Wyoming and its challenges

[Pumpkihn]

That's the saddest story I've heard all day. 

Restrict our freedom to keep us free.  That's fantastic.

[M1A4ME]

Mama Liberty, if your county is like the one I live in then the county commissioners are real estate agents, lawyers, builders, etc. and stand to make piles of money out of controlling when/where/who builds what where they let them.  It's a real joke here.  A few years ago one of the local politicians bought a farm adjacent to the route of a interstate highway that was under construction.  Of course he bought it a couple of years before the route that took it by his newly purchased farm was announced to the public (hopefully no one will realize the country commissioner bought the land for a couple hundred thousand just two years ago).  Once the route was announced he was able to make a million or so off his little farm due to the desire of other folks to build shopping malls, subdivisions, etc. on his land, now that the interstate passed right by it.

Someone, however, did realize and the question was raised and the answer was - what the county commissioner did was not illegal, just immoral, taking advantage of inside information and all.

My wife says those folks eventually pay for their actions, problem is its just not soon enough to suit me.

[freedomunrestricted]

Being a wyoming native born and raised, there are a few questions that I have come up with.  While not agreeing with the tone or mentality of his delivery I do believe duncan has brought up a couple good points.  Why are people fleeing other states to come to wyoming rather than try to be involved and get others involved in their own states?  It does seem that alot of people on these forums try to mystify wyoming a bit on how wonderful it is, and its a shining star of freedom in a world of oppression.  And it seems some have specific agendas to promote wyoming as a wonderful place, trying to convice as many people as possible to move here.  But at what point does it become no different than anywhere else? 

It isn't hard to find places in wyoming that have no cellphone coverage, for the most part malls and large shopping centers are non existent. Most towns especially in the western part of the state are at least 50-100miles apart from the next, and in between there is absolutely nothing but open prairies.  Law enforcement and government is stretched thin across the state,  and all of this is largely due to wyoming being the least populated state in the union. 

Don't get me wrong but especially with the oil and gas industry boom in the past decade I have a decent amount of friends from all over the country.  But it seems running from somewhere else to escape government and injustices somewhere else is pretty self defeating, personally I would rather stand my ground and fight for what I believe in.  I lived in North Carolina first near charlotte for school, then east carolina for work for 5years prior to moving back last year.  And honestly can't say that I noticed much difference between there or here other than a few more trees, warmer winters and a few more trees.

Also people should realize too that right now the wyoming economy is in a boom, and considering the industry being oil and gas which we as a country are in short supply of we are a bit insulated from the rest of the country in the current economy situation.  Wyoming went through its last boom through most of the '70s but unfortunately alot of buildings went vacant in the 80's and 90's simply because there wasn't much else to replace the oilfield jobs to keep people here.  Rock Springs is still a good example of that today, in downtown there are still a few buildings left empty.  Two major food chain stores closed their doors and eventually where renovated into car dealerships about a decade later after the city started to boom again.  And 3-4 grade schools where shut down due to the lack of students.   So yea right now things might be pretty rosy in wyoming, when they stop poking holes in the earth for resources if they haven't brought in any other long term jobs to keep roughnecks here expect a lot of other jobs to leave the state with them.

[MamaLiberty]

If you find yourself ALONE, among a million or so cannibals who daily want to eat you, there isn't any point in trying to talk them out of it. They are not interested, and they have you outnumbered.

I moved to Wyoming because here I would have friends and neighbors around who are NOT cannibals and are NOT trying to eat me.

On the other hand, I don't need big cities, shopping malls or any of the rest of that stuff. I'm happy here in rural Wyoming and plan to stay.

No, it's not perfect, and yes we've got a job to do to stay free, but staying in Southern California with the cannibals was not an option for me. I tried it your way for more than 40 years and made no progress whatsoever in changing the cannibals into freedom loving people. It can't be done.

[freedomunrestricted]

If it is truly is as bad as you say it is then you have done nothing more than delay the inevitable.  Because unfortunately there are "cannibals" already here and more showing up on a daily basis.  6 months ago the county commisoners decided to put a sign on the front entrance that said no concealed weapons of any kind where allowed in the building, these actions where not provoked by anything.  About 5 miles north of the rock springs city limits, where a decent amount of people live because they can have horses, chickens, ducks and other livestock.  There was some laws they tried to put on the books that would have made it illegal to have animals out there if it was anything more than a couple dogs and cats. And be able to fine people if it was decided that they had to much "junk" on their properties.  All of this was done to increase the desirability of people moving to the area, and help increase property values, in large part it has failed for now but it does not seem we have seen the end of it.

