Author Topic: Why the Focus on Survivalism?  (Read 10894 times)

Offline citizen_142002

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Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« on: August 12, 2008, 04:32:19 PM »
Hey guys,

My name's Nick and I'm actually a New Hampshire native. I do a lot of activism here with Free Staters.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but I've noticed that Free State Wyoming seems to have a strong focus on survivalism or the importance of an armed citizenry/militia. Don't get me wrong, I think these things are important. I own firearms and I believe that the second amendment was intended first and foremost to protect weapons like the AK-47 and AR-15. A militia needs military arms.

However, it seems to me that force of arms is the last resort when it comes to defending liberty. I would suggest focusing more on political activism and non violent civil disobedience. I mean there's plenty of time in a week to do that and go to the range once or twice. Who knows, there may even be time to set up that HAM radio transceiver.

Not trying to pick a fight. I think it's good to be prepared, but just as important to try to avoid a future where we have to take up arms.

Offline MamaLiberty

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2008, 04:46:29 PM »
We've discussed this at length, so if you want to see it just do a search.

Different people have different takes on all that. Some of us have been doing the activism and political thing for decades - or a lifetime. Some of us simply feel that the time for that has run out.

I hope you are right, but believe that you are not. We shall see.
It's not that people are dumber, it's that stupidity used to be more painful.

Offline Michigan Escapee

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2008, 07:23:29 PM »
For these guys going to Wyoming, it's a practical thing even if they don't know it yet. Even in fairly tame Iowa, if things get out of hand, you really don't have any backup. In super super rural america, your closest backup search and rescue or relief mission might be based in Salt Lake City or Denver. Maybe a local military base in South Dakota or Cheyane might help out if they aren't coping with their own problems.

It sounds crazy, but until you've seen things go down in "God's County" in a bad way, you can't really understand the full importance of knowing how to cover your own butt.

As for the guns, a relatively "harmless and cute" raccoon can hurt you pretty bad if it's rabid. Now a black bear is roughly the same density as a coon, and an order of magnitude more trouble. They can shred your
minivan and roll a single wide trailer if motivated enough. As for human flesh, forget it, that cute 180 pound black bear will totally mangle your 280 pound 6'3" lineman type even if he has a machete and berzerker strength.

And to add to the fun, remote areas get the occasional fugitives who enjoy meth, raping, killing, and stealing. The local Po Po try not to advertise this "fun and adventure" , but a shotgun loaded with triple ott might be advised if you have an unannounced visitor at some odd hour of the night who decides to circle around the house twice before knocking on the door.  ;D

Offline kylben

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2008, 09:12:29 PM »
I've noticed that Free State Wyoming seems to have a strong focus on survivalism or the importance of an armed citizenry/militia.  ... However, it seems to me that force of arms is the last resort when it comes to defending liberty.

The best way to not have to use force is to be prepared to use it.  Same kind of idea goes for what you call "survivalism', and I call self-reliance.  Once you know you can handle the worst case, everything that isn't the worst case is an improvement. You have more room to act if your back is not against the wall. Prepare for the worst, hope - and work - for the best, or at least for better than the worst.

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Offline Pumpkihn

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2008, 09:55:59 PM »
You guys are awesome.

just sayin...

Offline bobcat

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2008, 10:15:54 PM »
Welcome aboard, citizen142002.

Those of us that have lived in the country most or all of our lives know the importance of having back up for various scenarios.  From food to transportation, to emergency medical and of course self defense.  That's NOT survivalism in the current political sense of the word, and especially as the media would depict, but simple forethought and necessity.  As Kylben suggests, a self-reliant attitude.  When help is 30 minutes to hours away, you don't have a choice but to be PREPARED or you can suffer extreme inconvenience or die.  Thus, the origin of an independent spirit of many of those posting here.

Folks from the city or high population density areas may not have ever had the need or circumstance for making these kinds of preparations.  However, you learn quickly if you get caught unprepared dozens of miles and/or hours away from help in subzero (or over 100F) temps.   If you're not able to make a simple repair to your vehicle, business equipment or buildings, you can be in a world of hurt in short order. 

Look at the size of the state of Wyoming and the size of NH.  If you pick a location in each state relatively far away from a population center, you'll come up with greatly different numbers.

We do what we can to avoid problems rather than court them by not being prepared.  If you are at least modestly prepared, you greatly improve your odds at a problem being a mere inconvenience rather than a debilitating one or even a life threatening event.

Sure there are probably some hard core, super survivalist types that post here, but I'll wager that most poster's on the subject simply have an independent spirit, as I've roughly outlined above, and recognize the need to prepare accordingly.  It's just part of life in the boonies.

