Author Topic: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??  (Read 11660 times)

Offline Paul Bonneau

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2007, 09:56:12 PM »
Quote
Free Staters seem to be more interested in arguing the semantics of Libertarianism than in actually getting anything done.

Well, we shouldn't be too hard on them. We too have our debates over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.  :)  Part of the reason you see that, I think, is people just waiting for things to get straightened out so they can move. They aren't IN Wyoming (or NH) yet, so all they can do is spend time on forums.

Quote
The economy has really tanked here (at least the housing industry) and things are pretty tight.

If you're a builder, Wyoming is the place to be. There is a severe shortage of housing in some parts of Wyoming, due to the energy boom.

Quote
I don't mean to pry, but I've been "working" on my wife for some time now.

Ah, the usual problem.  :)  Somehow, the ladies have trouble visualizing living in Wyoming. It took me a couple of years of the soft sell to get my wife to buy in, and for her it is still only going to be about half-time. A couple of things that might help: If your wife likes horses (many do), Wyoming is horse crazy. And the people are nice and friendly here; they don't have that hard edge that many big-city folks have. And there is lots to do, especially if you're the outdoor type.

As to your original question, the difference between FSW and FSP, yes there are some differences. FSW is a little more informal, I guess you'd say. There was nothing like the silly pledge and "20,000 movers by a certain date" and having 4999 strangers deciding where you are going to move.  ::)  But FSP does have some good points; for example they seem to be more active politically (which is something that needs to be done, really - you can't ignore the legislature). The difference is more a matter of taste than anything. Some people like Western ways of doing things more than Eastern ways.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2007, 10:01:46 PM by Paul Bonneau »
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Offline Wyowoman

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2007, 06:21:14 AM »
Quote
Somehow, the ladies have trouble visualizing living in Wyoming.
 

I must be one of the weird wives then. As soon as my hubby said he wanted to move here I said "let's start packing!"   I was just too happy to get out of Raleigh  ;D

Hope you get to come out here this year Zallen! Budget like crazy and make it happen.
?Political correctness is really a subjective list put together by the few to rule the many?a list of things one must think, say, or do. It affronts the right of the individual to establish his or her own beliefs.? Mark Berley, Argos, Spring 1998

Offline zallen

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2007, 06:52:47 AM »
Did you all have jobs before moving out ?  I did a 5yr stretch in Jacksonville FL (actually I think I might have preffered prison in NH than "freedom" in JAX) with my wife. We finally came to our senses, sold the house and left for NH (home).  No jobs and no place to live.  It was definitely worth the reward but I'd rather not do it again.  My ideal would be self-employment since taking orders is not something I do well. ;D 

Well I think I see myself drifting way off the topic of this thread ;) so I'll start lurking elsewhere on the board.  Thanks to all who replied, I think I have my answer.
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Offline Wyowoman

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2007, 08:24:42 AM »
Hello Zallen,
I really should post this in the moving to WY thread but..dh, the kids and I came out here for a vacation in late 2005 and while here dh talked to a company about possible work.  Two months after we got home from our vacation they called, asked for a resume, did phone interviews and then we were out here a month later.  So our 2-3 year plan went down to 3 months  8)   So, we were fortunate that he had a job lined up and they paid for the moving truck expenses plus a little more. 

Look in the jobs board threads and you'll probably get more info on what's available and/or where to look to see what job opportunities are here.



?Political correctness is really a subjective list put together by the few to rule the many?a list of things one must think, say, or do. It affronts the right of the individual to establish his or her own beliefs.? Mark Berley, Argos, Spring 1998

Offline TreadNotUponMe

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2007, 12:17:49 AM »
Quote
Free Staters seem to be more interested in arguing the semantics of Libertarianism than in actually getting anything done.

 ??? FSPers have gotten 20 of their members elected to political office in NH.  I'm confused how you could say that.  Although, I must admit, there is something of an inquisition when it comes to libertarianism...it is something of a purist organization.



The difference is more a matter of taste than anything. Some people like Western ways of doing things more than Eastern ways.

As an Eastern newbie, I must ask, what "Western ways" do you speak of and how are they different than "Eastern ways?"

