Author Topic: Hello! Do I belong here?  (Read 30236 times)

Offline elk

  • Needs To Get Out More
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,479
  • We never had to take any of it seriously, did we?
    • Downrange TV
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2009, 04:57:01 PM »
Quote
That other stuff you said... like the man who ticketed you because you were in a fire lane deserving to be gunned down, and having no sympathy for his family, is hateful garbage.  Luckily, I know it isn't representative of the spirit of this group.  We disagree, and it would be useless to argue with you.

Its not tickets that piss me off, Shawn, those are just cops extracting undeserved wealth.  How do i produce the wealth?  By exchanging my finite lifespan for goods... by exchanging the lifespan of my body by working it and keeping it for things that produce wealth.  What does a cop do when he bullies me?  He robs me of my dignity.  If I do it to a cop, I either get, tazed, shot, or arrested and beaten within an inch of my life.  What does a cop do when he extracts my wealth via tickets, fines, or impounding my vehicle?  He steals time from my life.  He murders me early.  I find those who do that get what they deserve.  I'm no longer sympathetic to the "plight of the officers."  Let Yahweh and Jesus forgive and sympathize...  I don't have that luxury.  Spend a day or a week working for free to feed a cop's family after getting a bureaucratic ticket for a malum prohibitum, and see how much sympathy you feel for them.

State cop cars out here state "Sic Semper Tyrannis."  Really?  Funny hypocrisy given that the symbol surrounded by the saying is a tyrant slain by Lady Liberty."... though of course, I've lately understood it differently.  Its a sovereign freeman killed for not submitting.  Maybe its a matter of perspective.

I just hate bandits who steal from me, regardless of how many kids they have.  Its nothing personal with you mate.  But if you choose to be a shepherd, you'll naturally eat sheep meat, fleece sheep, and raise sheep.
Trading privacy for security is stupid enough; not getting any actual security in the bargain is even stupider.  ~ Bruce Schneier of Cryptogram fame (www.schneier.com)

Remember always that the only thing they required of us was our moral sanction. You lost when you accepted their moral code.

Offline elk

  • Needs To Get Out More
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,479
  • We never had to take any of it seriously, did we?
    • Downrange TV
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2009, 05:15:30 PM »
But that being said, that's food for thought for you.  As far as I'm concerned, until you steal from me directly via a ticket, waste of my time, or impounding, you and I will see eye to eye.  After that, lets say your humanity decreases in my eyes.

Until then, if a bad guy goes after you out of uniform, you'll have my willing help/support fire/ etc.  If you ticket me or rob me, or threaten me and humiliate me from the protection of your uniform, your wellbeing no longer matters to me, don't expect me to spare even a band aid or a cellphone call to the ambulance if you're hurt.  Call it a contractual remedy.  I won't go out of my way to hurt you unless you hurt me directly, but as with the first ticket I ever got... I had been a willing donor to several "help the deceased officers' families" funds.  First ticket I got, was half of what I donated to each of those funds...  I saved a lot of money since that year.

That's what I meant that I'd feel no sympathy for him or his family.  Why should I donate for their kids to get teddy bears, when that ticket money is teddy bears my potential kids wouldn't have?  So as far as I'm concerned, any cop who wastes my time or resources, is what any other robber is.  My enemy.

Don't act like my enemy, and we can be friends for sure.  I'd have more to say on the bureaucratic nightmare that the roadways have become, thanks to "effective policing."  But I wager cops don't care since it keeps them fed and employed, and everyone else doesn't care because it only affects them when transportation costs go up, or things aren't shipped to the store on time.  And then they blame greedy companies instead of effective policing of whatever malum prohibitum "crimes" they can nail you for.

But as you said you're a good guy, I'd say, so get the hell out of Cali before the floodgates open, and get yerself to Wyoming where they need a good sheriff who minds his own business.
Trading privacy for security is stupid enough; not getting any actual security in the bargain is even stupider.  ~ Bruce Schneier of Cryptogram fame (www.schneier.com)

Remember always that the only thing they required of us was our moral sanction. You lost when you accepted their moral code.

Offline jubal

  • FSW Member, In Wyoming
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,007
    • Marksmans Box
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2009, 05:25:09 PM »


   Well Shawn, very idealistic at the most. But in terms of realism, very far apart. Democracy is mob rule and you cannot have any progress with that, not politically I'm afraid. To much goodies to be handed out by politicians. Extremely hard to get around that politically. Corruption just oozes and schmooses in.
"
When planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary".
 Thomas Paine

Offline innov8r

  • Social Type
  • ****
  • Posts: 215
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2009, 07:26:32 PM »
fellas, i just don't think he gets it....