Hope that helps your understanding?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 10:27:22 PM by bobcat »
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Offline biathlon

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2008, 09:09:03 AM »
Citizen142002, all I can tell you is that if you look at the ever enlarging world population, the prevalence of new and ever more drug resistant diseases, food shortages, nearly extinct fisheries and all the other chaos emerging worldwide it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that it's only a matter of time before we have a catastrophe of unprecented scale. A mega flu pandemic, continent wide grid failure, you name it, it's only a matter of time. What on earth do you expect to accomplish with "activism"? Do you honestly expect FEMA to prevent a panic at Wall of China Mart?

Offline Beulahtrash

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2008, 09:20:32 AM »
Growing up here I started shooting, hunting, camping, and fishing from a young age. Being that it is so sparcely populated and neighbors kids of my age are miles away I spent lots of time outdoors. Being snowed in and having the occasional power outage, convinced my parents to get prepared with a generator and food stocks. As a hobby my old man took up game processing and that lead to meeting more of the local ranchers and started cutting up beef and hogs for them. I don't consider that "survivalism", it's just a product of the environment that we live in.
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Offline MANUMIT

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2008, 10:07:57 AM »
Survivalism?  Nah, it was just called America in freer, more independent times...prior to forced urbanization via rural economic destruction & the cross-hatching of the country with interstates "for defense"...when in fact it opened the hinterlands for easy invasion/destruction of the truly American way of life and made everything "a product of interstate commerce."

If Survivalism is acting and preparing independently and cooperatively with others around you, isn't that the best AND MOST effective activism there is?  The only heart and mind you need to and in fact can actually change is your own...then by acting accorrdingly, raising a family if you so choose, and freely associating with like-minded souls building outside relationships and spheres of personal influence, your activism will pay off in individually achieved freedom.

Any other "activism" is frankly pissin' in the wind...

MANUMIT
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Offline bobcat

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2008, 02:55:57 PM »
Well put, Manumit.

So Nick, what is your definition of survivalism?
Bobcat  

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Offline Danl

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2008, 08:01:47 PM »
Survivalism.......  Hmmmmmmmm

I prefer the term "Self-reliance."  Self-reliance defined -- Reliance on one's own capabilities, judgment, or resources; independence.

In order to be self-reliant one must be somewhat prepared for various versions of life circumstances.  Many in our fora prefer the self-reliant lifestyle.  I realize it is rare to find anyone who is completely self-suficient, however a group of self-reliant folks can make a community of free people who do not "agress" against their neighbors.

Regards, Danl ~W~
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Offline Michigan Escapee

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2008, 09:52:58 PM »
Maybe he's thinking more of the city dweller with the 4x4, military surplus gear, a year worth of MREs
stashed in the closet, and a heap of gizmos advertised in American Survival Guide or some other crazy doomsday nut magazine.

Kind of your Dale Gribble type. Sometimes you can get the weekend hiker type that goes over the edge a little, or the hunter with a few dozen too many guns just for blasting the odd squirrel or deer.

I think it comes down to people in general just liking gadgets. If you can burn $200 at big lots or harbor freight in one shot without being there for a specific item, you're not a survivalist, your a pack rat. ;)

If you have separate bomb and tornado shelters, then you are probably a survivalist, a nut, and have too
much time and money to waste.  :P

In my case, I lived in a mud pit on the outskirts of nowhere for too long. So I totally need my lattes to stay sane, and some place to burn money on my downtime. Sure the place is a first strike target for north koreans, is earthquake prone, and surrounded by volcanoes. But being perfectly honest with myself, I know that even though I could get by living like a wildman on the unstylish side of the cascades, it would really really suck.  Sure it would be safe, hardly anyone lives there, and the leaking radioactive waste from the Hanford reservation keeps the yuppies from infesting. But I dunno.

A survivalist would live there anyway, because they enjoy pain, and probably being a crazed recluse.

Living a rural lifestyle, having all the toys, a bare minimum of neighbors, and some means of not being totally bored to death would be the best of all worlds. Assuming that pace of life works for you.
But if your kids run off to Boston for a career in investment banking when they grow up , and become a Washington DC lawyer, don't be surprised. The rural life appeals only to some people.

As for Wyoming, well it sure is out there. People live there, but if you need that mega mall or downtown big city shopping spree every other weekend, it could get ugly fast.  ;D Need that urge for a pizza, thai food, or italian filled in under 30 minutes ? Maybe not so easy out there, unless you can cook real fast.

Not too many people in ninja suits living in holes in the ground there I suspect, or stashing bunkers with enough ammo and weapons to fight the next supposedly impending civil war. Ohio, Michigan, and Kentucky are probably different stories though.  >:D

Offline bobcat

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2008, 08:45:14 AM »
So, Nick, were you just driving by leaving a provoking question to noodle on or were you really interested in a dialogue (Webster: dialogue;2. interchange and discussion of ideas , esp. when open and frank, as in seeking mutual understanding or harmony)?