Offline zallen

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2007, 06:00:14 AM »




The difference is more a matter of taste than anything. Some people like Western ways of doing things more than Eastern ways.

As an Eastern newbie, I must ask, what "Western ways" do you speak of and how are they different than "Eastern ways?"
Quote

Well I can't speak for "Western Ways" but I'm a life long right coaster (although it's going increasingly left).  First off lets face facts - there are schmucks everywhere but here in NE where I live (currently ;D) it seems (to most of the natives) that most of the schmucks come from MA.  Sorry if anyone on the board is from there, but honestly, WTF?
I was quite upset when they voted Deval Patrick in as the new head moonbat because that just means people will be leaving in droves.  This usually wouldn't concern me but they all head into my state!  They might not like Deval but they are just as left of center as Kennedy and Kerry.  They bring all their "There ought to be a law!" bs here.
Soooo...... I think what he meant is that out west people are more of the live and let live type while the lefties on the right coast are tax and let's tax some more. >:(
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
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The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
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Offline biathlon

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2007, 06:45:44 AM »
    Zallen, glad ya found us. How is FSW any different from "The other Group"?? We have no central command or other sort of contrived effort at guiding our thoughts or actions, rather,,,,     this is an INSPIRED effort. I do not believe it mere circumstance that the Almighty chose to reveal a message of hope for a return to the Constitution and Bill of Rights to someone who also happened to be an accomplished author. We who are in this "FSW" are by our nature fiercly independant and self reliant. I and I alone am responsible for providing for and protecting my family, friends and loved ones. Here comes the 3 yr old, will type more later 

Offline bobcat

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2007, 08:24:02 AM »
While I currently live in the midwest, I have spent considerable time in AZ, as all of my family is there.  I have also spent many years traveling various parts of the West from the NW to the plains to TX to AZ and in between.  For the record, I have also spent a lot of business time in eastern MA/CT and parts of NY State. 

These are my observations followed with opinions: 
The folks in the East are generally very short with you, or so it appears to non-Easterners.  Some will only give a 'snide' look followed by short, no smile remarks.  During dinner/or a meal, they will often talk over you, through you and around you.  I was told this is 'normal'.  I thought it extremely RUDE.  It is very much a hurry up atmosphere.  There is no relaxing in the 'traditional' sense.  Mistakes are something to blame someone for, not figure out what is wrong and fix it.  Lots of anger.  Seems to be a lot of frustration.  I would say something about Boston, MA specifically, but...(biting tongue).  Most New Englanders love their beautiful states and would never leave, ever.  I can understand that.

West: Folks are wary of outsiders, more so outside cities, but friendly.  You will be quickly sized up as a 'threat' or not.  If not, heaps of hospitality will cover you.  If a threat/unfriendly/unrespectful, you will be minimally helped with hopes of you leaving ASAP.  (I have seen this happen a couple of times-well founded concerns).  In many places in the West, folks have walked right up (and I them) and started conversations like they've know me all their life.  In the East, this would be suspicious, at best.  Relaxing means relaxing, sometimes saying nothing.  Plain speaking is respected.  Game playing in conversation is decidedly NOT.

Big cities, like Phoenix are, IMO, no longer follow the 'rules of the West'.  Phoenix has been 'ruined', IMO, by the influx of Kalifornia refugees during the 80's/90's.  They brought their govco intrusionist philosophies and nasty driving habits with them.  Just the way it is.  In the 60's, it was not unusual to see someone on a horse (packing heat) on the outskirts of town, especially Scottsdale.  I have not seen that for at least ten years.

NE'ers place great importance on heritage- if you're not three honorable generations deep in NE, you ain't much.  If you're not educated at some high mucky muck Ivy League or something similar, you're a 'lower' class.  Education is frequently asked about in professional circles and is even on some business cards!

In the West, you will be given some benefit of the doubt up front.  Your heritage is not that important, maybe interesting conversation, but not that important unless you have a history of being a problem.  Honesty is a highly sought after commodity and well respected in the West.  If you are full of BS or lie, you WILL BE shunned.  If you do what you say, respect other folks property and are willing to put in a fair days work, all is fine.  Folks will be courteous, but liars and dishonest types are on their own.  Part of the live and let live (within some bounds) philosophy.

