Author Topic: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members  (Read 85623 times)

Offline maxxoccupancy

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2009, 04:00:50 PM »
I guess what I understand some to be saying is this:

If thousands of potential movers won't move if they believe that Wyoming is a "dead movement,"

then that means:

they wouldn't do much if they got to Wyoming, at all

OR

their commitment to liberty is less than overwhelming  AND they will not spread the word or do recruiting themselves.
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Offline kylben

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2009, 04:29:12 PM »
I accept that, and if I came across as being harsh I apologize.

Nah, my skin ain't that thin. Better to hash it out than to let it fester, and it boils down to that I think we're on the same page, just looking at it from different angles. I have no problem with advertising what's going on here.

As to the forum board, I see it as a lot more than just arguing.  Maybe you're not seeing it from my perspective as a relative outsider, but the practical benefit of this board to me is enormous.  I don't comment on a lot of the praxis posts, but I read them.  I can feel that rural western culture sinking into my bones, and I know what kind of adjustments I'm going to face in moving, thanks to what I've read here. It's allowed me to start preparing even now, while I m still in financial exile, for when I finally am free to move.  I couldn't do that without all you guys. And don't underestimate the value of just being able to talk to people who are there on the ground, get to know them, argue with them, even bitch and moan once in a while.  It's the next best thing to being there for those of us who can't do it face to face except one week every other year or so.

@maxx: 
Quote
I know plenty of people who are just as committed to liberty who are as likely to move to Alaska, Montana, Idaho, rural Nevada--or even leave the country.

People who are committed to moving are a different story.  You mentioned earlier people who want to hop across the border to Vegas as a desperate escape from Kali, but people who are committed to moving to a place where they can have freedom rather than simply running away from a place where they don't are certainly people that should consider Wyoming, and who would be a boon to the movement.

So, how do we reach them, not the refugees, but the pro-active movers? 

But maxx, do you understand the differences between the two movements?  Maybe I don't have a complete picture of even the Wyoming movement, but there are clearly differences.  Your input here has been valuable, but the stuff that NH is doing is not always going to be able to be transferred whole to Wyoming.  A 420 rally in Casper would most likely be a terrible idea (don't know about Cheyenne, might work in Laramie). I know, I harp on that one, and I'm probably guilty of stereotyping NH to some extent, but to me it's a glaring example of something that is working great there that would not in WY.

You've seemed to be seeking a role here as an unofficial liaison between the two movements, and I for one appreciate it, even if we butt heads a little. But to do that, you have to understand both, and I get the feeling you don't really understand Wyoming yet.  If you could do that, you could possibly make a real difference and help Wyoming build up its numbers - in a Wyoming-compatible way.  And you could help us here in Wyoming understand NH better.  There's a lot of things that will not copy from one movement to the other, but many of those differences could also be highly complimentary. 

By the way, I almost forgot, but I own www.wyomingfreepress.com.  I can't commit any time to doing anything with it for now, other than some very occasional writing (and I bet I can talk Sally into doing some graphics, like what is up there now) but I'll cover the registration and basic hosting if anyone wants to put in the setup and management. It might be something we can use towards that advertising effort. 
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Offline KentuckyRifle

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2009, 05:23:12 PM »
I haven't really spoke up that much in this discussion, but I personally like the idea of a counter. It would help generate momentum and encourage and excite others to move. I personally didn't need it to move out here, but I think it could be a decent recruiting tool. If a person doesn't want their name listed, fine. But I like the idea for those that are willing, I would certainly be willing to let my name be put on a "roll". I understand the exposure and loss of privacy that this might mean for me, but it would be a worthwhile sacrifice if it helped rally other liberty minded people to the cause.

The fact is that we NEED more liberty minded people to help make a bigger difference. To stick our noses in the air and say that we don't want the help of someone who isn't self-motivated enough in our minds is pretentious and ridiculous.
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Offline Vince

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2009, 05:34:52 PM »
How about an anonymous counter ala Ebay?  You know, this auction viewed 300 times, etc.  Our FSW couter would reflect the number who have actually moved without listing names.

