Author Topic: Wyoming and its challenges  (Read 22926 times)

Offline wyomiles

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2008, 07:59:15 PM »
Don't say I didn't warn you !  :P
It is best to ignore duncan. He will go on and on for pages about how bad things are. Same old recording. Plus if you read his posts carefully you will see that he lives in Colorado not Wyoming. But he knows everything bad that ever happened in Wyoming. I feel very sad for him really.
" Cultivators of the earth are tied to their country and wedded to it's liberty and interests by the most lasting bonds" --Thomas Jefferson --1785

Offline rhodges

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2008, 08:20:42 PM »
From his writings on the old freewest.org forums, the FSW-discuss Yahoo forums, and now this forum, I gather that Mr. Duncan Philps is a bitter fellow who will never find freedom.

For those especially curious types, google returns some unpleasant accusations against Duncan Philps.
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Offline Danl

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2008, 08:22:37 PM »
I will say that it takes some pretty good cahones to make a stand as indicated in the above posted links.  I am not sure that is the best way but I will say that your heart appears to be in the right place to freedom issues.  I am not so sure that your practice is the best way........  Time will tell.

Regards, Danl ~W~
Alea iacta est, Molon Labe!
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Offline manfromnevada

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2008, 08:34:52 PM »
Duncan,
Your rambling and idiotic reply to my last post deserves even less than this brief reply.
Mac
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
<Edmund Burke>

Offline Boston

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2008, 03:05:32 PM »
Duncan, I've looked over your posts, read the objections of others
here to you (which included even a PM).  I don't think we're a very
good mix.  Please do not post here any more.  Good luck.

Boston

Offline celeste

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2008, 11:11:11 PM »
I still support him.  He is still right. The things he points out, albeit negatives, are true.  Why do you all just shoot him down?  What he poses is aCTUALLY THE TRUE STATE OF FREEDOM IN wYOMING.  dO YOU JUST WANT TO BURY YOUR HEAD INT HE SAND AND ACT LIKE THESE THINGS DONT EXISIT?
Born in Wyoming and Staying in Wyoming

Offline Jared

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2008, 11:20:51 PM »
c, I think it's the doom and gloom attitude we can do without.  FWIW the subject line of this thread is my words, when I split his reply off from the other thread.  If duncan had titled his initial post in a fresh thread he likely would have used a less optimistic word than "challenges".

Problems, issues, challenges, etc --- yes that's fine we can identify them and then constructively discuss ways to deal with them, not just lament the sorry state of things and cop a "woe are us" [sic] attitude.

As Dale Carnegie said, "Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do."
"Nothing good in life comes but at a price. Sweetest of all is liberty. This we have chosen and this we pay for."

Offline MamaLiberty

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2008, 06:05:38 AM »
I still support him.  He is still right. The things he points out, albeit negatives, are true.  Why do you all just shoot him down?  What he poses is aCTUALLY THE TRUE STATE OF FREEDOM IN wYOMING.  dO YOU JUST WANT TO BURY YOUR HEAD INT HE SAND AND ACT LIKE THESE THINGS DONT EXISIT?

There is a big difference between recognizing challenges and problems, and in insisting that there is NOTHING but problems and that there is nothing positive or good available.

We are all bright enough to see the problems, but we don't come here to beat each other over the head with them. It would seem most of us want to discuss things, including those challenges, in a way that would help us work on them and overcome them - not insist that the sky has fallen and there is no use in living anymore because of it.

Duncan seems to have given up on liberty and the positive things in life altogether. He's welcome to do that for himself - and I feel sorry for such people- but he can't insist that we join him in it.
It's not that people are dumber, it's that stupidity used to be more painful.

Offline kylben

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2008, 08:12:37 AM »
I still support him.  He is still right. The things he points out, albeit negatives, are true.  Why do you all just shoot him down?  What he poses is aCTUALLY THE TRUE STATE OF FREEDOM IN wYOMING.  dO YOU JUST WANT TO BURY YOUR HEAD INT HE SAND AND ACT LIKE THESE THINGS DONT EXISIT?

As to the true state of WY, I'm not there, so I can't judge.  But in my experience, there's a difference between what can happen and what does happen. What's on the books and what it done in practice - the legal climate and the cultural climate.  The "true state" would consider both, even while recognizing that what can happen is still a threat even if it rarely actually does happen. 