Eastern folks can be friendly if; you are an Easterner or have Eastern 'heritage' (my grandfather was from NY, but nullified by my great grandfather being from Oregon), they want something (no kidding) or they finally get to know you (takes gobs of time, if ever).  Accents are most telling.  And yes, I do still have some friends out there.

Property rights in the East don't mean that much.  Government is highly intrusive, especially in cities/towns.  Taxes are many and high.  Protecting yourself in the East means calling the cops.  Really.  I've been told such, more than once.

(Qualifier: BIG cities notwithstanding) Property rights in the West are highly valued.  Govco is less intrusive, as most folks reject or don't want the 'help'.  Taxes are generally fewer and less.  Protecting yourself and your neighbors is EXPECTED.  The cops can't be everywhere and with distances and low population densities, you will be taking care of yourself, AND your neighbors by default.  The cops are usually NOT called first, they are simply backup for serious stuff or handling caught criminals.  Self reliance is the standard.

Folks out West tend to be more independent and will fend for themselves more often that not.  Govco is seen as an intrusion and impediment to getting things done.  In the East it is, generally, the opposite, as govco approval is needed/wanted just to __________ .(fill in the blank with almost anything)

Open range (a few general rules) vs. tightly observed property and fence lines.  Castle doctrine generally applies in the West (and a few Midwest states).  In the East, no, if you shoot an intruder, you will be the one in jail.

These are just my observations over several decades.  By no means do I mean to insult any Easterners.  You Easterners know the habits and nutty pace of life there.  I'll admit, the countryside-(way out) is more relaxed, but nothing like out West or even in the Midwest.  The scenery in NE was beautiful, but the price in lost freedom and short fused folks was/is not worth it-for me.

Life in the West can be harsh and unforgiving if you decide to live outside the 'comforts' of a large city.  Respect for physical surroundings and people are an integral part of life. Yes, there are all kinds of personalities everywhere, that's part of what makes life so interesting?
 
Many simple things, like water, can be tough to get.  Fire protection may mean an evacuation plan instead of fighting a fire, particularly a wildfire.  Snowed in can mean many days or more without electricity and access to the outside world.  Travel on mountain roads without guardrails has a certain 'pucker factor' that is not for the faint of heart, add snow and yikes!, better to just stay home if you can.  Snow plowing may only happen after 4-6 inches of snow and then not everyday.  Roads off the main highways are usually gravel and in various states of maintenance.  IMHO, these kinds of living conditions cause folks to be more independent and resilient in the face of difficulties.  Common sense applies and is a respected attribute.

These are just my observations and opinions over the years.  This country boy found the attitudes in the East not conducive to a harmonious outcome.  Just my personal preference.  A lot of Eastern folks would never leave and think most of us not there to be 'hicks'.  Fine. :)  Live and let live, just keep your Socialist attitudes in the East. ~W~
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Offline MamaLiberty

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2007, 08:47:16 AM »
Just my 2 cents worth...

I've been reading about FSP since the beginning. I didn't join them because it seemed they expect to impose liberty on everyone else through electoral politics...

As L. Neil Smith says: My one and only "ideological" objective, now, and over the past 45 years (I became a libertarian in 1962, when I was 16 years old, nine years before the Libertarian Party was established), is to create a libertarian society in which I can live and work in freedom. In all that time, I have never been convinced that electing libertarians to office is the best way?or even a possible way?to achieve that objective.  <snip>

In fact, there are so many things wrong with that idea, it's hard to know where to begin taking it apart. I guess the place to start is with the notion that freedom can be imposed on people, from the top down, by elected officials?their political "betters". This, of course, is the precise opposite of what real libertarians want to accomplish.

Those to whom it seems like a good idea often refer to themselves as "practical"?as opposed to the principled individuals they sneer at as "purists". But just how practical is it to attempt to establish a regime in which you have to militate every day against a population that you have made to feel oppressed, just to maintain whatever it is you've gained politically, instead of being able to forge ahead to new goals, with the enthusiastic support of the civilization you're a part of?

In circumstances like that, the struggle for freedom quickly degenerates into a struggle to obtain and keep power, and freedom is forgotten. It's exactly what's gone wrong with every revolution in history.


