Wyoming VS Montana, Kentucky, Etc.. PLEASE Help!

[Derringer]

As I mentioned on another post  Janet and me are considering a move to WY. It is not set in stone, but we do know we REALLY need to get out of Vermont on Wednesday of next week. Considering all of my criteria in this order: 1) Personal freedom 2) Economic/Job Growth 3) Low cost of Living/Housing why would you choose WY over other states, and what do you think of other states rated as "free" like NM, AZ, KY, MT? All I know is one of the reasons I am fleeing VT is the influx of rich arrogant people who are working diligently to take my rights away and make Vermont like Massachusetts and New Jersey where they came from! Any input, or should I consider WY first choice and why? This is an important desicion for us since our apt needs to be vacant by Wed and we have only $3,500 to move. It has to be a sound decision, not just moving to another overpriced area with low wage jobs like Vermont or Seattle, WA. I really need help with this decision, Please

[Danl]

As I mentioned on another post? Janet and me are considering a move to WY. It is not set in stone, but we do know we REALLY need to get out of Vermont on Wednesday of next week. Considering all of my criteria in this order: 1) Personal freedom 2) Economic/Job Growth 3) Low cost of Living/Housing why would you choose WY over other states, and what do you think of other states rated as "free" like NM, AZ, KY, MT? All I know is one of the reasons I am fleeing VT is the influx of rich arrogant people who are working diligently to take my rights away and make Vermont like Massachusetts and New Jersey where they came from! Any input, or should I consider WY first choice and why? This is an important desicion for us since our apt needs to be vacant by Wed and we have only $3,500 to move. It has to be a sound decision, not just moving to another overpriced area with low wage jobs like Vermont or Seattle, WA. I really need help with this decision, Please

Derringer,
Sounds like you need a job right away and a place to stay once you get there.  Wyoming has jobs.  Places to stay are a little tougher but can be worked out.  Especially around Casper and some of those places.  As to freedom there is substantially more in Wyoming, but the statists are at work there as well.

Be ever vigilant.......  And best wishes, Danl

[MamaLiberty]

Too bad you didn't give yourself a bit more time to plan and make a decision, but we'll do the best we can to help.

Look here for county contacts and offers of help.
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum//index.php?board=10.0
Read some of this to learn more about why some have come here.
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum//index.php?board=8.0
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum//index.php?board=32.0
Why move to Wyoming? Lots of good stuff here.
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum//index.php?board=6.0
Jobs and employment opportunities here.
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum//index.php?board=11.0
Housing and real estate:
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum//index.php?board=12.0

Far too much available on the forum to list it all, but this will get you started.

God speed, and we'll help all we can. MamaLiberty

[Jack-O]

skip all the other states except MT and WY.  they are occupied territory.  I have spent extensive time in NM and AZ and can vouch for the fact that they suck.
I have been to a lot of WY and for the most part it looks quite arid to me except for the area around the park and possibly the north east.  WY still thrives on the cowboy mentality abd it reflects in the people.  you will be hard pressed to find a nicer group of folks.  I live in MT in Gallatin county which is more cosmopolitan and intellectual and the fastest growing (read jobs galore) in the state and #32 fastest in the country.  It's absolutely stunning beautiful mountain country and we have great weather.  the down side it that it costs about $600/mo for and apartment with no pets. houses start about $1100 and mobiles run about $600+ to rent.  cost of living is higher, but if you want a job you can get one in about 3 days.  2 weeks if you want a really good one.
  It can be a tough place to make it at first but it's been real good to me after I got it figured out.  freedom wise I dont think theres a better state in the country.  MT still doesnt have a sales tax and they generally hate government.  the cops arnt too bad overall, and you will find the people generally think libertarian even if they dont know it.  lots of great fishing and hunting and hiking trails too and 4 ski areas in the county. open carry law with concealed outside of city limits without permit.  CCW permit is available on a shall issue basis if you want it, but new law in the works to allow unliscenced carry anywhere in state has passed house and in senate now.  Property tax is high tho.
y'know, come to think of it..... Montana kinda sucks, maybe you should go to WY instead. 

montana jack

[Jack-O]

I should stress that if you do decide on gallatin county MT, you will need more than $3500 to get started.  the cost of living is high and expect $2000 to get into a place to live plus living expenses for a couple of weeks minimum.  I couldnt speak to WY, the initial costs may be lower.
my $.02

[bobcat]

Derringer,
While Ky has some absolutely beautiful country and half way decent carry laws.  Permit req'd for CC.  OC ok.  You should always check the laws, packing.org for starts.  There are jobs there, but mostly Japanese transplant automotive.

MOVE WEST OF THE MISSISSIPPI.  MOVE WEST OF THE MISSISSIPPI.  MOVE WEST OF THE MISSISSIPPI.

The only states I found that were remotely compatible were Idaho, Montana, Wyoming.  Each has it's virtues.  I'm leaning Wyoming right now since the energy sector is BOOMING.  That's why housing is a bit scarce, particularly around Gillette.  Hint: If you have construction sector skills, there is likely work there.

If you are adept at living small for a while, $3500 may get you by. 

Try these sites on for size.  Copy, paste, correct into your browser.
casperstartribune  ttp://232.careersite.com/candidate/processcandquicksearch
Wyoming CAT   ww.wyomingcat.com/EmploymentOpportunity.nsf/(Web+view)?OpenView

Note that the Wyoming CAT site has listings that are CONTINUAL.  Kinda suspect if you have a matching skillset, you'll have a job??