But some people look for, and find, the worst in everything they do.  I'm guessing that duncan went out of his way to make sure that the right people noticed him and took an interest in the outcome of whatever issue was at hand.  He made sure that what could happen, that rarely does to most people, did actually happen to him.  He has a martyr complex, he gets more out of being able to say he's oppressed, in the hopes of riling up somebody else to do something about it, than he does from, for instance, actually getting a CCW.  Actually trying to get a CCW - trying to live his own life the best he can - implies taking responsibility. Cowards are uncomfortable with that, and persistent open defiance, confrontation, and provocation are often a sign of moral cowardice.

There's a lot of people like that in libertarian circles, - there's whole discussion boards devoted to just that kind of approach - and I try to make as wide a path around them as I can.

To your last part, what ML said, plus the sheer volume of his provocations lowered the signal to noise ratio to below useful levels.
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Offline wyomiles

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2008, 03:28:22 PM »
Celeste , I sent you a PM.
I think Jared, Mama and Kylben said it well. Sure we all have stories that show that Wyoming has bad people in it. I have a few that would curl your toes but I prefer to focus on the future and my hope that the folks here at FSW will actually be able to make a difference. As Boston said I do not think Duncan is a good fit. I would rather be associated with folks who are more positive than Duncan.
 Miles
" Cultivators of the earth are tied to their country and wedded to it's liberty and interests by the most lasting bonds" --Thomas Jefferson --1785

Offline Brandy

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2008, 03:46:35 PM »
Seems we ought do the neighborly thing--DUNCAN--and keep our mouths shut.  I live in Wyoming, therefore, I can talk about it.  I do not live in CO, NM, CA, IL, etc, therefore I CANNOT talk about what happens there.  Doesn't matter that at one point you lived here.  Actions speak--I live here and I am working to prevent the downfall of a wonderful place. 

Besides too much time on the mind numbing internet make Jack a boy who looses touch with reality.

Brandy
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Offline Pumpkihn

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2008, 05:48:07 PM »
All I know is that I live in Iowa, and I'm guessing there are places much worse, and WY seems like a different world, in terms of freedom, from where I am now.  I am originally from rural Texas and Iowa was a big step down in liberty.  Wyoming seem even better than TX.  I don't know if I'll ever make it out there, but I darn sure want to.  I want to breathe that free air.

Offline duncan

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2008, 06:12:16 PM »
"Good heavens, duncan... I did look very briefly at TMM, and I wonder if you are related to planetaryjim... Similar MO... and just as verbose."

Nope, never heard of the guy.

"Your negativity is deafening, but I've not seen a word about what you propose to fix all the horrors you talk about. Do you have anything to offer except negative crap and poorly veiled insults?"

negative or simply beign realistic? What have you done for liberty lately?   

"Do you have anything to offer except negative crap and poorly veiled insults?"

Do the factsd aobut WY bother you that much?

"Shorter duncan:  I want my freedom now, now, now, now... stomps feet and balls fists.  Gimme it, it's mine!"

I had freedom, we all did years ago. I saw it go down the tubes at the point so many people began pouring into CO and I see the same thing happening in Laramie County. More people means more laws and more government and more taxes. That has been the scenario of the entire front range since the 1970's. You create a quandry for yourselves by asking that more and more people move to WY to join your so-called movement. More people mean higher housing costs whihc translates into higher proerty taxes and the theft of private wealth used to feed local government will encourgage it to grow and grow along with the population.

"Yes, I checked him out on TMM too... almost makes me sorry I gave him the benefit of the doubt earlier.  He's the kind of guy who is itching for a fight, but would rather incite somebody else to start it for him - and to do most of the fighting for him.  He doesn't want to work at getting his freedom, he wants to lash out at whoever doesn't just hand it to him, perfectly formed, on a silver platter."

I've spent the last twenty years fighting for freedom while others sat around whining about losing it. What have you doen for liberyt lately?

"He'll find trouble all right, he's probably a regular magnet for it, and woe to anyone hanging around with him when he does."

Trouble finds me because I actually fight for gun rights rather than write cheap sci-fi novels about it.
 
 
 
 

Offline kylben

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2008, 06:31:30 PM »
Quote
I've spent the last twenty years fighting for freedom while others sat around whining about losing it. What have you doen for liberyt lately?

I obviously don't know what you do, for all I know you could be the most effective champion of liberty the world has ever seen.  If so, you're pretty lousy at writing about it and inspiring others, because it sounds to me like you confuse fighting over liberty with fighting for it.  And you confuse fighting for it with building it.

