Is FSW really any different than 'The Free State Project' ??

[zallen]

Ok I'm a total newb here so let me explain my reasons for asking.? Also please forgive my rambling...
First off I've wanted to live free for some years now (since my eyes were finally opened) and get increasingly agitated, agravated, frustrated and any other "ated" you can think of.? Some of my first forays into this began after reading a few of Vin Suprynowicz's columns in the ShotGun News (Sorry Boston - you came later).? In the interest of full disclosure I at first thought "this guy (V.S.) is a total ass".? Then I read it again and checked out his facts.? DING!?

I started reading everything I could lay my hands on and eventually found out about The Free State Project.? Awesome says I, it's right here in my own home state of NH!? I tried to join immediately but was told I couldn't because I was already here.? Undeterred I lurked on the blogs and listened to what these "great people" had to say.

............................... Man, what a disappointment.

They have thus far met none of their goals, take no active part in trying to get Libertarians elected, and are - as I like to say- all show and no go.?

I'm just a working slob, not an engineer or grand high mucky muck.? To my eyes these guys are sycophantic pin heads.? Far from trying to be a community they shun anyone who does not agree with every little nuance they sputter.

Then I ran across FSW thanks to one of Boston's books (not Molon Labe incidentally) and said this looks more like it.? I agree with Boston on many of the points he laid out in favor of Wyoming, but I have some concerns.

Are FSW people talkers or walkers ?? From what little I've read here you seem to have quite a few down to earth people and that's what I'm looking for.? Free Staters seem to be more interested in arguing the semantics of Libertarianism than in actually getting anything done.? I'm not a Libertarian in the truest sense but I do lean that way.? I just want to live someplace where I can be left alone if that's what I choose.

[FSW Forum Administrator]

I might be a bit biased, as I run/host the Forum, but I'd have to say FSW is a group for doers.

* Quite a few people have moved to Wyoming already (including families) or are in the process of moving. I don't have any numbers, Boston would have to provide those.

* This Forum, while quite active, is just a starting point. Those in Wyoming are building their relationships/communities. They are hosting get togethers, organized and impromptu.

* This spring will be the fourth Jam. Last year there were 125+ people in attendance from across Wyoming and the US. Heck, I drove from Cleveland, OH with my wife to attend. I'll be doing the same again this spring, and with the kids in tow this time to boot. Mac came up from Nevada. Lance came up California. etc. etc.

* Involvement in the political scene is made easier by the efforts of Paul B over in his Liberty Index area of the Forum. If politics is your thing, contact him. He can point you in the right direction or put you to work helping out with the Index. hehe

* There is no "official" party line to toe. We've got everything from hard core Libertarians to pro-gun Republicans and more. Read enough of the threads and you'll find some of the debates get quite rough and tumble. If the debate gets into a flame war, yeah we'll step in. As long as one is debating ideas and facts, debate away. Yeah, you'll find semantics arguements here also, but we try to keep those to a minimum as the goal is to "get boots on the ground" in Wyoming.

[zallen]

Wow, that was fast.? Thanks.

While I love a good rational debate politics are definitely not my thing.?

You say you drove from Ohio?? Do you have plans on making a move ?? Is your wife intersted in it as well or just going because you are ?? If you'd rather not answer I understand.? The reason I ask is my wife is very reluctant to make that big a move.? I've only recently had any success getting her interested at all.? I think I might be able to persuade her - but it's going to mean persuading her sister and her husband as well.? He hates the cold.

[FSW Forum Administrator]

Wow, that was fast.  Thanks.

hehe Just lucky timing. I randomly pop in to check things throughout the day.

You say you drove from Ohio?  Do you have plans on making a move ?  Is your wife intersted in it as well or just going because you are ?  If you'd rather not answer I understand.  The reason I ask is my wife is very reluctant to make that big a move.  I've only recently had any success getting her interested at all.  I think I might be able to persuade her - but it's going to mean persuading her sister and her husband as well.  He hates the cold.

I'd like to eventually. I'd move in a heartbeat if it were just me. But reluctant wife, kids, and to much debt present quite an obstacle at this time.

My wife is somewhat interested but doesn't want to live so far from family. She's also a year into building a web design and consulting business. I'm working on my wife though.

I've got three kids who live in Dayton with their mother (my ex-wife). Not much I can do about that situation right now.

We're working on paying off a mountain of debt.

In the meantime, I do what I can to spread the word to others.

[Dr. Alan]

HEY! Welcome, Zallen. I've enjoyed your posts and you sound like a lot of us on this Board; but I do have a quick question: You mentioned that your wife's sister's husband "hates the cold", well then how in the world does he put up with NH? Last I heard it gets pretty cold up there as well. Of course what do I know about the cold; I live in Arkansas where we shiver at 30+ degrees!!