Rich, we could still have a medallion of some sort, I liked that idea when you mentioned it at the beginning of this thread.  Any who rate within the first 300 who DON'T want the publicity of a census could pass the honor on to the next available freedom minded immigrant.

Yes?
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Offline maxxoccupancy

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2009, 05:41:42 PM »
Hmmmm...  I guess I don't really see their view as pretentious... so much as concerned with privacy, in part.  For that--and those not wanting to be part of a "census," I suggested setting up "The 300" at pledgebank.com.  Some would put their JOHN HANCOCK there, some would add comments, some would sign up anonymously, while others would not sign for issues they've mentioned here.  It's a free movement, and things must be achieved voluntarily and without pressure.  The 300 could be attempted as a pilot project of sorts--something where some of the folks involved in Wyoming try to get their own snowball going.  Those not wanting to be part of that pledge, "I will become a liberty activist in Wyoming by December 31st, 20XX, but only if 299 others do the same," could just allow the effort to operate on its own, just as the First 1,000 and Next 1,000 have operated independently of the Free State Project group.

I really enjoy talking up Wyoming, and I don't mind taking flack on the New Hampshire fora for promoting the thing.  For wyomingfreepress.com, I would recommend getting future movers and potential movers involved.  There's a lot of potential for the "smallest" state in the nation to pull in thousands of new folks.  If the whole thing operates as a dozen independent projects (like New Hampshire), then some of those projects will grow to become big successes and pull in even more new liberty folks.  Superactivists and recruiters may help bring in farmers, ranchers, alternative energy folks, investors, and new business owners who help make your part of the state more livable and more interesting.  In my opinion, more is usually better.

For that Nevada bit (should go into a separate thread, but too late now) most of the "refugees" are either Lake Tahoe/Reno bound or are making their way out to rural Nevada, which offers more personal freedom than any other part of the country.  If the Nevada activists could just convert some of the refugees into activists and recruiters, that state would take off in a heartbeat.
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Offline kylben

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2009, 05:49:11 PM »
How about an anonymous counter ala Ebay?  You know, this auction viewed 300 times, etc.  Our FSW couter would reflect the number who have actually moved without listing names.

I counted 93 pledges on the SofI thread.  Of course, those are not all movers, and I'm not going to go cross-reference them with posts to try and divine a number of actual movers from it (not only too much work, but I think too intrusive as well), but at least it is a concrete number.

Carpe Libertas!
An Agorist Manifesto in 95 Theses: http://www.humanadvancement.net/blog/index.php?itemid=247/

Offline kylben

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2009, 06:00:00 PM »
I really enjoy talking up Wyoming, and I don't mind taking flack on the New Hampshire fora for promoting the thing.

You're taking flak for it? Really?  How odd.

I'm sorry, but that just reinforces my impression of them as having collectivist tendencies.  If they chase you out for being apostate, you can always move to Wyoming.
Carpe Libertas!
An Agorist Manifesto in 95 Theses: http://www.humanadvancement.net/blog/index.php?itemid=247/

Offline maxxoccupancy

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2009, 06:34:56 PM »
Wow!  Believe me, I had thought of that.  Of course, now that I have a house in Seabrook, it's a bit too tough to sell and head out that way.

Check out the 56 page "second state project" thread I started back in 2006--dragged on for three years because people kept bringing it up.  I wanted a second state endorsed by a vote of the membership (probably Wyoming), so that there would be support for an alternate state.  On this forum, it was a slam dunk, but for the FSP Board, it was viewed as a threat, and there were some really angry replies and PM's, even some angry personal comments at meet ups.

There's no question that this forum is just more civil, and it's the reason I set up jeffersonforum.net.  Many people want to do something, not just sit there and argue semantics.