Lots of folks have weighed in with a response...

Just wondering, as you initiated the conversation...  Maybe you've been too busy?...
Bobcat  

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"Citizenship is not a spectator sport"  -K Denninger

Offline citizen_142002

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2008, 01:09:16 PM »
I'm sure that some people felt I was trying to deride the idea of self reliance and preparedness, and I most certainly wasn't. Being familiar with emergency medicine, being trained in the use of arms, and having what you need to get by if the world does go to hell in a handbasket is all very sensible. I hope to see more people place a greater emphasis on these things, but my question wasn't intended to be about why you value self reliance.

My question is how ONLY preparing for an economic collapse or martial law is going to help prevent those things. I mean how does it make the world a more free place? I suppose you can make the argument that a collapse of the current system is inevitable, and that you'll be in a great position to start over once it implodes.

Personally I think there are other things that are effective in reaching out to the public and convincing them of benefits of a free society. I'll cite a few things we've been doing in NH that have been effective. I'm not trying to start an argument about who's free state project is better or anything like that, but rather make some suggestions that might help you make Wyoming a freer place.

1. Become the Media

Free Staters here have started a newspaper, the nationally syndicated Free Talk Live radio show moved to NH, and the are a number of cable access TV shows too. These have all definitely changed people's minds, and some of those people become activists themselves and reach out to even more new people.

2. Non-Violent Resistance

Civil disobedience can really illustrate to the general public that the government's only tool is force, and that a lot of the laws on the books are absurd when you get right down to it. We had an event where a free stater gave an unlicensed manacure for $1. of course it was announced to the authorities ahead of time, since the point is to get arrested. They were arrested and spent something like a day in jail. The public overwhelmingly sided against the law. Sadly the government didn't stop regulating the practice, but they cut the required number of hours that people must train to become a barber or cosmetolegist in half.

3. Political activism

If it wasn't for the efforts of free staters and NH natives working side by side, NH may never have opted out of the Real ID program. It was one of the first states to do so.  Activists here also helped kill a mandatory seatbelt law, eased restrictions on home schooling, and got a marijuana decrim bill through the NH house for the first time ever.

4. Integrate

When I say that free staters did this, it should be noted that a lot of natives have gotten on board. I'm a NH native and I know that many of the people at liberty friendly events in the state are too. The enemies of liberty will try to smear you as outsiders who want to take over, but if half of the pro-liberty activists are natives it makes that smear a lot harder, and it means more people working for liberty.

We've seen real tangible results in NH with just a few hundred movers and NH has a much higher population than WY. The distance issue might make networking harder for you guys, but if you're trying to focus on certain counties, I think it makes it easier.

Offline Michigan Escapee

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Re: Why the Focus on Survivalism?
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2008, 06:55:35 PM »

1. Become the Media

 These have all definitely changed people's minds, and some of those people become activists themselves and reach out to even more new people.

2. Non-Violent Resistance

Civil disobedience can really illustrate to the general public that the government's only tool is force, and that a lot of the laws on the books are absurd when you get right down to it.

3. Political activism

If it wasn't for the efforts of free staters and NH natives working side by side, NH may never have opted out of the Real ID program.

4. Integrate

When I say that free staters did this, it should be noted that a lot of natives have gotten on board. I'm a NH native and I know that many of the people at liberty friendly events in the state are too. The enemies of liberty will try to...... blah blah blah .. Blah blah...

Yeah, most of this comes down to a list of hobbies for bored rich kids who want to put their angsty video on youtube.

Living in the boonies at least has the advantage of some actual freedom simply because its too expensive
to export a full blown welfare and police state into a place where cows outnumber people 5 to 1. Actually, that would probably be Iowa or South Dakota.  ;D  But hopefully you can get the idea without getting stuck in hairsplitting mode.

These guys will probably manage to turn the tide enough for Wyoming to retain some of the freedoms from the old west days if the Mormon hoards don't overrun their state and force everyone to drink 3% beer while they breed like bunnies to try and achieve a majority vote that way.  :P

On the other hand, NH could be overrun by jews looking to build a new retirement subdivision. Three years later it'll be the People's Republic of New Hampshire, and have more delis and coffee shops than any place on earth, except maybe Ann Arbor.  :o

Either way, it's bound to be interesting to see how it turns out. At least in Wyoming they won't have marxist rich kids driving their parents Miatas and Priuses across state lines to counter-demonstrate. But their welcome to try, have to keep those hungry coyotes fed ya know.  >:D