he dies everyday, and yet still fears death, pain, or harm, despite subjecting himself to them every single day... willingly, out of his sheer fear of actually LIVING.
Meanwhile, I have dealt with having pain from a surgery and the process in cutting, stuffing, unstuffing, suturing and removing said sutures... and it did hurt, some parts more than others. I'm not afraid of it any longer... that's for sure. The collectivist cowards, afraid of a bit of minor pain, will let anyone else fight for them, and will only fight if "its safe." They fear shedding blood, even of their food, but are ok if someone else shoulders that burden. Collectivists of all stripes are merely the latest breed of insanity plaguing those of us having a go at being sane and living life... each his own life...