From a friend in Montana: He says there are always jobs in Billings, based on the newspaper there.

Best of fortune to you.  If you pull off the move, please let us know how things work out. 

[Jack-O]

skip billings it sucks. go west young man

[bobcat]

Jack, I am curious why 'Billings Sucks'.  While I am most UNinterested in living in a city of that size, Billings could be my work or supply 'hub' whilst living well outside of town.  I have been there a couple of times and it seemed ok at first cut.  Please elaborate.  Thanks.

[Derringer]

I don't know about Gallatin County, but we have been to Butte. I really like the town and it SEEMED to me like it was a cheap place compared with Missoula. It's a choice  between Butte Montana and Laramie Wyoming. I like Montana better for the scenery, but there seems to ba a lot of good jobs in Laramie (never been there). In Vermont there is NOTHING! I am a master service plumber and I was working at daily work/daily pay until I got a real "good" job as a messenger driver at $1 over minimum wage. We are leaving Wednesday. 1st stop Wyoming, but not sure if we are going to keep going to Montana. We are both conservative in a Libertarian way (center slightly right), but we like smaller government, few police/harassment and personal freedom. The only trouble I have had in 45 years was a speeding ticket many years back, but it's such a police stae here I can't stand it. I have heard good things about Montana and Wyoming but it's a hard decision. I know I need to live in a state with no vehicle inspection. My Ford pick-em-up is in 100% condition on the outside, but the driver door is bolted shut! It took an act of bribary to get a Vermont inspection sticker! I like montana's "lifetime" registration! Any thoughts on Butte VS Laramie? The reason I am saking is b/c I don't have enough $$$ to explore. I have to pick the most logical location that offers, freedom, jobs, fair cost of living, and ample housing (won't be moving to Gilette). I have tried "city compare" but that tells me nothing. Another thing my wife and I both CCW and have PA Licenses that are good in MT & WY, but we are afraid to OC here even in VT though it's legal. Thanks for any input you guys can offer ont he Butte VS Laramie or any other cities!

[bobcat]

What little research I've done on Butte, tells me it may not be the best spot to land. 

What follows is my opinion as gathered from personal on site observations, web searches and discussions with l friends.  Butte is a 'recovering' mining town.  The biggest or one of the biggest superfund sites in the nation is north of Butte.  Tailings ponds are numerous, tailings can even be seen from the interstate.  The large mine that is the site of the superfund has recently closed.    As the local economy is challenged, I would think getting a skilled job or any job would be difficult.  With your short funds, success would be less likely, than some of the other spots previously mentioned.  Too bad you have not had more time to get ready.

If any locals know more (or if I have erred), as I am SURE you do, please speak up.  My comments are simple observations and not meant to reflect negatively on anyone in Butte.  The surrounding area is Beautiful!

As far as Laramie, my research is minimal at this point.  Best get some local info.  I still think your best bet would be to start looking at Casper and Gillette papers on line to get a feel for jobs.  They are having to build houses for the influx of Coal industry employees.  All those houses have to have plumbing!!  If it were me, I would also search web sites for local plumbing outfits and start calling them.  Be ready to fax your resume.  You never know what you might find.  A job, friends, home!?!

Hope this helps.

[Derringer]

Thanks Bobcat.. I really appreciate the input. I hear what you are saying about Gillette. The reason I am pulling out of Vermont is we have been living in a motel for a year, and the wife has had it with that. Casper may be an option since there are probably more rental options there. I have read on the oil co sites that Gilette has a housing shortage to the point that some workers are livi'n in campers on co property. Were probably gonna to stop in Laramie first to see what is there. I did notice that Butte was kinda depressed when we visited in '04, but I was lookin on realtor.com and the prices have really gone up! I wonder if the Kalifornia yuppies have "discovered" it! Didn't know about the superfund site. Do ya know if it's chemicals that are poisoning the air/water, or just the mess from strip mining?

Dave

[Derringer]

Talked to Janet and she is leaning toward WY and likes what we have read about Laramie. Anyone know anything about the town?

[bobcat]

Yeah, I 'heard' the same thing about Gillette.  I also looked at housing prices there and they have shot up dramatically.  Not sure if a move to Gillette would make sense for us either, unless I had some sweet job lined up.

Butte, I understand that the pollution is decades old, and is primarily processing chems that have found their way into the tailings ponds.  Probably the reason for $$ increase on property is something like you suspect. 

You may want to PM DTOM or Biathalon as they are in the Laramie area and could give you ideas on resources for looking for work and available rental.  Be sure to check out the links that MamaLiberty posted as they are as good as any.

BC

[Jack-O]

Billings.  The job market is kinda flattening out a bit.  it also has a big city mentality and a cowboy mentality which doesn't fit my personality.  if thats your thing then try it out.  If you are seriously considering butte then maybe its time to rethink billings.  butte is almost the last place I'd go in montana.  the water is literally un drinkable from the ground.  it has a lot of history, but it has a lot of problems too.  poverty is rampant in the area because the jobs have mostly gone to gallatin county and missoula.
  If you want to come to montana, then just follow the work.  dont look at housing prices because hwere they are low there are no jobs, where they are high there are jobs.  very little middle ground.  maybe you'd be better off in WY as my impression is there might be more middle ground.

jack

[Danl]

Derringer,

As an experienced plumber I can not in my wildest dreams imagine you not being able to find work quickly in Casper or Gillette or Sheridan or Buffalo.....  They are building everywhere and are needing workers.  If you are experienced at HVAC you can certainly double your ability be gainfully employed......

Regards, Danl