[MamaLiberty]

You don't seem to be listening.

I spent 40 years fighting the bureaucracy and crap in California with NO results at all. NONE, ZIP, NADA. I was basically alone, fighting a rip tide.

Here there are still people who will fight the crap, as evidenced by your own examples! Here I have friends, neighbors and new "family" with similar values and goals, and we at least are not fighting alone.

We're not expecting perfection, or utopia, Utopia is not an option. I'm just glad to live where at least some of the folks around me still understand what it means to run their own lives... and intend to go on doing so.

Seems like you need to spend more time up north in the rural areas. The cities are always going to be home to those who would rather live by plunder and coercion.

[Pumpkihn]

You didn't say, but I'm guessing you've lived in Wyoming most of your life.  I think that affects your view a little.  I was born and raised in Texas.  While there, I felt oppressed by the ever more imposing government, then 10 years ago, I moved from Texas to Iowa.  Iowa is about middle of the road I'd say as states go, Texas being more conservative.  I can't believe the difference.  I feel imprisoned.  I can't get a gun permit, the taxes are unbelievable, there is no land to roam, a zillion zoning laws.  It's terrible.  I can only imagine what it would be like in Southern California or New England.  Living in the microcosm of Wyoming, you've seen the statists encroach on your life more and more.  It is disturbing I know.  Over your lifetime the change has been unbelievable.  But, I assure you, it is night and day different some places out there.  The difference with Wyoming is, that you've still got a chance.  That's more than I can say for 3/4 or more of this country.  As with anything in your life, you don't know how good you have it until you lose it.

[freedomunrestricted]

Yea I'm listening, but I also read a post on how a few people on these forums are fed up with the way the government and refuse to vote.  Attitudes like that is what got people into the current situation they are trying to get away from.  And I have spent time up north in the Pinedale/Cora area as well as Big Piney and labarge and can honestly say things aren't much better.  Property tax increases are pushing out alot of people and making it harder for ranchers to own large plots of land for cattle. The hollywood type multimillonaires are pushing the millionares out of jackson hole and into these areas and they in tern pushing out those in 100k brackets. In a place that has more bars than churches, sweetwater county made it illegal about 6months ago for anyone to smoke in bars and restaurants that are open to the public.  So while many of you are looking forward to the freedoms compared to where you are or where I feel the noose tightening around this great state.

And yea pumkihn I mentioned at the beginning of my first post that I am originally from wyoming.  But prior to moving back a year ago I had lived in North Carolina for about 5years for school then work, and am happy to be back. Politically and government wise I can't that I noticed much difference. About the only differnce was alot more people and trees and warmer winters and hotter summers.

Alot of people who have moved to wyoming have done a decent amount of damage to the image of an out-of-stater.  As long as you come here with the right attitude and willing to respect those who give you respect there will be open arms and open minds.  I just hate the thoughts of people coming here to enjoy our freedoms but not willing to do anything to get into the fight and hang on to what we have.  I don't believe anyone on these forums with the type of mindset that is presented in general is my enemy on the contrary would love to see more people like those on here.  Rather than some of the yahoos that are nothing but rude, throw trash everywhere and don't give a damn about what goes on around them.  But this place is not immune to any of the problems that others are moving away from, and if your not willing to stand up against it and prevent it from happening here.  Then you will only be helping proliferate a system through this state as well.  And having the mindset that at least it isn't as bad here as where i came from is a dangerous idea of complacency.

[Paul Bonneau]

Just a few comments...

So yea right now things might be pretty rosy in wyoming, when they stop poking holes in the earth for resources if they haven't brought in any other long term jobs to keep roughnecks here expect a lot of other jobs to leave the state with them.

Actually things are not rosy at all in Wyoming, where liberty is concerned. The boom you are talking about is the very thing that is causing the loss of freedom. Government has more money than it knows what to do with, and that can never help freedom; and people who just follow the boom might not be the best for this state (although I want to say that I have no actual evidence of this, and anyway I'd rather have people who work on wells and mines than people in the financial "industry" and other yuppie-heavy occupations).

When the boom ends and the government money dries up and the spare people go somewhere else, is when liberty here will get a much needed reprieve. The folks left over will be the tougher, self-reliant ones, which is what we want.

And 3-4 grade schools where shut down due to the lack of students.

Funny, I usually celebrate when government schools shut down.

county commisoners decided to put a sign on the front entrance that said no concealed weapons of any kind where allowed in the building...