Lots more here: http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2007/tle416-20070506-02.html

I did join FSW for a number of reasons, one of which is the idea that each of us - and in voluntary cooperation - must create/live our own liberty and demonstrate it to everyone else. It can't be imposed on anyone, any more than we will allow others to impose their philosophy on us.

That makes a lot more sense to me. ML
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Offline TreadNotUponMe

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2007, 08:59:50 AM »
I've been reading about FSP since the beginning. I didn't join them because it seemed they expect to impose liberty on everyone else through electoral politics...

It's my opinion that it's IMPOSSIBLE to "impose liberty" on someone.  Liberty is simply the absence of people imposing things on you. 

I think the point is not to come in and impose an unpopular agenda (which would be impossible seing as there would only 20,000 FSPers compared to 1.2 million natives).  The idea is, 1, they already agree with liberty and 2, the synergistic effect of so many activists will convince more peole to embrace liberty.


I think the two organizations are different and both very useful.  Although I have my concerns about both of them (for those of you that didn't read my other post, I'm the director of web advertising for the FSP...full disclosure).

Offline TreadNotUponMe

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2007, 09:01:35 AM »
Bobcat, thanks for the answer.  Very inciteful.  I definitely am guilty of talking "over and around" people  :-X

Offline zallen

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2007, 09:40:39 AM »
While I currently live in the midwest, I have spent considerable time in AZ, as all of my family is there.? I have also spent many years traveling various parts of the West from the NW to the plains to TX to AZ and in between.? For the record, I have also spent a lot of business time in eastern MA/CT and parts of NY State.?

These are my observations followed with opinions:?
The folks in the East are generally very short with you, or so it appears to non-Easterners.? Some will only give a 'snide' look followed by short, no smile remarks.? During dinner/or a meal, they will often talk over you, through you and around you.? I was told this is 'normal'.? I thought it extremely RUDE.? It is very much a hurry up atmosphere.? There is no relaxing in the 'traditional' sense.? Mistakes are something to blame someone for, not figure out what is wrong and fix it.? Lots of anger.? Seems to be a lot of frustration.? I would say something about Boston, MA specifically, but...(biting tongue).? Most New Englanders love their beautiful states and would never leave, ever.? I can understand that.

West: Folks are wary of outsiders, more so outside cities, but friendly.? You will be quickly sized up as a 'threat' or not.? If not, heaps of hospitality will cover you.? If a threat/unfriendly/unrespectful, you will be minimally helped with hopes of you leaving ASAP.? (I have seen this happen a couple of times-well founded concerns).? In many places in the West, folks have walked right up (and I them) and started conversations like they've know me all their life.? In the East, this would be suspicious, at best.? Relaxing means relaxing, sometimes saying nothing.? Plain speaking is respected.? Game playing in conversation is decidedly NOT.

Big cities, like Phoenix are, IMO, no longer follow the 'rules of the West'.? Phoenix has been 'ruined', IMO, by the influx of Kalifornia refugees during the 80's/90's.? They brought their govco intrusionist philosophies and nasty driving habits with them.? Just the way it is.? In the 60's, it was not unusual to see someone on a horse (packing heat) on the outskirts of town, especially Scottsdale.? I have not seen that for at least ten years.

NE'ers place great importance on heritage- if you're not three honorable generations deep in NE, you ain't much.? If you're not educated at some high mucky muck Ivy League or something similar, you're a 'lower' class.? Education is frequently asked about in professional circles and is even on some business cards!

In the West, you will be given some benefit of the doubt up front.? Your heritage is not that important, maybe interesting conversation, but not that important unless you have a history of being a problem.? Honesty is a highly sought after commodity and well respected in the West.? If you are full of BS or lie, you WILL BE shunned.? If you do what you say, respect other folks property and are willing to put in a fair days work, all is fine.? Folks will be courteous, but liars and dishonest types are on their own.? Part of the live and let live (within some bounds) philosophy.

Eastern folks can be friendly if; you are an Easterner or have Eastern 'heritage' (my grandfather was from NY, but nullified by my great grandfather being from Oregon), they want something (no kidding) or they finally get to know you (takes gobs of time, if ever).? Accents are most telling.? And yes, I do still have some friends out there.

