Why the Focus on Survivalism?

[Blaineus]

These guys will probably manage to turn the tide enough for Wyoming to retain some of the freedoms from the old west days if the Mormon hoards don't overrun their state and force everyone to drink 3% beer while they breed like bunnies to try and achieve a majority vote that way. 

On the other hand, NH could be overrun by jews looking to build a new retirement subdivision. Three years later it'll be the People's Republic of New Hampshire, and have more delis and coffee shops than any place on earth, except maybe Ann Arbor. 

Did using religious and ethnic groups as examples make your points better?

I'd like to think not.  Perhaps you could have said something like this...

On the other hand, NH could be overrun by statists looking to build a new retirement subdivision. Three years...

Blame lack of freedom on Jews, Blacks, Mormons, Catholics, Protestants, Russians, Italians, Irish, Mexicans or whomever you want.  All that tells me is that you couldn't care less about real freedom.

[Michigan Escapee]

Old Jews from the east coast ? If they're pulling SS and Retirement funds they probably aren't seriously libertatian leaning, but who can say. They're not bad people, but they do tend to drive city council people insane with minor BS issues. Old irish people from Boston seem more concerned with yelling at kids to get off the lawn.  As for the other ones you listed, no big deal, unless you make them drink that 3% mormon beer, that's primer for a riot.

Now if you want an ugly scene, get a bunch of  korean woman going up to a mall on saturday and finding out that it's closed. 

Ok, that should round off any un-pc coments. 

[MamaLiberty]

Can we call a truce right here, gentlemen?

I'm pretty sure that Michigan Escapee has been deliberately baiting the rest of us for some time. It is very possible this is his version of humor - or entertainment.

Let's just not get drawn into arguments. If he really feels this way, we're not going to talk him out of it. If we don't like what he says, it's probably more productive in the long run just to ignore his posts.

[Danl]

Let's just not get drawn into arguments.

I agree.

Regards, Danl

[celeste]

OK, so from my perspective, and this is based on fact. 

If you are NOT self-sufficient, you are probably going to be more susceptible to taking a government handout.  Once you take that handout, you are under the thumb.

My father lives around a bunch of small farms, and they have taken the government subsidy for the sprinkler systems.  Guess what, now the government can basically do what they wish with their lands.  The exact example I am speaking of is the killing of a certain type of tree.  All the farmers who had taken the sprinkler subsidy were subject to the state coming in and killing ALL the certain type of trees on their land.  They had no choice.  My father, who is self-sufficient and had not taken the subsidy was allowed to keep his trees.  Now extrapolate this....  Get the point. 

[godscarp]

citizen-142002,
     I'm originally from Plymouth, Mass, and went to St. A's in Manchester, for 2 yrs on a hockey scholarship before transfering to BC.....I left Boston in '80 and toured the country.  I fell in love with the Rockies....and the people out here.  What you are not seeing about WY is the difference in simply the basic mind set of the folks out here.  Use NH as an example.  Once you get north of the ever expanding Mass. commuter population, life and the people slow down.  I read a National Geographic article that stated, "WY, is a small town with a really long main street"  Tough, independent and self-relience are cornerstones of the folks that live here.  Yet, they'll give you the shirt off their backs.  When I first came out here, I couldn't get use to walking down the street with my head up, smiling at strangers and nodding and saying, "Howdy".......do that in Manchester or Boston and people will either try and give you some spare change or cross the street......Getting all fired up by reading BTP's MOLON LABE and being ready to take on  the PTB, mellows with the reality of being here. Native western folks, take a wait and see attitude about newcomers.  They don't want "change" for change's sake.  Prove yourself over a period of years and you'll be accepted.  Jump into local politics here, like a Nashua liberal after a new social program and you'll be shut out.  Living in the rural west and watching the national news, there is an enormous disconnect.  From out here, it is almost impossible to comprehend life on either coast.  The seeds for the national disaster looming ahead are not planted out here.  BUT, common sense rules here.  If you're not prepared to end up with your truck stuck in a ditch and face miles of alone, you're screwed.
If you sit back and watch the news and don't see what's coming, you're screwed. So if you want real small town independence, join us...but you'll have to work really hard on getting the "Rs" back in your speech!!!!   ~W~lol .....carp

[Blaineus]

Can we call a truce right here, gentlemen?