Offline elk

  • Needs To Get Out More
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,479
  • We never had to take any of it seriously, did we?
    • Downrange TV
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2009, 08:06:17 PM »
Nah, he might just be one of those judeo christian morality types, who truly believes that man requires shepherds.  Problem is, shepherds eat sheep just as wolves do.  That has ALWAYS been the problem with "benevolent shepherds of men."  Shepherds don't raise sheep as pets, to cherish and love, and not eat.  They raise them to eat them.  Part of what always scared me about judeochristian "salvation"... and the wonderful police states that have ensued from that morality wherever it "enlightened" men is precisely... SHEPHERDS EAT SHEEP!

So, I tend to believe that the whole idea of being shepherded by a benevolent shepherd still comes out at the wrong end.  Someone eating delicious lamb.  So... that being said, who wants to be the first to get his or her throat cut to be the provider of deeeeelicious lamb chop that the shepherd serves to his guests at his feast table?

Trading privacy for security is stupid enough; not getting any actual security in the bargain is even stupider.  ~ Bruce Schneier of Cryptogram fame (www.schneier.com)

Remember always that the only thing they required of us was our moral sanction. You lost when you accepted their moral code.

Offline kylben

  • Needs To Get Out More
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,296
    • Human Advancement
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2009, 08:50:51 PM »
I'll second Paul's "Don't worry about the anarchists", just in case I was one of the ones you were worried about.  I disagree with libertarian statists, but I don't have a personal beef with any that agree that individual liberty and responsibility are the most important things. Everybody has to do what they think is right, and words only go so far in convincing them that they are not. And hell, there's that itty bitty tiny chance that I could be the one who is wrong.  >:D

I'm not looking for a minimalist federal republic, but if the train needs to pass through that station to get where I want to go, fine, I'll buy a ticket. If we get there, I can go on to work peacefully on my own anarchy with minimal civil disobedience and the resources to defend myself against your state should it turn foul again. (My certainty that it would is why I am an anarchist, by the way.)  But getting there might just buy me enough time to demonstrate that no government can work, and that "no government" can work, then y'all are welcome to join me.

In the meantime, if you don't fit in here, you'll know it in time. Nobody will tell you, but you'll still get the message.  Others have.  But I think you will.  Oathkeepers are real popular in these parts, and true peacekeepers are welcome everywhere.  And if you're still not sure, ask yourself this:  Are you Andy Griffith or Barney Fife?

Carpe Libertas!
An Agorist Manifesto in 95 Theses: http://www.humanadvancement.net/blog/index.php?itemid=247/

Offline kylben

  • Needs To Get Out More
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,296
    • Human Advancement
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2009, 08:57:52 PM »
Ooops, that should read Andy Taylor or Barney Fife, but you get the idea.
Carpe Libertas!
An Agorist Manifesto in 95 Theses: http://www.humanadvancement.net/blog/index.php?itemid=247/

Offline KentuckyRifle

  • FSW Member, In Wyoming
  • ****
  • Posts: 204
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2009, 09:02:54 PM »
Quote
I'm not looking for a minimalist federal republic, but if the train needs to pass through that station to get where I want to go, fine, I'll buy a ticket. If we get there, I can go on to work peacefully on my own anarchy with minimal civil disobedience and the resources to defend myself against your state should it turn foul again. (My certainty that it would is why I am an anarchist, by the way.)  But getting there might just buy me enough time to demonstrate that no government can work, and that "no government" can work, then y'all are welcome to join me.

That is very well said. I think we as a group would accomplish more if we all held the same attitude.

Elk, you really need to head west. I think living in the east is really getting to you. I don't blame you, that is why I moved too. It isn't perfect, it isn't even great, but it is much better. Maybe with all your energy, combined with a few others, we can make it better yet.
_________________________________________________
Do you ever think that some people would be less happy if we did have more freedom, because it would give them less to gripe and moan about?

Offline biathlon

  • FSW Founding Member, In Wyoming
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,555
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2009, 09:24:12 AM »
Tornos, you're welcome here as far as I'm concerned. I have more than a few friends here in Laramie who are 5 county sheriffs deputies, UW Police, Laramie city Police and even a Wy highway patrolman. 3 of them are also on the local Ski Patrol with me. Speaking only for myself, I believe in self reliance. Like Mama and most others here, I carry firearms for several reasons. My 5 year old sons safety in town and up in the mountains is MY responsibility. I believe in the 10 Commandments and the first 10 Ammendments. I also believe the fedgovcoinc is completely out of control and acting WAAAAYY beyond its Constitutional duty. You'll probably be referred to another favorite website of this groups that says "We have to keep bailing". Sorry,,,     the ship already sank, we are now in the lifeboats and Wyoming is the most seaworthy. Do you ski?

Offline Boston

  • FSW Founder
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,212
  • FSW Rifleman
    • Javelin Press
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2009, 09:31:01 AM »
from KR:
Quote
Elk, you really need to head west. I think living in the east is really getting to you. I don't blame you, that is why I moved too. It isn't perfect, it isn't even great, but it is much better. Maybe with all your energy, combined with a few others, we can make it better yet.
Good point!