Property rights in the East don't mean that much.? Government is highly intrusive, especially in cities/towns.? Taxes are many and high.? Protecting yourself in the East means calling the cops.? Really.? I've been told such, more than once.

(Qualifier: BIG cities notwithstanding) Property rights in the West are highly valued.? Govco is less intrusive, as most folks reject or don't want the 'help'.? Taxes are generally fewer and less.? Protecting yourself and your neighbors is EXPECTED.? The cops can't be everywhere and with distances and low population densities, you will be taking care of yourself, AND your neighbors by default.? The cops are usually NOT called first, they are simply backup for serious stuff or handling caught criminals.? Self reliance is the standard.

Folks out West tend to be more independent and will fend for themselves more often that not.? Govco is seen as an intrusion and impediment to getting things done.? In the East it is, generally, the opposite, as govco approval is needed/wanted just to __________ .(fill in the blank with almost anything)

Open range (a few general rules) vs. tightly observed property and fence lines.? Castle doctrine generally applies in the West (and a few Midwest states).? In the East, no, if you shoot an intruder, you will be the one in jail.

These are just my observations over several decades.? By no means do I mean to insult any Easterners.? You Easterners know the habits and nutty pace of life there.? I'll admit, the countryside-(way out) is more relaxed, but nothing like out West or even in the Midwest.? The scenery in NE was beautiful, but the price in lost freedom and short fused folks was/is not worth it-for me.

Life in the West can be harsh and unforgiving if you decide to live outside the 'comforts' of a large city.? Respect for physical surroundings and people are an integral part of life. Yes, there are all kinds of personalities everywhere, that's part of what makes life so interesting?
 
Many simple things, like water, can be tough to get.? Fire protection may mean an evacuation plan instead of fighting a fire, particularly a wildfire.? Snowed in can mean many days or more without electricity and access to the outside world.? Travel on mountain roads without guardrails has a certain 'pucker factor' that is not for the faint of heart, add snow and yikes!, better to just stay home if you can.? Snow plowing may only happen after 4-6 inches of snow and then not everyday.? Roads off the main highways are usually gravel and in various states of maintenance.? IMHO, these kinds of living conditions cause folks to be more independent and resilient in the face of difficulties.? Common sense applies and is a respected attribute.

These are just my observations and opinions over the years.? This country boy found the attitudes in the East not conducive to a harmonious outcome.? Just my personal preference.? A lot of Eastern folks would never leave and think most of us not there to be 'hicks'.? Fine. :)? Live and let live, just keep your Socialist attitudes in the East. ~W~

Wow!  Can you type!  I'm an advocate of the hunt and peck method myself.  Being a life long Yankee with the exception of 5 years in hell - I mean Florida - I have to take umbrage with a couple of your statements.  I realize it's just your opinion, and this is just mine. :D

First PUH LEEZ don't paint us with such a broad brush.  While I whole-heartedly agree with your assesment of Massholes and CT is just northern NYC, Southern NH and Southern ME a suburb of Boston Ma.  I think if you got into the smaller Northern towns you'd find people very much like the ones you describe out west.  I have to admit there does seem to be a "townie" mentality but I think this stems from people being very wary of Massholes moving into their town and voting for every tax and social program to come down the pike.  We're not ALL rude snobs and sob's. 
Sounds like you weren't around us "little people".

That being said...................................






I cant WAIT to move to WY !!!!!!! ;D
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
-Ben Franklin

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
-Winston Churchill

Offline MamaLiberty

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2007, 10:07:02 AM »
Actually, I met a lot of warm and wonderful people in Massachusetts, New York, New Hampshire and Vermont when I spent a week there. The small town of Great Barrington was filled with all kinds of folks, naturally, but many of those I met in the stores, churches and byways were honest people who welcomed me generously. I didn't meet any Vermont farmers who thought Lenin was a great guy... I was born and raised in southern California, but I've never wanted to impose that statist government on anyone, and I know a lot of warm and honest people in California too.

The question here, as I understand it, wasn't the difference in the people east and west, but the difference in goal and scope between FSP and FSW.

Those who are joining these two organizations are coming from all over the country, so the focus has to be on individual goals and philosophy, seems to me, not where they're coming from. Let's not get lost in generalizations or stereotypes, please!