I'm pretty sure that Michigan Escapee has been deliberately baiting the rest of us for some time. It is very possible this is his version of humor - or entertainment.

Let's just not get drawn into arguments. If he really feels this way, we're not going to talk him out of it. If we don't like what he says, it's probably more productive in the long run just to ignore his posts.

No fighting Mama, I was simply asking if there was a better way to express his opinions that didn't label peoples politics based on skin tone, religious or ethnic background, or sexual preference.  I also provided a constructive alternative.

Trust me, I'm far from PC, and rarely try to be.  I'd just rather see the true problem, statists, be labeled as such.  It's more helpful to the cause.

[MamaLiberty]

Trust me, I'm far from PC, and rarely try to be.  I'd just rather see the true problem, statists, be labeled as such.  It's more helpful to the cause.

Of course! But his original post and response indicate that he's not interested in that. I'm not saying he's deliberately trying to start an argument, but it certainly seems possible. Why let him push our buttons?

[Blaineus]

No button was pushed at all.  Just patiently trying to help out!  I'm hoping Michigan Escapee didn't realize that there was a better way and I've in some way made him stop and think.  I try to see the good in all people, give them the benefit of the doubt.

And now, as this is the last thing I'm saying on the matter, back to the discussion on survivalism,  -style.

I do apologize to any and all for the thread-jack I've committed.

[Boston]

from citizen_142002:

However, it seems to me that force of arms is the last resort when it comes to defending liberty. I would suggest focusing more on political activism and non violent civil disobedience.

I've no disagreement with that, but what I don't think you fully
realize is how quickly the window is shutting on the opportunity
to train sufficiently with firearms -- especially battle rifles/carbines.
Financially, it's already become prohibitive for too many newbies.
Legally, I sense disaster on the horizon from either McCain or Obama.
I.e., I think too many of you back East are way behind the gun curve.

From what I've read on the FSP Forum, you all aren't much into long guns
out there, or serious training.  Your first Porcfest (or two) didn't even have
any shooting events, IIRC.  By the time you need your last resort of arms,
it may be too late to buy into that "insurance policy."

Your local state-level political efforts are to be commended, but a resolute
and armed citizenry is what will sustain your gains over the long run -- simply
by being armed.  It's the only thing that ever has.  This is all the more relevant
when one considers the increasing federalization of the law and police forces.
Meaning, a successfull NH marijuana decrim bill will likely be overturned by the
federal courts (as happened in CA).  Then, what will you all do?

The West is feisty and rural, and I think folks out here will have much less
long-run tolerance for abuses of their rights.

All that said, FSWers have involved themselves in local political affairs more
than you probably suspect.  Your four NH examples are good ones which we
here can certainly learn from.

Thanks for posting here, and good luck in NH!

Boston

[Michigan Escapee]

As to the subject of "baiting" I was trying to make a point too rapidly, so my PC filter wasn't kicked in. It takes paragraphs of "lawyer talk" to dodge around offending someone, and by the time you make your point people are bored into a coma. Refer to Monty Python's "The life of Brian" if you need further elucidation. 

[Paul Bonneau]

My question is how ONLY preparing for an economic collapse or martial law is going to help prevent those things. I mean how does it make the world a more free place?

You can't make the world a more free place. It doesn't want to be free, nor do the people in it.

Your questions here make me think you must be young. I too thought the world needed saving when I was young. The world was not interested in what I thought.

Preparing for economic collapse certainly is not intended to help prevent economic collapse. It is intended to feed our family when the inevitable economic collapse occurs.

If you wish to spend time "working within the system" or doing other things you think will help, go ahead. I've spent plenty of time on the Wyoming Liberty Index for example. Not much has come of it, but you never know... Many of us are tired and disappointed though. Our efforts to save the world haven't worked. Our focus has turned very local. We realize there is little profit in standing in front of a slow-motion train wreck.

I'm curious why you are here asking questions like this. How will it profit you? It seems you are more at home in the NH way of doing things, so why not just concentrate on that?