Boston

Offline elk

  • Needs To Get Out More
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,479
  • We never had to take any of it seriously, did we?
    • Downrange TV
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2009, 09:55:28 AM »
Quote
Do you ski?

I do.  Not the best at it, but I've done enough tumbling to know that I won't have to use a tree like that Kennedy fellow.   >:D >:D >:D

Quote
from KR:
Quote
Elk, you really need to head west. I think living in the east is really getting to you. I don't blame you, that is why I moved too. It isn't perfect, it isn't even great, but it is much better. Maybe with all your energy, combined with a few others, we can make it better yet.
Good point!

Boston

I'm taking steps, pardner, taking steps... (more like jogging towards it as we speak.)  Short of being stopped by government thugs... I should be out there within a year.  Or less.  Depending on the economical climate.
Trading privacy for security is stupid enough; not getting any actual security in the bargain is even stupider.  ~ Bruce Schneier of Cryptogram fame (www.schneier.com)

Remember always that the only thing they required of us was our moral sanction. You lost when you accepted their moral code.

Offline Tornos

  • Social Type
  • ****
  • Posts: 100
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2009, 10:30:04 AM »
Tornos, you're welcome here as far as I'm concerned. I have more than a few friends here in Laramie who are 5 county sheriffs deputies, UW Police, Laramie city Police and even a Wy highway patrolman. 3 of them are also on the local Ski Patrol with me. Speaking only for myself, I believe in self reliance. Like Mama and most others here, I carry firearms for several reasons. My 5 year old sons safety in town and up in the mountains is MY responsibility. I believe in the 10 Commandments and the first 10 Ammendments. I also believe the fedgovcoinc is completely out of control and acting WAAAAYY beyond its Constitutional duty. You'll probably be referred to another favorite website of this groups that says "We have to keep bailing". Sorry,,,     the ship already sank, we are now in the lifeboats and Wyoming is the most seaworthy. Do you ski?
I agree totally.  I still feel there is much we can do to salvage our liberties on a local level though.  And... I've only been skiing a couple of times, so would be a rank beginner.  Loved it though, and would love to take my girls out on the slopes someday!  Around here everyone drives quads and atvs in the desert... and I just can't get into that.  Too hot and dusty for me, too deadly for my girls.

Oh, and to the others.  Again... thank you for the welcomes!  My question is answered, and I do belong here, at least until I find out differently.  Keep discussing as you will, though.   ;)

Offline Danl

  • FSW Founding Member, Wyoming Bound
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,058
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2009, 10:59:27 PM »
I do belong here

I thought so  ;D

Regards, Danl   ~W~
Alea iacta est, Molon Labe!
"I can see the faces of those who died when I refused to fight for freedom!"? Mefford
"Danl, Not an invader and liberator of Wyoming, but rather a refugee from the tyranny of Illinois."
Blog: Shall Not Be Infringed

Offline Brandy

  • FSW Founding Member, In Wyoming
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
  • Submissive in totality to one only.
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2009, 08:49:39 AM »
Give your wife time.  Let her know that for a some of the men on the forum there is a wife who was initially reluctant--Me for one.  We have now lived here 3+ years and love it.  We are in a small town just outside a little bigger town just outside of a bigger town and I think I have the best of all worlds.  We home school and there is a large community of homeschoolers.  Went back to our old home about two weeks ago and it just reinforced that we had made the right decision getting out when we did.  If we had drug our feet we wouldn't have been able leave as easy as we did--by the way it wasn't real easy but the rewards were worth the grief and making two mortgage payments for about a year.

Point being--I am a mother of 5 daughters and two of them are right in the age range of yours and should your wife want a wife's perspective send her my way. 

As for being a law enforcement officer--I tend to shy away from ya'all.  I seem to have a stamp across my forehead that screams she needs a ticket. ::) ??? ;D

Brandy ~W~
Veritas numquam perit - Truth never perishes!

Offline Tornos

  • Social Type
  • ****
  • Posts: 100
Re: Hello! Do I belong here?
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2009, 11:43:16 AM »
Hi Brandy!

The first thing Alina said when I mentioned Wyoming was, "we're not moving to Wyoming." ;D  That was days ago though (ancient history), and we've agreed that we'll take a family vacation to Wyoming next summer.  I think the idea will grow on all of us once we get there and look around.  She loves outdoorsy activities... camping, hiking... I do too, and would love to shoot more often (and learn to hunt/fish).

When we do make the transition, it wont be easy.  Two mortgages until we can move/sell... yeah.  Finding new jobs, or learning to survive on a single income... yeah.  It's going to take planning and a lot of budget trimming.

Maybe she'll have a chance to talk to you next summer when we make the trip.  Oh... and I write traffic tickets like... once a month, maybe.  So don't worry about me, I'll be safely out of my jurisdiction anyhow.  I much prefer being able to say "Ok, ma'am, just get that headlight fixed when you have a chance, ok?  Drive safe."

-Shawn