If some folks here want to go off and start The 300 effort at pledgebank.com, then I will help in every way I can.  If folks here want to help make wyomingfreepress.com a successful media venture, then I'll help out myself.  If someone here will agree to serve as Moderator of the Wyoming Board at jeffersonforum.net, I'll put you in as soon as you sign up.  I'd like to help the liberty movement in any way that I can.
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Offline Paul Bonneau

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2009, 07:45:21 PM »
A couple more comments.

Just because I was against the concept of a counter, does not mean someone else can't run with it. Any and all efforts to get this movement going are appreciated. I don't think FSW per se will be supporting a counter or recognition of 300 movers or whatever, though... (could be wrong about that).

Personally, I have tapered off a bit on emphasizing movers, because I think a pretty high percentage of people already in Wyoming are basically pro-freedom. They also fit in better. They just need a focus for their efforts, some organization to get them going. Could be FSW, or Wyoming Liberty Group, or WSSA. Movers help, but it is not a failure if not so many move, because freedom is not dependent only on them.

BTW, I don't see how this can be considered a dead movement, and I'm amazed it is even an issue. I suppose that's just jealousy between groups, more than anything. Some idea of folks already in Wyoming can be found by looking under each member's name when they post, where it says "in Wyoming".
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Offline Rich

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2009, 08:02:26 PM »
A couple more comments.

BTW, I don't see how this can be considered a dead movement, and I'm amazed it is even an issue. I suppose that's just jealousy between groups, more than anything. Some idea of folks already in Wyoming can be found by looking under each member's name when they post, where it says "in Wyoming".

Paul log in as a guest you only see a few boards,  then sign up you see more boards yes but you can't access
the member lists to scroll down, many folks don't show up but intermitantly if at all so you really don't get a picture
of how many there really is, it does look like a dozen or so when limited until they sign the SOFI...

So I am going to put up generic post in the welcome section, then you look and see if I crossed any lines till we get something else going.

Rich
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Offline dr1best

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2009, 10:38:32 PM »
I begin with two thoughts on this matter, thoughts we all know, yet for many have lost their power.
1)We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men.
It still gives me chills to feel the power contained in these simple words. Governments are instituted among MEN to secure these rights, not debase them.

2)It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Has liberty become so cheap we will gladly trade the last of it for a hot tub, two car garage, 401k, and a starbucks.
It seems we are at an opportune time, a fork in the road of human events. If we dither now the opportunity will pass. The question is what must we do now, this time, to secure our liberty?
Many,many people have these same convictions, they(like I was) are unaware of this org.
How do we get them on board, because the success of this enterprise is UP TO THEM.
Succisa Virescit

Offline ZooT_aLLures

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2009, 12:00:01 AM »
Quote
How do we get them on board, because the success of this enterprise is UP TO THEM.

That would depend entirely upon what the measure of success is.............


Offline dr1best

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2009, 12:41:23 AM »
Well if there is no measure of success, there is no measure for failure. No purpose, no mission statement, no reason to be.
So I ask, what was the purpose, the mission statement on 7-4-1776. If the measure of success of this enterprise can't be so clearly stated, so like in concept, then there is no measure of success. Eighty seven people living in the hills with guns and generators isn't a measure of success.
For a yardstick, read the Declaration of Independence, see how we measure up.
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Offline Rich

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2009, 12:43:21 AM »
I Agree, That now is the time for all good men to come together...

Later, at this point may very well be too late...

Too many are far too concerned with pontificating on some utopian dream of their version of
the perfect society, yet we haven't so much as done a single iota on removing the current yoke.

And it's getting damned tight!

But OH NO! WE don't need no stinking help from others, Right...

Rich
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 12:55:11 AM by Rich »
"There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know."  "Sec Def Rumsfeldt"

Offline dr1best

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Re: The 300! The 1st 300 FSW Moving Members
« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2009, 01:09:24 AM »
Thanks Rich, now is the time for all good MEN to come to the aid of their country. Some times I want to scream WAKE UP AMERICA, but it would fall on deaf ears. At least some of us can see the truth. Thank God for that.
Succisa Virescit