A few here have wondered as you do, but they usually give up on the rest of us and go away and do their own thing.

[Fran]

Hey guys,

My name's Nick and I'm actually a New Hampshire native. I do a lot of activism here with Free Staters.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but I've noticed that Free State Wyoming seems to have a strong focus on survivalism or the importance of an armed citizenry/militia. Don't get me wrong, I think these things are important. I own firearms and I believe that the second amendment was intended first and foremost to protect weapons like the AK-47 and AR-15. A militia needs military arms.

However, it seems to me that force of arms is the last resort when it comes to defending liberty. I would suggest focusing more on political activism and non violent civil disobedience. I mean there's plenty of time in a week to do that and go to the range once or twice. Who knows, there may even be time to set up that HAM radio transceiver.

Not trying to pick a fight. I think it's good to be prepared, but just as important to try to avoid a future where we have to take up arms.

Nick, what's with the Orwellian handle - "citizen 142002"? Let me clarify something for you. The 2nd amendment was NOT intended to protect military arms! It was intended to protect the PEOPLE. It guarantees us all the the right to defend ourselves and to remove an oppressive government! Guns do not need protection. First and foremost it was enacted to protect the RIGHT to bear arms so that in the event of a tyrannical government, the people would have the means to remove that government and start a NEW government if necessary.
I elected to opt out of the east coast states because it seemed absurd to me that those states could ever regain their freedom. The mere fact that you question our focus on survivalism assures me that I made the right decision.
While you are focused on peaceful activism and are being sent automated responses from your congressman, our government has engaged in THREE unprovoked wars - simultaneously! Every financial expert and economist agrees that we are on the verge of a total monetary collapse. We have mass murderers running the white house. When the world enters into a total barter system, how will your activism help to protect your family?
While the FSPers were puffing on their hand carved pipes, sipping lattes, and pontificating on how to better get the attention of their "elected" representative, there was a near total media blackout on Ron Paul, the supreme court endorsed crushing a child's testicles in front of parents to elicit "confessions", and most Americans embraced the idea of various torture methods for those who the government "suspects might have ties to terrorism". Of course that includes is whoever they say is a terrorist.
NH is welcome to fiddle while Rome burns, but folks in WYO seem to be cut from a different cloth. We don't DO group think here. We all just do our own thing - independently. There is no "head of the snake" here. Some of us garden, shoot, hunt, store food, run for office, or have home businesses. On the whole though, it appears that most of us constantly work towards less dependence on the failing system. Like many people, you seem to correlate preparedness with fear. You shouldn't. Being prepared means that you don't have to be afraid. Working towards self-sufficiency, preparedness, and self-defense means that no matter what happens with the economy, politics, or the climate, our lives will still be good. If you and the other FSPers wish to spend your time writing, wishing, praying, and begging for change - knock yourselves out. Keep pretending that the elections and the media aren't controlled by the same people - we won't try to stop you. But PLEASE, for the love of Mike, don't come to our forum and try to protect us from ourselves. We wish you the best in NH... enjoy your convenient malls, trains, and airports. We like WYO, and we plan to survive. Keep in mind that the whole idea of the FSP and WFS was long term survival and the preservation of freedom. If you believe that the best way to obtain that is activism, then God bless you. Just remember Baskin Robbins has 32 flavors because everyone has different tastes. Personally, I have lost my taste for politics and have accepted the idea that our time is now better spent on self preservation. "Don't tase me bro'"

[socalserf]

Fran-
That was flat out BEAUTIFUL!

[alexspartan]

I agree with Fran quite a bit, Citizen 142002.  The State won't voluntarily give up it's powers, and hundreds, if not thousands, have been swallowed up and changed by the system while trying to change it from within. Remember the Nietzsche quote - "He who fights against monsters should see to it that he does not become a monster in the process. And when you stare persistently into an abyss, the abyss also stares into you."

The State will only lose it's power when the people choose to ignore it.  It's the legitimacy issue. 

And, like Boston said, the focus on "survivalism", or rifle skills, is an insurance policy in the case of the State not taking kindly to being ignored.