Shalom, Dr. Alan

[zallen]

HEY! Welcome, Zallen. I've enjoyed your posts and you sound like a lot of us on this Board; but I do have a quick question: You mentioned that your wife's sister's husband "hates the cold", well then how in the world does he put up with NH? Last I heard it gets pretty cold up there as well. Of course what do I know about the cold; I live in Arkansas where we shiver at 30+ degrees!!

Shalom, Dr. Alan

He puts up with the cold because he loves his wife.  My wife and her sister are inseperable.  My wife and I spent 5 years in hell Florida which was horrible for both of them.  VERY large phone bill !  When we finally came back to our senses and returned to NH it wasn't the same state we left.  It's true what they say "You can't ever go home again".

My brother-in-law would love to move to FL but short of divorcing my wife's sister it's not going to happen.  She won't leave my wife (and we're not going!!!!!!!!!)  So basically we're a package deal

As far as the temp today it's 6 with wind chill to -20.  That's winter and it doesn't bother me in the least.  The way I see it there's only a few things keeping me here now.

My parents - my grandfather, whom I loved dearly, passed away while I was in FL and I won't take my children away from my parents.
My wife and her sister (this one shouldn't be too hard, my wife loves me (G*d knows why, but she does) and knows it's what I want.
Employment - I'm hoping to be gainfully self employed by the time I'm ready to pull up stakes. G*d willing.

[wyomiles]

Howdy Zallen, glad you found us.  So if you already live in NH the FSP won't let you join ? Thats weird. We have several Wyoming folks here and I hope many more will join us. I guess all I can say is to see if you can get your wife and inlaws to take a "vacation" to Wyoming during the JAM this spring. It is a great way to meet many of the people here and you and yours will get a real feel for us. Take your time and look around. Lots of great info here and if possible see if your wife or sister in law will take a look at the ladies threads. Have them ask any questions they may have.   Miles

http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?board=46.0

[zallen]

When and where is the "Jam" ?

[wyomiles]

Here is the thread. Boston will fill in the blanks soon.   Miles

http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php?topic=3143.0

BTP NOTE:
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum//index.php?topic=3143.msg26567#msg26567[/color]

[MamaLiberty]

Oh, and Zallen, the daytime high temp here in Newcastle, WY today is 50 degrees, and it's only supposed to be about 39 tonight...  I had some windows open for an hour or so around noon.

Of course, that's not the usual for January here, but we're enjoying it.

I came from the desert of Southern California. If I can adjust to Wyoming weather, seems almost anyone else should be able to. It's more than worth it to breathe free and have elbow room... with great neighbors and friends all around besides.

Hope you can all come to the Jam. Let us know how we can help! MamaLiberty

[Jared]

With my southern facing blinds open, but the windows closed, it got to 73 in my house today!

[wyomiles]

Gotta love that Wyoming sunshine.   Miles

[zallen]

Oh, and Zallen, the daytime high temp here in Newcastle, WY today is 50 degrees, and it's only supposed to be about 39 tonight...? I had some windows open for an hour or so around noon.

Of course, that's not the usual for January here, but we're enjoying it.

I came from the desert of Southern California. If I can adjust to Wyoming weather, seems almost anyone else should be able to. It's more than worth it to breathe free and have elbow room... with great neighbors and friends all around besides.

Hope you can all come to the Jam. Let us know how we can help! MamaLiberty

Thanks, that means quite a bit to me.  Did you move out for the FSW or is it just lucky happen stance ?  Is your spouse involved ?
I don't mean to pry, but I've been "working" on my wife for some time now.  She made me quite happy last night by the way; they're passing a law in ME that makes it illegal to smoke in your own car if children are present - (neither of us smoke btw) my darling wife said "that's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard" G*d I love that woman!  Our own "Live Free or Die" state is becoming less free every year as well.  It's nice to not have to grumble to myself about it all the time.

I actually mentioned wanting to vacation in WY this year (I even told her "For this, I'll even fly out"  now she has a proper perspective on my commitment - I love flying, but I HATE all the bs.)

Probably won't make it this year though.  The economy has really tanked here (at least the housing industry) and things are pretty tight.  I look forward to some reports though!

[MamaLiberty]

Thanks, that means quite a bit to me.  Did you move out for the FSW or is it just lucky happen stance ?  Is your spouse involved ?

Zallen, I don't mind at all sharing with you here. I moved to Wyoming FIRST because I believed that's what God wanted me to do. I was already talking to the FSW bunch for quite a while before, and joined them when I got here. They've helped me so much, and I know I would not be here except for their encouragement and presence in Wyoming.

I've been a widow for more than 20 years, so I came all alone. My dear Joe would have loved Wyoming. Sure wish we'd come when he could have come with me. Such is life... ML

[Danl]

Zallen,

Scrape every dime you can together and get to the jam.? It will sell it self.? Jobs are in abundance NOW.? You can make great money have great friends with liberty on their minds and in their hearts.? And scenery is great as well.

Just get to the jam, it will answer the questions and let you breathe some Free air for a while .

Regards, Danl