So long as you keep thinking freedom comes from other people, you'll keep having to fight other people - you've already decided to be a slave to them. So long as you keep asking, and demanding, you'll have to keep fighting on the defensive. 

Just take it.  And here's a clue:  guns aren't for getting your freedom, they're for keeping it.   
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Offline duncan

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Re: Wyoming and its challenges
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2008, 06:55:19 PM »
"Duncan, As a transplant here, I take offense at your comments. I am in Casper and manage a business here. We can't seem to get good help here. Our local competition( for jobs) Mc D is paying the high schooler 9.50hr to flip burgers. That is normal for the entire area. If you like freedom this is the place to go. live and let live is what I see to a great extent. Like Danl says try IL or Ma for a eye opening experience. my .02"

Wow 9.50 an hour. Is everyone here a high schooler? Could you live in Casper on $9.50 an hour? I've heard that the new Wal-mart in Casper is hiring mentally disabled people to man the cash registers, because the locals refuse to work for $8.50 an hour, they can't afford to work for such a low amount. I never found much of anything good about Casper. It always impressed me as nothing but an oil town with constant lay offs. Mac do is not paying $9.50 an hour in Cheyenne and there is no Mac-do in many parts of the state.

The wal-mart distribution center in Cheyenne is playing this same game of low pay and then whining about the fact that no one is interested in their operation. Wal-mart knew before they moved here that there would be a labor shortage and that people from Ft. Collins and Greeley would not be able to commute that far. So why did they do it? Why are they suddenly shipping in cheap labor from Mexico? Ummmm. If you are from Casper then why not ask the locals why they refuse to work for $9.5 an hour. Doesn't the market set the pay?

"Seems we ought do the neighborly thing--DUNCAN--and keep our mouths shut.  I live in Wyoming, therefore, I can talk about it.  I do not live in CO, NM, CA, IL, etc, therefore I CANNOT talk about what happens there.  Doesn't matter that at one point you lived here.  Actions speak--I live here and I am working to prevent the downfall of a wonderful place."

I live in Carpenter, Wyoming and own property here.  I've lived in Kemmerer and have worked near Rock Springs. Not at one point, I live here now. You need to learn to read. I never told any of you to shut up. Not much freedom in this movement. Many of you act like local government officials, if you don't like what a guy has to say about something then shut him up.

I get to talk about any state or place I want to talk about wether I live there or not and I never limit myself.

"Besides too much time on the mind numbing internet make Jack a boy who looses touch with reality."

I think that many of you have lost touch with reality. I have yet to see a surge in the states population since the inception of this FSW program began over seven years ago. In fact that poputlaion hasn't gone up much at all in the last twenty years and when they finish drilling fror oil it will go back down.The reality is that it ain't happening and the big reason is ain't happening is because the majority of people cannot or will not conform to your lifestyles. Anarchy and self suffiency all look good on paper in some cheap sci-fi novel, but in practice it only works for the few. It can't work for a person who might be disabled and needs to be close to a hospital, which barely if at all exists in a place like Crook County. It won't work if you are oh say a lawyer or a doctor. Alot of time a persons profession sets the city and or town that they live. Wyoming has a very small manufacturing base and you might want to asks yourselves why this is. What is the mainstay of Crook County? Cattle and farming.

Does anyone have any remote idea as to why women were given the right to vote in Wyoming? It had nothing to do with womens rights and the sufferage movement. Wyoming wanted statehood so that they could get federal revenues and other stuff and so they need more voters on paper to appease the fed into granting them statehood and to ensure that they could get statehood they granted widows who held large tracts of property the right to vote. Land Barons were behind this caper. The good ole boys club.

Why was Tom Horn never given a fair trial and hung for a crime he never commited? The local land barons didn't want to hang for the crime of murder and so they set Horn up. The Cheyenne Cattleman's Association may no longer exist in name, but it still exist in practice in SE Wyoming. The good ole boys clubs still exist in WY just like they still exists in the ohter 49 states. I saw a biker get murdered at a bar in Cheyenne and his killers were never even arrested, thanks to the good ole boys club of Cheyenne.

Why do you think that there are three indian tribes in and around Riverton? Who and what do you think put them there? How did two tribes from SE CO end up in the middle of WY? If you are in Riverton ask one of the locals why. Wyoming is no better or worse than other places for government corruption.

What are you people afriad of? The truth? You moved here thinking that WY would be your Utopia? Who fed you people that garbage? I've found that SW SD has more freedom and liberty than does SE WY. Why not move there? Many of you stated that you all want to move to the most free place in amerika why not southern Montana?