Actually, that is in the concealed carry statute, so the commissioners weren't doing anything wrong (other than enforcing an unconstitutional law). Sounds like a good reason not to get a permit, huh? A reasonable response, seems to me, would be to open carry in that building. You have to give some push-back...

All of this was done to increase the desirability of people moving to the area, and help increase property values, in large part it has failed for now but it does not seem we have seen the end of it.

That's government for you, always focused on increasing that income stream for their boondoggles. I know it's frustrating, but at least you have a fighting chance to shut this stuff down here. Not so elsewhere. Everything is relative.

Yea I'm listening, but I also read a post on how a few people on these forums are fed up with the way the government and refuse to vote.  Attitudes like that is what got people into the current situation they are trying to get away from.

If you think voting and political activism is a viable solution, then go for it. Personally, I've tried it, and found it a rigged game, with little return for a lot of effort. So many of us try other things. Like simply ignoring government, or pushing back when the bureaucrats get uppity, or flying under the radar, or writing letters to the editor exposing the corruption and power grabs. Hey, it all helps. People in government are usually more concerned with pulling in a paycheck than in pushing someone who maybe doesn't want to be pushed and who could (in the occasional example) go off the deep end if pushed too far. I think it is a bit unwise to carp about people not voting. You can't vote yourself freedom. Most times, freedom is won by ignoring the law.

In a place that has more bars than churches, sweetwater county made it illegal about 6months ago for anyone to smoke in bars and restaurants that are open to the public.

And whose fault is it that this bit of freedom is lost? The jerks passing the law, or the people for paying attention to it? Government depends on willing compliance from the peons. If they don't get it, their schemes don't work. People need to get a pair and start pushing back.

[freedomunrestricted]

Yes I agree that people should be more active in all aspects of the laws and actions the governments try to oppose onto us.  But in my personal experience most who don't take the time to vote also don't take the time to go to any public hearings or county commisoner meetings.  And rarely do much more than complain to their friends and neighbors if they do not agree with.  I guess I was trying to illustrate and encourage people to have more faith in the system here. And try and make sure they take an active roll and not sit on the sidelines watching wyoming end up like so many other places.  I can almost guarantee those who are trying to take away personal liberties are showing up to vote, and I try to take an active roll encouraging others to do the same.  No one has ever voted themselves freedom, but a lot of people sure have voted it away.

I have to say I agree with pretty much everything you had to say in response to my post paul, especially the part about those who follow the boom aren't the best for the state.  For the most part they don't care anything about wyoming, amount of trash everywhere has increased ten fold, instances of poached wildlife are becoming alot more common. And all the county commisioners are worried about is trying to clean and dress the place up trying to make it look more appealing to the more liberal leaning city folk.

[biathlon]

Don't worry guys. It'll all be moot probably real soon.

[Brandy]

Don't worry guys. It'll all be moot probably real soon.

This almost made me laugh.  But unfortunately what will happen is inevitable.  Too many people asleep behind the television.

Brandy

[freedomunrestricted]

Don't worry guys. It'll all be moot probably real soon.

And thats part of the reason I moved back to wyo in the first place

[JohnKOTR]

I am not going to argue that Wyoming has a lot of benefits, but the simple fact of the matter is that moving to Wyoming isn't going to address the key issues threatening this nation. Of course, I know that isn't the objective of the program, but...

We're still going to have contend with the fact that a few big corporations are coming to dominate the entire nation's food supply with the support of the federal government. We have to contend with a federal government dominated by an oligarchy of two parties. We have to contend with increasing domestic surveillance in the name of terrorism, but lack of border security that would prevent actual terrorists from transporting themselves and even weapons of mass destruction into the country. We have to contend with diminishing resources, including petroleum, water, and other things due to our exploding population and quality of life. We still have to contend with generation after generation of retard Americans whose only manner of choosing a candidate to vote for is whether or not they'd like to have a beer with the guy or who want to have voted for the first black president.

Moving to Wyoming isn't going to change any of that, but you guys do have an opportunity. You've got to elect one of your own to positions into the state legislature and other positions. Get Wyoming to resist government encroachments on states' rights. Get your people elected as US Congressman and US Senator. Get the right people into the Federal Government and change things.

Moving to Wyoming is a step up, in freedom, but it can only last so long. I hope that you guys are doing what you can to address these issues and change the political scene and not just riding the last wave of freedom that might ever cross this once great nation.

[georgedonnelly]

John, have you read Boston's book "Molon Labe"? If not, please do, as it essentially is a plan that will move Wyoming in a direction that resolves many if not all of these issues.

It's available on Amazon.