 
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Offline bobcat

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2007, 10:36:54 AM »
sjhipple, hopefully I didn't 'incite' a riot ;), unless it would be riotous laughter at me. :D  ::)

zallen: I am a keyboard typer from waaay back.  Funny story.  Took typing class in High School to meet girls.  ;D  ::)  Just one of those 'dumb reason' decisions that actually has proved beneficial years down the road.  ;)

Maybe I stepped in it.  Not the first time.  This kind of conversation is best f2f.  Electronic communication is great, but it leaves a lot out.  Let me see if I can extract myself...
Not intending to paint ALL with a broad brush.  Sorry.  Maybe I did not clarify/qualify enough.  My oops.  Most of my contact was city/industrial/commercial as a Sr. Application/Design Engineer.  Many times issues preceded my visits from both perspectives.  Folks just seem to get agitated and angry much quicker.  I compare that to the Midwest, Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon.   I have been hammered HARD by folks in the East.  Maybe it was circumstance?  After dozens of encounters, I don't think so.  Could have been the region, MA and CT, parts of NY State.  My best tack was to not get upset and let them vent.  Eventually, things would calm and we could get something done.  I just had to let the anger roll off my back.  I always took copious notes in the East, as I usually needed them later.  Other parts of the country, not so much.  Just my experiences over many years....

However, casual contact with various people in restaraunts, hotels, airports, malls, businesses was pretty much the same.  Distant, seemingly uncaring, unsmiling appeared to be the norm.  I did have occasion, yes rarely, to be 'in the country' and it was much nicer.  But I still found folks to be somewhat 'distant', conversant, but 'distant'.  I did not necessarily take offense (that would be immature/silly on my part), I just saw it as a CULTURAL difference that I had to figure out how to communicate with.  It was difficult at times.  Boston, MA was just flat terrible.  The two crab shacks I visited near Aberdeen, MD were quite pleasant. 

Another point to make is that most of the liberals are in the East and continue to vote in the likes of Kennedy, Kerry, et al.  Yes, I know, there are conservatives there, but they are few and far between.  Prior to her death, I knew a Republican county chairperson.  She knew it was an uphill battle and clued me in on legislative acitivities in MA.  Yikes,  the majority of folks in the East prefer to have more gubmint? 

If you move out West, your 'talking habits' will likely change due to your being respectful of others (benefit of the doubt that you are) and just blending in.  When I traveled to NE, I had to put on my East Coast game face and just deal with it.  It always seemed stressful. 

Oh, and you won't be standing nose to nose with folks either.  Generally a few feet apart.  -Respecting 'space'.  Another interesting difference.   ;)  Just some cultural differences...  The pace of life is just a little slower, but not wasteful.  As MamaLiberty has put it: "It all depends." 

About the only place I found in MA unstressful and relaxing was having dinner at the top of Tom's Mountain (or Mount Tom, near Springfield, MA) with predominately Midwest folks.  Beautiful sunsets!  NE does have beautiful geography.

I 'sorta' figured it out, but never got used to it.

Hopefully this helps.  Please let me know if I still have my foot in my mouth.    :)

Gotta get back to work...
Bobcat  

"Those who would sacrifice Liberty for security, deserve neither Liberty or security."  -Benjamin Franklin
"Citizenship is not a spectator sport"  -K Denninger

Offline zallen

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Re: Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2007, 11:29:03 AM »
The preceeding would have taken me approximately 20 minutes of typing!!  Wow. 

I took typing in HS too, my problem was I was always the "nice guy".  Girls at my school were only interested in the troubled James Dean types.  Oh well HS was not a place I ever much liked and certainly don't miss.  'sides, I'm married with 2 kids now so I can let myself go. ;D

No harm no foul, I didn't find anything offensive what so ever.  I'm a long fuse guy anyway :D  Speaking of voting for Kennedy I talk with people from MA daily and they "not only have never voted for him but don't know anyone who has".  Go figure.

No, as I said earlier I love my little state but it's becoming increasingly more for it's landscape than for it's population.  I'd love to move to the "wide open spaces" but it's an uphill battle on my wife's side.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
-Ben Franklin

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
-Winston Churchill